What would cause an asteroid to stop accelerating upwards?

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004forever

What would cause an asteroid to stop accelerating upwards?
« on: April 06, 2010, 12:47:30 PM »
The idea in FET is that the entire universe is accelerating upwards at the same speed.  Things falling are explained by the fact that there is no longer anything pushing it up so the Earth accelerates to this.  All of the heavenly bodies are accelerating upwards at the same speed, but what would cause something like an asteroid to stop accelerating upwards so that the Earth can run into it.  It's not the same as an object on Earth(which is pushed into acceleration by the Earth)  It's assumed to already by accelerating.  So why does it stop?

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Deceiver

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Re: What would cause an asteroid to stop accelerating upwards?
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2010, 01:03:41 PM »
I made a similar post to this one yesterday.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=37730.0

I'm guessing that since that topic is utterly silent (not even a "prove it" or "lookup this") that the FE community must be dumbfounded, creating some new magic force that only affects comets/asteroids (but still doesn't affect organic life forms), or converting to the wisdom that is RE!
 :o

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The Question1

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004forever

Re: What would cause an asteroid to stop accelerating upwards?
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2010, 06:41:17 PM »
you guys really have nothing?  I mean, I was expecting some sort of half-assed explanation even just instructions to lurk more.  But I wasn't expecting absolutely nothing.

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Lorddave

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Re: What would cause an asteroid to stop accelerating upwards?
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2010, 07:16:04 PM »
Why not?
They can't answer it so they won't bother.  Especially since it's been brought up many times.
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004forever

Re: What would cause an asteroid to stop accelerating upwards?
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2010, 07:19:31 PM »
Why not?
They can't answer it so they won't bother.  Especially since it's been brought up many times.

Yeah, but they usually have something to say.  tell me it's pieces of the moon that fell off, or NASA is launching rocks into the air to fool people.  It stuns me that they have absolutely nothing to explain it.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: What would cause an asteroid to stop accelerating upwards?
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2010, 08:44:52 PM »
I'm of the opinion that extraterrestrial objects that hit the Earth come from outside the observable universe.  They therefore accelerate at a different rate and, thus, occasionally come in contact with the Earth.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Death-T

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Re: What would cause an asteroid to stop accelerating upwards?
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2010, 09:01:30 PM »
I'm of the opinion that extraterrestrial objects that hit the Earth come from outside the observable universe.  They therefore accelerate at a different rate and, thus, occasionally come in contact with the Earth.

And the face of the moon?
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: What would cause an asteroid to stop accelerating upwards?
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2010, 09:07:11 PM »
I'm of the opinion that extraterrestrial objects that hit the Earth come from outside the observable universe.  They therefore accelerate at a different rate and, thus, occasionally come in contact with the Earth.

And the face of the moon?

Why not?
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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2fst4u

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Re: What would cause an asteroid to stop accelerating upwards?
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2010, 09:12:02 PM »
I'm of the opinion that extraterrestrial objects that hit the Earth come from outside the observable universe.  They therefore accelerate at a different rate and, thus, occasionally come in contact with the Earth.

And the face of the moon?

Why not?
It's pretty hard to hit something on a given side when there's another infinitely wide object covering that side.

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Death-T

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Re: What would cause an asteroid to stop accelerating upwards?
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2010, 09:14:33 PM »
I'm of the opinion that extraterrestrial objects that hit the Earth come from outside the observable universe.  They therefore accelerate at a different rate and, thus, occasionally come in contact with the Earth.

And the face of the moon?

Why not?

From what I understand - the general FET community says everything is traveling "upward" as in a singular direction - what forces would you say would be require to not only get the object to move in a different direction but would also impact the side of moon facing us? Does it have a curved trajectory? Do we (FE) suddenly repulse the object as it nears us and sent it back at the moon, as with a ball rebounding off a wall? Does the object drop below out plane of observation, gain a source of energy/velocity, and then go the exact direction needed to hit the moon? Why does the object lose the force that is projecting it upward?

Explain.
" Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. " - Albert Einstein

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: What would cause an asteroid to stop accelerating upwards?
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2010, 10:02:41 PM »
It's pretty hard to hit something on a given side when there's another infinitely wide object covering that side.

I don't believe the Earth is infinitely wide.

From what I understand - the general FET community says everything is traveling "upward" as in a singular direction -

Well, the sun (for example) doesn't travel upward "as in a singular direction", because it is simultaneously revolving around the celestial hub.  Obviously celestial objects travel in other directions than just up.

