European Space Agency launches satellite to explore the effects of climate chang

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Lorddave

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Why would the conpricy be limited to public launchs?

Because it requires extending the amount of money paid, runs the risk of the IRS getting wind of those extra funds, ect...

It's not easy to conspire against anyone these days.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

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Vongeo

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They don't spend obscenely large sums of money devolping satellites, They spend small amounts of money building fake satellites, over charge for them, cook the books, send the Information cheaply, keep the conspricy going and move on with their day.

???  The customers often builds their own satellites and hire agencies to launch those satellites into very specific orbits (often geostationary).  Are you saying that every company that builds its own satellite is in on the conspiracy?
No they copy a life size model of the satellite, launch it up, take the old satellite, modify it to work on their ground station, and take a lunch break. Its fairly simple. Thats at least how I'd do it.
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Vongeo

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Why would the conpricy be limited to public launchs?

Because it requires extending the amount of money paid, runs the risk of the IRS getting wind of those extra funds, ect...

It's not easy to conspire against anyone these days.
They can run the Private launchs them selves, funded by guiliable venture capitalists. Guliable People once brought stock in a device that turned dogs and cats in to cattle, this is way more plausible.
Vongeo is a wanker, he wears a wanker hat; he always smells like urine and he thinks the Earth is flat.

No longer is this sentence is cut in half. Jekra!

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Lorddave

  • 18127
They don't spend obscenely large sums of money devolping satellites, They spend small amounts of money building fake satellites, over charge for them, cook the books, send the Information cheaply, keep the conspricy going and move on with their day.

???  The customers often builds their own satellites and hire agencies to launch those satellites into very specific orbits (often geostationary).  Are you saying that every company that builds its own satellite is in on the conspiracy?
No they copy a life size model of the satellite, launch it up, take the old satellite, modify it to work on their ground station, and take a lunch break. Its fairly simple. Thats at least how I'd do it.

Except it's impossible.
See, a satellite dish points to the sky.  It can only receive signal from whatever it's pointing at.  For it to receive signal from the sky, the signal from the ground would have to go into the sky then come back down from a very specific point and spread outwards in a cone shape.  
Now, while something similar does happen with some radio signals when they bounce off the ionosphere, it's not nearly precise enough or wide enough of an area nor does it have the range required to hit a large area from anymore than 50 miles away.  Plus it's more of a direct bounce than a single point of origin.


Why would the conpricy be limited to public launchs?

Because it requires extending the amount of money paid, runs the risk of the IRS getting wind of those extra funds, ect...

It's not easy to conspire against anyone these days.
They can run the Private launches them selves, funded by gullible venture capitalists. Gullible People once brought stock in a device that turned dogs and cats into cattle, this is way more plausible.

They'd still have to setup the company themselves, register it via the IRS, give names, pay taxes, ect...  And if the company was public (ie. sold stocks) then you've got an even bigger issue.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Vongeo

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They don't spend obscenely large sums of money devolping satellites, They spend small amounts of money building fake satellites, over charge for them, cook the books, send the Information cheaply, keep the conspricy going and move on with their day.

???  The customers often builds their own satellites and hire agencies to launch those satellites into very specific orbits (often geostationary).  Are you saying that every company that builds its own satellite is in on the conspiracy?
No they copy a life size model of the satellite, launch it up, take the old satellite, modify it to work on their ground station, and take a lunch break. Its fairly simple. Thats at least how I'd do it.

Except it's impossible.
See, a satellite dish points to the sky.  It can only receive signal from whatever it's pointing at.  For it to receive signal from the sky, the signal from the ground would have to go into the sky then come back down from a very specific point and spread outwards in a cone shape.  
Now, while something similar does happen with some radio signals when they bounce off the ionosphere, it's not nearly precise enough or wide enough of an area nor does it have the range required to hit a large area from anymore than 50 miles away.  Plus it's more of a direct bounce than a single point of origin.


Why would the conpricy be limited to public launchs?

Because it requires extending the amount of money paid, runs the risk of the IRS getting wind of those extra funds, ect...

