Questions about The Conspiracy

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Questions about The Conspiracy
« on: April 15, 2010, 01:21:12 AM »
Could someone answer a few questions on The Conspiracy for me?

Presumably, at some point in the past (say, the 18th century) the leading astronomers and philosophers believed in a spheroidal Earth, together with a spheroidal Sun and Moon, with the Earth orbiting the Sun, and the Moon orbiting the Earth.

Is that right?


Then, more recently, it was discovered that the Earth was flat, and that the Sun and Moon are flat discs suspended above the Earth.

Who made this discovery, and when did it occur?

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2fst4u

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Re: Questions about The Conspiracy
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2010, 01:26:25 AM »
It was believed to be flat before it was believed to be round, then those who thought it was round were mistaken while the conspiracy continued to make people believe it was round as it was popular belief. If the conspiracy had changed it's stance on the earth shape, people would have realised they were lying as they have already committed to lying about moon landings and satellite launches, which aren't possible on a flat earth.

[/FEer]

I don't belive in this, but it's the answer you're looking for in terms of a Flat Earth.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2010, 01:28:36 AM by 2fst4u »

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Pongo

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Re: Questions about The Conspiracy
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2010, 01:38:26 AM »
The earth was known to be flat since before the beginning of recorded history.  It wasn't until later that people like Copernicus suggested a heliocentric solar system (not to mention various Greeks and Roman's before him).  Not until around the 18th century did people started rewriting history and portraying them as 'freethinkers' or 'heroes'.  This is clearly nothing more then people trying to push an anti-Roman agenda.  I'm not trying to get religious, but you have to understand that Rome was a huge economical power with influence in every industrial nation.  To attack the seat in Rome, one would have to attack the very history it was built on.

As nations began to silently fight the oppressive power of the papacy so that they may flourish under a banner of free-trade out of the way of religious persecution, the conspiracy was born.  Nations had to collaborate with cover-ups and lies.  They couldn't very well let these facts escape after just defaming Rome (and thus gaining more power) for it's 'lies'.  

From here the conspiracy snowballed into that multibillion dollar cover-up that it is today.  From guards posted in various military bases on the 'ice' wall yet being told they are on the front lies of a war zone to selling GPS systems that read information from towers and output your location as if you were on globe.

I hope this has cleared some things up for you.

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flyingmonkey

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Re: Questions about The Conspiracy
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2010, 01:52:50 AM »
The earth was known to be flat since before the beginning of recorded history.  It wasn't until later that people like Copernicus suggested a heliocentric solar system (not to mention various Greeks and Roman's before him).  Not until around the 18th century did people started rewriting history and portraying them as 'freethinkers' or 'heroes'.  This is clearly nothing more then people trying to push an anti-Roman agenda.  I'm not trying to get religious, but you have to understand that Rome was a huge economical power with influence in every industrial nation.  To attack the seat in Rome, one would have to attack the very history it was built on.

As nations began to silently fight the oppressive power of the papacy so that they may flourish under a banner of free-trade out of the way of religious persecution, the conspiracy was born.  Nations had to collaborate with cover-ups and lies.  They couldn't very well let these facts escape after just defaming Rome (and thus gaining more power) for it's 'lies'.  

From here the conspiracy snowballed into that multibillion dollar cover-up that it is today.  From guards posted in various military bases on the 'ice' wall yet being told they are on the front lies of a war zone to selling GPS systems that read information from towers and output your location as if you were on globe.

I hope this has cleared some things up for you.

Any evidence of that?

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2fst4u

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Re: Questions about The Conspiracy
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2010, 02:07:41 AM »
GPS systems that read information from towers and output your location as if you were on globe.
This is where I have an issue. Can you explain how such a system would work with that accuracy of GPS systems today?

Re: Questions about The Conspiracy
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2010, 02:21:18 AM »
And where are these towers?

Do they broadcast satellite TV too?

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frozen_berries

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Re: Questions about The Conspiracy
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2010, 05:07:38 AM »
The earth was known to be flat since before the beginning of recorded history.  It wasn't until later that people like Copernicus suggested a heliocentric solar system (not to mention various Greeks and Roman's before him).  Not until around the 18th century did people started rewriting history and portraying them as 'freethinkers' or 'heroes'.  This is clearly nothing more then people trying to push an anti-Roman agenda.  I'm not trying to get religious, but you have to understand that Rome was a huge economical power with influence in every industrial nation.  To attack the seat in Rome, one would have to attack the very history it was built on.

As nations began to silently fight the oppressive power of the papacy so that they may flourish under a banner of free-trade out of the way of religious persecution, the conspiracy was born.  Nations had to collaborate with cover-ups and lies.  They couldn't very well let these facts escape after just defaming Rome (and thus gaining more power) for it's 'lies'.  

From here the conspiracy snowballed into that multibillion dollar cover-up that it is today.  From guards posted in various military bases on the 'ice' wall yet being told they are on the front lies of a war zone to selling GPS systems that read information from towers and output your location as if you were on globe.

I hope this has cleared some things up for you.

So every scientist that has been involved in this conspiracy is more motived by money rather than curiousity?

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fbkj

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Re: Questions about The Conspiracy
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2010, 06:40:32 AM »
From here the conspiracy snowballed into that multibillion dollar cover-up that it is today.  From guards posted in various military bases on the 'ice' wall yet being told they are on the front lies of a war zone to selling GPS systems that read information from towers and output your location as if you were on globe.

I hope this has cleared some things up for you.

oh yeah clears everything up

ps: how do you just write all of this as fact without feeling like a total asshat... no offence...

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Lorddave

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Re: Questions about The Conspiracy
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2010, 01:14:52 PM »
The earth was known to be flat since before the beginning of recorded history.  It wasn't until later that people like Copernicus suggested a heliocentric solar system (not to mention various Greeks and Roman's before him).  Not until around the 18th century did people started rewriting history and portraying them as 'freethinkers' or 'heroes'.  This is clearly nothing more then people trying to push an anti-Roman agenda.  I'm not trying to get religious, but you have to understand that Rome was a huge economical power with influence in every industrial nation.  To attack the seat in Rome, one would have to attack the very history it was built on.

As nations began to silently fight the oppressive power of the papacy so that they may flourish under a banner of free-trade out of the way of religious persecution, the conspiracy was born.  Nations had to collaborate with cover-ups and lies.  They couldn't very well let these facts escape after just defaming Rome (and thus gaining more power) for it's 'lies'.  

From here the conspiracy snowballed into that multibillion dollar cover-up that it is today.  From guards posted in various military bases on the 'ice' wall yet being told they are on the front lies of a war zone to selling GPS systems that read information from towers and output your location as if you were on globe.

I hope this has cleared some things up for you.


You do realize that Heliocentric and Geocentric both are Round Earth right?  The roundness of the Earth was well known by mariners as far back as the 14th century.  Columbus staked his life on the idea that you could travel around the whole planet to reach India instead of going all the way around Africa.  He would have succeed too, if it wasn't for the Americas being in the way.
The Roman Empire was long gone in the 18th century.  It died in the 5th century.  The Byzantine Empire endured for another millennium but that's about it.  So I fail to see how it was an anti-roman agenda.  Unless you mean anti-Church.  Then you have some accuracy.  But then again, it was the Church who lifted the Ban on the books and, in essence, accepted such knowledge as true.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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markjo

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Re: Questions about The Conspiracy
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2010, 03:56:34 PM »
You do realize that Heliocentric and Geocentric both are Round Earth right?  The roundness of the Earth was well known by mariners as far back as the 14th century. 

Actually, the ancient Greeks figured out that the earth is round over 2000 years ago.

Columbus staked his life on the idea that you could travel around the whole planet to reach India instead of going all the way around Africa.  He would have succeed too, if it wasn't for the Americas being in the way.

