Ask a Christian anything.

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Areweonfiya

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #570 on: March 31, 2010, 06:26:13 PM »
Though admittedly I have never read all the way through any other religious text other than the Old and New Testaments (such as the Qur'an), when I read the Bible it did stand out to me.

Do you believe if you were raised in a Muslim home, and was taught at an early age that the Qur'an was the true word and not the bible, that the Qur'an would have stood out to you?


This is the main predicament I have with religion, there are so many in the world, and every one says that they are the truth, that how can only one (if any) be the one?

Because the bible says so, dumbass.

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But_I_Digress

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #571 on: March 31, 2010, 06:27:55 PM »
Though admittedly I have never read all the way through any other religious text other than the Old and New Testaments (such as the Qur'an), when I read the Bible it did stand out to me.

Do you believe if you were raised in a Muslim home, and was taught at an early age that the Qur'an was the true word and not the bible, that the Qur'an would have stood out to you?


This is the main predicament I have with religion, there are so many in the world, and every one says that they are the truth, that how can only one (if any) be the one?

Because the bible says so, dumbass.

Oh, ok. I get it now, it all makes sense. I'll go praise the lord now.
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Canadark

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #572 on: April 01, 2010, 07:05:56 AM »
Though admittedly I have never read all the way through any other religious text other than the Old and New Testaments (such as the Qur'an), when I read the Bible it did stand out to me.

Do you believe if you were raised in a Muslim home, and was taught at an early age that the Qur'an was the true word and not the bible, that the Qur'an would have stood out to you?


This is the main predicament I have with religion, there are so many in the world, and every one says that they are the truth, that how can only one (if any) be the one?

Because the bible says so, dumbass.

Oh, ok. I get it now, it all makes sense. I'll go praise the lord now.

As I've said before, I don't expect this to make sense to you unless you view the world from a Christian perspective.

Though admittedly I have never read all the way through any other religious text other than the Old and New Testaments (such as the Qur'an), when I read the Bible it did stand out to me.

Do you believe if you were raised in a Muslim home, and was taught at an early age that the Qur'an was the true word and not the bible, that the Qur'an would have stood out to you?


This is the main predicament I have with religion, there are so many in the world, and every one says that they are the truth, that how can only one (if any) be the one?

The fact that there are many religions has no bearing on the possibility that most of them are wrong. It is true that had I been raised as a Muslim I probably would have concluded that it is inspired, but that isn't what happened. I had Christian parents and when I was in the midst of my existential meltdown and read through the Bible, I decided it was inspired.

For what it's worth, I have read the Hebrew Bible, but it is included as part of the Christian Bible as well.

No, you've read the Old Testament, unless I'm reading you incorrectly.  While much of the Hebrew bible (Tanakh) is included, there are plenty of parts both added and subtracted, not to mention the differences in language versus biblical translations and the original Hebrew and Aramaic.

The term "Hebrew Bible" refers to those parts of the Tanakh that are accepted as part of Christian canon. The language I read them in his hardly relevant for my purposes especially considering that I do not speak Hebrew or Aramaic, but if you want to take issue with this then you are free to do so.

The no true scotsman fallacy still applies, because your the one drawing the line. When you say 'That being said, I think for things such as genocide and molesting children, we can easily say that no Christian would do something like that, because it implies such an egregious act of rebellion away from the will of the Lord that if the person had in fact accepted the Holy Spirit into his life, he would be incapable of committing such crimes." Yet the text you provided me claims "19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like." These bold ones are not uncommon in regular everyday people, and if your using this as your source of attributes that disqualify you from having the holy spirit, who are you to say that genocide disqualifies someone from Christianity but cheating on your wife does not? I smell Scotsman.

When did I say that cheating on one's wife is not evidence of somebody not living in the spirit?
« Last Edit: April 01, 2010, 07:07:39 AM by Canadark »
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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #573 on: April 01, 2010, 08:06:54 AM »
Is it possible that the current pope is going to hell?
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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #574 on: April 01, 2010, 08:47:46 AM »


Though admittedly I have never read all the way through any other religious text other than the Old and New Testaments (such as the Qur'an), when I read the Bible it did stand out to me.

Do you believe if you were raised in a Muslim home, and was taught at an early age that the Qur'an was the true word and not the bible, that the Qur'an would have stood out to you?


This is the main predicament I have with religion, there are so many in the world, and every one says that they are the truth, that how can only one (if any) be the one?

