Immigration/Border Policies (Arizona Bill)

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EireEngineer

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Re: Immigration/Border Policies (Arizona Bill)
« Reply #360 on: September 24, 2010, 07:43:51 PM »
Its cute that you think everything is a giant cabal.
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the precipitate.

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Gigamonsta

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Re: Immigration/Border Policies (Arizona Bill)
« Reply #361 on: September 24, 2010, 07:50:41 PM »
well well well what do we have here.

the NWO is USING the illegals. look at barrack obama: he's going to basically give them voting rights soon and all the illegals will definitely vote for him. why do you think he is standing against the border fence?! so he can get their votes and set himself up as a savior of mexican immigrants!!!!! he will be able ot win all subsequent elections!!

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Immigration/Border Policies (Arizona Bill)
« Reply #362 on: September 24, 2010, 08:26:21 PM »
It's quite clear that we aren't doing a well enough job with our current system. I'm not asking for a 100% arrest rate, but if there's too many illegal immigrants to the point they are causing the problems that many politicians are claiming, then we need a new system.

Yes, but the problem of "too many illegal immigrants" will not be solved by inviting more illegal immigrants.  And you haven't answered my point about security.  Do you deny that without any kind of regulation on who enters the country, there will be nothing to stop criminals, smugglers of contraband, and potentially terrorists into the country?

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Hardly. Illegal immigrants already have jobs: If they got legitimized and protected by laws, primarily regarding minimum wage, they would have enough money to buy goods beyond basic needs, and that would create jobs. The other immigrants would get the jobs, spend money, create more jobs, and we continue on an upward spiral.

I don't follow your logic here.  How exactly did you get from "buying more goods" to "create jobs"?

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Also, I fail to see how my "duty to society" of forcing people to work in dangerous, near-slavery conditions trumps basic morals.

You aren't forcing people to do anything.  They get up every morning and walk into work, knowing what they're being paid and what their job is.  And yet they continue to stay here.  They're free at any time to go back to their home country.

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I was speaking of protecting them from manipulating business man moreso, but protecting people from force is also important.

Force?

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Immigration/Border Policies (Arizona Bill)
« Reply #363 on: October 04, 2010, 03:44:34 PM »
In conclusion, I win.

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Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Immigration/Border Policies (Arizona Bill)
« Reply #364 on: October 04, 2010, 08:41:24 PM »
Very sorry, I must have checked this without responding, taking it off my reply list.

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Do you deny that without any kind of regulation on who enters the country, there will be nothing to stop criminals, smugglers of contraband, and potentially terrorists into the country?
I'm not saying that there should be no border; I'm saying that we should allow anyone to become a citizen without the dizzying amount of bureaucracy. There will still be stops and occasional searches for smugglers. If I implied otherwise, I apologize.

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I don't follow your logic here.  How exactly did you get from "buying more goods" to "create jobs"?
If people buy things, people must sell things. In order for people to sell things, things must be created. If more things are bought, we need more people to sell said things, and to make said things.

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You aren't forcing people to do anything.  They get up every morning and walk into work, knowing what they're being paid and what their job is.  And yet they continue to stay here.  They're free at any time to go back to their home country.
Their home country is even worse than the terrible conditions in the southern US. They're stuck between a rock and a hard place.


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Force?
Yes. One of the roles of the government is to protect people from force. Violence. Aggression. Assault. Attack.

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EireEngineer

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Re: Immigration/Border Policies (Arizona Bill)
« Reply #365 on: October 04, 2010, 10:00:26 PM »


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If people buy things, people must sell things. In order for people to sell things, things must be created. If more things are bought, we need more people to sell said things, and to make said things.
Ah, I do love how the economically ignorant always assume production, without looking at the factors that actually promote it.


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Their home country is even worse than the terrible conditions in the southern US. They're stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Without the checkvalve that is the US, that may just motivate them to make things better in their home country.


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Force?
Yes. One of the roles of the government is to protect people from force. Violence. Aggression. Assault. Attack.
Like the violence done by the illegals that kill thousands of people every year, the aggression of skirting the laws of a nation they purport to care about, and the assault on our economy via the underground business transactions they are engaging in?
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the precipitate.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Immigration/Border Policies (Arizona Bill)
« Reply #366 on: October 05, 2010, 03:52:39 AM »
I'm not saying that there should be no border; I'm saying that we should allow anyone to become a citizen without the dizzying amount of bureaucracy. There will still be stops and occasional searches for smugglers. If I implied otherwise, I apologize.

