Ask a Christian anything.

So why aren't there prophesies being made and fulfilled all the time?  Seems like God stopped caring about people after the Bible. 

So why aren't there prophesies being made and fulfilled all the time?  Seems like God stopped caring about people after the Bible. 

Or people stopped really listening.

Listening for what, though?

Listening for what, though?

Prophecies?

Canadark, why won't you actually answer any questions? The fuck?

Canadark, which you love more?

CANADA or GOD?!

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on June 18, 2010, 09:56:53 AM

Listening for what, though?

Prophecies?

How do I choose a prophet?

Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on June 18, 2010, 10:40:24 AM

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on June 18, 2010, 09:56:53 AM

Listening for what, though?

Prophecies?

How do I choose a prophet?

I'll do it for 5 bucks.

Canadark, why won't you actually answer any questions? The fuck?

What question? *sob*

Canadark, which you love more?

CANADA or GOD?!

lol

So why aren't there prophesies being made and fulfilled all the time?

I don't know if you would consider another response, but I will add to this - that is if you don't mind.  If you don't want my answer I understand, and feel free to not accept it.

2Ti 3:1 -7 talks about things to come.  Many of these have been happening and are still happening.  I will mention just one thing from those 7 verses.  People will be "having no natural affection."  What do I mean?  

a) Consider for example, a drive-by shooting at a funeral.  Should it not be natural to let someone grieve?

b) Remember the case of Susan Smith who drowned her children by driving a vehicle into a body of water - because of the love of some man?  He did not want children, and so she thought they were a burden, because they kept her from being with him, so she got rid of her kids. - Should it not be natural to love and want to protect and care for your kids?  Even if one couldn't care for them, there are alternatives like putting them up for adoption, or applying for welfare, and/or food stamps at government social services.

c) Take for instance, someone (not a serial killer in the classic sense) who knows they have AIDS, but does not disclose it, because they want to have sex and sometimes with multiple partners.  - Should it not be natural to think of the disease you are knowingly and purposely spreading that can lead to death?

Even if one did not believe in God, and perhaps called themselves a secular humanist, isn't it natural to avoid these things; to be humane, to be civilized?  And I'm not just talking about dictators, but everyday people.

It is true that some of these people may be mentally ill or deranged, but not all of them, for the bible also says people will become:  lovers of themselves; lovers of pleasures rather than God; headstrong; puffed up with pride; without self control.

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on June 18, 2010, 07:56:03 AM

So why aren't there prophesies being made and fulfilled all the time?  Seems like God stopped caring about people after the Bible.  

Or people stopped really listening.

Yes, thank you.

Some Christians are of the belief that the gifts of knowledge, wisdom, tongues, and prophecy ended with the era of the Apostles.

So in other words, some people believe that there has been no progress in the are of languages and science since the bronze age? That's an interesting idea.

So in other words, some people believe that there has been no progress in the are of languages and science since the bronze age? That's an interesting idea.

No. You have no idea what we are talking about.

So in other words, some people believe that there has been no progress in the are of languages and science since the bronze age? That's an interesting idea.

Que?

So in other words, some people believe that there has been no progress in the are of languages and science since the bronze age? That's an interesting idea.

Tongues doesn't refer to languages, it refers to speaking in gibberish when you're filled with the Holy Spirit.  I once had a conversation with a girl who belonged to some branch of Christianity that still does that, and I asked her what it was all about.  She told me that when you pray in tongues that you are speaking the language of the angels.  A language that Satan can't understand (yes, I know Satan is supposed to be an angel).  She said when you do that you are praying a perfect prayer, because you are praying for God's will to be done.  I didn't give her any shit about it, cuz she was pretty cool about answering my questions.

I know what Canadark is talking about regarding the other things he mentioned but I can't think of how to explain it. 

Knowledge and wisdom were given to many of the early church leaders and apostles in the absence of a New Testament. Prophecy is about predicting the future. As for tongues, they come in two types. There is the gibberish kind like you mentioned, where people filled with a religious fervor speak in "tongues of angels", and the more practical variety, where people start speaking other human languages of which they previously had no knowledge. I am of the inclination that none of these gifts exist today, although I don't want to tie God's hands.

