Questions and issues with the FET

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Feylin

Questions and issues with the FET
« on: March 09, 2010, 06:33:33 PM »
1. How do satellites remain in orbit around a flat plane.

2. How does atmosphere remain on the flat plane if it has no gravity. In fact, how does the atmosphere not stay contained in the flat plane in any matter?

3. How come people can fly in one direction and cross the flat world.

4. How come we can measure the depth of the world, and figure out that we have a molten core.

5. How come we can produce shock waves on one side of the world and measure it on the other side.

6. How come the said shock waves can be proven and tested to have traveled through X dense materials and objects (IE: Proving layers, the core, etc in our spherical world)

7. How can gravity not exist when we can calculate and measure the gravity of small objects and apply as well as measure and observe the gravitational force in extreme small scale.

8. How come FET contradicts most of modern physics as we know it.

9. How come we have a north and south pole at opposite polar ends if the world is flat

10. How come we can observe the flat earth

11. How come you can observe the curvature of the earth in high altitude vehicles (IE: The commercial Concorde when it was still in use)

12. How come Space agencies exist

13. Why aren't other planets flat

14. If we perpetually accelerate 9.8m/s upwards what is causing this

15. How come the stars move across the sky in a fashion that supports a round earth

16. How come most of modern physics contradicts with the FE theory

17. How does most of modern astronomy, space travel, star gazing work when it relies heavily on the concept of a spherical earth, gravity, etc.

18. Why does summer in the arctic or antarctic suggest that the earth is spherical

19. How come only parts of the globe are illuminated at a time

20. How come nobody has ever discovered this wall of ice surrounding the flat earth

21. If the world is flat how come we've never observed this.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2010, 06:37:42 PM by Feylin »

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Questions and issues with the FET
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2010, 07:26:24 PM »
Please read the FAQ.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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2fst4u

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Re: Questions and issues with the FET
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2010, 07:30:50 PM »
Please read the FAQ.
Hardly any of his questions are answered in the FAQ. How do you expect people to take you seriously?

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Questions and issues with the FET
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2010, 07:32:43 PM »
Please read the FAQ.
Hardly any of his questions are answered in the FAQ. How do you expect people to take you seriously?

When the first question is clearly answered in the FAQ I tend to just stop reading and tell the poster to read the FAQ.  If he still has any questions after having read it I'll gladly answer them.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Questions and issues with the FET
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2010, 07:59:00 PM »
Please read the FAQ.
Hardly any of his questions are answered in the FAQ. How do you expect people to take you seriously?

Some of his questions aren't answered in the FAQ, but several of them are.  You shouldn't really start asking questions until you've read it.

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Thomas

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Re: Questions and issues with the FET
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2010, 09:39:00 PM »
1. How do satellites remain in orbit around a flat plane.

Satellites with sustained orbit do not exist. The signals picked up by them are from broadcasting towers or pseudolites.

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2. How does atmosphere remain on the flat plane if it has no gravity. In fact, how does the atmosphere not stay contained in the flat plane in any matter?

There are a few different ideas regarding this matter.  In the general model which posits dark energy, there exists a dark energy vector field (DEF) which prevents dark energy from interacting with matter on earth. This also keeps the atmolayer in place.

In McIntyre model, the Ice Wall increases in height toward the edge of the earth, and it is this containment which keeps the atmolayer in place.

If the earth is an infinite plane, as posited by John Davis, I would suppose the atmolayer is kept in place by the finite gravitational field caused by the earth's mass, and the fact that there simply isn't anywhere else it could go.  As you move away from the sun's heat and over the Ice Wall, temperature and thus pressure begin to gradually decrease until near absolute zero is reached. Gravity and this pressure boundary on the infinite earth would most likely suffice to keep the atmolayer in place.

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3. How come people can fly in one direction and cross the flat world.

If one were to use a compass, then all directions are relative to the North-South poles of the magnetic field. If one were to travel due east, for instance, this would result in travelling in a circle around the north pole. This is circumnavigation, and is certainly possible on a flat earth.