It's not easy to conspire against anyone these days.
They can run the Private launches them selves, funded by gullible venture capitalists. Gullible People once brought stock in a device that turned dogs and cats into cattle, this is way more plausible.

They'd still have to setup the company themselves, register it via the IRS, give names, pay taxes, ect...  And if the company was public (ie. sold stocks) then you've got an even bigger issue.
I would divide this up, but I don't know how.

To the First part. The conpricy invented satelittes of course they would say that they only work in such a way with only these conditions, in space, on a round earth(well that last point isn't stated is just assumed by the masses.)
To the second part.
If you grease the right hands cooking the books to say anything you want is possible. Creative accounting. Plus you don't have to nessarly pay your financiers in cash you can pay them in none taxed material goods, women, fame, power, and for those simplier folks, not revealing the black mail you have on them.
Vongeo is a wanker, he wears a wanker hat; he always smells like urine and he thinks the Earth is flat.

No longer is this sentence is cut in half. Jekra!

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Username

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Satellites dishes also point at the stratosphere as well as any number of other things that could be used to bounce or transfer the signal. 

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Vongeo

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Thanks.
Vongeo is a wanker, he wears a wanker hat; he always smells like urine and he thinks the Earth is flat.

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2fst4u

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Satellites dishes also point at the stratosphere as well as any number of other things that could be used to bounce or transfer the signal.  
See GPS topic for why this has no relevance to the signals received from satellites or the ability to be in satellite range nearly everywhere.

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Lorddave

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And exactly how is any signal bounced off the stratosphere from a single point, expanding in a cone shaped field?
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Vongeo

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See GPS topic for why this has no relevance to the signals received from satellites or the ability to be in satellite range nearly everywhere.
Always promoting your GPS topic... We can keep the Info more divided and arguements more focused in this kind of format.

Anywho, there could be Ground stations working as satellites getting the info tranfered to them and transferring the information in the same way TV remotes work, You don't have to point your Television remote directly at the screen, just in the general area. Or If you don't like TV they could up the scale on remote controled car antenas( well not really increasing size, they'd do it the old japenese way, make it very tiny but ten times as powerful.)
Vongeo is a wanker, he wears a wanker hat; he always smells like urine and he thinks the Earth is flat.

No longer is this sentence is cut in half. Jekra!

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2fst4u

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Always promoting your GPS topic... We can keep the Info more divided and arguements more focused in this kind of format.

Anywho, there could be Ground stations working as satellites getting the info tranfered to them and transferring the information in the same way TV remotes work, You don't have to point your Television remote directly at the screen, just in the general area. Or If you don't like TV they could up the scale on remote controled car antenas( well not really increasing size, they'd do it the old japenese way, make it very tiny but ten times as powerful.)
Learn physics.


The quoted post is incorrect and invalid. Everyone, please disregard it.

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Vongeo

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Always promoting your GPS topic... We can keep the Info more divided and arguements more focused in this kind of format.

Anywho, there could be Ground stations working as satellites getting the info tranfered to them and transferring the information in the same way TV remotes work, You don't have to point your Television remote directly at the screen, just in the general area. Or If you don't like TV they could up the scale on remote controled car antenas( well not really increasing size, they'd do it the old japenese way, make it very tiny but ten times as powerful.)
Learn physics.


The quoted post is incorrect and invalid. Everyone, please disregard it.
It was a possiblity. Their was no Physics in it. You're just mad because I insulted your GPS baby.
Vongeo is a wanker, he wears a wanker hat; he always smells like urine and he thinks the Earth is flat.

No longer is this sentence is cut in half. Jekra!

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2fst4u

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Always promoting your GPS topic... We can keep the Info more divided and arguements more focused in this kind of format.

Anywho, there could be Ground stations working as satellites getting the info tranfered to them and transferring the information in the same way TV remotes work, You don't have to point your Television remote directly at the screen, just in the general area. Or If you don't like TV they could up the scale on remote controled car antenas( well not really increasing size, they'd do it the old japenese way, make it very tiny but ten times as powerful.)
Learn physics.