The fact that there are many religions has no bearing on the possibility that most of them are wrong. It is true that had I been raised as a Muslim I probably would have concluded that it is inspired, but that isn't what happened. I had Christian parents and when I was in the midst of my existential meltdown and read through the Bible, I decided it was inspired.



So surely you realise you might have the wrong religion?
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Friedrich

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #575 on: April 01, 2010, 10:04:20 AM »
Question:

If Jesus returned today, what would he think about the conduct of his representatives?

I am not talking about the catholic church here, because you already answered that and I believe we all know how he would view them. I mean the tax exempt status, the fact that many of those TV preachers are millionaires, while people of faith are dying in poverty all over the world.

Why are so many faithful Christians blind to those obvious contradictions?

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Nomad

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #576 on: April 01, 2010, 10:10:39 AM »
For what it's worth, I have read the Hebrew Bible, but it is included as part of the Christian Bible as well.

No, you've read the Old Testament, unless I'm reading you incorrectly.  While much of the Hebrew bible (Tanakh) is included, there are plenty of parts both added and subtracted, not to mention the differences in language versus biblical translations and the original Hebrew and Aramaic.

The term "Hebrew Bible" refers to those parts of the Tanakh that are accepted as part of Christian canon. The language I read them in his hardly relevant for my purposes especially considering that I do not speak Hebrew or Aramaic, but if you want to take issue with this then you are free to do so.

The dilemma is as such:  By what criteria do you or any other Christian decide what is divinely inspired or not?  Considering some parts of the Tanakh are removed or considered irrelevant to the Christian faith, how is this conclusion reached?  Is there some process by which these pieces are scrutinized and then deemed holy?  Can this process be applied to any entity, or only religious works?

This, of course, also applies on a global scale with any religious object, script, or entity.  By what criteria do you conclude your god is more likely and/or superior to the other god hypotheses out there?

Yes, this question gets asked often, but perhaps there is a good reason for it, eh?  Honestly though, I'm not even looking for an answer.  I know what your answer is already.  I would rather you actually ask yourself the question and actually evaluate your beliefs.  You seem fairly open about your faith, yet still seem to have that "brick wall" mentality that is so depressing about those with religious faith.  :/
« Last Edit: April 01, 2010, 10:29:45 AM by Nomad »
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Canadark

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #577 on: April 01, 2010, 12:40:23 PM »
For what it's worth, I have read the Hebrew Bible, but it is included as part of the Christian Bible as well.

No, you've read the Old Testament, unless I'm reading you incorrectly.  While much of the Hebrew bible (Tanakh) is included, there are plenty of parts both added and subtracted, not to mention the differences in language versus biblical translations and the original Hebrew and Aramaic.

The term "Hebrew Bible" refers to those parts of the Tanakh that are accepted as part of Christian canon. The language I read them in his hardly relevant for my purposes especially considering that I do not speak Hebrew or Aramaic, but if you want to take issue with this then you are free to do so.

The dilemma is as such:  By what criteria do you or any other Christian decide what is divinely inspired or not?  Considering some parts of the Tanakh are removed or considered irrelevant to the Christian faith, how is this conclusion reached?  Is there some process by which these pieces are scrutinized and then deemed holy?  Can this process be applied to any entity, or only religious works?

This, of course, also applies on a global scale with any religious object, script, or entity.  By what criteria do you conclude your god is more likely and/or superior to the other god hypotheses out there?

Yes, this question gets asked often, but perhaps there is a good reason for it, eh?  Honestly though, I'm not even looking for an answer.  I know what your answer is already.  I would rather you actually ask yourself the question and actually evaluate your beliefs.  You seem fairly open about your faith, yet still seem to have that "brick wall" mentality that is so depressing about those with religious faith.  :/

These are very good questions and I am more than happy to answer them. This brick wall you refer to is what Kierkegaard called the "leap to faith". Being a Christian requires one to accept that there is more to life and the universe than that which is observable by the senses. To become a Christian requires a massive paradigm shift; a sort of shock treatment that all at once changes the way that you view the universe.

Please, don't read me the wrong way. My belief in the gospel of Jesus Christ is based entirely on faith, knowing full well that to the outside observer what I do is by all estimates irrational behaviour. I have no other basis for my belief.

