Immigration/Border Policies (Arizona Bill)

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2010, 11:39:22 AM »
So I heard the other day something the President said.  Here's the quote: "Our failure to act responsibly at the federal level will only open the door to irresponsibility by others," Obama said. "That includes, for example, the recent efforts in Arizona, which threatened to undermine basic notions of fairness that we cherish as Americans.

It actually hit me today when I heard it again on the radio.  I actually yelled at the radio.  What part of illegal immigrant does he not understand?  Apparently the illegal part.  Because according to him as long as they are on this soil they are Americans...or something.  What part of this new law is going to effect actual Americans?  Last I checked everyone needed to have some form of ID on them regardless if you drive or not.  How does this undermine the basic notions of fairness?  A cop asks you for ID...you show him.  Sounds pretty basic to me.  I also heard on the radio, leftist groups and the ACLU, and pro-mexican whatever groups....are calling for economic sanctions of Arizona.   So I say to you all FES pals, if you haven't decided where to go on vacation this year, choose Arizona.  Lets go put some tourist money into that state for doing what is right and good for the nation. 

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Mykael

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2010, 11:44:53 AM »
So I heard the other day something the President said.  Here's the quote: "Our failure to act responsibly at the federal level will only open the door to irresponsibility by others," Obama said. "That includes, for example, the recent efforts in Arizona, which threatened to undermine basic notions of fairness that we cherish as Americans.

It actually hit me today when I heard it again on the radio.  I actually yelled at the radio.  What part of illegal immigrant does he not understand?  Apparently the illegal part.  Because according to him as long as they are on this soil they are Americans...or something.  What part of this new law is going to effect actual Americans?  Last I checked everyone needed to have some form of ID on them regardless if you drive or not.  How does this undermine the basic notions of fairness?  A cop asks you for ID...you show him.  Sounds pretty basic to me.  I also heard on the radio, leftist groups and the ACLU, and pro-mexican whatever groups....are calling for economic sanctions of Arizona.   So I say to you all FES pals, if you haven't decided where to go on vacation this year, choose Arizona.  Lets go put some tourist money into that state for doing what is right and good for the nation.  
No-one wants illegal immigrants. What Obama and many others are so worried about is that the law creates a situation wherein an individual is guilty until proven innocent. Also, the law would require birth certificate and passport as proof (Drivers license or state ID will be insufficient, see the link I posted earlier). Do you carry your birth certificate and passport with you at all times?
« Last Edit: April 26, 2010, 11:49:12 AM by Myjafjallajokul »

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Mykael

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2010, 11:48:23 AM »
Oh, you mean they've done something like this before? How did it work out?

I resent being called white... I am part American Indian, and that is how I identified myself on the census form.
Sorry. What I was getting at, though, is that you do not look Hispanic. You would not be a target of this law.


Now, if people commiting crimes are made to prove they are citizens... i have no problem with it.
Nor do I. If the police perform the citizenship check as part of a criminal investigation, that's only logical. What I'm worried about is people being pulled over upon only the officer's suspicion that they might be illegal (they look/are Hispanic), and being arrested and forced to prove their identity.

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #33 on: April 26, 2010, 01:03:58 PM »
So I heard the other day something the President said.  Here's the quote: "Our failure to act responsibly at the federal level will only open the door to irresponsibility by others," Obama said. "That includes, for example, the recent efforts in Arizona, which threatened to undermine basic notions of fairness that we cherish as Americans.

It actually hit me today when I heard it again on the radio.  I actually yelled at the radio.  What part of illegal immigrant does he not understand?  Apparently the illegal part.  Because according to him as long as they are on this soil they are Americans...or something.  What part of this new law is going to effect actual Americans?  Last I checked everyone needed to have some form of ID on them regardless if you drive or not.  How does this undermine the basic notions of fairness?  A cop asks you for ID...you show him.  Sounds pretty basic to me.  I also heard on the radio, leftist groups and the ACLU, and pro-mexican whatever groups....are calling for economic sanctions of Arizona.   So I say to you all FES pals, if you haven't decided where to go on vacation this year, choose Arizona.  Lets go put some tourist money into that state for doing what is right and good for the nation.  
No-one wants illegal immigrants. What Obama and many others are so worried about is that the law creates a situation wherein an individual is guilty until proven innocent. Also, the law would require birth certificate and passport as proof (Drivers license or state ID will be insufficient, see the link I posted earlier). Do you carry your birth certificate and passport with you at all times?


So if the law states you have to, how does that inconvenience you as an American?  I already have to carry 3 forms of ID.  Whats a couple more.

Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #34 on: April 26, 2010, 01:46:07 PM »
So I heard the other day something the President said.  Here's the quote: "Our failure to act responsibly at the federal level will only open the door to irresponsibility by others," Obama said. "That includes, for example, the recent efforts in Arizona, which threatened to undermine basic notions of fairness that we cherish as Americans.

It actually hit me today when I heard it again on the radio.  I actually yelled at the radio.  What part of illegal immigrant does he not understand?  Apparently the illegal part.  Because according to him as long as they are on this soil they are Americans...or something.  What part of this new law is going to effect actual Americans?  Last I checked everyone needed to have some form of ID on them regardless if you drive or not.  How does this undermine the basic notions of fairness?  A cop asks you for ID...you show him.  Sounds pretty basic to me.  I also heard on the radio, leftist groups and the ACLU, and pro-mexican whatever groups....are calling for economic sanctions of Arizona.   So I say to you all FES pals, if you haven't decided where to go on vacation this year, choose Arizona.  Lets go put some tourist money into that state for doing what is right and good for the nation. 
and i want to meet you all. we could have good times.
an vir

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Mykael

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #35 on: April 26, 2010, 02:10:42 PM »
So I heard the other day something the President said.  Here's the quote: "Our failure to act responsibly at the federal level will only open the door to irresponsibility by others," Obama said. "That includes, for example, the recent efforts in Arizona, which threatened to undermine basic notions of fairness that we cherish as Americans.

It actually hit me today when I heard it again on the radio.  I actually yelled at the radio.  What part of illegal immigrant does he not understand?  Apparently the illegal part.  Because according to him as long as they are on this soil they are Americans...or something.  What part of this new law is going to effect actual Americans?  Last I checked everyone needed to have some form of ID on them regardless if you drive or not.  How does this undermine the basic notions of fairness?  A cop asks you for ID...you show him.  Sounds pretty basic to me.  I also heard on the radio, leftist groups and the ACLU, and pro-mexican whatever groups....are calling for economic sanctions of Arizona.   So I say to you all FES pals, if you haven't decided where to go on vacation this year, choose Arizona.  Lets go put some tourist money into that state for doing what is right and good for the nation.  
No-one wants illegal immigrants. What Obama and many others are so worried about is that the law creates a situation wherein an individual is guilty until proven innocent. Also, the law would require birth certificate and passport as proof (Drivers license or state ID will be insufficient, see the link I posted earlier). Do you carry your birth certificate and passport with you at all times?


So if the law states you have to, how does that inconvenience you as an American?  I already have to carry 3 forms of ID.  Whats a couple more.
1.
<---- Canadian

2. Birth certificates and passports are especially sensitive and hard-to-replace documents, which is exactly why they are not carried around.

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #36 on: April 26, 2010, 05:29:45 PM »
1. <---- Canadian


Then don't worry about it.

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Sean

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #37 on: April 26, 2010, 05:33:49 PM »
1. <---- Canadian


Then don't worry about it.

Someone from another country can't have an opinion on the matter?
Quote from: sokarul
Better bring a better augment, something not so stupid.

Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #38 on: April 26, 2010, 05:34:09 PM »
maybe there should be some federally issued ID card that everyone can carry around. seems like it could be a simple solution.
an vir

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2010, 06:12:02 PM »
1. <---- Canadian


Then don't worry about it.

Someone from another country can't have an opinion on the matter?

Not unless he's planning on moving in.

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theonlydann

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #40 on: April 26, 2010, 06:34:26 PM »
I am pro-anti-illegals.

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #41 on: April 26, 2010, 08:21:15 PM »
Once again, it does not matter whether or not one believes the law will have a good outcome or bad, only whether it is constitutional or not.  This law is unconstitutional and un American.

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grogberries

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #42 on: April 26, 2010, 10:48:21 PM »
this is such a bad idea. I am guessing it will be knocked down by the supreme court if it passes.

Have you been following what the supreme court has been doing? I wouldn't put it past them if they didn't.
Think hard. Think Flat.

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Mykael

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #43 on: April 27, 2010, 02:11:08 AM »
1. <---- Canadian


Then don't worry about it.
I don't personally, I'm just amused at how easily you Americans can codify racial profiling into law.


I am pro-anti-illegals.
I think your guys' 4th Amendment is a pretty good idea.

« Last Edit: April 27, 2010, 02:15:34 AM by Myjafjallajokul »

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theonlydann

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #44 on: April 27, 2010, 03:17:29 AM »
Psh. We need a new amendment. Execute illegals. Classify em as terrorists. BOOM! blow em up.

