Is the ice wall a wall?

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markjo

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Is the ice wall a wall?
« on: March 14, 2010, 12:10:52 PM »
and nor did I observe a gigantic 150ft wall of ice surrounding the world.

You consider 150 feet tall to be "gigantic"?  ???

You consider a glacier to be an "ice wall"?  ???
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Is the ice wall a wall?
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2010, 12:19:03 PM »
and nor did I observe a gigantic 150ft wall of ice surrounding the world.

You consider 150 feet tall to be "gigantic"?  ???

You consider a glacier to be an "ice wall"?  ???

It's a barrier; thus, a wall.  Pretty elementary; of course, you already knew that, having been here for so long, but I guess I can't really vouch for you ability to understand it.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Xibar

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Is the ice wall a wall?
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2010, 12:35:32 PM »
I've actually been on a boat touring down to Antarctica, and I can say that I did not observe the end of the world, and nor did I observe a gigantic 150ft wall of ice surrounding the world.

How did you avoid the continual gunfire of all the armed guards along the wall? Surely you now present a wrench in the gears of the conspiracy.

Tread lightly, my friend. All of the governments of the world are now looking for you.

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markjo

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Is the ice wall a wall?
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2010, 03:03:00 PM »
It's a barrier; thus, a wall.

Barriers are not necessarily walls.


Pretty elementary; of course, you already knew that, having been here for so long, but I guess I can't really vouch for you ability to understand it.

Ditto.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Is the ice wall a wall?
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2010, 03:16:07 PM »
It's a barrier; thus, a wall.

Barriers are not necessarily walls.

Quote
Main Entry: 1wall
Pronunciation: \ˈwȯl\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English weall; akin to Middle High German wall; both from Latin vallum rampart, from vallus stake, palisade; perhaps akin to Old Norse vǫlr staff ? more at wale
Date: before 12th century

1 a : a high thick masonry structure forming a long rampart or an enclosure chiefly for defense ?often used in plural b : a masonry fence around a garden, park, or estate c : a structure that serves to hold back pressure (as of water or sliding earth)
2 : one of the sides of a room or building connecting floor and ceiling or foundation and roof
3 : the side of a footpath next to buildings
4 : an extreme or desperate position or a state of defeat, failure, or ruin <the surrounded troops had their backs against the wall> <small companies driven to the wall>
5 : a material layer enclosing space <the wall of a container> <heart walls>
6 : something resembling a wall (as in appearance, function, or effect); especially : something that acts as a barrier or defense <a wall of reserve> <tariff wall>

Sorry, man.  You can try arguing semantics all you want, but unfortunately Merriam-Webster is against you.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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2fst4u

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Is the ice wall a wall?
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2010, 03:22:23 PM »
Quote
6 : something resembling a wall (as in appearance, function, or effect); especially : something that acts as a barrier or defense <a wall of reserve> <tariff wall>
He's still right.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Is the ice wall a wall?
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2010, 03:23:04 PM »
Quote
6 : something resembling a wall (as in appearance, function, or effect); especially : something that acts as a barrier or defense <a wall of reserve> <tariff wall>
He's still right.
No he's not.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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2fst4u

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Is the ice wall a wall?
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2010, 03:24:30 PM »
Yes he is. You own definition says a barrier does not need to be a wall, only resemble it in it's function.

Is the ice wall a wall?
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2010, 03:33:43 PM »
Last I knew, there was nothing in the definition of a planet or moon that requires them to support life.

No, certainly not; but that's not the issue. The issue is that we can't point to the heavenly bodies as evidence of the nature of earth, because the earth is different and unique: the two are not equal. One of those ways is the fact that it supports life, while the others we observe are lifeless and dead.  If we assume that the earth is no different than the rest, and draw the conclusion that it must be spherical because we observe the other heavenly bodies to be, then we would also have to draw the conclusion that, because they are lifeless, so is the earth.  Yet we know this is not the case, because we exist. If we exist, then the earth is indeed different; therefore, it is the height of foolishness to determine the nature of the earth by looking at things that are contrary to the nature of earth. We might as well assume that a frog has wings by looking at a bird.

