Ask a Christian anything.

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Canadark

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #540 on: March 29, 2010, 07:59:49 AM »
That seems to be quite a bit of reliance on the hope that all the disciples happened to make a very large number of omissions at specific sections, but you do have your faith.

In the story of Moses, who gave the magicians their magic powers?



Fraud or Satanic power.
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Friedrich

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #541 on: March 29, 2010, 08:05:38 AM »
Canadark, have you read other religious texts all the way through?

No.

Then how can you know your religion is the real one? You ought to try others too otherwise God might be really really angry at you cos you've got his religion wrong.

You're right, I really should read other religious texts but not for the reason you gave. You are assuming that had I read the Koran first I might have concluded that is inspired rather than the Bible. I disagree with this. I don't believe that I need to read every story about orphans to know that Oliver Twist is brilliant, just as I don't need to read every religious text to believe that the Bible is inspired.

For what it's worth, I have read the Hebrew Bible, but it is included as part of the Christian Bible as well.

Hmm, she is right though. You can't make an informed decision without knowing all the facts.

I was surprised to see that you haven't read any of them yet, considering how informed you seem on christian subjects.

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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #542 on: March 29, 2010, 08:45:04 AM »
Canadark, have you read other religious texts all the way through?

No.

Then how can you know your religion is the real one? You ought to try others too otherwise God might be really really angry at you cos you've got his religion wrong.

You're right, I really should read other religious texts but not for the reason you gave. You are assuming that had I read the Koran first I might have concluded that is inspired rather than the Bible. I disagree with this. I don't believe that I need to read every story about orphans to know that Oliver Twist is brilliant, just as I don't need to read every religious text to believe that the Bible is inspired.

For what it's worth, I have read the Hebrew Bible, but it is included as part of the Christian Bible as well.

Choosing the right religion is just a little more important than choosing the right story book about orphans wouldn't you think? I'm sure God would be very displeased that you would be so flippant about the matter of your soul.
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Areweonfiya

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #543 on: March 29, 2010, 09:10:59 AM »
How can I go to Hell if I don't believe in it?

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parsec

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #544 on: March 29, 2010, 12:03:05 PM »
How can I go to Hell if I don't believe in it?
Lolwut? You might also not believe a truck can run you over, but try standing in front of a moving one on a highway.

P.S.
Post results.

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Canadark

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #545 on: March 29, 2010, 04:27:08 PM »
How can I go to Hell if I don't believe in it?

How can I go to Japan if I don't believe in it?
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Canadark

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #546 on: March 29, 2010, 04:29:06 PM »
Canadark, have you read other religious texts all the way through?

No.

Then how can you know your religion is the real one? You ought to try others too otherwise God might be really really angry at you cos you've got his religion wrong.

You're right, I really should read other religious texts but not for the reason you gave. You are assuming that had I read the Koran first I might have concluded that is inspired rather than the Bible. I disagree with this. I don't believe that I need to read every story about orphans to know that Oliver Twist is brilliant, just as I don't need to read every religious text to believe that the Bible is inspired.

For what it's worth, I have read the Hebrew Bible, but it is included as part of the Christian Bible as well.

Choosing the right religion is just a little more important than choosing the right story book about orphans wouldn't you think? I'm sure God would be very displeased that you would be so flippant about the matter of your soul.

How many books do I have to read in order to not be flippant? ;)
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Mykael

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #547 on: March 29, 2010, 04:31:20 PM »
Canadark, have you read other religious texts all the way through?

No.

Then how can you know your religion is the real one? You ought to try others too otherwise God might be really really angry at you cos you've got his religion wrong.

You're right, I really should read other religious texts but not for the reason you gave. You are assuming that had I read the Koran first I might have concluded that is inspired rather than the Bible. I disagree with this. I don't believe that I need to read every story about orphans to know that Oliver Twist is brilliant, just as I don't need to read every religious text to believe that the Bible is inspired.