Everyone already knew that the earth was round in 1492.  Columbus just chopped a few thousand miles off of the accepted (and fairly accurate) circumference of the the earth in order to make the trip seem more practical.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Lorddave

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Re: Questions about The Conspiracy
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2010, 04:26:19 PM »
You do realize that Heliocentric and Geocentric both are Round Earth right?  The roundness of the Earth was well known by mariners as far back as the 14th century. 

Actually, the ancient Greeks figured out that the earth is round over 2000 years ago.

Columbus staked his life on the idea that you could travel around the whole planet to reach India instead of going all the way around Africa.  He would have succeed too, if it wasn't for the Americas being in the way.

Everyone already knew that the earth was round in 1492.  Columbus just chopped a few thousand miles off of the accepted (and fairly accurate) circumference of the the earth in order to make the trip seem more practical.

I know, but I don't think he can think that far back.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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markjo

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Re: Questions about The Conspiracy
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2010, 04:41:29 PM »
I know, but I don't think he can think that far back.

Perpetuating a myth is never a good strategy when trying to reveal the truth.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Lorddave

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Re: Questions about The Conspiracy
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2010, 04:42:36 PM »
I know, but I don't think he can think that far back.

Perpetuating a myth is never a good strategy in a scientific debate.

I don't think I was perpetuating a myth.  I just left out that they knew about it even further back.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Pongo

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Re: Questions about The Conspiracy
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2010, 02:56:40 AM »
GPS systems that read information from towers and output your location as if you were on globe.
This is where I have an issue. Can you explain how such a system would work with that accuracy of GPS systems today?

Yes.  Towers can triangulate a position using the same geometric calculations that alleged satellites could.  Where most people get confused is that you are receiving data based on your location on a flat earth, yet the GPS device does the calculations necessary to convert that into appearing like you are on a globe.  It's truly deplorable, and in some cases GPS devices go so far as to show you which 'satellites' are overhead.

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flyingmonkey

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Re: Questions about The Conspiracy
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2010, 02:58:22 AM »
Yes.  Towers can triangulate a position using the same geometric calculations that alleged satellites could.  Where most people get confused is that you are receiving data based on your location on a flat earth, yet the GPS device does the calculations necessary to convert that into appearing like you are on a globe.  It's truly deplorable, and in some cases GPS devices go so far as to show you which 'satellites' are overhead.


Except towers don't work when the user is in, say, a valley.

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2fst4u

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Re: Questions about The Conspiracy
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2010, 03:00:42 AM »
GPS systems that read information from towers and output your location as if you were on globe.
This is where I have an issue. Can you explain how such a system would work with that accuracy of GPS systems today?

Yes.  Towers can triangulate a position using the same geometric calculations that alleged satellites could.  Where most people get confused is that you are receiving data based on your location on a flat earth, yet the GPS device does the calculations necessary to convert that into appearing like you are on a globe.  It's truly deplorable, and in some cases GPS devices go so far as to show you which 'satellites' are overhead.
1. Satellites and cellphone towers use completely different parts of the electromagnetic spectrum

2. because of discrepancies, the accuracy of such a system would be inferior compared to GPS that we sue every day.

Fail harder.

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Pongo

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Re: Questions about The Conspiracy
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2010, 01:36:43 AM »
1. Satellites and cellphone towers use completely different parts of the electromagnetic spectrum

Can you demonstrate this first hand?  Or can you only link links and cite cites from those in control of the alleged satellites or other such unconfirmable sources?

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2fst4u

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Re: Questions about The Conspiracy
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2010, 01:51:21 AM »
1. Satellites and cellphone towers use completely different parts of the electromagnetic spectrum

Can you demonstrate this first hand?  Or can you only link links and cite cites from those in control of the alleged satellites or other such unconfirmable sources?
I certainly can. And so can you, if you'd bother to do anything to help yourself.