There is no relativity of perspective because this is our only perspective and our only source of origin. Anything else is hypothetical and nothing more than a thought experiment that is not grounded in reality.

Yes we can point to other celestial bodies as evidence of the nature of earth...  We have found numerous similarities in composition between earth and the other terrestrial planets.  We've done this through spectroscopy, you do not have to actually go there to observe a celestial bodies' composition.  Your assumptions are baseless... you can still be a planet and support life; furthermore the ability to support life is irrelevant to a bodies' geometry... rather it is a combination of temperature, atmosphere and water.  Just because 2 objects have a similarity does not mean they must be the same entirely... which is exactly what you are implying.  Just because we see these other planets and moons are lifeless does not mean that being a sphere would give indication to this... this is the foolish mistake of assuming correlations...

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markjo

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Is the ice wall a wall?
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2010, 03:42:37 PM »
It's a barrier; thus, a wall.

Barriers are not necessarily walls.

Quote
Main Entry: 1wall
Pronunciation: \?wo?l\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English weall; akin to Middle High German wall; both from Latin vallum rampart, from vallus stake, palisade; perhaps akin to Old Norse vo?lr staff ? more at wale
Date: before 12th century

1 a : a high thick masonry structure forming a long rampart or an enclosure chiefly for defense ?often used in plural b : a masonry fence around a garden, park, or estate c : a structure that serves to hold back pressure (as of water or sliding earth)
2 : one of the sides of a room or building connecting floor and ceiling or foundation and roof
3 : the side of a footpath next to buildings
4 : an extreme or desperate position or a state of defeat, failure, or ruin <the surrounded troops had their backs against the wall> <small companies driven to the wall>
5 : a material layer enclosing space <the wall of a container> <heart walls>
6 : something resembling a wall (as in appearance, function, or effect); especially : something that acts as a barrier or defense <a wall of reserve> <tariff wall>

Sorry, man.  You can try arguing semantics all you want, but unfortunately Merriam-Webster is against you.

What about definitions 1-5, or don't they count?  A fence is a barrier but is not a wall.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Is the ice wall a wall?
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2010, 05:15:30 PM »
Yes he is. You own definition says a barrier does not need to be a wall, only resemble it in it's function.

Exactly.  Since the ice wall resembles a wall in function (actually effect), it fits the dictionary definition of a wall.  So markjo was incorrect from the start by asserting that the phrase "ice wall" is in any way an inaccurate designation.

What about definitions 1-5, or don't they count?

No.  They are irrelevant.  As long as just one definition of the word matches our description the other definitions simply don't matter.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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markjo

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Is the ice wall a wall?
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2010, 05:52:53 PM »
What about definitions 1-5, or don't they count?

No.  They are irrelevant.  As long as just one definition of the word matches our description the other definitions simply don't matter.

So what makes you think that the definition that you chose was the relevant one?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Is the ice wall a wall?
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2010, 05:55:27 PM »
What about definitions 1-5, or don't they count?

No.  They are irrelevant.  As long as just one definition of the word matches our description the other definitions simply don't matter.

So what makes you think that the definition that you chose was the relevant one?

Well, because it's the one that matches our description of the ice wall.  Again that should be pretty obvious.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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markjo

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Re: Is the ice wall a wall?
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2010, 06:50:19 PM »
So what makes you think that the definition that you chose was the relevant one?

Well, because it's the one that matches our description of the ice wall.  Again that should be pretty obvious.

Quote from: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/barrier
Main Entry: bar·ri·er
Pronunciation: \?ber-?-?r, ?ba-r?-\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English barrere, from Anglo-French, from barre bar
Date: 14th century

1 a : something material that blocks or is intended to block passage <highway barriers> <a barrier contraceptive> b : a natural formation or structure that prevents or hinders movement or action <geographic barriers to species dissemination> <barrier beaches> <drugs that cross the placental barrier>
2 plural often capitalized : a medieval war game in which combatants fight on foot with a fence or railing between them
3 : something immaterial that impedes or separates : obstacle <behavioral barriers> <trade

I'm sorry, but which definition of barrier states that it has to be a wall?  Remember, you are the one that said that because the ice wall is a barrier, therefore it's a wall.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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bloojax

Re: Is the ice wall a wall?
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2010, 07:04:11 PM »
You, know, if we're going by the dictionary now...