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4. How come we can measure the depth of the world, and figure out that we have a molten core.

Because the earth is thick enough to have a core of molten lava.

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5. How come we can produce shock waves on one side of the world and measure it on the other side.

Who said the shockwaves are coming from an antipodal region of the world? Instruments and those who operate them can be very deceptive.

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7. How can gravity not exist when we can calculate and measure the gravity of small objects and apply as well as measure and observe the gravitational force in extreme small scale.

Under the General Model, apparent gravity is simply the upward acceleration of the earth at a rate of 9.8m/s^2. Under the Davis model, there is a finite gravitational pull generated by the mass of the infinite earth plane.

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8. How come FET contradicts most of modern physics as we know it.

And "modern physics as we know it" can't possibly be mistaken?  "Modern" science also posited caloric, frigidic, luminiferous ether, and bodily humours as well. These are all discredited.

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9. How come we have a north and south pole at opposite polar ends if the world is flat

The magnetic field is the same as in the RET. The magnetic south pole is near the geographic north pole. The magnetic north pole is on the underside of the flat earth.

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10. How come we can observe the flat earth

Because the earth is flat. This is self-evident.

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11. How come you can observe the curvature of the earth in high altitude vehicles (IE: The commercial Concorde when it was still in use)

The apparent curvature is an optical illusion caused by perspective, and the apparent spherical nature of the earth plane from extremely high altitudes is due to the sun's light illuminating a portion of the earth's plane, giving the illusion of rising in a semi-spherical manner.

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12. How come Space agencies exist

Some posit that they are a scheme to bilk the government for personal gain.

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13. Why aren't other planets flat

Why don't zebras have flippers?

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14. If we perpetually accelerate 9.8m/s upwards what is causing this

The universal acceleration is due to dark energy under the General Model. In the McIntyre model, it is caused by the universal accelerator directly beneath the earth.

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15. How come the stars move across the sky in a fashion that supports a round earth

Because the motions of the heavens are mistaken for the apparent motion of a spherical earth. Other anomalies are caused by the distortion of light and other laws of perspective.

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16. How come most of modern physics contradicts with the FE theory

Modern physics is mistaken.

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17. How does most of modern astronomy, space travel, star gazing work when it relies heavily on the concept of a spherical earth, gravity, etc.

We can create a plethora of hypothetical models that conform to observable phenomena, but that doesn't mean that such a purely mathematical model is based in reality.

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18. Why does summer in the arctic or antarctic suggest that the earth is spherical

Because you've misunderstood natural phenomena to support the RET.

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19. How come only parts of the globe are illuminated at a time

Because the sun only illuminates certain parts of the earth disk at a time, in accordance with its seasonal cycles above the earth plane.

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20. How come nobody has ever discovered this wall of ice surrounding the flat earth

Who says they haven't?

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21. If the world is flat how come we've never observed this.

I'm observing it right now.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2010, 06:58:45 AM by Thomas »
"A procession of the damned. By the damned, I mean the excluded. We shall have a procession of data that Science has excluded. Battalions of the accursed, captained by pallid data that I have exhumed, will march. You'll read them -- or they'll march." - Charles Fort

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jimspade

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Re: Questions and issues with the FET
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2010, 02:37:30 AM »
Thomas your responses are baseless at best. Pathetic at worst. Props to you for actually answering them all though.

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13. Why aren't other planets flat

Why don't zebras have flippers?

This is the worst answer of them all. THe other planets are obviously spherical. This is evidence of a gravitational force that exists without the constant acceleration theory. The many moons around many other planets are evidence that orbit is possible. Yet why is earth different? Why do we require the acceleration from dark energy to explain gravity, Why are we not affected by the same gravity as all the other celestial bodies? What makes you think our moon is different to ALL the other planets moons. Saying these things are so because FE requires them to be so is not an adaquete answer, especially since FE is far from proven. Most FE arguments are quite circular...(Spherical) :P

It was Tom Bishop that said those ridiculous things, he is the ultimate foe in regards to FE trolls.