1 Corinthians 13:8-12 can be interpreted to support this view, although it could be intended to be poetic:

"Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known."

Quote from: Wendy on June 19, 2010, 06:00:24 AM

So in other words, some people believe that there has been no progress in the are of languages and science since the bronze age? That's an interesting idea.

Que?

Tongues doesn't refer to languages, it refers to speaking in gibberish when you're filled with the Holy Spirit.  I once had a conversation with a girl who belonged to some branch of Christianity that still does that, and I asked her what it was all about.  She told me that when you pray in tongues that you are speaking the language of the angels.  A language that Satan can't understand (yes, I know Satan is supposed to be an angel).  She said when you do that you are praying a perfect prayer, because you are praying for God's will to be done.  I didn't give her any shit about it, cuz she was pretty cool about answering my questions.

I know what Canadark is talking about regarding the other things he mentioned but I can't think of how to explain it.

I believe it's the Pentecostals that believe this.

Knowledge and wisdom were given to many of the early church leaders and apostles in the absence of a New Testament. Prophecy is about predicting the future. As for tongues, they come in two types. There is the gibberish kind like you mentioned, where people filled with a religious fervor speak in "tongues of angels", and the more practical variety, where people start speaking other human languages of which they previously had no knowledge. I am of the inclination that none of these gifts exist today, although I don't want to tie God's hands.

1 Corinthians 13:8-12 can be interpreted to support this view, although it could be intended to be poetic:

"Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known."

You were right the 1st time - not poetic.

The part in blue that I highlighted - also is worded in other bibles as ... "when that which is complete arrives" then it continues with basically the same as what you said - then the rest will cease.  There are other scriptures on this as well.
 

Do you think God made more than 1 universe?

Quote from: Marcus Aurelius on June 15, 2010, 02:03:20 PM

It is clear that divine foreknowledge and free will are incompatible.  That is why I asked Babs if he believed that divine foreknowledge does not exist, since it appears he does believe in free will.

Answered "free will" already in previous post here this thread, as well as not being pre-determined futures.

Quote from: Marcus Aurelius on June 15, 2010, 08:04:42 AM

Then Babs, am I right to guess that you do not believe in Divine Foreknowledge?  God does not know what is going to happen?

God can look into our future but does not; he's not some fortune teller being.  That would be like saying, he is going to perform a tarot reading, or read your palm, which would be engaging in mediums or alchemy.  He let's it play out, and we may not be in his favor when doing bad things, but if we turn over a whole new leaf, then we would be in his favor.  The Bible talks about making your mind over and stripping off the old personalities.  (See Ro 12:2; Col 3:9)  It also talks about when one doing bad turns back against wickedness, the previous works are not remembered.  Meaning He doesn't keep score, and then hold it against you for what you did before.  (Ez 3:20; 33:12; & 13 then go back to verse 11 and it will make sense.)

This is actually a good thing, because if we had pre-destined futures of just being badly molded clay and damned from the start - why try and do what is right.  Yet if all are resurrected no matter what, then again why try to do what is right, for you would be a shoe-in or as they say ... in like Flynn.  We all have free will, but many will pray and say, ... let your will be done, because if we pray in accordance with what he wants, we will be guided.  However ultimately, in the "end", it will be God's will.  (And no I don't mean the end of your one dilema.)

Sorry it took so long to answer.

If God has the ability to look into the future, than the future is set.  If God has the ability to look into the future and know for a fact that I am going to eat corn flakes tomorrow, then that future is set, and I do not have the ability to choose otherwise.  This is true even if God chooses not to look into the future.

If God has the ability to look into the future, than the future is set.  If God has the ability to look into the future and know for a fact that I am going to eat corn flakes tomorrow, then that future is set, and I do not have the ability to choose otherwise.  This is true even if God chooses not to look into the future.

Yes but if you face a choice of Cap'n Crunch or Corn Flakes and you choose the Corn Flakes the perception of free will is still there.  And perception is reality.  Whether or not anyone knew what you were going to choose.

Quote from: Marcus Aurelius on June 21, 2010, 11:09:43 AM

If God has the ability to look into the future, than the future is set.  If God has the ability to look into the future and know for a fact that I am going to eat corn flakes tomorrow, then that future is set, and I do not have the ability to choose otherwise.  This is true even if God chooses not to look into the future.