As for the validity of scripture, I consider the 66 books of the Bible to be the complete Christian canon. The authors and compilers were all working under God's direction. This is not to say that other works are not inspired, just that they have no place in the Bible. Things such as relics, icons, or other manuscripts (such as the Apocrypha) are not canon.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2010, 12:46:45 PM by Canadark »
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Canadark

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #578 on: April 01, 2010, 12:42:10 PM »
Is it possible that the current pope is going to hell?

Yes.

So surely you realise you might have the wrong religion?

Yes, but that would mean that my mind has been playing tricks on me all along.

Question:

If Jesus returned today, what would he think about the conduct of his representatives?

I am not talking about the catholic church here, because you already answered that and I believe we all know how he would view them. I mean the tax exempt status, the fact that many of those TV preachers are millionaires, while people of faith are dying in poverty all over the world.

Why are so many faithful Christians blind to those obvious contradictions?

I think Jesus would be as disgusted with them as he was with the pharisees of his times. He had no problem cavorting with prostitutes and tax collectors and people considered "unclean" by the standards of his time, but when he saw religious leaders abusing their power he wouldn't hesitate to start flipping over tables and call them out on their hypocrisy. I can think of times in my own life when I have chosen to ignore people who could have used my help, so I'm sure he would have some things to say for me as well.

As to why so many people are blind to those contradictions, I think many people turn "Christian" leaders into idols or think that they can buy salvation because they don't believe or have never heard the true gospel. These practices go totally against the core Christian concepts of the priesthood of all believers and undeserved grace.

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Nomad

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #579 on: April 01, 2010, 12:47:38 PM »
What is shocking to me actually is not only that in order to hold such a worldview you need to throw out all reasonable scrutiny of the world, but that the god that it is in support of fully endorses such a "leap of faith."

Why would this god give us the capacity to study and probe the universe, and then encourage us not to bother and instead accept something based purely on "intuition"?  And for that matter, punish those that don't take it at face value!  It just doesn't make sense.
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Canadark

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #580 on: April 01, 2010, 01:00:09 PM »
What is shocking to me actually is not only that in order to hold such a worldview you need to throw out all reasonable scrutiny of the world, but that the god that it is in support of fully endorses such a "leap of faith."

Why would this god give us the capacity to study and probe the universe, and then encourage us not to bother and instead accept something based purely on "intuition"?  And for that matter, punish those that don't take it at face value!  It just doesn't make sense.

I don't deny the physical state of the universe nor do I deny that God takes pleasure in watching us try to peace together our surroundings and make sense of them. The leap to faith doesn't cause me to throw out reasonable scrutiny of the world, I know that the earth is round and orbits the sun and that creatures evolve from other creatures, but as a Christian I believe that God is present through it all. For this I have no observable evidence, just faith. I view history as being more than just humans stumbling from one century to another, but as part of a giant meta-narrative within which God has played an active role.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2010, 01:01:55 PM by Canadark »
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Sadistic

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #581 on: April 01, 2010, 01:04:07 PM »
The no true scotsman fallacy still applies, because your the one drawing the line. When you say 'That being said, I think for things such as genocide and molesting children, we can easily say that no Christian would do something like that, because it implies such an egregious act of rebellion away from the will of the Lord that if the person had in fact accepted the Holy Spirit into his life, he would be incapable of committing such crimes." Yet the text you provided me claims "19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like." These bold ones are not uncommon in regular everyday people, and if your using this as your source of attributes that disqualify you from having the holy spirit, who are you to say that genocide disqualifies someone from Christianity but cheating on your wife does not? I smell Scotsman.

When did I say that cheating on one's wife is not evidence of somebody not living in the spirit?

Because you consistently only used mass genocide as your example, rather than something easier to relate to, such as cheating, envy, drunkenness etc.

Do you really think that an act of drunkenness nullifies your Christianity?  If so, I would say its reasonable to say there are significantly more atheists in America than Christians.
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Friedrich

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #582 on: April 01, 2010, 01:50:28 PM »
I think Jesus would be as disgusted with them as he was with the pharisees of his times. He had no problem cavorting with prostitutes and tax collectors and people considered "unclean" by the standards of his time, but when he saw religious leaders abusing their power he wouldn't hesitate to start flipping over tables and call them out on their hypocrisy.

You know, I honestly like Jesus as a character. He is compassionate for the right reasons and he shows signs of weakness, while still standing for what he believes to be right. It's the difference I see between what he obviously wanted from his followers and the reality of modern churches being frequented by bigoted gaybashers, that turns me away from religion.