Quote
earth? ?/?r?/  Show Spelled[urth]  Show IPA
–noun
1.(often initial capital letter) the planet third in order from the sun, having an equatorial diameter of 7926 mi. (12,755 km) and a polar diameter of 7900 mi. (12,714 km), a mean distance from the sun of 92.9 million mi. (149.6 million km), and a period of revolution of 365.26 days, and having one satellite.
2.the inhabitants of this planet, esp. the human inhabitants: The whole earth rejoiced.
3.this planet as the habitation of humans, often in contrast to heaven and hell: to create a hell on earth.
4.the surface of this planet: to fall to earth.
5.the solid matter of this planet; dry land; ground.
6.soil and dirt, as distinguished from rock and sand; the softer part of the land.
7.the hole of a burrowing animal; lair.
8.Chemistry. any of several metallic oxides that are difficult to reduce, as alumina, zirconia, and yttria.Compare alkaline earth, rare earth.
9.Also called earth color. Fine Arts. any of various pigments consisting chiefly of iron oxides and tending toward brown in hue.
10.Chiefly British Electronics. a ground.
11.Archaic. a land or country.
–verb (used with object)
12.Chiefly British Electronics. to ground.
—Idioms
13.move heaven and earth. heaven (def. 7).
14.on earth, in the world: Where on earth have you been?
15.run to earth,
a.Hunting. to chase (an animal) into its hole or burrow: to run a fox to earth.
b.to search out; track down: They ran the fugitive to earth in Algiers.
Use earth in a Sentence
See images of earth
Search earth on the Web

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Origin:
bef. 950; ME erthe, OE eorthe; c. G Erde, D aarde, ON j?rth, Dan jord, Goth airtha


—Synonyms
3. Earth, globe, world are terms applied to the planet on which we dwell. Earth is used esp. in speaking of a condition of existence contrasted with that in heaven or hell: those who are yet on earth. Globe formerly emphasized merely the roundness of the earth: to circumnavigate the globe. It is now used more like world, with especial application to the inhabitants of the earth and their activities, interests, and concerns. In this sense, both globe and world are more inclusive than earth and are used more abstractly: the politics of the globe; the future of the world; One World.


just sayin

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bloojax

Re: Is the ice wall a wall?
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2010, 07:09:19 PM »
Actually...

It's a barrier; thus, a wall.

Barriers are not necessarily walls.

Quote
Main Entry: 1wall
Pronunciation: \?wo?l\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English weall; akin to Middle High German wall; both from Latin vallum rampart, from vallus stake, palisade; perhaps akin to Old Norse vo?lr staff ? more at wale
Date: before 12th century

1 a : a high thick masonry structure forming a long rampart or an enclosure chiefly for defense ?often used in plural b : a masonry fence around a garden, park, or estate c : a structure that serves to hold back pressure (as of water or sliding earth)
2 : one of the sides of a room or building connecting floor and ceiling or foundation and roof
3 : the side of a footpath next to buildings
4 : an extreme or desperate position or a state of defeat, failure, or ruin <the surrounded troops had their backs against the wall> <small companies driven to the wall>
5 : a material layer enclosing space <the wall of a container> <heart walls>
6 : something resembling a wall (as in appearance, function, or effect); especially : something that acts as a barrier or defense <a wall of reserve> <tariff wall>

Sorry, man.  You can try arguing semantics all you want, but unfortunately Merriam-Webster is against you.