Quote
what forces would you say would be require to not only get the object to move in a different direction

As I stated the objects come from outside the observed universe (ie, somewhere to the side).  They are therefore not affected by the Earth's dark energy, and in fact are likely propelled by an alien source of dark energy, or perhaps even an entirely different sort of propellant.

Quote
but would also impact the side of moon facing us?

That's an interesting question.  It seems to me that exactly the same sort of conundrum appears in RET.  My guess is that it's explained by the moon's shape and gravitation.

Quote
Does it have a curved trajectory?

Probably.

Quote
Do we (FE) suddenly repulse the object as it nears us and sent it back at the moon, as with a ball rebounding off a wall?

No.

Quote
Does the object drop below out plane of observation, gain a source of energy/velocity, and then go the exact direction needed to hit the moon? Why does the object lose the force that is projecting it upward?

Explain.

Actually, it occurs to me that the sphericity itself of the moon is likely responsible for its being a target for extrauniversal objects, combined with its inherent gravitational attractiveness.  The extrauniversal objects that hit it probably simply get caught in the moon's own geodesics.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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2fst4u

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Re: What would cause an asteroid to stop accelerating upwards?
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2010, 10:03:41 PM »
It's pretty hard to hit something on a given side when there's another infinitely wide object covering that side.

I don't believe the Earth is infinitely wide.
Either way, the FE is pretty wide, right? How do craters become so evenly distributed on all sides with such a large thing in the way?

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: What would cause an asteroid to stop accelerating upwards?
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2010, 10:05:09 PM »
It's pretty hard to hit something on a given side when there's another infinitely wide object covering that side.

I don't believe the Earth is infinitely wide.
Either way, the FE is pretty wide, right? How do craters become so evenly distributed on all sides with such a large thing in the way?

I don't know what moon you're looking at, but the distribution of craters on the face of the moon I observe appears anything but evenly distributed to me.

edit: Forget I said that.  Obviously one side of the moon looks far more scarred than the other, but forget that.  I feel my answer to Death-T more than satisfactorily answers this question anyway.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 10:07:32 PM by Roundy the Truthinessist »
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Deceiver

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Re: What would cause an asteroid to stop accelerating upwards?
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2010, 10:19:48 PM »
Using calculus has the implication that this topic deserves serious attention, so pardon me for making us of plebeian math.

Utilizing the magic of trig and the assumptions taken from the FAQ... for an impactor to hit the side of the moon facing earth without intersecting it... the object must approach the moon from an angle between 0 and 26.4 degrees below the horizontal on the side nearest the rim. That is assuming that the the moon sits at the midway point between the center of the disk and outer rim (12,000 miles to the center/12,000 miles to the outer rim). Since the moon has almost no diameter relative to anything important, I treated it as a point. Obviously, if the moon is hovering on one side of the earth, the objects angle on the far side would have to me much shallower (less than 9.5 degrees) to impact it.

Parameters are as follows:
Earth Radius = 12,000 miles
height of moon relative to earth = 3,000 miles
angle of earth to moon = 90 degrees, obviously!

For comparison purposes, under the RE theory, the earth only blocks an arc equal to 1.9 degrees worth of surface area at any given moment. (Earth radius being 6.366km, distance to the moon, 384,000km)
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 11:40:35 PM by Deceiver »

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Deceiver

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Re: What would cause an asteroid to stop accelerating upwards?
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2010, 10:28:21 PM »
It's pretty hard to hit something on a given side when there's another infinitely wide object covering that side.

I don't believe the Earth is infinitely wide.
Either way, the FE is pretty wide, right? How do craters become so evenly distributed on all sides with such a large thing in the way?

I don't know what moon you're looking at, but the distribution of craters on the face of the moon I observe appears anything but evenly distributed to me.

edit: Forget I said that.  Obviously one side of the moon looks far more scarred than the other, but forget that.  I feel my answer to Death-T more than satisfactorily answers this question anyway.

I have no idea what sort of resolution your moon is at, but using a moderate telescope or Google Earth (it has a moon feature too) or those lovely doctored satellite photos, you see that the moon isn't just heavily cratered, it is downright blasted to bits. Small craters vastly outnumber the big ones, and most craters have sets of craters within them as well.

Regarding your previous post:
RET doesnt have an impact 'conundrum'. The steady accrection of matter through repeated impacts is what led to the formation of the moon, earth, and every other celestial object from conglomerates of space dust to the gas giants sweeping up both dust and gas. Objects being spherical makes them easier to hit too -- much more surface area!
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 10:33:36 PM by Deceiver »

Re: What would cause an asteroid to stop accelerating upwards?
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2010, 04:25:51 AM »
Well, the sun (for example) doesn't travel upward "as in a singular direction", because it is simultaneously revolving around the celestial hub.  Obviously celestial objects travel in other directions than just up.