Why is Jesus' message so clear to a heathen like me and almost every religious person I know (with exceptions) can't be bothered to really live it? Why was Jesus cavorting with prostitutes and outcasts, while his proclaimed followers condemn them? Why would he send someone like me to hell for being born critical and curious, while mean spirited bigots go to heaven, because they preyed their knees raw?


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Areweonfiya

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #583 on: April 01, 2010, 02:54:10 PM »

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But_I_Digress

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #584 on: April 01, 2010, 09:19:05 PM »
The fact that there are many religions has no bearing on the possibility that most of them are wrong. It is true that had I been raised as a Muslim I probably would have concluded that it is inspired, but that isn't what happened. I had Christian parents and when I was in the midst of my existential meltdown and read through the Bible, I decided it was inspired.

Then how could you possibly believe that they deserve to go to hell when you know that their parents are basically the ones who taught them their book is the truth? If they never got the chance to hear the gospel, or even got the chance but the way they were raised made them believe the gospel was a lie, how is it fair that they go to hell?
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SupahLovah

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #585 on: April 02, 2010, 10:30:51 AM »
@ canadark

what are you having for dinner today?
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Mykael

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #586 on: April 02, 2010, 11:40:55 AM »
@Canadark

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Canadark

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #587 on: April 03, 2010, 09:28:51 AM »
The fact that there are many religions has no bearing on the possibility that most of them are wrong. It is true that had I been raised as a Muslim I probably would have concluded that it is inspired, but that isn't what happened. I had Christian parents and when I was in the midst of my existential meltdown and read through the Bible, I decided it was inspired.

Then how could you possibly believe that they deserve to go to hell when you know that their parents are basically the ones who taught them their book is the truth? If they never got the chance to hear the gospel, or even got the chance but the way they were raised made them believe the gospel was a lie, how is it fair that they go to hell?

I have addressed this countless times. I believe in total salvation; everybody's' sins are forgiven. Only those who reject the gospel after it is presented to them go to hell.

What is your favorite vegetable?



I like avocados, do they count as a vegetable?

I think Jesus would be as disgusted with them as he was with the pharisees of his times. He had no problem cavorting with prostitutes and tax collectors and people considered "unclean" by the standards of his time, but when he saw religious leaders abusing their power he wouldn't hesitate to start flipping over tables and call them out on their hypocrisy.

You know, I honestly like Jesus as a character. He is compassionate for the right reasons and he shows signs of weakness, while still standing for what he believes to be right. It's the difference I see between what he obviously wanted from his followers and the reality of modern churches being frequented by bigoted gaybashers, that turns me away from religion.

Why is Jesus' message so clear to a heathen like me and almost every religious person I know (with exceptions) can't be bothered to really live it? Why was Jesus cavorting with prostitutes and outcasts, while his proclaimed followers condemn them? Why would he send someone like me to hell for being born critical and curious, while mean spirited bigots go to heaven, because they preyed their knees raw?



This breaks my heart, to think that most people believe that mean-spirited bigots go to heaven, while a true Christian cannot be critical and curious.

Jesus is not religion; not to me. That's not to say that I do not do religious things. I go to church, I was baptized, I take communion, I pray and sing hymns, but at the end of the day the single most defining feature of my existence is that I believe in the divinity of a man who lived 2000 years ago and seek to model my own life on his. Take your curiosity and run with it. God programmed us with a desire to learn and to worship. If you are serious about what you said regarding Jesus, I can only recommend that you explore it further. You may very well reach the same conclusions i did.

The no true scotsman fallacy still applies, because your the one drawing the line. When you say 'That being said, I think for things such as genocide and molesting children, we can easily say that no Christian would do something like that, because it implies such an egregious act of rebellion away from the will of the Lord that if the person had in fact accepted the Holy Spirit into his life, he would be incapable of committing such crimes." Yet the text you provided me claims "19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like." These bold ones are not uncommon in regular everyday people, and if your using this as your source of attributes that disqualify you from having the holy spirit, who are you to say that genocide disqualifies someone from Christianity but cheating on your wife does not? I smell Scotsman.

When did I say that cheating on one's wife is not evidence of somebody not living in the spirit?

Because you consistently only used mass genocide as your example, rather than something easier to relate to, such as cheating, envy, drunkenness etc.