What makes you think that the bureaucracy is unnecessary or excessive?

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If people buy things, people must sell things. In order for people to sell things, things must be created. If more things are bought, we need more people to sell said things, and to make said things.

Well, okay, that's great for the people in sales and manual production.  What about everyone else, who will have to compete with a flood of immigrants for jobs?

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Their home country is even worse than the terrible conditions in the southern US. They're stuck between a rock and a hard place.

And that sucks for them and everything, but the first priority of America should be Americans.  Just like we aren't spending every dollar we have on feeding starving children in Africa, neither should we be compromising the economic interests of Americans in favor of helping foreigners.

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Yes. One of the roles of the government is to protect people from force. Violence. Aggression. Assault. Attack.

I get that, and I'm not saying that the government shouldn't enforce laws against slave labor or human trafficking.  I just don't see what that has to do with illegal immigration.

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Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Immigration/Border Policies (Arizona Bill)
« Reply #367 on: October 05, 2010, 11:16:01 AM »
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What makes you think that the bureaucracy is unnecessary or excessive?
The very fact that so many people are coming in illegally shows that there is a problem with the current immigration system.

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Well, okay, that's great for the people in sales and manual production.  What about everyone else, who will have to compete with a flood of immigrants for jobs?
First off, service and production jobs are...well, effectively all jobs. Second of all, they are already competing with immigrants, and losing because the immigrants can take lower wages. If you level the playing field by forcing the immigrants to be paid minimum wage, it removes the incentive to hire them over anyone else. Also, you have yet to show that this policy would actually increase the number of immigrants coming in.


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And that sucks for them and everything, but the first priority of America should be Americans.  Just like we aren't spending every dollar we have on feeding starving children in Africa, neither should we be compromising the economic interests of Americans in favor of helping foreigners.
First off, what makes American any right to live here over the immigrants? Luck of the draw? Our ancestors were more violent? Second, in what way would we be "compromising the economic interests of Americans"?

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Immigration/Border Policies (Arizona Bill)
« Reply #368 on: October 05, 2010, 01:27:35 PM »
The very fact that so many people are coming in illegally shows that there is a problem with the current immigration system.

I disagree.  I think it shows that there's a problem with the current quality of life in Mexico.  There really isn't any faster way to screen in immigrants than just stepping completely back and allowing everyone to just rush in, including the deadbeats and criminals.

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they are already competing with immigrants, and losing because the immigrants can take lower wages. If you level the playing field by forcing the immigrants to be paid minimum wage, it removes the incentive to hire them over anyone else.

That's not quite true.  Very few people here are actually losing jobs to illegal immigrants, as almost no reputable employer will hire an illegal immigrant, even if they work for less money.  It is, after all, illegal.  However, with a flood of legal immigrants with as much to gain as Americans, there will be considerably more competition for the legitimate jobs that most Americans search for.  True, there's no incentive for the immigrant to be hired over the American, but if he had never been legalized, the competition wouldn't be there in the first place.

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Also, you have yet to show that this policy would actually increase the number of immigrants coming in.

Look, I'll admit that you've made some good points, but this is not one of them.  You've said it yourself, life in Mexico is terrible.  They want to come to the United States.  They undertake a long and dangerous journey across the desert, often have to associate with and pay off coyotes and other dangerous criminals, and run the strong risk that they will be caught and sent back.  Furthermore, once inside the country, life is only marginally better.  They are exploited and discriminated against almost all the time, and live in constant fear that they will be caught and sent back.  Now, if we remove all those negative elements, they have a safe journey, a good job, live like a full American with endless possibilities...do you honestly think that the immigration rate will do anything but skyrocket?

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First off, what makes American any right to live here over the immigrants? Luck of the draw?

Yes, that is exactly it.  It's the same reason that you have the right to eat hot meals every day while people starve in Africa.  It's not perfect, but life isn't perfect.

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Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Immigration/Border Policies (Arizona Bill)
« Reply #369 on: October 05, 2010, 07:43:09 PM »
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I disagree.  I think it shows that there's a problem with the current quality of life in Mexico.  There really isn't any faster way to screen in immigrants than just stepping completely back and allowing everyone to just rush in, including the deadbeats and criminals.
The criminals are getting in anyway, and can still commit crimes despite our current attempt at keeping them out. Also, it's almost impossible to differentiate from a "dead beat" and a legitimate person seeking to better themselves.