Re: Questions and issues with the FET
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2010, 12:52:44 PM »
Thomas your responses are baseless at best. Pathetic at worst. Props to you for actually answering them all though.

Quote
13. Why aren't other planets flat

Why don't zebras have flippers?

This is the worst answer of them all. THe other planets are obviously spherical. This is evidence of a gravitational force that exists without the constant acceleration theory. The many moons around many other planets are evidence that orbit is possible. Yet why is earth different? Why do we require the acceleration from dark energy to explain gravity, Why are we not affected by the same gravity as all the other celestial bodies? What makes you think our moon is different to ALL the other planets moons. Saying these things are so because FE requires them to be so is not an adaquete answer, especially since FE is far from proven. Most FE arguments are quite circular...(Spherical) :P



i've always wondered this to =).  I've asked, but never got it answered =D  but that was a logn time ago.  The only answer they explain is that "earth is not like the other planets".  Except, we know what the planets are made of, and we can find identical materials on earth.

EDIT: also, zebras do have flippers, they use it to walk though, since the bone sizes are suited to do so =)
« Last Edit: March 11, 2010, 12:58:17 PM by brathearon »

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Questions and issues with the FET
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2010, 06:36:07 PM »
i've always wondered this to =).  I've asked, but never got it answered =D  but that was a logn time ago.  The only answer they explain is that "earth is not like the other planets".  Except, we know what the planets are made of, and we can find identical materials on earth.

I see; so since me and my dog are both made of identical materials, and I can talk, so can my dog!  Swell logic, I'm gonna try to teach him now!
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

Re: Questions and issues with the FET
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2010, 07:46:17 PM »
i've always wondered this to =).  I've asked, but never got it answered =D  but that was a logn time ago.  The only answer they explain is that "earth is not like the other planets".  Except, we know what the planets are made of, and we can find identical materials on earth.

I see; so since me and my dog are both made of identical materials, and I can talk, so can my dog!  Swell logic, I'm gonna try to teach him now!

dogs make noise in a similar manner that you do.  It is swell logic.  You'd be surprised at how similar you can be. 
Also, are you suggesting that the chemical structures are what makes the planets be able to have a gravitational pull?  If thats the case, why havent we seen/reconstructed any of them?  Celestial objects have come to earth before, where did these compounds go?

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Questions and issues with the FET
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2010, 07:48:20 PM »
dogs make noise in a similar manner that you do.  It is swell logic.  You'd be surprised at how similar you can be.  

I'm not talking about "making similar sounds".  That's just mimicry.  You can teach a bird to do that, lol.  Your logic implies that since my dog and myself are made of identical materials, we should be able to converse with each other.  Alas, I've still never met a talking dog.  :(
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Thomas

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Re: Questions and issues with the FET
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2010, 09:49:50 PM »
Thomas your responses are baseless at best. Pathetic at worst. Props to you for actually answering them all though.

He asked specific questions regarding FET, and I replied with specific answers that answered those questions.  If you're so vehemently opposed to FET that you can't tolerate its ideas being discussed or inquirers' questions answered, you're in the wrong forum. ;)
"A procession of the damned. By the damned, I mean the excluded. We shall have a procession of data that Science has excluded. Battalions of the accursed, captained by pallid data that I have exhumed, will march. You'll read them -- or they'll march." - Charles Fort

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jimspade

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Re: Questions and issues with the FET
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2010, 10:57:00 PM »
If you're so vehemently opposed to FET that you can't tolerate its ideas being discussed or inquirers' questions answered, you're in the wrong forum. ;)
Why don't zebras have flippers?
It was Tom Bishop that said those ridiculous things, he is the ultimate foe in regards to FE trolls.