The quoted post is incorrect and invalid. Everyone, please disregard it.
It was a possiblity. Their was no Physics in it. You're just mad because I insulted your GPS baby.
I'm not mad. You just suck at giving alternative ways of doing things. Things don't tend to work when they... don't work.

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Vongeo

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I don't get what your trying to say to me.
Vongeo is a wanker, he wears a wanker hat; he always smells like urine and he thinks the Earth is flat.

No longer is this sentence is cut in half. Jekra!

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Lorddave

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See GPS topic for why this has no relevance to the signals received from satellites or the ability to be in satellite range nearly everywhere.
Always promoting your GPS topic... We can keep the Info more divided and arguements more focused in this kind of format.

Anywho, there could be Ground stations working as satellites getting the info tranfered to them and transferring the information in the same way TV remotes work, You don't have to point your Television remote directly at the screen, just in the general area. Or If you don't like TV they could up the scale on remote controled car antenas( well not really increasing size, they'd do it the old japenese way, make it very tiny but ten times as powerful.)

Won't work.
TV remotes work using an IR signal.  Those are very short range and are conic.  Hence why you can point them slightly away and they still work.  You can also bounce them off some walls.  This is also why they won't work.  Trees, buildings, ect.. would get in the way.

Car antennas work on radio waves.  Some TV stations send this out too, but since it requires line of sight, they are still blocked by objects like trees and mountains.  Drive through mountains and you'll find a signal hard to get on your radio.  TV signals require higher bandwidth and as such, higher frequencies. 

Also, Radio stations and Over the Air TV stations use omni-directional signals so any antenna could pick up the signal regardless of the position of the antenna.  While they could be mono-directional, they'd still have the same issue as all the other signals.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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2fst4u

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See GPS topic for why this has no relevance to the signals received from satellites or the ability to be in satellite range nearly everywhere.
Always promoting your GPS topic... We can keep the Info more divided and arguements more focused in this kind of format.

Anywho, there could be Ground stations working as satellites getting the info tranfered to them and transferring the information in the same way TV remotes work, You don't have to point your Television remote directly at the screen, just in the general area. Or If you don't like TV they could up the scale on remote controled car antenas( well not really increasing size, they'd do it the old japenese way, make it very tiny but ten times as powerful.)

Won't work.
TV remotes work using an IR signal.  Those are very short range and are conic.  Hence why you can point them slightly away and they still work.  You can also bounce them off some walls.  This is also why they won't work.  Trees, buildings, ect.. would get in the way.

Car antennas work on radio waves.  Some TV stations send this out too, but since it requires line of sight, they are still blocked by objects like trees and mountains.  Drive through mountains and you'll find a signal hard to get on your radio.  TV signals require higher bandwidth and as such, higher frequencies. 

Also, Radio stations and Over the Air TV stations use omni-directional signals so any antenna could pick up the signal regardless of the position of the antenna.  While they could be mono-directional, they'd still have the same issue as all the other signals.
I said "Disregard" for a reason...

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Vongeo

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They could have a device to do what satellites are said to do and they just don't tell anyone.
Vongeo is a wanker, he wears a wanker hat; he always smells like urine and he thinks the Earth is flat.

No longer is this sentence is cut in half. Jekra!

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2fst4u

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They could have a device to do what satellites are said to do and they just don't tell anyone.
NO THEY CAN'T.

FFS. learn how they work before you go throwing around comments like "They could just do this or this". You CAN'T emulate satellites.

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Vongeo

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At one point in time they couldn't emmulate candles.
Vongeo is a wanker, he wears a wanker hat; he always smells like urine and he thinks the Earth is flat.

No longer is this sentence is cut in half. Jekra!

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2fst4u

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At one point in time they couldn't emmulate candles.
That was before they fully understood the physics involved in doing so. No other technology exists that allows signals to be sent in straight (They MUST be straight) lines to every point on earth at any given time.

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Vongeo

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What about a shiton of wires?
Or a shiton of microradio towers cleverly placed to avoid obstacles.

Consider this, If the conpricy exists they invented satellite signal technology. Now if they wanted to people to beleive in a round earth they would make this technology say that we need these exact conditions at these exact points to work. So, Why wouldn't they say just that? Plus the promotion of the existence of satellites just gives them another venue for making profits.
Vongeo is a wanker, he wears a wanker hat; he always smells like urine and he thinks the Earth is flat.

