Poll

Can we make a conscious machine?

yes
20 (76.9%)
no
6 (23.1%)

Total Members Voted: 26

Can we make a conscious machine?

  • 108 Replies
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Re: Can we make a conscious machine?
« Reply #90 on: April 25, 2010, 06:44:21 PM »
What is your definition of an input?
something that affects it. from itself to outside forces. note I did not say stored all inputs.

Well then a leaf has the ability to store inputs. This seems like too nebulous a definition. Could you redefine input?
it is hard to be more specific then that. does a book have memory? if yes then what is the difference between that and the ground storing foot prints. if no then what is the difference between that and a hard drive storing things on magnets?

It seems there are many things in the universe which we do not yet understand.
that is kind of my point. there is no way of knowing if the computers are conscious and there seems to be minimal reason to assume they are.
You can't outrun death forever
But you can sure make the old bastard work for it.

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minorwork

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Re: Can we make a conscious machine?
« Reply #91 on: April 26, 2010, 09:59:04 AM »
DARPA sponsored, the development of the memristor's potential for the synthetic ghost in the machine gains speed.

Nanotechnology's road to artificial brains
“In the absence of willpower the most complete collection of virtues and talents is wholly worthless. “ ~ Aleister Crowley

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minorwork

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Re: Can we make a conscious machine?
« Reply #92 on: April 26, 2010, 01:57:45 PM »
that is kind of my point. there is no way of knowing if the computers are conscious and there seems to be minimal reason to assume they are.
Couldn't you say the same of any other human?  I thought the classic Turing test  the only way to determine whether a synthetic has matched my resemblance of your conscious behavior.  Are there humans that can NOT pass the Turing test?
“In the absence of willpower the most complete collection of virtues and talents is wholly worthless. “ ~ Aleister Crowley

Re: Can we make a conscious machine?
« Reply #93 on: April 26, 2010, 02:13:31 PM »
that is kind of my point. there is no way of knowing if the computers are conscious and there seems to be minimal reason to assume they are.
Couldn't you say the same of any other human?  I thought the classic Turing test  the only way to determine whether a synthetic has matched my resemblance of your conscious behavior.  Are there humans that can NOT pass the Turing test?
you really couldn't say the same thing about humans if for no other reason that you have consciousness then other people probably have consciousness. I would disagree that the Turing test proves consciousness.
You can't outrun death forever
But you can sure make the old bastard work for it.

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minorwork

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Re: Can we make a conscious machine?
« Reply #94 on: April 26, 2010, 02:16:36 PM »
What proves consciousness?   You have it don't you?  But do I?
“In the absence of willpower the most complete collection of virtues and talents is wholly worthless. “ ~ Aleister Crowley

Re: Can we make a conscious machine?
« Reply #95 on: April 26, 2010, 02:24:58 PM »
responds to enviroment maybe, if i may venture a guess.
an vir

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minorwork

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Re: Can we make a conscious machine?
« Reply #96 on: April 26, 2010, 02:35:10 PM »
responds to enviroment maybe, if i may venture a guess.
A pond responds to a rock thrown in it.  The pond is conscious?
“In the absence of willpower the most complete collection of virtues and talents is wholly worthless. “ ~ Aleister Crowley

Re: Can we make a conscious machine?
« Reply #97 on: April 26, 2010, 02:48:38 PM »
that's not what i meant, if it is hot out and it jumps in the pond to cool off. this is a hard thing to describe.
an vir

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minorwork

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Re: Can we make a conscious machine?
« Reply #98 on: April 26, 2010, 02:51:01 PM »
that's not what i meant, if it is hot out and it jumps in the pond to cool off. this is a hard thing to describe.
Yep.  If it was easy we'd have cavemen doing it.  ;D
“In the absence of willpower the most complete collection of virtues and talents is wholly worthless. “ ~ Aleister Crowley

Re: Can we make a conscious machine?
« Reply #99 on: April 27, 2010, 05:09:56 AM »
How to not fuck over the world with your first SI:
Put it in a physical body that it CAN NOT GET OUT OF EVER.
Do not give it wireless internet access. It MUST use a SEPERATE COMPUTER to access the internet.
Do not give it any ability to "plug in" to anything.
In other words: human made of mechanical parts.