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #45 on: April 27, 2010, 04:28:54 AM »
Once again, it does not matter whether or not one believes the law will have a good outcome or bad, only whether it is constitutional or not.  This law is unconstitutional and un American.

A law to remove immigrants that came into to America illegally is un-American.   Wow.

*facepalm*

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Pongo

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #46 on: April 27, 2010, 04:50:47 AM »
Lets just ferry all the immigrants into Canada.  Problem solved on all fronts. 

Vote Pongo -- 2012

Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #47 on: April 27, 2010, 05:23:21 AM »
I should be President.
Every man and woman over 18 must carry a federally issued ID card. Police are allowed to spot check you. If you do not have your card you will be given a convienient date (for both) where you turn up at the police station. Your details will be taken (off other forms of ID). If you do not show up/do not have your card...
*BLAM*
When I was 5 years old my mum always told me that happiness was the key to life.
When I went to school they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up.
I wrote down "happy."
They told me I didn't understand the assignment.

Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #48 on: April 27, 2010, 05:58:14 AM »
Okay, this is pretty much getting out of hand on the topic of 'racism'. Now, surely you must agree that although this is some racial profiling that the reason it IS, is because pretty much most of it is true. And its the only way to catch said illegals. If you have a better way to catch said immigrants besides SWAT raiding houses that they might be in (which has been done before or so I've read) please, tell Arizona a better way. Illegal Immigration IS becoming too much of a problem and there aren't many other ways to handle this.


This is the easiest way for everyone that I can see myself, sure it will cause trouble and people will call it racism.  But frankly people call Racism on the stupidest of things.

"I dont like Obama." "RACIST!"

"This Crips member has a gun to my head!" "RACIST!"

"This Mexican is sleeping on my lawn after he hopped the border fence!" "RACIST!"

There are so many Race Cards you can use to defend yourself that its absolutely ridiculous. And this is one of them, this isn't unconstitutional if people want to get into America do it like how everyone else had too and go through Ellis Island, I'm not even American, I'm mostly Italian (and a crap load of everything else mixed in.)  my family is originally from Italy and our line has been passed down since. I'm not racist I just believe that we DO have a illegal immigration problem and it NEEDS to be fixed.

That would be a simulation of the fabric of space-time bending back upon itself

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Mykael

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #49 on: April 27, 2010, 07:24:57 AM »
Once again, it does not matter whether or not one believes the law will have a good outcome or bad, only whether it is constitutional or not.  This law is unconstitutional and un American.

A law to remove immigrants that came into to America illegally is un-American.   Wow.

*facepalm*
What we've been trying to tell you for the last page or so is that what people are opposed to is not the "deport illegals" part. It's the "guilty until proven innocent, because you look Mexican part".

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #50 on: April 27, 2010, 10:54:53 AM »
All these years I thought U.S. citizens were required to carry ID and provide it when asked by a police officer... apparently we don't always have to do that.  If you are suspected of a crime, you have to identify yourself, but it isn't illegal to not have an ID card of some type (for citizens).

What is so bad about this Arizona law is that it makes all brown people suspected criminals.  It gives the police the right to demand identification based solely on the color of skin.  That is what makes the law unconstitutional.  I fully agree that something needs to be done to fix the illegal immigration problem, but I don't agree with this absurd law. 

This is interesting (haven't had the chance to read it all) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiibel_v._Sixth_Judicial_District_Court_of_Nevada

I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #51 on: April 27, 2010, 01:41:51 PM »
I don't get why a driver's license isn't good enough for ID.  If a cop runs their name through the computer, then shouldn't they already be listed as an alien, without them having to root around for their green card or passport?  As an immigrant myself, I can tell you right now that it would have been ridiculous for me to be carrying around immigration documents in my wallet.  As was said before, they're very important documents that you can't risk carrying around with you every day.

Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #52 on: April 27, 2010, 03:55:47 PM »
no one knows how the police are going to enforce it. they're supposed to be adding new training programs to avoid racial profiling. we'll have to wait and see how this all plays out.
an vir

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theonlydann

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #53 on: April 27, 2010, 04:15:16 PM »
We need to have a law like that in Michigan. F'n Canadians... always taking our jerbs.

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Mykael

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #54 on: April 27, 2010, 04:20:09 PM »
We need to have a law like that in Michigan. F'n Canadians... always taking our jerbs.

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grogberries

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #55 on: April 27, 2010, 06:19:00 PM »
I don't get why a driver's license isn't good enough for ID.  If a cop runs their name through the computer, then shouldn't they already be listed as an alien, without them having to root around for their green card or passport?  As an immigrant myself, I can tell you right now that it would have been ridiculous for me to be carrying around immigration documents in my wallet.  As was said before, they're very important documents that you can't risk carrying around with you every day.