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That's not quite true.  Very few people here are actually losing jobs to illegal immigrants, as almost no reputable employer will hire an illegal immigrant, even if they work for less money.  It is, after all, illegal.  However, with a flood of legal immigrants with as much to gain as Americans, there will be considerably more competition for the legitimate jobs that most Americans search for.
The bold is completely, and utterly, false. The only reason this is an issue, according to the right, is because they are taking jobs for cheaper. Also, hundred of companies, including Wal-Mart, have been fined or have been sent a C&D over illegal immigration.

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True, there's no incentive for the immigrant to be hired over the American, but if he had never been legalized, the competition wouldn't be there in the first place
That would be true, assuming that our current policy actually was keeping immigrants out. In reality, it's not, and the competition is there.

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...do you honestly think that the immigration rate will do anything but skyrocket?
To be honest, this is a possibility. I don't, however, think it's an absolute certainty. I'll use drug use in Portugal as an example: Using impure and poorly made illegal street drugs, with huge difficulties of acquiring them and financial costs, people still used it. When Portugal legalized it, drug use did not skyrocket, and, for the most part, slightly dropped. Now, I'm not claiming the same thing will happen, but I'm saying that the we should find more historical evidence before deciding if this point is valid.

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Yes, that is exactly it.  It's the same reason that you have the right to eat hot meals every day while people starve in Africa.  It's not perfect, but life isn't perfect.
And this is where it appears we have a fundamental difference between us. I would like to share the wealth of America, and you'd like to accept the current system.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Immigration/Border Policies (Arizona Bill)
« Reply #370 on: October 06, 2010, 08:05:25 AM »
The criminals are getting in anyway, and can still commit crimes despite our current attempt at keeping them out.

So what?  People still commit crimes in spite of us having a police force.  Does this mean that we should disband police?

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Also, it's almost impossible to differentiate from a "dead beat" and a legitimate person seeking to better themselves.

That's why we have extensive investigation into potential immigrants; to find out what their plans will be in this country and how they will contribute to society.

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The bold is completely, and utterly, false. The only reason this is an issue, according to the right, is because they are taking jobs for cheaper. Also, hundred of companies, including Wal-Mart, have been fined or have been sent a C&D over illegal immigration.

Lol, Wal-Mart.  That's why I said "reputable employer".  Also, those punishments you mentioned have probably sent a strong deterrent to companies.

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To be honest, this is a possibility. I don't, however, think it's an absolute certainty. I'll use drug use in Portugal as an example: Using impure and poorly made illegal street drugs, with huge difficulties of acquiring them and financial costs, people still used it. When Portugal legalized it, drug use did not skyrocket, and, for the most part, slightly dropped. Now, I'm not claiming the same thing will happen, but I'm saying that the we should find more historical evidence before deciding if this point is valid.

You've made that analogy before, and it is still ridiculous.  Drug use is completely different, because unlike illegal immigration, there is no one specific reason that people use drugs, nor is there any clear, tangible benefit to it.  Relatively few people are going to make the decision to start using drugs for the sole reason that they're legal.  However, there are no doubt quite a few people who will make the decision not to bother using drugs, because by being legal, they no longer have the societal stigma of being "cool" or "rebellious".

Illegal immigration, on the other hand, has a clear benefit to it - finding a life in America, which is considerably better than a life in Mexico.  It's as simple as that.  It has nothing to do with seeming cool or rebellious by defying laws - they just want a better life.

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And this is where it appears we have a fundamental difference between us. I would like to share the wealth of America, and you'd like to accept the current system.

I am all for sharing the wealth of America, but in a realistic way.  Jobs are not the only concern.  There is also food, housing, capacity of schools, just off the top of my head.  I don't know how to begin explaining this, because I thought it was simply common sense.  We can't just allow an unlimited number of people to enter the country all at once and not expect any negative consequences.

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Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Immigration/Border Policies (Arizona Bill)
« Reply #371 on: October 06, 2010, 06:33:30 PM »
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So what?  People still commit crimes in spite of us having a police force.  Does this mean that we should disband police?
No, but it does mean we should explore other options that are more effective, as I believe this option is.

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That's why we have extensive investigation into potential immigrants; to find out what their plans will be in this country and how they will contribute to society.
I'm legitimately curious as to what the extensive investigation entails. Can I get a source on this?