For what it's worth, I have read the Hebrew Bible, but it is included as part of the Christian Bible as well.

Choosing the right religion is just a little more important than choosing the right story book about orphans wouldn't you think? I'm sure God would be very displeased that you would be so flippant about the matter of your soul.

How many books do I have to read in order to not be flippant? ;)
Enough to understand differing viewpoints/belief systems.

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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #548 on: March 29, 2010, 04:32:10 PM »
Well, put it this way, when I was looking around for flats (apartments) I looked at dozens, went to visit others, examined each possible one and that's just somewhere I'm commiting myself to live for 6 months, you're banking your eternal life on the brochure of one celestial apartment.

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But_I_Digress

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #549 on: March 29, 2010, 05:50:31 PM »
Canadark, have you read other religious texts all the way through?

No.

Then how can you know your religion is the real one? You ought to try others too otherwise God might be really really angry at you cos you've got his religion wrong.

You're right, I really should read other religious texts but not for the reason you gave. You are assuming that had I read the Koran first I might have concluded that is inspired rather than the Bible. I disagree with this. I don't believe that I need to read every story about orphans to know that Oliver Twist is brilliant, just as I don't need to read every religious text to believe that the Bible is inspired.

For what it's worth, I have read the Hebrew Bible, but it is included as part of the Christian Bible as well.

Choosing the right religion is just a little more important than choosing the right story book about orphans wouldn't you think? I'm sure God would be very displeased that you would be so flippant about the matter of your soul.

How many books do I have to read in order to not be flippant? ;)


Do you believe that if you were raised in a Muslim home, you would have become a Muslim instead of a Christian? Do you believe that you would have believed that the Qur'an was the true word of god instead of the bible?
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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #550 on: March 29, 2010, 06:42:50 PM »
Canadark, have you read other religious texts all the way through?

No.

Then how can you know your religion is the real one? You ought to try others too otherwise God might be really really angry at you cos you've got his religion wrong.

You're right, I really should read other religious texts but not for the reason you gave. You are assuming that had I read the Koran first I might have concluded that is inspired rather than the Bible. I disagree with this. I don't believe that I need to read every story about orphans to know that Oliver Twist is brilliant, just as I don't need to read every religious text to believe that the Bible is inspired.

For what it's worth, I have read the Hebrew Bible, but it is included as part of the Christian Bible as well.

Choosing the right religion is just a little more important than choosing the right story book about orphans wouldn't you think? I'm sure God would be very displeased that you would be so flippant about the matter of your soul.

How many books do I have to read in order to not be flippant? ;)

I can hear God's wrath descending already.

The others have this covered.
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Canadark

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #551 on: March 29, 2010, 07:27:14 PM »
You all are correct, I should read more spiritual writings outside of the realm of Christianity. However, my belief in the Christian God is still genuine. You could torture me, beat me with sticks, and kill my family and it would still have no bearings of what I in my mind actually believe. When I read the Bible I figured that it was true because it seemed to me to be divinely inspired. I don't know how reading the Qur'an, for example, would change my opinion although I suppose it is possible. I'll get right on it.

Do you believe that if you were raised in a Muslim home, you would have become a Muslim instead of a Christian? Do you believe that you would have believed that the Qur'an was the true word of god instead of the bible?

If I had been raised in a Muslim household it is much more likely that I would have come to believe that the Qur'an is inspired. But belief has no bearings on reality, and my experience has led me to believe that the Bible is true.


I can hear God's wrath descending already.


Which leads me to believe that the shoe fits equally well on both feet.

How many of you have actually read the entire Bible?
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But_I_Digress

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #552 on: March 29, 2010, 08:08:08 PM »
Why are there so many different religions all over the world? If there truly was only one god, don't you think he would have made it clear that his book was the one and only truth?

