Why don't FETs do anything to prove the earth is flat?

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EarthISroundISproven

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Why don't FETs do anything to prove the earth is flat?
« on: March 25, 2010, 03:35:25 PM »
The technology is there....but why don't FET's fund their own satallite to go up and prove the earth is flat? Why don't they sail to the edge of the world and make fools of every sailer around the world that has sailed to Antarctic and knows it exists? Yet RET's are expected to accept that all the astro physics, cosmic samples collected, photos taken, the overwhelming amount of practical expeirments and research and more importantly proof should be ignored, discounted, and for what? A non scientific unproven make believe theory that doesn't even observe the laws of logic let alone physics?

The real question is why would anyone want to preserve a flat earth theory...who does it serve? My guess is the same religious band that impose creationism on the world. An inabilty to accept the earth as one tiny part of a complex but nonetheless both chaotic and logical universe. After all, when exploration began and the realisation dawned the earth was indeed round, it was the religious fanatics who protested most.

I think for that reason FET will never try too hard to be anything but a theory.

Re: Why don't FETs do anything to prove the earth is flat?
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2010, 03:47:42 PM »
i think one response you should expect is

why dont you sail around the world in all directions and prove the world is round.  Or fund your own satellite  to do so, etc.

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2fst4u

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Re: Why don't FETs do anything to prove the earth is flat?
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2010, 03:50:30 PM »
i think one response you should expect is

why dont you sail around the world in all directions and prove the world is round.  Or fund your own satellite  to do so, etc.
Not at all. FEers would much rather prove a Flat earth, fact of the matter is, it's fricken expensive.

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EarthISroundISproven

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Re: Why don't FETs do anything to prove the earth is flat?
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2010, 04:29:05 PM »
i think one response you should expect is

why dont you sail around the world in all directions and prove the world is round.  Or fund your own satellite  to do so, etc.

 I HAVE sailed around the world.....and countless others HAVE sent up satellites and proved the world is round....now answer the question...why doesn't FET do the same?

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EarthISroundISproven

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Re: Why don't FETs do anything to prove the earth is flat?
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2010, 04:32:56 PM »
i think one response you should expect is

why dont you sail around the world in all directions and prove the world is round.  Or fund your own satellite  to do so, etc.
Not at all. FEers would much rather prove a Flat earth, fact of the matter is, it's fricken expensive.

I disagree...I think they don't want it proven. Besides any attempt to get funding would be laughed at. It's a stupid theory proven to be wrong by every NASA photo, every private satellite, every GPS scanner, and every telescope and so on.....

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EarthISroundISproven

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Re: Why don't FETs do anything to prove the earth is flat?
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2010, 04:36:40 PM »
i think one response you should expect is

why dont you sail around the world in all directions and prove the world is round.  Or fund your own satellite  to do so, etc.
Not at all. FEers would much rather prove a Flat earth, fact of the matter is, it's fricken expensive.

btw your avatar says sod science but you might want to think about the next anti biotic you take or the next piece of equipment that saves your life and thank the scientists that made them possible.

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2fst4u

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Re: Why don't FETs do anything to prove the earth is flat?
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2010, 04:40:44 PM »
i think one response you should expect is

why dont you sail around the world in all directions and prove the world is round.  Or fund your own satellite  to do so, etc.
Not at all. FEers would much rather prove a Flat earth, fact of the matter is, it's fricken expensive.

btw your avatar says sod science but you might want to think about the next anti biotic you take or the next piece of equipment that saves your life and thank the scientists that made them possible.
You should learn sarcasm before trying to interpret the under-lying meaning of my avatar.

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EarthISroundISproven

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Re: Why don't FETs do anything to prove the earth is flat?
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2010, 04:48:38 PM »
i think one response you should expect is

why dont you sail around the world in all directions and prove the world is round.  Or fund your own satellite  to do so, etc.

Also the reason I refer to sailing is that I know what the distances are from various land points, countries, islands exactly (I've sailed them) and the map in the FAQ for example isn't anywhere close to those measurements. It's a map drawn up in someones sitting room who has never sailed anywhere. When sailors started exploring centuries ago, they used the same measurements to map the land they found and it is then they discovered the earth must be round, long before any complex scientific proof. It is very frustrating to have a conversation with anyone that for example says antartic doesn't exist as a polar mass when you've seen it with your own eyes, sailed around it and stood on it and collected explorers that have walked accross it. I don't mean to be rude to anyone but Flat Earth is the most lunatic of theories.

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trig

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Re: Why don't FETs do anything to prove the earth is flat?
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2010, 06:43:35 PM »
i think one response you should expect is

why dont you sail around the world in all directions and prove the world is round.  Or fund your own satellite  to do so, etc.
Not at all. FEers would much rather prove a Flat earth, fact of the matter is, it's fricken expensive.
Sorry to contradict you, but it is not expensive to demonstrate the Earth is flat or spherical. So many experiments have been offered, I lost count. I, for one, have proposed at least half a dozen, all of them possible with small telescopes, some travel (just a few hundred miles), a compass and maybe a watch.

On one occasion, for example, I asked them to check whether the Sun rises and sets near the East and West, respectively, during the Equinox, and not one FE theorist could do this experiment, with at most a cost of a few tens of dollars for a good compass.

Cheap rhetoric is great to keep the possibility of a flat Earth alive (somewhat) but even a couple of simple experiments with close to no cost would be impossible to just waive away.

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trig

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Re: Why don't FETs do anything to prove the earth is flat?
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2010, 06:48:37 PM »
PS. FE theorists want us to discuss voyages to the "end of the world" or around the Earth or into orbit, because they will never have to say they did them and came convinced of their mistake. At the very worst, they will say they were drugged and thought they saw a round Earth because of the drugs.

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EarthISroundISproven

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Re: Why don't FETs do anything to prove the earth is flat?
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2010, 07:15:25 PM »
PS. FE theorists want us to discuss voyages to the "end of the world" or around the Earth or into orbit, because they will never have to say they did them and came convinced of their mistake. At the very worst, they will say they were drugged and thought they saw a round Earth because of the drugs.

Yep precisely my point. Getting conclusive proof of the planet round or otherwise is easy but FETs don't want to see for themselves anything that shows a round earth. I still don't understand the point or purpose of a flat earth theory either.

Re: Why don't FETs do anything to prove the earth is flat?
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2010, 08:56:08 PM »
I stumbled upon this FE thing through my own quest for knowledge.  I feel there are some serious holes in accepted physics and common knowledge.

First, let me start with the disappearing ship in the distance effect.  Have you ever been out in the middle of the ocean on a ship and witnessed another ship disappear?  I have.  Guess what!!!  When you look through the binoculars, it's completely visible, not just the tippy top.  I'm not talking about little fishing boats that are just to small to see, I'm talking about huge ocean liners here.
If you've ever looked way off at the horizon in the open ocean, you'll notice a blury haze.  It looks like a 360 degree heat wave at the horizon.
If anyone can clear this up for me, I'd be persuaded to be ushered back to RE.  But until, the Earth is flat in my book.
Books don't lie...the people that write them do.

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Anteater7171

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Re: Why don't FETs do anything to prove the earth is flat?
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2010, 08:59:32 PM »
I stumbled upon this FE thing through my own quest for knowledge.  I feel there are some serious holes in accepted physics and common knowledge.

First, let me start with the disappearing ship in the distance effect.  Have you ever been out in the middle of the ocean on a ship and witnessed another ship disappear?  I have.  Guess what!!!  When you look through the binoculars, it's completely visible, not just the tippy top.  I'm not talking about little fishing boats that are just to small to see, I'm talking about huge ocean liners here.
If you've ever looked way off at the horizon in the open ocean, you'll notice a blury haze.  It looks like a 360 degree heat wave at the horizon.
If anyone can clear this up for me, I'd be persuaded to be ushered back to RE.  But until, the Earth is flat in my book.
No only the top is visible in FE.
I don't remember anything. Well, I do, but it's really vague. Like I was on drugs the whole time.

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EarthISroundISproven

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Re: Why don't FETs do anything to prove the earth is flat?
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2010, 09:04:17 PM »
The reason why the ship disappears to the naked eye is because of UV light (from the sun). Distant objects become obscured. The binoculars have a UV filter coating the lens that cuts out the UV or 'haze' hence the now visible ship. A good way to demonstrate this is when you look at old black and white photographs of landscapes you get same effect. The further away the background object the paler it looks. That's the effect of UV light. Modern cameras have uv coated lens and slr cameras come with UV filters to cut this out. When at sea I have UV coated sunglasses. The other thing going on at sea also is evaporation, esp over warm seas and on a sunny day you will sea this heatwave doing it's job.

OK I've looked...the coast is clear for you to come back to RE for now :)


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EarthISroundISproven

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Re: Why don't FETs do anything to prove the earth is flat?
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2010, 09:05:46 PM »
I stumbled upon this FE thing through my own quest for knowledge.  I feel there are some serious holes in accepted physics and common knowledge.

First, let me start with the disappearing ship in the distance effect.  Have you ever been out in the middle of the ocean on a ship and witnessed another ship disappear?  I have.  Guess what!!!  When you look through the binoculars, it's completely visible, not just the tippy top.  I'm not talking about little fishing boats that are just to small to see, I'm talking about huge ocean liners here.
If you've ever looked way off at the horizon in the open ocean, you'll notice a blury haze.  It looks like a 360 degree heat wave at the horizon.
If anyone can clear this up for me, I'd be persuaded to be ushered back to RE.  But until, the Earth is flat in my book.
No only the top is visible in FE.

Until is sails over the edge and falls off.

Re: Why don't FETs do anything to prove the earth is flat?
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2010, 09:15:33 PM »
The reason why the ship disappears to the naked eye is because of UV light (from the sun). Distant objects become obscured. The binoculars have a UV filter coating the lens that cuts out the UV or 'haze' hence the now visible ship. A good way to demonstrate this is when you look at old black and white photographs of landscapes you get same effect. The further away the background object the paler it looks. That's the effect of UV light. Modern cameras have uv coated lens and slr cameras come with UV filters to cut this out. When at sea I have UV coated sunglasses. The other thing going on at sea also is evaporation, esp over warm seas and on a sunny day you will sea this heatwave doing it's job.

OK I've looked...the coast is clear for you to come back to RE for now :)



With you so far...so where does the ship sinking below the horizon stake it's claim in reality?
Books don't lie...the people that write them do.

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Anteater7171

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Re: Why don't FETs do anything to prove the earth is flat?
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2010, 09:26:33 PM »
I stumbled upon this FE thing through my own quest for knowledge.  I feel there are some serious holes in accepted physics and common knowledge.

First, let me start with the disappearing ship in the distance effect.  Have you ever been out in the middle of the ocean on a ship and witnessed another ship disappear?  I have.  Guess what!!!  When you look through the binoculars, it's completely visible, not just the tippy top.  I'm not talking about little fishing boats that are just to small to see, I'm talking about huge ocean liners here.
If you've ever looked way off at the horizon in the open ocean, you'll notice a blury haze.  It looks like a 360 degree heat wave at the horizon.
If anyone can clear this up for me, I'd be persuaded to be ushered back to RE.  But until, the Earth is flat in my book.
No only the top is visible in FE.

Until is sails over the edge and falls off.

There is an icewall.
I don't remember anything. Well, I do, but it's really vague. Like I was on drugs the whole time.

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EarthISroundISproven

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Re: Why don't FETs do anything to prove the earth is flat?
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2010, 09:33:40 PM »
The reason why the ship disappears to the naked eye is because of UV light (from the sun). Distant objects become obscured. The binoculars have a UV filter coating the lens that cuts out the UV or 'haze' hence the now visible ship. A good way to demonstrate this is when you look at old black and white photographs of landscapes you get same effect. The further away the background object the paler it looks. That's the effect of UV light. Modern cameras have uv coated lens and slr cameras come with UV filters to cut this out. When at sea I have UV coated sunglasses. The other thing going on at sea also is evaporation, esp over warm seas and on a sunny day you will sea this heatwave doing it's job.

OK I've looked...the coast is clear for you to come back to RE for now :)



With you so far...so where does the ship sinking below the horizon stake it's claim in reality?

In reality its sailing until it disappears over the curvature of the earth. It's still there but you can't see it. A distance of around 40 ish miles is enough curvature for you to be no longer able to see it. And that's enough for a ship of around Titanics size to be no longer visible.

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EarthISroundISproven

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Re: Why don't FETs do anything to prove the earth is flat?
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2010, 09:37:12 PM »
I stumbled upon this FE thing through my own quest for knowledge.  I feel there are some serious holes in accepted physics and common knowledge.

First, let me start with the disappearing ship in the distance effect.  Have you ever been out in the middle of the ocean on a ship and witnessed another ship disappear?  I have.  Guess what!!!  When you look through the binoculars, it's completely visible, not just the tippy top.  I'm not talking about little fishing boats that are just to small to see, I'm talking about huge ocean liners here.
If you've ever looked way off at the horizon in the open ocean, you'll notice a blury haze.  It looks like a 360 degree heat wave at the horizon.
If anyone can clear this up for me, I'd be persuaded to be ushered back to RE.  But until, the Earth is flat in my book.
No only the top is visible in FE.

Until is sails over the edge and falls off.

There is an icewall.

Well apparently no-one ever sees it because some kind of bermuda triangle thing happens which means the compasses send ships away from it (that's why no-ones ever seen it)....a bit like the Truman show or Narnia depending on how old you are :D

Re: Why don't FETs do anything to prove the earth is flat?
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2010, 10:05:06 PM »
I see, I see.
Well, thanks for clearing all that up for me.  I'm a little skiddish on the UV part of the disappearing act, but I could see that being plausible.
Books don't lie...the people that write them do.

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Anteater7171

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Re: Why don't FETs do anything to prove the earth is flat?
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2010, 10:18:59 PM »
I stumbled upon this FE thing through my own quest for knowledge.  I feel there are some serious holes in accepted physics and common knowledge.

First, let me start with the disappearing ship in the distance effect.  Have you ever been out in the middle of the ocean on a ship and witnessed another ship disappear?  I have.  Guess what!!!  When you look through the binoculars, it's completely visible, not just the tippy top.  I'm not talking about little fishing boats that are just to small to see, I'm talking about huge ocean liners here.
If you've ever looked way off at the horizon in the open ocean, you'll notice a blury haze.  It looks like a 360 degree heat wave at the horizon.
If anyone can clear this up for me, I'd be persuaded to be ushered back to RE.  But until, the Earth is flat in my book.
No only the top is visible in FE.

Until is sails over the edge and falls off.

There is an icewall.

Well apparently no-one ever sees it because some kind of bermuda triangle thing happens which means the compasses send ships away from it (that's why no-ones ever seen it)....a bit like the Truman show or Narnia depending on how old you are :D

I don't remember anything. Well, I do, but it's really vague. Like I was on drugs the whole time.

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markjo

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Re: Why don't FETs do anything to prove the earth is flat?
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2010, 06:21:21 AM »
I stumbled upon this FE thing through my own quest for knowledge.  I feel there are some serious holes in accepted physics and common knowledge.

First, let me start with the disappearing ship in the distance effect.  Have you ever been out in the middle of the ocean on a ship and witnessed another ship disappear?  I have.  Guess what!!!  When you look through the binoculars, it's completely visible, not just the tippy top.  I'm not talking about little fishing boats that are just to small to see, I'm talking about huge ocean liners here.
If you've ever looked way off at the horizon in the open ocean, you'll notice a blury haze.  It looks like a 360 degree heat wave at the horizon.
If anyone can clear this up for me, I'd be persuaded to be ushered back to RE.  But until, the Earth is flat in my book.
No only the top is visible in FE.

Until is sails over the edge and falls off.

There is an icewall.

Nope.  The ice wall is too far inland to keep anybody from sailing off the edge.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Why don't FETs do anything to prove the earth is flat?
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2010, 06:46:06 AM »
i think one response you should expect is

why dont you sail around the world in all directions and prove the world is round.  Or fund your own satellite  to do so, etc.
Not at all. FEers would much rather prove a Flat earth, fact of the matter is, it's fricken expensive.
Sorry to contradict you, but it is not expensive to demonstrate the Earth is flat or spherical. So many experiments have been offered, I lost count. I, for one, have proposed at least half a dozen, all of them possible with small telescopes, some travel (just a few hundred miles), a compass and maybe a watch.

On one occasion, for example, I asked them to check whether the Sun rises and sets near the East and West, respectively, during the Equinox, and not one FE theorist could do this experiment, with at most a cost of a few tens of dollars for a good compass.

Cheap rhetoric is great to keep the possibility of a flat Earth alive (somewhat) but even a couple of simple experiments with close to no cost would be impossible to just waive away.