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Thomas

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Re: Questions and issues with the FET
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2010, 06:31:24 AM »
If you're so vehemently opposed to FET that you can't tolerate its ideas being discussed or inquirers' questions answered, you're in the wrong forum. ;)
Why don't zebras have flippers?

It makes as much sense as the previous question of asking why, if the observable heavenly bodies are round, is the earth flat.  The earth is not the heavenly bodies, and there is no reason why the one should mimic the others.  It's like asking, "Why do dolphins have flippers, but zebras don't?"  Because a zebra isn't a dolphin.

When the same questions are asked repeatedly ad nauseum, and are also answered clearly in the FAQ, and even more clearly in the Wiki and Library that no one bothered to spend ten minutes reading, it helps to have a sense of humor.  It reduces the bitterness and cynicism that certain other RE'ers so perfectly exemplify.

You may not like the theories and models referenced to answer these questions, but that's irrelevant. There's a reason this is called the Flat Earth Society.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 07:33:18 AM by Thomas »
"A procession of the damned. By the damned, I mean the excluded. We shall have a procession of data that Science has excluded. Battalions of the accursed, captained by pallid data that I have exhumed, will march. You'll read them -- or they'll march." - Charles Fort

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markjo

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Re: Questions and issues with the FET
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2010, 11:23:14 AM »
It makes as much sense as the previous question of asking why, if the observable heavenly bodies are round, is the earth flat.  The earth is not the heavenly bodies, and there is no reason why the one should mimic the others.

Actually, that would depend on your perspective.  If you were standing on the moon, then the earth would be a heavenly body.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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Drdevice

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Re: Questions and issues with the FET
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2010, 12:24:06 PM »
*Slaps his own face*
"But we've never been to the moon."
"space does not exsist"
"The other planets are just points of light that race around the sky"
"blah blah blah the earth is flat blah blah blah bendy light, blah blah blah your wrong."

There I have compleated this argument for the next two years.

Edit* I'm sorry I frogot some people.

"Nitpick"

"It is clearly countered in EnaG"
« Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 12:34:19 PM by Drdevice »

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Thomas

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Re: Questions and issues with the FET
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2010, 12:30:24 PM »
Actually, that would depend on your perspective.  If you were standing on the moon, then the earth would be a heavenly body.

But we're not standing on the moon. We're standing on the earth because the moon and the other heavenly bodies do not support life; hence, another demonstration of why earth is different and can't be compared in a meaningful way with the others.
"A procession of the damned. By the damned, I mean the excluded. We shall have a procession of data that Science has excluded. Battalions of the accursed, captained by pallid data that I have exhumed, will march. You'll read them -- or they'll march." - Charles Fort

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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Questions and issues with the FET
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2010, 12:39:17 PM »
Actually, that would depend on your perspective.  If you were standing on the moon, then the earth would be a heavenly body.

But we're not standing on the moon. We're standing on the earth because the moon and the other heavenly bodies do not support life; hence, another demonstration of why earth is different and can't be compared in a meaningful way with the others.
That's a very broad assumption.
I saw a slight haze in the hotel bathroom this morning after I took a shower, have I discovered a new planet?

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Weegee Board

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Re: Questions and issues with the FET
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2010, 12:47:15 PM »
Actually, that would depend on your perspective.  If you were standing on the moon, then the earth would be a heavenly body.

But we're not standing on the moon. We're standing on the earth because the moon and the other heavenly bodies do not support life; hence, another demonstration of why earth is different and can't be compared in a meaningful way with the others.
That's a very broad assumption.

Just like all of the ones that you make really.

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markjo

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Re: Questions and issues with the FET
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2010, 01:11:10 PM »
Actually, that would depend on your perspective.  If you were standing on the moon, then the earth would be a heavenly body.

But we're not standing on the moon. We're standing on the earth because the moon and the other heavenly bodies do not support life; hence, another demonstration of why earth is different and can't be compared in a meaningful way with the others.

Last I knew, there was nothing in the definition of a planet or moon that requires them to support life.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Thomas

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Re: Questions and issues with the FET
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2010, 02:20:44 PM »
Last I knew, there was nothing in the definition of a planet or moon that requires them to support life.