Do you really think that an act of drunkenness nullifies your Christianity?  If so, I would say its reasonable to say there are significantly more atheists in America than Christians.

I was using genocide because somebody brought that up a few pages back. Nothing nullifies one's Christianity, this is the point I am trying to communicate to you. Habitual sin is an indicator that you never received the Holy Spirit in the first place. However, since the Bible indicates in other places that God will forgive us if we sin, one can conclude that the passage I quoted was not referring to single "deadly sins" but habitual sin as a whole. A single act of sexual unfaithfulness does not necessarily indicate that you never received the Holy Spirit, but doing it continually could be considered good evidence. Likewise, getting drunk does not mean you aren't a Christian, but being a slave to booze can. I used genocide and molesting children as examples because they indicate a lifestyle apart from the Holy Spirit, one in which acts of sin are chronic.
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Sadistic

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #588 on: April 03, 2010, 12:10:04 PM »
-So if you only molest a child once or twice you still have the holy spirit? What qualifies as habitual?

-What about envy, one of the habitual sins you listed. Certainly many people are envious habitually, but that doesn't necessarily even manifest itself.

-What if someone who commits mass genocide was genuinely sorry for their actions. For example, if a Nazi was brainwashed into killing Jews because he genuinely thought he was helping society, only to realize afterwords his actions were disgusting and to totally regrets his doings. He would have committed habitual sin because he was taught it was goodness, would he not have the holy spirit?

-Many mass murderers commit their crimes because they think what they are doing is good, why does the holy spirit choose not to inhabit their body, but rather yours? Those recent militia men for example, thought what they were doing was for the betterment of society, but Christians want to distance themselves from them because their actions are seen as disgusting by the rest of society. Does the holy spirit base its qualifications off of what society feels is appropriate morality?
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Canadark

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #589 on: April 05, 2010, 10:11:23 AM »
-So if you only molest a child once or twice you still have the holy spirit? What qualifies as habitual?

It would depend entirely on the situation. I have trouble believing that anybody who has the Holy Spirit is capable of committing such an act because it implies such a perverted mindset, but the Lord deals with us as individuals. The scripture verses I listed are still to vague for us to draw up a clear black and white list of what qualifies as habitual.

-What about envy, one of the habitual sins you listed. Certainly many people are envious habitually, but that doesn't necessarily even manifest itself.
Certainly, if you live by the flesh then you feel envy habitually. Therefore, a Christian should never be in a state of envy (but this still goes along with reply number 1).

-What if someone who commits mass genocide was genuinely sorry for their actions. For example, if a Nazi was brainwashed into killing Jews because he genuinely thought he was helping society, only to realize afterwords his actions were disgusting and to totally regrets his doings. He would have committed habitual sin because he was taught it was goodness, would he not have the holy spirit?

That is not what the Holy Spirit does. If you told a Christian that committing acts of genocide was good, the fact that he has the Holy Spirit in him means that he would never be able to agree with you. Remember, we consider the Holy Spirit to be a real, active, and unbeatable force behind out decision making process.

-Many mass murderers commit their crimes because they think what they are doing is good, why does the holy spirit choose not to inhabit their body, but rather yours? Those recent militia men for example, thought what they were doing was for the betterment of society, but Christians want to distance themselves from them because their actions are seen as disgusting by the rest of society. Does the holy spirit base its qualifications off of what society feels is appropriate morality?

Absolutely not. The Holy Spirit resides in any person who requests it, therefore because those militants clearly failed to show the signs of a spirit-filled life, it can be concluded that they never surrendered themselves to the Holy Spirit in the first place.
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Its a Sphere

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #590 on: April 05, 2010, 11:14:29 AM »
-What if someone who commits mass genocide was genuinely sorry for their actions. For example, if a Nazi was brainwashed into killing Jews because he genuinely thought he was helping society, only to realize afterwords his actions were disgusting and to totally regrets his doings. He would have committed habitual sin because he was taught it was goodness, would he not have the holy spirit?

That is not what the Holy Spirit does. If you told a Christian that committing acts of genocide was good, the fact that he has the Holy Spirit in him means that he would never be able to agree with you. Remember, we consider the Holy Spirit to be a real, active, and unbeatable force behind out decision making process.

-Many mass murderers commit their crimes because they think what they are doing is good, why does the holy spirit choose not to inhabit their body, but rather yours? Those recent militia men for example, thought what they were doing was for the betterment of society, but Christians want to distance themselves from them because their actions are seen as disgusting by the rest of society. Does the holy spirit base its qualifications off of what society feels is appropriate morality?