So, what force is it that causes the sun's orbital radius to pulsate as it allegedly does?
"We know that the sun is 93 million miles away and takes up 5 degrees of the sky.

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Lorddave

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Re: What would cause an asteroid to stop accelerating upwards?
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2010, 04:34:26 AM »
Well, the sun (for example) doesn't travel upward "as in a singular direction", because it is simultaneously revolving around the celestial hub.  Obviously celestial objects travel in other directions than just up.

So, what force is it that causes the sun's orbital radius to pulsate as it allegedly does?

And what keeps the Earth from smashing into the Sun?
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markjo

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Re: What would cause an asteroid to stop accelerating upwards?
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2010, 06:25:32 AM »
It's pretty hard to hit something on a given side when there's another infinitely wide object covering that side.

I don't believe the Earth is infinitely wide.

There are several prominent FE'ers who disagree with you.  Somebody must be wrong.
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Re: What would cause an asteroid to stop accelerating upwards?
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2010, 06:41:22 AM »
It's pretty hard to hit something on a given side when there's another infinitely wide object covering that side.

I don't believe the Earth is infinitely wide.

There are several prominent FE'ers who disagree with you.  Somebody must be wrong.

Im fairly sure everybody is wrong. But then I make the mistake of reading those crackpot science journals and not some stoners blog.

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markjo

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Re: What would cause an asteroid to stop accelerating upwards?
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2010, 06:42:58 AM »
It's pretty hard to hit something on a given side when there's another infinitely wide object covering that side.

I don't believe the Earth is infinitely wide.

There are several prominent FE'ers who disagree with you.  Somebody must be wrong.

Im fairly sure everybody is wrong. But then I make the mistake of reading those crackpot science journals and not some stoners blog.

Now, now Bowler.  I didn't expect you to get so cynical.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: What would cause an asteroid to stop accelerating upwards?
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2010, 07:39:52 AM »
It's pretty hard to hit something on a given side when there's another infinitely wide object covering that side.

I don't believe the Earth is infinitely wide.

There are several prominent FE'ers who disagree with you.  Somebody must be wrong.

Yeah, I know your right. Its probably time I moved on I only joined to put the neutirno point forward. I should have guessed from the forum title that a scientific argument probably wouldn't help. I just can't resist a good debate, even one this absurd.
Im fairly sure everybody is wrong. But then I make the mistake of reading those crackpot science journals and not some stoners blog.

Now, now Bowler.  I didn't expect you to get so cynical.

Re: What would cause an asteroid to stop accelerating upwards?
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2010, 08:36:42 AM »
Well, what I'm wondering is, amongst other things, is do we observe a definite change in trajectory once the object enters the Earth's gravitational field, and shouldn't this change in trajectory be very obvious to the common observer.
Observe:


I haven't seen any models or evidense that this affect actually occurs to these rogue objects in the solar system.  It always appears as if they follow a straight trajectory towards us.
Books don't lie...the people that write them do.

Re: What would cause an asteroid to stop accelerating upwards?
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2010, 08:45:58 AM »
Well, the sun (for example) doesn't travel upward "as in a singular direction", because it is simultaneously revolving around the celestial hub.  Obviously celestial objects travel in other directions than just up.

So, what force is it that causes the sun's orbital radius to pulsate as it allegedly does?

And what keeps the Earth from smashing into the Sun?

What does that have to do with my question?
"We know that the sun is 93 million miles away and takes up 5 degrees of the sky.

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Deceiver

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Re: What would cause an asteroid to stop accelerating upwards?
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2010, 09:00:38 AM »
Well, what I'm wondering is, amongst other things, is do we observe a definite change in trajectory once the object enters the Earth's gravitational field, and shouldn't this change in trajectory be very obvious to the common observer.
Observe:


I haven't seen any models or evidense that this affect actually occurs to these rogue objects in the solar system.  It always appears as if they follow a straight trajectory towards us.