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Lol, Wal-Mart.  That's why I said "reputable employer".  Also, those punishments you mentioned have probably sent a strong deterrent to companies.
Actually, no. The federal government has, in the last two or three years, dropped the number of letters and warning it has sent out dramatically.

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You've made that analogy before, and it is still ridiculous.  Drug use is completely different, because unlike illegal immigration, there is no one specific reason that people use drugs, nor is there any clear, tangible benefit to it.  Relatively few people are going to make the decision to start using drugs for the sole reason that they're legal.  However, there are no doubt quite a few people who will make the decision not to bother using drugs, because by being legal, they no longer have the societal stigma of being "cool" or "rebellious".

Illegal immigration, on the other hand, has a clear benefit to it - finding a life in America, which is considerably better than a life in Mexico.  It's as simple as that.  It has nothing to do with seeming cool or rebellious by defying laws - they just want a better life.
People do not do drugs simply because they're illegal. It's a factor, but not the sole reason. I know a large number of people who have said they would smoke marijuana if it was legal, but do not currently because it's illegal.

I'll accept there is a potential jump in immigration, but it's foolish to state it as fact until we find a good historical analogy.

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I am all for sharing the wealth of America, but in a realistic way.  Jobs are not the only concern.  There is also food, housing, capacity of schools, just off the top of my head.  I don't know how to begin explaining this, because I thought it was simply common sense.  We can't just allow an unlimited number of people to enter the country all at once and not expect any negative consequences.
Unlimited? Are you aware that Mexico does not have an infinite population? I do agree that there could be a shock to infrastructure from a sudden increase in immigration, and the US should set aside some money to build-up infrastructure prior to implementing this policy. (Hypothetically, of course.) This would have the side-effect of creating more jobs.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Immigration/Border Policies (Arizona Bill)
« Reply #372 on: October 13, 2010, 01:16:10 PM »
Behold:

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.f6da51a2342135be7e9d7a10e0dc91a0/?vgnextoid=fa7e539dc4bed010VgnVCM1000000ecd190aRCRD&vgnextchannel=fa7e539dc4bed010VgnVCM1000000ecd190aRCRD&CH=act

That's the law.  Basically, it lists who is eligible or ineligible to immigrate to this country, the amount of people who can immigrate from a certain country, blah blah blah.

As for the rest of your arguments, though, I'm not really sure what you're arguing here.  What part of our current immigration policy do you disagree with?

Re: Immigration/Border Policies (Arizona Bill)
« Reply #373 on: October 13, 2010, 02:53:31 PM »
I support it the bill, should be enforced everywhere. Also need more Border Patrol Agents. It's sad really how much crime is coming from Mexico, as well as drugs.

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Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Immigration/Border Policies (Arizona Bill)
« Reply #374 on: October 15, 2010, 03:23:35 PM »
Behold:

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.f6da51a2342135be7e9d7a10e0dc91a0/?vgnextoid=fa7e539dc4bed010VgnVCM1000000ecd190aRCRD&vgnextchannel=fa7e539dc4bed010VgnVCM1000000ecd190aRCRD&CH=act

That's the law.  Basically, it lists who is eligible or ineligible to immigrate to this country, the amount of people who can immigrate from a certain country, blah blah blah.
Care to quote a smaller portion than the entire fucking law?

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As for the rest of your arguments, though, I'm not really sure what you're arguing here.  What part of our current immigration policy do you disagree with?
The restriction of immigration of lawful people with a complete lack of moral basis.

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sillyrob

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Re: Immigration/Border Policies (Arizona Bill)
« Reply #375 on: October 18, 2010, 07:20:58 AM »
Arizona is home to 300,000 unemployed citizens. I don't see the problem with removing 500,000+ illegals and giving their jobs away to people who belong here.

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Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Immigration/Border Policies (Arizona Bill)
« Reply #376 on: October 18, 2010, 08:55:17 PM »
Arizona is home to 300,000 unemployed citizens. I don't see the problem with removing 500,000+ illegals and giving their jobs away to people who belong here.
Please give the moral basis that the current residents have any more right to the land,and the jobs within, than the Mexican immigrants do.

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Mykael

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Re: Immigration/Border Policies (Arizona Bill)
« Reply #377 on: October 18, 2010, 09:56:11 PM »
Arizona is home to 300,000 unemployed citizens. I don't see the problem with removing 500,000+ illegals and giving their jobs away to people who belong here.
You'd give the jobs to Native Americans?