Absolutely not. The Holy Spirit resides in any person who requests it, therefore because those militants clearly failed to show the signs of a spirit-filled life, it can be concluded that they never surrendered themselves to the Holy Spirit in the first place.


Like when the popes ordered kings, knights and other warriors of the church (after being promised an indulgence) to go kill the non-believers in the series of crusades?
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Sadistic

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #591 on: April 05, 2010, 01:16:43 PM »
-What if someone who commits mass genocide was genuinely sorry for their actions. For example, if a Nazi was brainwashed into killing Jews because he genuinely thought he was helping society, only to realize afterwords his actions were disgusting and to totally regrets his doings. He would have committed habitual sin because he was taught it was goodness, would he not have the holy spirit?

That is not what the Holy Spirit does. If you told a Christian that committing acts of genocide was good, the fact that he has the Holy Spirit in him means that he would never be able to agree with you. Remember, we consider the Holy Spirit to be a real, active, and unbeatable force behind out decision making process.

-Many mass murderers commit their crimes because they think what they are doing is good, why does the holy spirit choose not to inhabit their body, but rather yours? Those recent militia men for example, thought what they were doing was for the betterment of society, but Christians want to distance themselves from them because their actions are seen as disgusting by the rest of society. Does the holy spirit base its qualifications off of what society feels is appropriate morality?

Absolutely not. The Holy Spirit resides in any person who requests it, therefore because those militants clearly failed to show the signs of a spirit-filled life, it can be concluded that they never surrendered themselves to the Holy Spirit in the first place.

So those people that get brainwashed, they're just fucked for life? God decided it in advance? Because if that's the case, the evidence from the Milgram experiment shows that a huge percentage of society is capable of doing very horrible things, does the holy spirit not reside in them because they trust authority too much?
"So now we know. Pigs are horses. Girls are boys. War is peace." -Arundhati Roy

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Canadark

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #592 on: April 05, 2010, 01:36:37 PM »
-What if someone who commits mass genocide was genuinely sorry for their actions. For example, if a Nazi was brainwashed into killing Jews because he genuinely thought he was helping society, only to realize afterwords his actions were disgusting and to totally regrets his doings. He would have committed habitual sin because he was taught it was goodness, would he not have the holy spirit?

That is not what the Holy Spirit does. If you told a Christian that committing acts of genocide was good, the fact that he has the Holy Spirit in him means that he would never be able to agree with you. Remember, we consider the Holy Spirit to be a real, active, and unbeatable force behind out decision making process.

-Many mass murderers commit their crimes because they think what they are doing is good, why does the holy spirit choose not to inhabit their body, but rather yours? Those recent militia men for example, thought what they were doing was for the betterment of society, but Christians want to distance themselves from them because their actions are seen as disgusting by the rest of society. Does the holy spirit base its qualifications off of what society feels is appropriate morality?

Absolutely not. The Holy Spirit resides in any person who requests it, therefore because those militants clearly failed to show the signs of a spirit-filled life, it can be concluded that they never surrendered themselves to the Holy Spirit in the first place.


Like when the popes ordered kings, knights and other warriors of the church (after being promised an indulgence) to go kill the non-believers in the series of crusades?

Precisely.

-What if someone who commits mass genocide was genuinely sorry for their actions. For example, if a Nazi was brainwashed into killing Jews because he genuinely thought he was helping society, only to realize afterwords his actions were disgusting and to totally regrets his doings. He would have committed habitual sin because he was taught it was goodness, would he not have the holy spirit?

That is not what the Holy Spirit does. If you told a Christian that committing acts of genocide was good, the fact that he has the Holy Spirit in him means that he would never be able to agree with you. Remember, we consider the Holy Spirit to be a real, active, and unbeatable force behind out decision making process.

-Many mass murderers commit their crimes because they think what they are doing is good, why does the holy spirit choose not to inhabit their body, but rather yours? Those recent militia men for example, thought what they were doing was for the betterment of society, but Christians want to distance themselves from them because their actions are seen as disgusting by the rest of society. Does the holy spirit base its qualifications off of what society feels is appropriate morality?

Absolutely not. The Holy Spirit resides in any person who requests it, therefore because those militants clearly failed to show the signs of a spirit-filled life, it can be concluded that they never surrendered themselves to the Holy Spirit in the first place.