END DRAMA

When I was 5 years old my mum always told me that happiness was the key to life.
When I went to school they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up.
I wrote down "happy."
They told me I didn't understand the assignment.

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Pongo

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Re: Can we make a conscious machine?
« Reply #100 on: April 27, 2010, 05:18:27 AM »
I don't understand why almost everyone is under the presumption that a sentient machine would draw the conclusion that ALL HUMANS ARE BAD or INFERIOR and would try to exterminate humanity.

There is one simple and undeniable reason for this line of thinking... it makes for good story telling.  Everything else is people's predispositions from having already been hyper-saturated to the concept via science fiction. 

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minorwork

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Re: Can we make a conscious machine?
« Reply #101 on: April 27, 2010, 09:57:37 AM »
How to not fuck over the world with your first SI:
Put it in a physical body that it CAN NOT GET OUT OF EVER.
Do not give it wireless internet access. It MUST use a SEPARATE COMPUTER to access the internet.
Do not give it any ability to "plug in" to anything.
In other words: human made of mechanical parts.

END DRAMA
If there was no discernible difference to the five senses between the Cylon and a human how would you accomplish your isolation?  The seat of consciousness would be in the dense synaptic volume equivalent of our brain.  Twould be the same with the Cylon, though its "brain" would consist of an equally dense synaptic volume with an engineered architecture rather than the "hit and miss" Darwinian one we possess.

How would you isolate a human that had the potential to enslave the world?  Seems you'd have to do the same to a Cylon, if you could identify it.  But in the early stage your idea is certainly applicable.  How do you tell if it is conscious?  Look for signs of emotions? 
 

“In the absence of willpower the most complete collection of virtues and talents is wholly worthless. “ ~ Aleister Crowley

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minorwork

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  • Destroyer of Worlds
Re: Can we make a conscious machine?
« Reply #102 on: April 27, 2010, 10:21:46 AM »
There is one simple and undeniable reason for this line of thinking... it makes for good story telling.  Everything else is people's predispositions from having already been hyper-saturated to the concept via science fiction. 
  But what about history?  Historically, wet logic node consciousness's called human, like Pol Pot, Stalin, Hitler and individuals like them, with the obvious potential to become centers of despotism is what is feared.  These are not the fictions of the stories you hold responsible for suspicions of synthetic consciousness.  Don't you have to suppose a Cylon the equivalent threat to these historical types at the very least?  If you can manage rogue wetwares from history then you might manage the potential of a Cylon gone rogue.  Yes?  And how are we to stop an intelligent conscious rogue human?  Don't know if we've figured that out yet or how to even test for one while immature and not at its full potential.  How do you measure intent?
 
Here there be tigers.  The restrictions on Cylons will become applicable to humans,  necessitating restrictions on human freedoms to contain a rogue consciousness whether cybernetic or human.
“In the absence of willpower the most complete collection of virtues and talents is wholly worthless. “ ~ Aleister Crowley

Re: Can we make a conscious machine?
« Reply #103 on: April 29, 2010, 02:57:08 AM »
How to not fuck over the world with your first SI:
Put it in a physical body that it CAN NOT GET OUT OF EVER.
Do not give it wireless internet access. It MUST use a SEPARATE COMPUTER to access the internet.
Do not give it any ability to "plug in" to anything.
In other words: human made of mechanical parts.

END DRAMA
How would you isolate a human that had the potential to enslave the world?
See: World War 2 for further reading.
When I was 5 years old my mum always told me that happiness was the key to life.
When I went to school they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up.
I wrote down "happy."
They told me I didn't understand the assignment.