Mizzle, all objects in space are subject to the gravitational effects of near and far bodies. At the surface of earth, the measured gravitational acceleration is 9.8m/sec. As you get further from the earth, this value decreases. When an asteroid comes close to earth, it experiences acceleration towards the earth, however, a downward acceleration of even 10m/sec is negligible to objects that have a horizontal velocity in excess of 30km/sec. It must be very close to earth for this downward acceleration to make it impact us. In most cases, the asteroid has to have an exact trajectory towards the earth in order to hit it. A slight offset will cause not just a miss, but it will increase it's velocity such that it will be further from the earth the next time it makes a complete revolution around the sun. Space probes use the acceleration from gravitational attraction of planets to launch them to other planets and save fuel. This is how our lovely space probes examine the outer planets for years on end despite very limited fuel. They are moon hopping constantly.

Gravitational lensing is equivalent. An object that is behind the sun can be seen because light that passes very close to the sun changes trajectories every so slightly from the gravitational pull.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2010, 09:33:54 AM by Deceiver »

Re: What would cause an asteroid to stop accelerating upwards?
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2010, 10:16:17 AM »

Mizzle, all objects in space are subject to the gravitational effects of near and far bodies. At the surface of earth, the measured gravitational acceleration is 9.8m/sec. As you get further from the earth, this value decreases. When an asteroid comes close to earth, it experiences acceleration towards the earth, however, a downward acceleration of even 10m/sec is negligible to objects that have a horizontal velocity in excess of 30km/sec. It must be very close to earth for this downward acceleration to make it impact us. In most cases, the asteroid has to have an exact trajectory towards the earth in order to hit it. A slight offset will cause not just a miss, but it will increase it's velocity such that it will be further from the earth the next time it makes a complete revolution around the sun. Space probes use the acceleration from gravitational attraction of planets to launch them to other planets and save fuel. This is how our lovely space probes examine the outer planets for years on end despite very limited fuel. They are moon hopping constantly.

Gravitational lensing is equivalent. An object that is behind the sun can be seen because light that passes very close to the sun changes trajectories every so slightly from the gravitational pull.
Yes, I see this could stand if the two objects (Earth and asteroid) were moving in perpendicular/tangent trajectories, but say for instance that the asteroid had a trajectory parallel (in close proximity) to the Earth.  It would stand to reason that as both bodies travel through space, the Earth would significantly pull the asteroid closer to itself/into itself, and this would be visibly detectable.  Do all objects that hit the Earth hit us 'broadside?'
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Deceiver

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Re: What would cause an asteroid to stop accelerating upwards?
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2010, 10:24:06 AM »

Mizzle, all objects in space are subject to the gravitational effects of near and far bodies. At the surface of earth, the measured gravitational acceleration is 9.8m/sec. As you get further from the earth, this value decreases. When an asteroid comes close to earth, it experiences acceleration towards the earth, however, a downward acceleration of even 10m/sec is negligible to objects that have a horizontal velocity in excess of 30km/sec. It must be very close to earth for this downward acceleration to make it impact us. In most cases, the asteroid has to have an exact trajectory towards the earth in order to hit it. A slight offset will cause not just a miss, but it will increase it's velocity such that it will be further from the earth the next time it makes a complete revolution around the sun. Space probes use the acceleration from gravitational attraction of planets to launch them to other planets and save fuel. This is how our lovely space probes examine the outer planets for years on end despite very limited fuel. They are moon hopping constantly.

Gravitational lensing is equivalent. An object that is behind the sun can be seen because light that passes very close to the sun changes trajectories every so slightly from the gravitational pull.
Yes, I see this could stand if the two objects (Earth and asteroid) were moving in perpendicular/tangent trajectories, but say for instance that the asteroid had a trajectory parallel (in close proximity) to the Earth.  It would stand to reason that as both bodies travel through space, the Earth would significantly pull the asteroid closer to itself/into itself, and this would be visibly detectable.  Do all objects that hit the Earth hit us 'broadside?'

Space at this point is simply too sparsely populated by objects. Most of the asteroids are in the asteroid belt and they have pretty stable orbits. For objects that travel parallel to earth, sure, they are definitely going to hit us. But those types of asteroids don't exist anymore. Objects in the inner solar system all have very stable orbits. Every so often the gas giants perturb objects in the Oort cloud or the asteroid belt (rarely) and they start moving around in our solar system... but they have extremely erratic and wide orbits. Generally they slam into the gas giants -- that's where all the mass is at. In fact, Jupiter is a key element to life on earth -- it absorbs most of the wayward objects. Without it, earth would be bombarded much more heavily.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2010, 10:25:53 AM by Deceiver »

Re: What would cause an asteroid to stop accelerating upwards?
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2010, 10:40:22 AM »