So those people that get brainwashed, they're just fucked for life? God decided it in advance? Because if that's the case, the evidence from the Milgram experiment shows that a huge percentage of society is capable of doing very horrible things, does the holy spirit not reside in them because they trust authority too much?

The Holy Spirit doesn't reside in them because they never asked him to reside in them. Those who sin out out of promises of a better world or threats are still sinning. I believe that a Christian living in the Holy Spirit would find committing acts of genocide to be impossible and against his or her own nature; it would be easier for the Christian to accept death. People are capable of doing horrible things because man is depraved by his nature, Milgram's findings only supports my theory even more. Without the Holy Spirit we are slaves to sin at our core.
There is evidence for a NASA conspiracy. Please search.

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Sadistic

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #593 on: April 05, 2010, 02:25:22 PM »
Perhaps the genocide from the God of the old testament provided support to their reasoning. Certainly when God killed thousands of people, or ordered his followers to kill thousands of people, it was for the betterment of society.

p.s. The people who killed in the old testament, because god told them to, were they an exception to this "holy spirit rule"?
"So now we know. Pigs are horses. Girls are boys. War is peace." -Arundhati Roy

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Canadark

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #594 on: April 05, 2010, 02:38:12 PM »
Perhaps the genocide from the God of the old testament provided support to their reasoning. Certainly when God killed thousands of people, or ordered his followers to kill thousands of people, it was for the betterment of society.

p.s. The people who killed in the old testament, because god told them to, were they an exception to this "holy spirit rule"?

You don't seem to understand that we consider the Holy Spirit to be as real of a force as the weather. It is not a matter of reasoning, but of actual ability. Having the Holy Spirit makes one incapable of committing habitual sin as it is described in the Bible.

The people who killed in the Old Testament were an exception to this rule because:

A. They were acting under God's orders for specific occasions. AND

B. The Jewish people did not receive the Holy Spirit en masse like the Christians who have come after Pentecost do.
There is evidence for a NASA conspiracy. Please search.

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The Terror

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #595 on: April 05, 2010, 02:40:59 PM »
I guess all the paedo priests don't have the Holy Spirit then.

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Sadistic

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #596 on: April 05, 2010, 02:48:41 PM »
So what if someone brainwashes you into thinking that God IS telling you to kill people?
"So now we know. Pigs are horses. Girls are boys. War is peace." -Arundhati Roy

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Its a Sphere

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #597 on: April 05, 2010, 04:05:41 PM »
-What if someone who commits mass genocide was genuinely sorry for their actions. For example, if a Nazi was brainwashed into killing Jews because he genuinely thought he was helping society, only to realize afterwords his actions were disgusting and to totally regrets his doings. He would have committed habitual sin because he was taught it was goodness, would he not have the holy spirit?

That is not what the Holy Spirit does. If you told a Christian that committing acts of genocide was good, the fact that he has the Holy Spirit in him means that he would never be able to agree with you. Remember, we consider the Holy Spirit to be a real, active, and unbeatable force behind out decision making process.

-Many mass murderers commit their crimes because they think what they are doing is good, why does the holy spirit choose not to inhabit their body, but rather yours? Those recent militia men for example, thought what they were doing was for the betterment of society, but Christians want to distance themselves from them because their actions are seen as disgusting by the rest of society. Does the holy spirit base its qualifications off of what society feels is appropriate morality?

Absolutely not. The Holy Spirit resides in any person who requests it, therefore because those militants clearly failed to show the signs of a spirit-filled life, it can be concluded that they never surrendered themselves to the Holy Spirit in the first place.


Like when the popes ordered kings, knights and other warriors of the church (after being promised an indulgence) to go kill the non-believers in the series of crusades?

Precisely.

So the highest official in the Catholic church can attain that position without surrendering themselves to the holy spirit?  That doesn't seem very inspiring to the masses.
"We know that the sun is 93 million miles away and takes up 5 degrees of the sky.

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Ocius

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #598 on: April 05, 2010, 05:17:08 PM »
I think Canadark is a protestant and protestants don't like Catholics very much. There is a lot of dissension in the ranks when it comes to Christianity. 
« Last Edit: April 05, 2010, 05:20:42 PM by Fortuna »

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Areweonfiya

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #599 on: April 05, 2010, 05:56:06 PM »
Do you think Jesus would approve of the war in Iraq?