No, certainly not; but that's not the issue. The issue is that we can't point to the heavenly bodies as evidence of the nature of earth, because the earth is different and unique: the two are not equal. One of those ways is the fact that it supports life, while the others we observe are lifeless and dead.  If we assume that the earth is no different than the rest, and draw the conclusion that it must be spherical because we observe the other heavenly bodies to be, then we would also have to draw the conclusion that, because they are lifeless, so is the earth.  Yet we know this is not the case, because we exist. If we exist, then the earth is indeed different; therefore, it is the height of foolishness to determine the nature of the earth by looking at things that are contrary to the nature of earth. We might as well assume that a frog has wings by looking at a bird.

There is no relativity of perspective because this is our only perspective and our only source of origin. Anything else is hypothetical and nothing more than a thought experiment that is not grounded in reality.
"A procession of the damned. By the damned, I mean the excluded. We shall have a procession of data that Science has excluded. Battalions of the accursed, captained by pallid data that I have exhumed, will march. You'll read them -- or they'll march." - Charles Fort

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Part of the Problem

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Re: Questions and issues with the FET
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2010, 02:34:58 PM »
Alas, I've still never met a talking dog.  :(
Not to take this off the subject, but just because you can't understand your dog doesn't mean it's not talking.  I can't understand Japanese, does that mean Japanese people can't talk?
By eliminating all present contradicting possibilities you would arrive at the present truth. It's impossible to arrive at a future truth.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Questions and issues with the FET
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2010, 02:59:50 PM »
Alas, I've still never met a talking dog.  :(
Not to take this off the subject, but just because you can't understand your dog doesn't mean it's not talking.  I can't understand Japanese, does that mean Japanese people can't talk?

Dogs might be attempting to communicate, sure, but if you want to represent that they are actually talking, well, all I can say is that that goes at least as boldly against modern accepted science as does the theory that the Earth is flat.

But who knows?  I'm no expert biologist.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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markjo

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Re: Questions and issues with the FET
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2010, 03:40:04 PM »
Last I knew, there was nothing in the definition of a planet or moon that requires them to support life.

No, certainly not; but that's not the issue. The issue is that we can't point to the heavenly bodies as evidence of the nature of earth, because the earth is different and unique: the two are not equal.

People are unique as well.  However, that doesn't mean that you can't gain insight about yourself by watching others.

One of those ways is the fact that it supports life, while the others we observe are lifeless and dead. 

We don't know enough about the other planets to know if that is true of all of the other planets.

If we assume that the earth is no different than the rest, and draw the conclusion that it must be spherical because we observe the other heavenly bodies to be, then we would also have to draw the conclusion that, because they are lifeless, so is the earth.  Yet we know this is not the case, because we exist.

Just because the earth is unique, that doesn't mean that it doesn't share some of the same characteristics of other planets.  For example, several planets have been shown to have atmospheres.  Some even show evidence of water.

If we exist, then the earth is indeed different; therefore, it is the height of foolishness to determine the nature of the earth by looking at things that are contrary to the nature of earth. We might as well assume that a frog has wings by looking at a bird.

That is why animals are classified by the similarity of their characteristics.  Frogs and birds may be quite different in many respects but they do share many similar characteristics, such bony skeletons, 2 eyes, 4 limbs, lungs and blood. 

There is no relativity of perspective because this is our only perspective and our only source of origin. Anything else is hypothetical and nothing more than a thought experiment that is not grounded in reality.

Sometimes you need to move beyond your own perspective in order to gain insight.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Weegee Board

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Re: Questions and issues with the FET
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2010, 03:43:08 PM »
Alas, I've still never met a talking dog.  :(
Not to take this off the subject, but just because you can't understand your dog doesn't mean it's not talking.  I can't understand Japanese, does that mean Japanese people can't talk?

Because obviously dogs are the same as humans when it comes to language.