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markjo

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Re: Questions about The Conspiracy
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2010, 07:24:42 AM »
1. Satellites and cellphone towers use completely different parts of the electromagnetic spectrum

Can you demonstrate this first hand?  Or can you only link links and cite cites from those in control of the alleged satellites or other such unconfirmable sources?

Quote from: http://www.kowoma.de/en/gps/signals.htm
Each GPS satellite transmits two carrier signals in the microwave range, designated as L1 and L2 (frequencies located in the L-Band between 1000 and 2000 MHz).
Civil GPS receivers use the L1 frequency with 1575.42 MHz (wavelength 19.05 cm). The L1 frequency carries the navigation data as well as the SPS code (standard positioning code). The L2 frequency (1227.60 MHz, wavelength 24.45 cm) only carries the P code and is only used by receivers which are designed for PPS (precision positioning code). Mostly this can be found in military receivers.

Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellular_frequencies
Frequency bands used in the United States
Current / Planned Technologies   Band   Frequency (MHz)
SMR iDEN800806-824 and 851-869
AMPS, GSM, IS-95 (CDMA), IS-136 (D-AMPS), 3G    Cellular    824-849, 869-894, 896-901, 935-940
GSM, IS-95 (CDMA), IS-136 (D-AMPS), 3G    PCS    18501910 and 19301990
3G, 4G, MediaFlo, DVB-H    700 MHz    698-806
Unknown    1.4 GHz    13921395 and 14321435
3G, 4G    AWS    17101755 and 21102170
4G    BRS/EBS    25002690
As you can see, there is no overlap between GPS and cellular signals so all one has to do is point a signal analyzer at a cell tower and at a GPS satellite to verify the signal origin and structure.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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2fst4u

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Re: Questions about The Conspiracy
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2010, 01:16:38 PM »
Owned. I didn't want to look up figures because he just said they'd be unverified but whatevs.

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Pongo

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Re: Questions about The Conspiracy
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2010, 03:26:08 PM »
That's not a first hand demontration.  It looks to me like the results of a first handed google search.

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Lorddave

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Re: Questions about The Conspiracy
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2010, 04:06:39 PM »
That's not a first hand demontration.  It looks to me like the results of a first handed google search.

I wonder how many here have done first hand demonstrations?

What?  NO first hand Bendy Light demonstration?
No First Hand Celestial Gears demonstration?

Choose your arguments carefully for they apply to both.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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markjo

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Re: Questions about The Conspiracy
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2010, 04:07:13 PM »
That's not a first hand demontration.  It looks to me like the results of a first handed google search.

Perhaps you missed the part where I invited the skeptic to collect their own data.  After all, I might be a member of the conspiracy.

As you can see, there is no overlap between GPS and cellular signals so all one has to do is point a signal analyzer at a cell tower and at a GPS satellite to verify the signal origin and structure.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

Pongo

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Re: Questions about The Conspiracy
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2010, 12:08:27 AM »
That's not a first hand demontration.  It looks to me like the results of a first handed google search.

Perhaps you missed the part where I invited the skeptic to collect their own data.  After all, I might be a member of the conspiracy.

As you can see, there is no overlap between GPS and cellular signals so all one has to do is point a signal analyzer at a cell tower and at a GPS satellite to verify the signal origin and structure.

Clearly the signal analyzer also knows the supposed location of satellites and outputs what you want to see when pointing in the general direction of a 'known' satellite.

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flyingmonkey

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Re: Questions about The Conspiracy
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2010, 01:30:38 AM »
That's not a first hand demontration.  It looks to me like the results of a first handed google search.

Perhaps you missed the part where I invited the skeptic to collect their own data.  After all, I might be a member of the conspiracy.

As you can see, there is no overlap between GPS and cellular signals so all one has to do is point a signal analyzer at a cell tower and at a GPS satellite to verify the signal origin and structure.

Clearly the signal analyzer also knows the supposed location of satellites and outputs what you want to see when pointing in the general direction of a 'known' satellite.


I'd love to know how big this conspiracy is if even things like signal analyzers have to be modified to pick up dummy signals.