Yes but if you face a choice of Cap'n Crunch or Corn Flakes and you choose the Corn Flakes the perception of free will is still there.  And perception is reality.  Whether or not anyone knew what you were going to choose.

That's like flipping a coin with two heads on. It looks like you've got a choice of heads or tails, but in the end there can only be one result.

Quote from: Marcus Aurelius on June 21, 2010, 11:09:43 AM

If God has the ability to look into the future, than the future is set.  If God has the ability to look into the future and know for a fact that I am going to eat corn flakes tomorrow, then that future is set, and I do not have the ability to choose otherwise.  This is true even if God chooses not to look into the future.

Yes but if you face a choice of Cap'n Crunch or Corn Flakes and you choose the Corn Flakes the perception of free will is still there.  And perception is reality.  Whether or not anyone knew what you were going to choose.

It is not free will unless I have the ability to choose otherwise.  Perseption does not make it so.  See the man in the room argument.

Maybe the human concept of time buggers it up. Perhaps time is not a variable thing at all, and seeing the future doesn't even exist as a concept.

Maybe the human concept of time buggers it up. Perhaps time is not a variable thing at all, and seeing the future doesn't even exist as a concept.

"People assume that time is a strict progression from cause to effect but actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball off wibbly-wobbly...timey-wimey...stuff..."

Quote from: Marcus Aurelius on June 21, 2010, 11:09:43 AM

If God has the ability to look into the future, than the future is set.  If God has the ability to look into the future and know for a fact that I am going to eat corn flakes tomorrow, then that future is set, and I do not have the ability to choose otherwise.  This is true even if God chooses not to look into the future.

Yes but if you face a choice of Cap'n Crunch or Corn Flakes and you choose the Corn Flakes the perception of free will is still there.  And perception is reality.  Whether or not anyone knew what you were going to choose.

Perceptions differ. What is true is absolute. Your point's invalid.

Quote from: babsinva on June 17, 2010, 08:41:45 PM

Quote from: Marcus Aurelius on June 15, 2010, 02:03:20 PM

It is clear that divine foreknowledge and free will are incompatible.  That is why I asked Babs if he believed that divine foreknowledge does not exist, since it appears he does believe in free will.

Answered "free will" already in previous post here this thread, as well as not being pre-determined futures.

Quote from: Marcus Aurelius on June 15, 2010, 08:04:42 AM

Then Babs, am I right to guess that you do not believe in Divine Foreknowledge?  God does not know what is going to happen?

God can look into our future but does not; he's not some fortune teller being.  That would be like saying, he is going to perform a tarot reading, or read your palm, which would be engaging in mediums or alchemy.  He let's it play out, and we may not be in his favor when doing bad things, but if we turn over a whole new leaf, then we would be in his favor.  The Bible talks about making your mind over and stripping off the old personalities.  (See Ro 12:2; Col 3:9)  It also talks about when one doing bad turns back against wickedness, the previous works are not remembered.  Meaning He doesn't keep score, and then hold it against you for what you did before.  (Ez 3:20; 33:12; & 13 then go back to verse 11 and it will make sense.)

This is actually a good thing, because if we had pre-destined futures of just being badly molded clay and damned from the start - why try and do what is right.  Yet if all are resurrected no matter what, then again why try to do what is right, for you would be a shoe-in or as they say ... in like Flynn.  We all have free will, but many will pray and say, ... let your will be done, because if we pray in accordance with what he wants, we will be guided.  However ultimately, in the "end", it will be God's will.  (And no I don't mean the end of your one dilema.)

Sorry it took so long to answer.

If God has the ability to look into the future, than the future is set.  If God has the ability to look into the future and know for a fact that I am going to eat corn flakes tomorrow, then that future is set, and I do not have the ability to choose otherwise.  This is true even if God chooses not to look into the future.