No longer is this sentence is cut in half. Jekra!

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Catchpa

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They could have a device to do what satellites are said to do and they just don't tell anyone.

You can always fall back on that argument, and we'd have no way of explaining to you "No, just not possible".. IT'S NOT VALID. It assumes the impossible.
The conspiracy do train attack-birds

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Vongeo

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They could have a device to do what satellites are said to do and they just don't tell anyone.

You can always fall back on that argument, and we'd have no way of explaining to you "No, just not possible".. IT'S NOT VALID. It assumes the impossible.
Not possible, All THE WAY TO THE BANK!
Sorry for that, I just wanted to use the phrase all the way to the bank.

I'm not a big science FEer otherwise I could give you a better answer.
Vongeo is a wanker, he wears a wanker hat; he always smells like urine and he thinks the Earth is flat.

No longer is this sentence is cut in half. Jekra!

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Lorddave

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What about a shiton of wires?
Or a shiton of microradio towers cleverly placed to avoid obstacles.

Consider this, If the conpricy exists they invented satellite signal technology. Now if they wanted to people to beleive in a round earth they would make this technology say that we need these exact conditions at these exact points to work. So, Why wouldn't they say just that? Plus the promotion of the existence of satellites just gives them another venue for making profits.

Perhaps the definition of Satellite Technology needs to be defined.
Satellite Technology is the technology that allows machines to be put into orbit and function.  Everything beyond that is basic transmission.

Now, as someone who HAS a satellite TV system, I can tell you that I need to point it at a very specific point or it won't work.  How do I know?  I've moved it and it stopped working.  Doesn't take much either, just a few degrees.

As for a shit-ton of cleverly placed microwave transmitters...
Well that falls apart when
A) You have Airplanes using GPS.
B) You have boats Using GPS
C) The cost and manpower would be greater than all the road construction crews in the world rebuilding every road in said world.  I think someone would have noticed.
D) Shit-ton of power would also be required.

Look, you say you aren't a science guy and that's fine.  But those of us who know the subject matter know what it would require and know full well that it's physically impossible to have a ground microwave signal appear to originate from the sky.  Not unless you use some kind of fictional technology like wormhole generators.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

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markjo

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What about a shiton of wires?
Or a shiton of microradio towers cleverly placed to avoid obstacles.

Wouldn't that cut into the conspiracy's profit margin?  Not only would the conspiracy need to develop and deploy a shiton of equipment to simulate the satellites, but also maintain them (along with the secret).  How can all of these extra layers of complexity possibly be profitable?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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2fst4u

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I also don't see why they'd need to lie about it. Telling everyone how a ground based positioning system works isn't going to make the world go "WTF? I thort the world wuz rownd?"

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Lorddave

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It would revolutionize the cell phone system.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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The Question1

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I also don't see why they'd need to lie about it. Telling everyone how a ground based positioning system works isn't going to make the world go "WTF? I thort the world wuz rownd?"
Obviously they knew about the FES and that if satellites did not exist,it could not be used as evidence for an RE.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2010, 05:03:46 PM by The Question1 »

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Vongeo

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I also don't see why they'd need to lie about it. Telling everyone how a ground based positioning system works isn't going to make the world go "WTF? I thort the world wuz rownd?"
Well it couldn't hurt. Plus they can get paid by launching private satellites.
Vongeo is a wanker, he wears a wanker hat; he always smells like urine and he thinks the Earth is flat.

No longer is this sentence is cut in half. Jekra!

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Lorddave

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I also don't see why they'd need to lie about it. Telling everyone how a ground based positioning system works isn't going to make the world go "WTF? I thort the world wuz rownd?"
Well it couldn't hurt. Plus they can get paid by launching private satellites.

And yet, the price of launching those satellites pales in comparison to the cost of maintaining the conspiracy.  Let's say someone wants to put in a new communications satellite.  You'd need to setup more transmitters (however you do it) in secret.  That alone is probably more than the fuel cost.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.