Mizzle, all objects in space are subject to the gravitational effects of near and far bodies. At the surface of earth, the measured gravitational acceleration is 9.8m/sec. As you get further from the earth, this value decreases. When an asteroid comes close to earth, it experiences acceleration towards the earth, however, a downward acceleration of even 10m/sec is negligible to objects that have a horizontal velocity in excess of 30km/sec. It must be very close to earth for this downward acceleration to make it impact us. In most cases, the asteroid has to have an exact trajectory towards the earth in order to hit it. A slight offset will cause not just a miss, but it will increase it's velocity such that it will be further from the earth the next time it makes a complete revolution around the sun. Space probes use the acceleration from gravitational attraction of planets to launch them to other planets and save fuel. This is how our lovely space probes examine the outer planets for years on end despite very limited fuel. They are moon hopping constantly.

Gravitational lensing is equivalent. An object that is behind the sun can be seen because light that passes very close to the sun changes trajectories every so slightly from the gravitational pull.
Yes, I see this could stand if the two objects (Earth and asteroid) were moving in perpendicular/tangent trajectories, but say for instance that the asteroid had a trajectory parallel (in close proximity) to the Earth.  It would stand to reason that as both bodies travel through space, the Earth would significantly pull the asteroid closer to itself/into itself, and this would be visibly detectable.  Do all objects that hit the Earth hit us 'broadside?'

Space at this point is simply too sparsely populated by objects. Most of the asteroids are in the asteroid belt and they have pretty stable orbits. For objects that travel parallel to earth, sure, they are definitely going to hit us. But those types of asteroids don't exist anymore. Objects in the inner solar system all have very stable orbits. Every so often the gas giants perturb objects in the Oort cloud or the asteroid belt (rarely) and they start moving around in our solar system... but they have extremely erratic and wide orbits. Generally they slam into the gas giants -- that's where all the mass is at. In fact, Jupiter is a key element to life on earth -- it absorbs most of the wayward objects. Without it, earth would be bombarded much more heavily.

lol, I'm very familiar with all of this.  Take Halley's Comet for instance;  Was there discernible acceleration/trajectory change during it's last observance?    If not, why?
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Deceiver

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Re: What would cause an asteroid to stop accelerating upwards?
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2010, 10:43:32 AM »

Mizzle, all objects in space are subject to the gravitational effects of near and far bodies. At the surface of earth, the measured gravitational acceleration is 9.8m/sec. As you get further from the earth, this value decreases. When an asteroid comes close to earth, it experiences acceleration towards the earth, however, a downward acceleration of even 10m/sec is negligible to objects that have a horizontal velocity in excess of 30km/sec. It must be very close to earth for this downward acceleration to make it impact us. In most cases, the asteroid has to have an exact trajectory towards the earth in order to hit it. A slight offset will cause not just a miss, but it will increase it's velocity such that it will be further from the earth the next time it makes a complete revolution around the sun. Space probes use the acceleration from gravitational attraction of planets to launch them to other planets and save fuel. This is how our lovely space probes examine the outer planets for years on end despite very limited fuel. They are moon hopping constantly.

Gravitational lensing is equivalent. An object that is behind the sun can be seen because light that passes very close to the sun changes trajectories every so slightly from the gravitational pull.
Yes, I see this could stand if the two objects (Earth and asteroid) were moving in perpendicular/tangent trajectories, but say for instance that the asteroid had a trajectory parallel (in close proximity) to the Earth.  It would stand to reason that as both bodies travel through space, the Earth would significantly pull the asteroid closer to itself/into itself, and this would be visibly detectable.  Do all objects that hit the Earth hit us 'broadside?'

Space at this point is simply too sparsely populated by objects. Most of the asteroids are in the asteroid belt and they have pretty stable orbits. For objects that travel parallel to earth, sure, they are definitely going to hit us. But those types of asteroids don't exist anymore. Objects in the inner solar system all have very stable orbits. Every so often the gas giants perturb objects in the Oort cloud or the asteroid belt (rarely) and they start moving around in our solar system... but they have extremely erratic and wide orbits. Generally they slam into the gas giants -- that's where all the mass is at. In fact, Jupiter is a key element to life on earth -- it absorbs most of the wayward objects. Without it, earth would be bombarded much more heavily.

lol, I'm very familiar with all of this.  Take Halley's Comet for instance;  Was there discernible acceleration/trajectory change during it's last observance?    If not, why?

If you are familiar with it then we don't have an issue apparently.

Though I am rather curious as to how the orbit of Halley's comet has evolved over time, you'll have to look it up yourself. I'm not your personal researcher.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2010, 11:11:40 AM by Deceiver »