I answered this twice, and now you are picking it apart with minutia about the habits of your breakfast routine, and being flippant as it pertains to God.  As Parisifal would say, ... irrelevant.   God does not care what you eat for breakfast, as long as it is not immoral, illegal, unethical, unscriptural etc. etc.  If you were to eat your corn flakes with the cut up little fingers of children you have multilated, then yes He would care about what is in your A.M. milk bowl.  Otherwise he could care less, or should I say couldn't care less, and your future is not set.  If you want to seek, then seek, but if you want to make a mockery out of God, then I'm not interested.

wat

Quote from: Marcus Aurelius on June 21, 2010, 11:09:43 AM

Quote from: babsinva on June 17, 2010, 08:41:45 PM

Quote from: Marcus Aurelius on June 15, 2010, 02:03:20 PM

It is clear that divine foreknowledge and free will are incompatible.  That is why I asked Babs if he believed that divine foreknowledge does not exist, since it appears he does believe in free will.

Answered "free will" already in previous post here this thread, as well as not being pre-determined futures.

Quote from: Marcus Aurelius on June 15, 2010, 08:04:42 AM

Then Babs, am I right to guess that you do not believe in Divine Foreknowledge?  God does not know what is going to happen?

God can look into our future but does not; he's not some fortune teller being.  That would be like saying, he is going to perform a tarot reading, or read your palm, which would be engaging in mediums or alchemy.  He let's it play out, and we may not be in his favor when doing bad things, but if we turn over a whole new leaf, then we would be in his favor.  The Bible talks about making your mind over and stripping off the old personalities.  (See Ro 12:2; Col 3:9)  It also talks about when one doing bad turns back against wickedness, the previous works are not remembered.  Meaning He doesn't keep score, and then hold it against you for what you did before.  (Ez 3:20; 33:12; & 13 then go back to verse 11 and it will make sense.)

This is actually a good thing, because if we had pre-destined futures of just being badly molded clay and damned from the start - why try and do what is right.  Yet if all are resurrected no matter what, then again why try to do what is right, for you would be a shoe-in or as they say ... in like Flynn.  We all have free will, but many will pray and say, ... let your will be done, because if we pray in accordance with what he wants, we will be guided.  However ultimately, in the "end", it will be God's will.  (And no I don't mean the end of your one dilema.)

Sorry it took so long to answer.

If God has the ability to look into the future, than the future is set.  If God has the ability to look into the future and know for a fact that I am going to eat corn flakes tomorrow, then that future is set, and I do not have the ability to choose otherwise.  This is true even if God chooses not to look into the future.

I answered this twice, and now you are picking it apart with minutia about the habits of your breakfast routine, and being flippant as it pertains to God.  As Parisifal would say, ... irrelevant.   God does not care what you eat for breakfast, as long as it is not immoral, illegal, unethical, unscriptural etc. etc.  If you were to eat your corn flakes with the cut up little fingers of children you have multilated, then yes He would care about what is in your A.M. milk bowl.  Otherwise he could care less, or should I say couldn't care less, and your future is not set.  If you want to seek, then seek, but if you want to make a mockery out of God, then I'm not interested.

You completely ignored the point that Marcus made.  You haven't answered this at all, let alone twice. This wasn't about breakfast habits, or God caring about anything.  It was about free will, or the lack thereof. 

If it is possible for God to know the future, then the future is set and there is no free will. It doesn't matter if God chooses not to look into the future. 

I answered this twice, and now you are picking it apart with minutia about the habits of your breakfast routine, and being flippant as it pertains to God.  As Parisifal would say, ... irrelevant.   God does not care what you eat for breakfast, as long as it is not immoral, illegal, unethical, unscriptural etc. etc.  If you were to eat your corn flakes with the cut up little fingers of children you have multilated, then yes He would care about what is in your A.M. milk bowl.  Otherwise he could care less, or should I say couldn't care less, and your future is not set.  If you want to seek, then seek, but if you want to make a mockery out of God, then I'm not interested.

I am using an example to illistrate why it is impossible for God to know the future, or have the ability to know according to you, and for human free will to exist.  My example has nothing to do with whether or not God cares about my breakfast routine.  You could substitute your example of finger cereal and it does not change my argument one bit.

My argument is, if God has the ability to know the future (even if he choses not too), then free will does not exist.  You have indicated that both are possible, yet you have not answered how.

Just because God knows the future doesn't mean he's going to control you in it.