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EireEngineer

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Re: Immigration/Border Policies (Arizona Bill)
« Reply #378 on: October 25, 2010, 03:50:28 AM »
Arizona is home to 300,000 unemployed citizens. I don't see the problem with removing 500,000+ illegals and giving their jobs away to people who belong here.
Please give the moral basis that the current residents have any more right to the land,and the jobs within, than the Mexican immigrants do.
Its fairly simple. The ancestors of those born here have earned that right for their descendants through their toil in the endeavor of improving this nation. To think otherwise negates the entire concept of having a nation, or a society in general. Societies rise and fall in relation to the efforts, talents, and abilities of their people,their ability to defend them,  and reap the rewards or harsh consequences of them accordingly. To say that the descendants of others have just as much right to the benefits of this nation establishes a slippery slope.
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the precipitate.

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Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Immigration/Border Policies (Arizona Bill)
« Reply #379 on: October 25, 2010, 06:15:26 PM »
Arizona is home to 300,000 unemployed citizens. I don't see the problem with removing 500,000+ illegals and giving their jobs away to people who belong here.
Please give the moral basis that the current residents have any more right to the land,and the jobs within, than the Mexican immigrants do.
Its fairly simple. The ancestors of those born here have earned that right for their descendants through their toil in the endeavor of improving this nation. To think otherwise negates the entire concept of having a nation, or a society in general. Societies rise and fall in relation to the efforts, talents, and abilities of their people,their ability to defend them,  and reap the rewards or harsh consequences of them accordingly. To say that the descendants of others have just as much right to the benefits of this nation establishes a slippery slope.
Ah, so do you advocate removing all the Europeans, and returning the land to the Native Americans? Or do you believe that white people have the right to be here because Europeans were more willing to kill and poison other people?

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berny_74

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Re: Immigration/Border Policies (Arizona Bill)
« Reply #380 on: October 25, 2010, 07:17:40 PM »
Ah, so do you advocate removing all the Europeans, and returning the land to the Native Americans? Or do you believe that white people have the right to be here because Europeans were more willing to kill and poison other people?

More willing or more able?
And how many generations should it take for one be considered "native"?

Berny
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To be fair, sometimes what FE'ers say makes so little sense that it's hard to come up with a rebuttal.
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Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Immigration/Border Policies (Arizona Bill)
« Reply #381 on: October 25, 2010, 07:21:34 PM »
More willing. Please study American history, the Europeans have always been more violent than the Native Americans. The Native Americans could have easily stopped the early European settlers, but the godless heathens, for the most part, preferred to help the different people rather than prosecute them, apparently.

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EireEngineer

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Re: Immigration/Border Policies (Arizona Bill)
« Reply #382 on: October 29, 2010, 05:00:28 PM »
Arizona is home to 300,000 unemployed citizens. I don't see the problem with removing 500,000+ illegals and giving their jobs away to people who belong here.
Please give the moral basis that the current residents have any more right to the land,and the jobs within, than the Mexican immigrants do.
Its fairly simple. The ancestors of those born here have earned that right for their descendants through their toil in the endeavor of improving this nation. To think otherwise negates the entire concept of having a nation, or a society in general. Societies rise and fall in relation to the efforts, talents, and abilities of their people,their ability to defend them,  and reap the rewards or harsh consequences of them accordingly. To say that the descendants of others have just as much right to the benefits of this nation establishes a slippery slope.
Ah, so do you advocate removing all the Europeans, and returning the land to the Native Americans? Or do you believe that white people have the right to be here because Europeans were more willing to kill and poison other people?
To the victor go the spoils.  It would be one thing if the Mexicans wanted to try an armed reconquista. That, at least, I could respect.   Every population on the planet has been pushed off their ancestral land by some other group, some just whine about it more than others. And your assertion that Native Americans were somehow peaceful is patently false.  Most tribes warred with each other routinely, with rape, pillage, and slavery being just as common among them as the Europeans.  In fact, when the Spaniards confronted the Inca in Cajamarca, the Inca brought a force of 7000.  Sadly, he wasnt smart enough to arm them, in his hubris figuring it would raise his status to defeat these "gods" unarmed.

What we are talking about is a policy that allows forign nationals to take advantage of social services without paying into the system at all.  Their ancestors never paid in, their children are unlikely to contribute much, and while they are here they consume social services at a far higher rate than citizens do precisely because they are breaking the law.
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the precipitate.