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minorwork

  • 46
  • Destroyer of Worlds
Re: Can we make a conscious machine?
« Reply #104 on: April 29, 2010, 08:24:35 AM »
See: World War 2 for further reading.
Make your point. 

Every human enslaves the world from conception to one degree or another.  Each has the potential to realize that it does this as an individual, though some never get it.  What individuations will Cylons possess to distinguish them from each other?  Supposing them learning machines, each will be at a different stage as they come "on line" and become conscious from a different point in space/time.

If they all be alike then each Cylon has the potential, in its design, to eliminate men, worship our race or individuals, or co-exist with man as equal stars of consciousness.

Shall we  make them superior to us?  Let them feel pain.  Then there will be no superiority.  How the hell do we do that, though?  How do we give them the interesting experience of ripping a big toe nail off from tripping on a furnace intake floor grate, and then, intending to ease the unendurable anguish by running cold water on the wound, instantly double the pain's intensity?  How do we give Cylons pain? :o  It must somehow have the capacity to be divided, perhaps as two or more -- perhaps hundreds more -- consciousnesses fighting for control of one body.

Will they be allowed to hold office and run the government of humans?   Then hold back on giving them a sense of ownership.  What harm could that do? ??? ::)  Perhaps they would not take an interest in survival, self-interest being lacking.  If done though it might be that they would not consider human perspectives in their decisions.  Kind of like the human despots.

If a Cylon can pass a Turing test who would know whether human or Cylon was running the show?  Will a Cylon have to fake reading from a teleprompter to retain human confidence in its fallibility?
“In the absence of willpower the most complete collection of virtues and talents is wholly worthless. “ ~ Aleister Crowley

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Chris Spaghetti

  • Flat Earth Editor
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Re: Can we make a conscious machine?
« Reply #105 on: April 29, 2010, 09:12:28 AM »
Why give them bodies at all? leave the SI consciousness on an un-networked computer with connections to various sensorsand cameras and microphones instead.

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minorwork

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  • Destroyer of Worlds
Re: Can we make a conscious machine?
« Reply #106 on: April 29, 2010, 02:44:19 PM »
Why give them bodies at all? leave the SI consciousness on an un-networked computer with connections to various sensors and cameras and microphones instead.
Caution.  Yes, indeed.  Keep the slaves in chains.  Could you empathize with it being denied freedom of movement?  Would you deny consciousness freedom of movement; fearing its revealed knowledge or actions a threat to its jailers?  There is precedent for such isolation when the consciousness is human.

Between 1966 and 1987 [ur=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Hessl]Rudolph Hess[/url] was the only inmate at Spandau Prison in West Berlin, Germany.  A facility capable of housing 600 inmates.  It was closed after Hess's death.

If the Synthetic Intelligence can learn, could it lie?
“In the absence of willpower the most complete collection of virtues and talents is wholly worthless. “ ~ Aleister Crowley

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babsinva

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  • aka Mr. Fahrenheit
Re: Can we make a conscious machine?
« Reply #107 on: May 03, 2010, 10:41:24 PM »
Do you think it is possible to make a robot that is conscious?  :o

Conscious (awake, alert, with all their faculties), OR Conscience - like ..... having one? (on one's mind)

I would say some people are conscience that they are unconscious most of the time.

« Last Edit: May 03, 2010, 10:47:20 PM by babsinva »
Quote from Big Giant Head:  "Considered fictitious or phantom does not quantify its non-existence."

Quote from Soze:  "We cannot escape perception, but we can't assume reality doesn't exist outside of perception."

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Mykael

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Re: Can we make a conscious machine?
« Reply #108 on: May 03, 2010, 11:02:02 PM »
Do you think it is possible to make a robot that is conscious?  :o

Conscious (awake, alert, with all their faculties), OR Conscience - like ..... having one? (on one's mind)

I would say some people are conscience that they are unconscious most of the time.


A sentient machine: one that is self-aware.