Top 10 signs that you are a true believer and Christian.

Of course it isn't persuasive to someone who does not believe in hell.

I am saying that if that same person assumes the christian "best hell" scenario for the sake of argument (as Dino Piranha did), then they should as well assume the christian "present reality in which God is present" or else the comparison between present and hell isn't valid as only one part of the christian scenario has been assumed.

There's nothing saying that a godless hell wouldn't be similar to the present. What if god's presence didn't make that much difference? Do we also have to assume that god's presence makes a difference?

Wouldn't humans simply rebuild our society in that form of "hell"?

I'm pretty sure I'd organize awesome gladiator matches between our now immortal selves. It would also remove all penalties from sinning, meaning we could set up a society based on giant orgies and giant wars to break up the boredom. First circle of hell is starting to sound orgasmic.

I found your list on stumbleupon

http://www.evilbible.com/Top_Ten_List.htm

Quote from: Mizzle on March 31, 2010, 04:58:57 PM

You also have the high ground when it comes to judging others, right?

Anyone who debates Christians definitely has the moral high ground.

How so?

*shrugs* the NT still condemns most people on Earth to Hell

People condemn themselves - we all have a conscience and know right from wrong. As Buddha said, "All know the path, but few walk it." (Similar to 'Christ' in the NT - "The path is narrow and few there be that find it.")

Hell is the grave, the earth.

Quote from: Chris Spaghetti on April 01, 2010, 05:58:09 PM

*shrugs* the NT still condemns most people on Earth to Hell

People condemn themselves - we all have a conscience and know right from wrong. As Buddha said, "All know the path, but few walk it." (Similar to 'Christ' in the NT - "The path is narrow and few there be that find it.")

Hell is the grave, the earth.

We condemn ourselves?

Why is the one setting the laws above fault?

Quote from: Friedrich on April 03, 2010, 01:19:58 PM

Quote from: malashenko on April 03, 2010, 12:49:56 AM

Quote from: The Terror on April 02, 2010, 05:01:35 AM

Early Christians believed in universal reconciliation, but the pesky Roman Catholics introduced the traditional view of hell for their own political purposes.

Actually us Catholics believe that Hell = State of being with God absent.

Any sources for that? After reading up on it at "vatican.va", the Catholic Church seems to disagree with you.

I thought there were various forms of hell and that was the nicest of the forms of hell.

The Catechism on Hell:

The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire." The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

You're thinking of the Divine Comedy, a fictional work. Actual beliefs of the Catholic Church aren't the same thing.

EDIT: More from the Catechism on Hell:

We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: "He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him." Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren.  To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell."