Occam's Razor

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bloojax

Occam's Razor
« on: March 23, 2010, 02:36:59 PM »
This is getting annoying. FET is not simpler.
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Occam's Razor asks us which explanation makes the least number of assumptions. The explanation which makes the least number of assumptions is the simplest explanation. Occam's Razor works in favor of the Flat Earth Theory. Several examples exist below.

What's the simplest explanation; that my experience of existing upon a plane wherever I go and whatever I do is a massive illusion, that my eyes are constantly deceiving me and that I am actually looking at the enormous sphere of the earth spinning through space at tens of thousands of miles an hour, whirling in perpetual epicycles around the universe; or is the simplest explanation that my eyes are not playing tricks on me and that the earth is exactly as it appears?

Your eyes can lie to you. Mirages, hallucinations...you can't trust your eyes completely. You're really ignorant.

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What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter straight up at 7 miles per second, and that NASA can do the impossible on a daily basis, explore the cosmos, and constantly wow the nation by landing a man on the moon and sending robots to mars; or is the simplest explanation that they really can't do all of that stuff?

How do you think they built the computer? From scratch. How did they design a car? From scratch. Have you ever seen a rocket go up? I have. Unbelievably ignorant again: "They really can't do all that stuff". Misanthropic much?

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When I walk off the edge of a chair and go into free fall while observing the surface of the earth carefully the earth appears to accelerate up towards me. What's the simplest explanation; that there exists hypothetical undiscovered Graviton particles emanating from the earth which allows them to accelerate my body towards the surface through unexplained quantum effects; or is the simplest explanation that this mysterious highly theoretical mechanism does not exist and the earth has just accelerated upwards towards me exactly as I've observed?

Why don't you feel a rush upwards when you hit the ground then? According to you, you're going down, the ground is coming up. You should feel a rush upwards then as you hit the ground.

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What's the simplest explanation; that when I look up and see the sun slowly move across the sky over the course of the day, that the globe earth is spinning at over a thousand miles per hour - faster than the speed of sound at the equator - despite me being unable able to feel this centripetal acceleration, or is the simplest explanation that the sun itself is just moving across the sky exactly as I have observed?

Frame of reference. You know how cars next to you on the highway seem not to be moving? It's because you two are going the same speed. You and everything else are moving at the same speed as the Earth. That's why we don't notice or see it.

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What's the simplest explanation; that the sun, moon, and stars are enormous bodies of unimaginable mass, size, and distances which represent frontiers to a vast and infinite unknowable universe teeming with alien worlds, galactic civilizations, black holes, novas and nebulae, and phenomena only conceivable in science fiction; or is the simplest explanation that the universe isn't so large or unknown and when we look up at the stars we are just looking at small points of light exactly they appear to be?

Ignorance, ignorance, ignorace. Again, just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there. Hell, we could have the same argument about the microscopic world and debate if germs and bacteria exist and make us sick or if scientist are just faking the images for some other conspiracy.


For all your arguments you give a "simpler" answer, but your simpler answer is only simple because it's so ignorant. FET is not supported by Occam's Razor. And you say it yourself:

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Occam's Razor asks us which explanation makes the least number of assumptions.

FET: sub moon, anti moon, spotlight sun, bioluminecsence on the moon, bendy light, ice wall
RET: the earth is a globe

Yo could add gravity to RET, but even so RET has far fewer assumptions. I don't understand how you could actually think FET is simpler.

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2fst4u

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2010, 02:40:07 PM »
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When I walk off the edge of a chair and go into free fall while observing the surface of the earth carefully the earth appears to accelerate up towards me. What's the simplest explanation; that there exists hypothetical undiscovered Graviton particles emanating from the earth which allows them to accelerate my body towards the surface through unexplained quantum effects; or is the simplest explanation that this mysterious highly theoretical mechanism does not exist and the earth has just accelerated upwards towards me exactly as I've observed?

Why don't you feel a rush upwards when you hit the ground then? According to you, you're going down, the ground is coming up. You should feel a rush upwards then as you hit the ground.
You do. The air is accelerating at the same amount. You misunderstood their theory.

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General Douchebag

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2010, 03:15:56 PM »
It's been a while since we had an Occam's Razor thread, but that doesn't excuse you. Do a search, this has all been discussed many times by those very intimate with the theory, and Occam's Razor doesn't really work IRL. God is simpler than science, should we abandon wisdom in favour of faith?
No but I'm guess your what? 90? Cause you just so darn mature </sarcasm>

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bloojax

Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2010, 03:52:48 PM »
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When I walk off the edge of a chair and go into free fall while observing the surface of the earth carefully the earth appears to accelerate up towards me. What's the simplest explanation; that there exists hypothetical undiscovered Graviton particles emanating from the earth which allows them to accelerate my body towards the surface through unexplained quantum effects; or is the simplest explanation that this mysterious highly theoretical mechanism does not exist and the earth has just accelerated upwards towards me exactly as I've observed?

Why don't you feel a rush upwards when you hit the ground then? According to you, you're going down, the ground is coming up. You should feel a rush upwards then as you hit the ground.
You do. The air is accelerating at the same amount. You misunderstood their theory.

No, the ground rush up, not the air. Like a car crash- your body keeps going but you feel the impact when you hit the dashboard. It's hard to find a right analogy.

Well from what I gather FET has changed somewhat, so let's hear the new ideas why not?

God is the cheap answer, which is why every ancient civilization used it to answer things they couldn't understand. I'm catholic by the way, so we don't need to get into a theological discussion.

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Lorddave

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2010, 04:01:32 PM »
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When I walk off the edge of a chair and go into free fall while observing the surface of the earth carefully the earth appears to accelerate up towards me. What's the simplest explanation; that there exists hypothetical undiscovered Graviton particles emanating from the earth which allows them to accelerate my body towards the surface through unexplained quantum effects; or is the simplest explanation that this mysterious highly theoretical mechanism does not exist and the earth has just accelerated upwards towards me exactly as I've observed?

Why don't you feel a rush upwards when you hit the ground then? According to you, you're going down, the ground is coming up. You should feel a rush upwards then as you hit the ground.
You do. The air is accelerating at the same amount. You misunderstood their theory.

No, the ground rush up, not the air. Like a car crash- your body keeps going but you feel the impact when you hit the dashboard. It's hard to find a right analogy.

Well from what I gather FET has changed somewhat, so let's hear the new ideas why not?

God is the cheap answer, which is why every ancient civilization used it to answer things they couldn't understand. I'm catholic by the way, so we don't need to get into a theological discussion.

Well, if I'm right in my physics, every object pushes against every other object when they interact.  When you slam into a wall, for example, the wall pushes back.  That's why you don't go through it.  If you have enough force to overcome the ability of the wall to push you back, you break it.

A fall, either way you have the Earth pushing against you as you land.  You'll feel the sudden change in direction regardless of the cause of your downward movement.

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bloojax

Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2010, 04:05:52 PM »
A fall, either way you have the Earth pushing against you as you land.  You'll feel the sudden change in direction regardless of the cause of your downward movement.

YES! That was what I was trying to get at: the sudden change of direction. Thank you.

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2fst4u

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2010, 04:24:46 PM »
A fall, either way you have the Earth pushing against you as you land.  You'll feel the sudden change in direction regardless of the cause of your downward movement.

YES! That was what I was trying to get at: the sudden change of direction. Thank you.
You do. I can't believe you don't understand the concept. Just trust me, whether the earth is going up, or you're going down, the same effect occurs.

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bloojax

Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2010, 04:33:36 PM »
A fall, either way you have the Earth pushing against you as you land.  You'll feel the sudden change in direction regardless of the cause of your downward movement.

YES! That was what I was trying to get at: the sudden change of direction. Thank you.
You do. I can't believe you don't understand the concept. Just trust me, whether the earth is going up, or you're going down, the same effect occurs.

But if you're going down at a slower rate, which I imagine is what would happen, than the earth is going up, you'd feel the difference. Because it isn't a moving object hitting a stationary one; both are moving in opposite directions. Like when you jump in an elevator: there's that force in your knees and stomach when you land because the elevator is going up and you're going down.

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Lorddave

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2010, 05:02:44 PM »
A fall, either way you have the Earth pushing against you as you land.  You'll feel the sudden change in direction regardless of the cause of your downward movement.

YES! That was what I was trying to get at: the sudden change of direction. Thank you.
You do. I can't believe you don't understand the concept. Just trust me, whether the earth is going up, or you're going down, the same effect occurs.

But if you're going down at a slower rate, which I imagine is what would happen, than the earth is going up, you'd feel the difference. Because it isn't a moving object hitting a stationary one; both are moving in opposite directions. Like when you jump in an elevator: there's that force in your knees and stomach when you land because the elevator is going up and you're going down.

That's only the force you feel being greater than what you're used too.  ie. it would be like if someone suddenly turned up gravity just a little but as you landed.

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2fst4u

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2010, 05:12:29 PM »
A fall, either way you have the Earth pushing against you as you land.  You'll feel the sudden change in direction regardless of the cause of your downward movement.

YES! That was what I was trying to get at: the sudden change of direction. Thank you.
You do. I can't believe you don't understand the concept. Just trust me, whether the earth is going up, or you're going down, the same effect occurs.

But if you're going down at a slower rate, which I imagine is what would happen, than the earth is going up, you'd feel the difference. Because it isn't a moving object hitting a stationary one; both are moving in opposite directions. Like when you jump in an elevator: there's that force in your knees and stomach when you land because the elevator is going up and you're going down.
You're an idiot. Earth going up, and you going down either or at 9 m/s/s is the same thing.

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Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2010, 07:44:47 PM »
Occam's Razor is useless due to the fact it can be changed with simple wordplay.

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Drdevice

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2010, 08:34:36 PM »
Thank you bejamin. Mind if I quote you should this arise again?

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Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2010, 08:45:46 PM »
Thank you bejamin. Mind if I quote you should this arise again?
I'm Benjamin Franklin, I'm used to being quoted.

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Misterkami

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2010, 02:09:34 AM »
Thank you bejamin. Mind if I quote you should this arise again?
I'm Benjamin Franklin, I'm used to being quoted.
Even though Occham's Razor has it's uses.. especially when the number of assumptions for one theory is so much bigger than the other.. it is not flawless.. good idea to dismiss it

and I gotta say you got a nice sense of humour!
~No Ordinary Moments~

Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2010, 04:07:13 AM »
A fall, either way you have the Earth pushing against you as you land.  You'll feel the sudden change in direction regardless of the cause of your downward movement.

YES! That was what I was trying to get at: the sudden change of direction. Thank you.
You do. I can't believe you don't understand the concept. Just trust me, whether the earth is going up, or you're going down, the same effect occurs.

But if you're going down at a slower rate, which I imagine is what would happen, than the earth is going up, you'd feel the difference. Because it isn't a moving object hitting a stationary one; both are moving in opposite directions. Like when you jump in an elevator: there's that force in your knees and stomach when you land because the elevator is going up and you're going down.

Here, get this.
"We know that the sun is 93 million miles away and takes up 5 degrees of the sky.

Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2010, 10:23:54 AM »
they dont understand the concept of acceleration

For example, have you ever been in a car accelerating at 9.8m/s2?

imagine being hit by one such car, it probably wouldnt do anything unless you wated a long time, which you could do by being a long distance away.  Similar to the FE model of the earth, of "falling" down from a long height, you definitely will feel the impact of sudden change in motion.  On the FE earth, as long as you are on it, you are moving the same speed UNTILL you lose contact. 

Of course, this would not apply to the RE earth because gravity is the explanation used, and not a constantly accelerating plane.

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SupahLovah

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2010, 10:29:04 AM »
It's either:
a: you are falling down and earth is stationary OR
b: you are stationary and the earth is moving up.

It's not both, dingus.
"Study Gravitation; It's a field with a lot of potential!"

Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2010, 10:43:57 AM »
Occam's Razor is useless due to the fact it can be changed with simple wordplay.

Occam's Razor is a lot more sound than induction.

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jtelroy

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2010, 09:27:58 AM »
I don't think the EA really follows Occam's razor.

It is just as theoretical, unobserved, and unstudied as the graviton.

So at the very least, the two theoretical masses are equal in their quality as given by Occam's razor.

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Anteater7171

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2010, 12:54:14 PM »
Occam's Razor is useless due to the fact it can be changed with simple wordplay.

Occam's Razor is a lot more sound than induction.

How so?
I don't remember anything. Well, I do, but it's really vague. Like I was on drugs the whole time.

Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2010, 03:33:38 PM »
Occam's Razor is useless due to the fact it can be changed with simple wordplay.

Occam's Razor is a lot more sound than induction.

How so?

Induction is the stupid idea that everything will continue to happen the same way, Occams razom it extrapolating by trying to build a (simple as possible) explanation of something. A turkey using induction would think that because it's been fed every day for the whole year that today (christmas) it will be fed again but the occams razor turkey knows it wil get its head cut off because it's figured out that the only reason it gets fed is so its fat.