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Drdevice

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Re: Questions and issues with the FET
« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2010, 04:33:59 PM »
Well I'll take it off topic, gorillas (with sufficient training) can be taught sign language. Whales and dolphins communicate with each other as do many other animals. Also, you can talk to your dog. You can give it commands and teach it how to respond. It is not mimicry either they recognize a situation they where taught about before and then they give the appropriate reaction to inform their master.

Granted you probably won’t get any deep or insightful conversation out of an animal it does not mean that they don't think to an extent or form strategy (aka plans for the immediate future)

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Questions and issues with the FET
« Reply #26 on: March 12, 2010, 04:46:48 PM »
Well I'll take it off topic, gorillas (with sufficient training) can be taught sign language. Whales and dolphins communicate with each other as do many other animals. Also, you can talk to your dog. You can give it commands and teach it how to respond. It is not mimicry either they recognize a situation they where taught about before and then they give the appropriate reaction to inform their master.

Granted you probably won’t get any deep or insightful conversation out of an animal it does not mean that they don't think to an extent or form strategy (aka plans for the immediate future)

This is all entirely irrelevant to the point I was making.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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jimspade

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Re: Questions and issues with the FET
« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2010, 06:18:02 PM »
Thomas your responses are baseless at best. Pathetic at worst. Props to you for actually answering them all though.

Quote
13. Why aren't other planets flat

Why don't zebras have flippers?

This is the worst answer of them all. THe other planets are obviously spherical. This is evidence of a gravitational force that exists without the constant acceleration theory. The many moons around many other planets are evidence that orbit is possible. Yet why is earth different? Why do we require the acceleration from dark energy to explain gravity, Why are we not affected by the same gravity as all the other celestial bodies? What makes you think our moon is different to ALL the other planets moons. Saying these things are so because FE requires them to be so is not an adaquete answer, especially since FE is far from proven. Most FE arguments are quite circular...(Spherical) :P



Thomas you dodged my post...Please answer it constructivly
It was Tom Bishop that said those ridiculous things, he is the ultimate foe in regards to FE trolls.

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Thomas

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Re: Questions and issues with the FET
« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2010, 09:57:42 PM »
Thomas you dodged my post...Please answer it constructivly

Jim,

I didn't dodge anything. I might not have given you the answer you wanted to hear, but I can't help that. I'll restate it again in a slightly different form.

Other planets are obviously spherical, and orbit around them is possible because they exhibit a gravitational field.  The problem comes in when you question why the earth should be different.  The most obvious answer is because the earth simply isn't the other planets. It no more needs to follow the same pattern as an insect would need to follow that of a mammal, or a human that of a bird.  This is the material world in which we live; the heavenly bodies are those lifeless objects which we observe making their appointed courses through space.  It really is that simple, though the matter is obfuscated by the rather nihilistic views of many who consider earth to simply be another planet among many, without any special significance or qualitative difference.

We can point to other planets and say, "Why aren't we like them?"  This child-like question can be answered with an equally child-like response: because we're not them. There are many things quite extraordinary about our planet, including the fact that it supports intelligent life; so why should we immediately assume that it should follow the same pattern as other heavenly bodies?

On a side note, I see quite a few people complaining on a daily basis that the FET model is patently absurd, that their tender virgin eyes are being repeatedly violated with the arguments of their proponents.  If FE'ers answers aren't adequate, if you find their logic to be circular and reprehensible, then why do you spend so much time here, exactly?  This is a greater mystery to me than any cosmological speculation ever could be. LOL
"A procession of the damned. By the damned, I mean the excluded. We shall have a procession of data that Science has excluded. Battalions of the accursed, captained by pallid data that I have exhumed, will march. You'll read them -- or they'll march." - Charles Fort

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2fst4u

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Re: Questions and issues with the FET
« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2010, 10:04:00 PM »
Mammals and insects observe the same laws of physics. There is no need for different planets to be exempt from such laws either.