Quote
Main Entry: 1earth
Pronunciation: \??rth\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English erthe, from Old English eorthe; akin to Old High German erda earth, Greek era
Date: before 12th century
1 : the fragmental material composing part of the surface of the globe; especially : cultivable soil
2 : the sphere of mortal life as distinguished from spheres of spirit life — compare heaven, hell
3 a : areas of land as distinguished from sea and air b : the solid footing formed of soil : ground
4 often capitalized : the planet on which we live that is third in order from the sun — see planet table
5 a : the people of the planet Earth b : the mortal human body c : the pursuits, interests, and pleasures of earthly life as distinguished from spiritual concerns
6 : the lair of a burrowing animal
7 : an excessive amount of money —used with the <real suede, which costs the earth to clean — Joanne Winship>

— earth·like  \-?l?k\ adjective

— on earth —used as an intensive <to find out what on earth he was up to — Michael Holroyd

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Is the ice wall a wall?
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2010, 07:16:00 PM »
So what makes you think that the definition that you chose was the relevant one?

Well, because it's the one that matches our description of the ice wall.  Again that should be pretty obvious.

Quote from: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/barrier
Main Entry: bar·ri·er
Pronunciation: \?ber-?-?r, ?ba-r?-\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English barrere, from Anglo-French, from barre bar
Date: 14th century

1 a : something material that blocks or is intended to block passage <highway barriers> <a barrier contraceptive> b : a natural formation or structure that prevents or hinders movement or action <geographic barriers to species dissemination> <barrier beaches> <drugs that cross the placental barrier>
2 plural often capitalized : a medieval war game in which combatants fight on foot with a fence or railing between them
3 : something immaterial that impedes or separates : obstacle <behavioral barriers> <trade

I'm sorry, but which definition of barrier states that it has to be a wall?  Remember, you are the one that said that because the ice wall is a barrier, therefore it's a wall.

Well, I can see you're intentionally trying to be pedantic, and probably obtuse, too.  A barrier doesn't have to be a wall.  A barrier that stretches around the Earth and walls in the world's oceans fits the definition of a wall, though.  That's all that matters.  You can see that definition 1 clearly includes walls within its description; a wall is one type of material object that blocks passage.  That's what the ice wall does.

Nowhere in this thread do I state that a barrier must be a wall.  But a barrier that fits the definition of a wall, obviously, must be a wall.  So fine, I'll concede that the statement "It's a barrier; thus a wall" was incomplete.  The accurate thing to have said would have been "It's a barrier that performs the function of a wall; thus a wall."  I'm glad I have you around to point out these little insignificant semantic issues.

As an aside, I guess, this discussion started with you attempting to make the point that what we call the ice wall isn't really a wall.  Is this attempt at derailing that particular discussion a tacit concession that you were wrong?  ???
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

Re: Is the ice wall a wall?
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2010, 07:50:02 PM »
So what makes you think that the definition that you chose was the relevant one?

Well, because it's the one that matches our description of the ice wall.  Again that should be pretty obvious.

Quote from: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/barrier
Main Entry: bar·ri·er
Pronunciation: \?ber-?-?r, ?ba-r?-\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English barrere, from Anglo-French, from barre bar
Date: 14th century

1 a : something material that blocks or is intended to block passage <highway barriers> <a barrier contraceptive> b : a natural formation or structure that prevents or hinders movement or action <geographic barriers to species dissemination> <barrier beaches> <drugs that cross the placental barrier>
2 plural often capitalized : a medieval war game in which combatants fight on foot with a fence or railing between them
3 : something immaterial that impedes or separates : obstacle <behavioral barriers> <trade

I'm sorry, but which definition of barrier states that it has to be a wall?  Remember, you are the one that said that because the ice wall is a barrier, therefore it's a wall.

Well, I can see you're intentionally trying to be pedantic, and probably obtuse, too.  A barrier doesn't have to be a wall.  A barrier that stretches around the Earth and walls in the world's oceans fits the definition of a wall, though.  That's all that matters.  You can see that definition 1 clearly includes walls within its description; a wall is one type of material object that blocks passage.  That's what the ice wall does.

Nowhere in this thread do I state that a barrier must be a wall.  But a barrier that fits the definition of a wall, obviously, must be a wall.  So fine, I'll concede that the statement "It's a barrier; thus a wall" was incomplete.  The accurate thing to have said would have been "It's a barrier that performs the function of a wall; thus a wall."  I'm glad I have you around to point out these little insignificant semantic issues.