Not true. RE'ers often like to propose 'cheap experiments', and then harp on about how nobody has carried them out. What they conveniently forget is that many FE'ers (and indeed RE'ers) point out why these experiments won't prove anything, which is a pretty good reason for not doing them.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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EarthISroundISproven

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Re: Why don't FETs do anything to prove the earth is flat?
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2010, 08:11:41 AM »
HA HA love the photo anteater.....nice bit of photoshop! Still a bit mystified as to why I've never seen it on my ocean mapping travels though. And what's over the top of it again....where is the point where man can go no more, does anyone have a photo of that?

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Anteater7171

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Re: Why don't FETs do anything to prove the earth is flat?
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2010, 10:26:35 AM »
HA HA love the photo anteater.....nice bit of photoshop! Still a bit mystified as to why I've never seen it on my ocean mapping travels though. And what's over the top of it again....where is the point where man can go no more, does anyone have a photo of that?

It's not shopped :-\
I don't remember anything. Well, I do, but it's really vague. Like I was on drugs the whole time.

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markjo

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Re: Why don't FETs do anything to prove the earth is flat?
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2010, 12:16:37 PM »
Not true. RE'ers often like to propose 'cheap experiments', and then harp on about how nobody has carried them out. What they conveniently forget is that many FE'ers (and indeed RE'ers) point out why these experiments won't prove anything, which is a pretty good reason for not doing them.

Actually, there are any number of experiments that can be performed inexpensively that can definitely disprove FET.  A good example would be last week's equinox.  That would have been an ideal opportunity to see if sunrise and sunset observations match FET or RET predictions better.  However, since you don't actually want to put FET predictions to the test, I suppose the point is moot.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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EarthISroundISproven

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Re: Why don't FETs do anything to prove the earth is flat?
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2010, 12:25:38 PM »
Not true. RE'ers often like to propose 'cheap experiments', and then harp on about how nobody has carried them out. What they conveniently forget is that many FE'ers (and indeed RE'ers) point out why these experiments won't prove anything, which is a pretty good reason for not doing them.

Actually, there are any number of experiments that can be performed inexpensively that can definitely disprove FET.  A good example would be last week's equinox.  That would have been an ideal opportunity to see if sunrise and sunset observations match FET or RET predictions better.  However, since you don't actually want to put FET predictions to the test, I suppose the point is moot.

I did ask earlier for an FET explanation for eclipses but got some nonsense that the moon was a light source and no mention of eclipses.

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markjo

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Re: Why don't FETs do anything to prove the earth is flat?
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2010, 01:05:49 PM »
I did ask earlier for an FET explanation for eclipses but got some nonsense that the moon was a light source and no mention of eclipses.

I guess that it depends on whether you're talking about solar or lunar eclipses.  Solar eclipses are caused by the moon passing in front of the sun, as in RET.  However, there is a mysterious shadow object/anti-moon that either blocks the light from the sun or passes in front of the moon to cause a lunar eclipse, depending on who you ask.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

?

trig

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Re: Why don't FETs do anything to prove the earth is flat?
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2010, 06:52:12 PM »
Actually, there are any number of experiments that can be performed inexpensively that can definitely disprove FET.  A good example would be last week's equinox.  That would have been an ideal opportunity to see if sunrise and sunset observations match FET or RET predictions better.  However, since you don't actually want to put FET predictions to the test, I suppose the point is moot.
It is not too late to do this experiment, since the Equinox was only some 6 days ago. In fact, this experiment can be done with any location and any day of the year if you are ready to do some mathematics. The Equinox is just the easiest because you just have to see if the Sun rises close to the East and sets close to the West.

The real breakthrough would be when a Flat Earther publishes the data, so nobody will say he is a conspirator. But, of course, no self-proclaimed Flat Earther will ever do an experiment that will demolish his belief.

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trig

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Re: Why don't FETs do anything to prove the earth is flat?
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2010, 08:15:57 AM »
Just to show that I do the experiments and not just talk about them, I have just measured the direction where the Sun rose. It was 98o, which was 8 degrees South of what I expected. The difference between magnetic and true North for my location (4oN, 75oW) is about 5oW, and the time of the measurement (7:40 am) gives us a small error (about 1o). Also, the date when the measurement was done gives us another small error (about 2o), and the quality of the compass used gives us an additional 5o of error, giving us about 10o of expected maximum error.

By contrast, the measurement, for my location, should have been about 45o (that is a NE direction) for the Flat Earth model (as much as it is defined) to be validated.