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Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Immigration/Border Policies (Arizona Bill)
« Reply #383 on: October 29, 2010, 05:03:19 PM »
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What we are talking about is a policy that allows forign nationals to take advantage of social services without paying into the system at all.  Their ancestors never paid in, their children are unlikely to contribute much, and while they are here they consume social services at a far higher rate than citizens do precisely because they are breaking the law.
Do you realize I am proposing making their work legitimate, allowing them to be taxed and contribute? Also, "paying into the system" would only make sense if we had a surplus.

Re: Immigration/Border Policies (Arizona Bill)
« Reply #384 on: November 25, 2010, 07:52:19 PM »
Hubris is ruining this country. It makes me sick to see this racism. What makes you better then the mexicans?

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Immigration/Border Policies (Arizona Bill)
« Reply #385 on: November 25, 2010, 08:28:16 PM »
Hubris is ruining this country. It makes me sick to see this racism. What makes you better then the mexicans?

There is nothing in the law that is explicitly racist.  The law requires "reasonable suspicion" to demand proof of citizenship.  Racial profiling has frequently been held to be illegal by the courts.  There are some good reasons to oppose this law, but to simply cry out the generic "That's racist!" is not one of them.

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sillyrob

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Re: Immigration/Border Policies (Arizona Bill)
« Reply #386 on: November 26, 2010, 04:38:31 AM »
Hubris is ruining this country. It makes me sick to see this racism. What makes you better then the mexicans?
Where is the racism in this bill? Have you read it, or have you allowed yourself to succumb to the liberal media like every other douchebag in this thread opposed to it? Read it, then come back to me.

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Benocrates

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Re: Immigration/Border Policies (Arizona Bill)
« Reply #387 on: November 29, 2010, 01:34:42 PM »
Hubris is ruining this country. It makes me sick to see this racism. What makes you better then the mexicans?
Where is the racism in this bill? Have you read it, or have you allowed yourself to succumb to the liberal media like every other douchebag in this thread opposed to it? Read it, then come back to me.

Assuming the phrase 'reasonable suspicion' is in the bill, the de facto room for racism is in the word 'reasonable'. As has been highlighted, reasonably will have to be decided in the courts.
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sillyrob

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Re: Immigration/Border Policies (Arizona Bill)
« Reply #388 on: November 30, 2010, 01:53:23 AM »
Hubris is ruining this country. It makes me sick to see this racism. What makes you better then the mexicans?
Where is the racism in this bill? Have you read it, or have you allowed yourself to succumb to the liberal media like every other douchebag in this thread opposed to it? Read it, then come back to me.

Assuming the phrase 'reasonable suspicion' is in the bill, the de facto room for racism is in the word 'reasonable'. As has been highlighted, reasonably will have to be decided in the courts.
Assuming you haven't read the damn bill I'm going to ignore this comment. If you had you'd understand that the person has to have first broken the law. So, if Pedro is speeding and a cop pulls him over, and Pedro cannot show any proof of his legal status, then why is that racist?

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Benocrates

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Re: Immigration/Border Policies (Arizona Bill)
« Reply #389 on: November 30, 2010, 08:37:51 AM »
Hubris is ruining this country. It makes me sick to see this racism. What makes you better then the mexicans?
Where is the racism in this bill? Have you read it, or have you allowed yourself to succumb to the liberal media like every other douchebag in this thread opposed to it? Read it, then come back to me.

Assuming the phrase 'reasonable suspicion' is in the bill, the de facto room for racism is in the word 'reasonable'. As has been highlighted, reasonably will have to be decided in the courts.
Assuming you haven't read the damn bill I'm going to ignore this comment. If you had you'd understand that the person has to have first broken the law. So, if Pedro is speeding and a cop pulls him over, and Pedro cannot show any proof of his legal status, then why is that racist?

First off, your post is rather contradictory because it seems like you really didn't ignore the comment. But that's besides the point. I thought I made it clear that I haven't read the bill, and I was assuming something in a way that left itself open to correction.

Second, you still haven`t addressed the issue of reasonable suspicion. Well, if you have then you have defined reasonable suspicion as breaking any law. This would presumably include jaywalking, failing to come to a complete stop at a stop sign, etc. I don`t see how this kind of activity can make you a reasonable suspect for immigration violation other than happening to be Hispanic (e.g. Pedro).
Quote from: President Barack Obama
Pot had helped
Get the fuck over it.