As an aside, I guess, this discussion started with you attempting to make the point that what we call the ice wall isn't really a wall.  Is this attempt at derailing that particular discussion a tacit concession that you were wrong?  ???

I agree with you Roundy. Ice Wall should be a title, not a name.

For example, an objectivist is a person who believe in endeavoring to objectively assess the issue. Alternatively an Objectivist is a person who believes in the government and personal philosophies of Ayn Rand. Capitalization matters.

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Crustinator

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Re: Is the ice wall a wall?
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2010, 08:11:09 PM »
You are not arguing semantics. I will now argue semantics. I will quote a source that contracts me.

Cool.

PS a 150ft barrier isn't much of a barrier given that most cities have buildings many times that size.

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Re: Is the ice wall a wall?
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2010, 11:42:48 PM »
You are not arguing semantics. I will now argue semantics. I will quote a source that contracts me.

Cool.

PS a 150ft barrier isn't much of a barrier given that most cities have buildings many times that size.
yeah, but buildings don't have a circumference of 39,000 miles.

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2fst4u

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Re: Is the ice wall a wall?
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2010, 12:12:18 AM »
You are not arguing semantics. I will now argue semantics. I will quote a source that contracts me.

Cool.

PS a 150ft barrier isn't much of a barrier given that most cities have buildings many times that size.
yeah, but buildings don't have a circumference of 39,000 miles.
Neither does earth.

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Re: Is the ice wall a wall?
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2010, 12:32:17 AM »
You are not arguing semantics. I will now argue semantics. I will quote a source that contracts me.

Cool.

PS a 150ft barrier isn't much of a barrier given that most cities have buildings many times that size.
yeah, but buildings don't have a circumference of 39,000 miles.
Neither does earth.
You're right. I'm sorry. It's twice that value, namely, 78,000 miles.

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2fst4u

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Re: Is the ice wall a wall?
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2010, 12:41:13 AM »
Prove it.

Re: Is the ice wall a wall?
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2010, 01:57:28 AM »
Why have we never really seen a photograph of an ice wall? Even the most secured secrets of the World sometimes has its own photograph on the Internet -- or at least a footage.

They also said that Mars actually has an atmosphere -- that is, assuming that FEers believe that Mars does exist -- and the NASA kept this fact from the public. They have a photograph showing that the atmosphere is blue from the Landers, but they edited it to be orange and iron-oxide looking. Now, that secret is not my point here, but that secrets surely has clues, photographic clues, visual clues. In this case I am not talking about the Flat Earth, but about the Ice Wall you people claimed to be around.
No matter how good you may think your theory is, it doesn't disprove anything. You need evidence to do that.

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Re: Is the ice wall a wall?
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2010, 02:05:59 AM »
Prove it.
There's nothing to prove if you accept the distance from the North Pole to the Ice Wall to be around 12,000 miles.

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markjo

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Re: Is the ice wall a wall?
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2010, 09:44:25 AM »
As an aside, I guess, this discussion started with you attempting to make the point that what we call the ice wall isn't really a wall.  Is this attempt at derailing that particular discussion a tacit concession that you were wrong?  ???

Not at all.  What I'm trying to do is to force you (and other FE'ers) to explore the true nature of a major tenant of FE theory that you otherwise take for granted, that is the true nature of the "Ice Wall".
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Is the ice wall a wall?
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2010, 05:05:36 PM »
As an aside, I guess, this discussion started with you attempting to make the point that what we call the ice wall isn't really a wall.  Is this attempt at derailing that particular discussion a tacit concession that you were wrong?  ???

Not at all.  What I'm trying to do is to force you (and other FE'ers) to explore the true nature of a major tenant of FE theory that you otherwise take for granted, that is the true nature of the "Ice Wall".

So what's your point?
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

Re: Is the ice wall a wall?
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2010, 08:03:50 PM »
So no picture?
No matter how good you may think your theory is, it doesn't disprove anything. You need evidence to do that.

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Mr Pseudonym

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Why do we fall back to earth? Because our weight pushes us down, no laws, no gravity pulling us. It is the law of intelligence.