Non-citizens can have driver's licenses.
Think hard. Think Flat.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #56 on: April 27, 2010, 06:54:37 PM »
I don't get why a driver's license isn't good enough for ID.  If a cop runs their name through the computer, then shouldn't they already be listed as an alien, without them having to root around for their green card or passport?  As an immigrant myself, I can tell you right now that it would have been ridiculous for me to be carrying around immigration documents in my wallet.  As was said before, they're very important documents that you can't risk carrying around with you every day.

Non-citizens can have driver's licenses.

Uh, I think you're misunderstanding my point.  I know non-citizens can have licenses, I had one myself.  What I'm wondering is why an alien can't show the police, if asked, their license or any other form of regular ID.  It's not reasonable to expect people to walk around carrying their green card or passport on them at all times, and a license should be just fine.  If they're in the database, then they're obviously legal.  If nothing pops up, then they're at least guilty of uttering and can be arrested, regardless of their immigration status.

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theonlydann

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #57 on: April 27, 2010, 07:16:24 PM »
I don't get why a driver's license isn't good enough for ID.  If a cop runs their name through the computer, then shouldn't they already be listed as an alien, without them having to root around for their green card or passport?  As an immigrant myself, I can tell you right now that it would have been ridiculous for me to be carrying around immigration documents in my wallet.  As was said before, they're very important documents that you can't risk carrying around with you every day.

Non-citizens can have driver's licenses.

Uh, I think you're misunderstanding my point.  I know non-citizens can have licenses, I had one myself.  What I'm wondering is why an alien can't show the police, if asked, their license or any other form of regular ID.  It's not reasonable to expect people to walk around carrying their green card or passport on them at all times, and a license should be just fine.  If they're in the database, then they're obviously legal.  If nothing pops up, then they're at least guilty of uttering and can be arrested, regardless of their immigration status.
If they can carry around a license, why can't they carry around a green card also? I think it is perfectly reasonable to ask someone to carry around something the exact same size as a license.

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Mykael

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #58 on: April 27, 2010, 07:22:38 PM »
I don't get why a driver's license isn't good enough for ID.  If a cop runs their name through the computer, then shouldn't they already be listed as an alien, without them having to root around for their green card or passport?  As an immigrant myself, I can tell you right now that it would have been ridiculous for me to be carrying around immigration documents in my wallet.  As was said before, they're very important documents that you can't risk carrying around with you every day.

Non-citizens can have driver's licenses.

Uh, I think you're misunderstanding my point.  I know non-citizens can have licenses, I had one myself.  What I'm wondering is why an alien can't show the police, if asked, their license or any other form of regular ID.  It's not reasonable to expect people to walk around carrying their green card or passport on them at all times, and a license should be just fine.  If they're in the database, then they're obviously legal.  If nothing pops up, then they're at least guilty of uttering and can be arrested, regardless of their immigration status.
If they can carry around a license, why can't they carry around a green card also? I think it is perfectly reasonable to ask someone to carry around something the exact same size as a license.
And how easy is it to get a new card if the one you have is lost?

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theonlydann

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #59 on: April 27, 2010, 07:24:32 PM »
I don't get why a driver's license isn't good enough for ID.  If a cop runs their name through the computer, then shouldn't they already be listed as an alien, without them having to root around for their green card or passport?  As an immigrant myself, I can tell you right now that it would have been ridiculous for me to be carrying around immigration documents in my wallet.  As was said before, they're very important documents that you can't risk carrying around with you every day.

Non-citizens can have driver's licenses.

Uh, I think you're misunderstanding my point.  I know non-citizens can have licenses, I had one myself.  What I'm wondering is why an alien can't show the police, if asked, their license or any other form of regular ID.  It's not reasonable to expect people to walk around carrying their green card or passport on them at all times, and a license should be just fine.  If they're in the database, then they're obviously legal.  If nothing pops up, then they're at least guilty of uttering and can be arrested, regardless of their immigration status.
If they can carry around a license, why can't they carry around a green card also? I think it is perfectly reasonable to ask someone to carry around something the exact same size as a license.
And how easy is it to get a new card if the one you have is lost?
How about you just dont lose it.

https://www.usimmigrationsupport.org/greencard-replacement.html

It cost like 290. ANd if anyone wants to bawwww that that costs to much... well... life isnt fair. Thats what you get for losing it, and if it gets stolen, well... life still isn't fair. Welcome to America ig you have a problem with it... go home.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2010, 07:28:13 PM by theonlydann »