I may have alredy asked this, but I don't feel like reading through the thread.
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Sadistic

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #553 on: March 30, 2010, 12:07:02 AM »
That seems to be quite a bit of reliance on the hope that all the disciples happened to make a very large number of omissions at specific sections, but you do have your faith.

In the story of Moses, who gave the magicians their magic powers?



Fraud or Satanic power.

How do I get Satanic powers?
"So now we know. Pigs are horses. Girls are boys. War is peace." -Arundhati Roy

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Canadark

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #554 on: March 30, 2010, 06:14:08 AM »
Why are there so many different religions all over the world? If there truly was only one god, don't you think he would have made it clear that his book was the one and only truth?

I may have alredy asked this, but I don't feel like reading through the thread.

God did make it pretty clear that his way was the only one, but he still gives us free will.

That seems to be quite a bit of reliance on the hope that all the disciples happened to make a very large number of omissions at specific sections, but you do have your faith.

In the story of Moses, who gave the magicians their magic powers?



Fraud or Satanic power.

How do I get Satanic powers?

I don't know.
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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #555 on: March 30, 2010, 07:31:00 AM »
How many of you have actually read the entire Bible?

Well apart from skimming through the less interesting parts (Numbers for instance) I've pretty much read it all. And did Postal Bible School.
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Mykael

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #556 on: March 30, 2010, 08:53:13 AM »
That seems to be quite a bit of reliance on the hope that all the disciples happened to make a very large number of omissions at specific sections, but you do have your faith.

In the story of Moses, who gave the magicians their magic powers?



Fraud or Satanic power.

How do I get Satanic powers?
Ebay

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But_I_Digress

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #557 on: March 30, 2010, 10:52:59 AM »
God did make it pretty clear that his way was the only one, but he still gives us free will.

Tell that to the Muslims.
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Mykael

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #558 on: March 30, 2010, 10:57:22 AM »
Why are there so many different religions all over the world? If there truly was only one god, don't you think he would have made it clear that his book was the one and only truth?

I may have alredy asked this, but I don't feel like reading through the thread.

God did make it pretty clear that his way was the only one
How so?

but he still gives us free will.
Free will isn't very free if God punishes us for making the "wrong" decision.

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Canadark

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #559 on: March 30, 2010, 02:12:33 PM »
Why has nothing supernatural happened recently?

How do you define supernatural?

Why are there so many different religions all over the world? If there truly was only one god, don't you think he would have made it clear that his book was the one and only truth?

I may have alredy asked this, but I don't feel like reading through the thread.

God did make it pretty clear that his way was the only one
How so?
John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

but he still gives us free will.
Free will isn't very free if God punishes us for making the "wrong" decision.

I disagree. Biblical free will doesn't imply the absence of consequences to our decisions. This much is obvious.

God did make it pretty clear that his way was the only one, but he still gives us free will.

Tell that to the Muslims.

I believe that the Islamic conception of God is incorrect.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 02:15:24 PM by Canadark »
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Mykael

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #560 on: March 30, 2010, 04:00:11 PM »
Why has nothing supernatural happened recently?

How do you define supernatural?

Why are there so many different religions all over the world? If there truly was only one god, don't you think he would have made it clear that his book was the one and only truth?

I may have alredy asked this, but I don't feel like reading through the thread.

God did make it pretty clear that his way was the only one
How so?
John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
Do you not see that Allah is He Whom do glorify all those who are in the heavens and the earth, and the (very) birds with expanded wings? He knows the prayer of each one and its glorification, and Allah is Cognizant of what they do. (The Light 24.41)

Bible quotes don't really answer my question. He made it clear by inspiring someone to write something in a book? There's hundreds of different holy books in the world; if only one of them was correct then why hasn't God made the Bible stand out in some way?

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Sadistic

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #561 on: March 30, 2010, 05:02:29 PM »
Where can I buy a chocolate Easter Jesus?

At what point does a Christian not become a Christian because they are too bad. No True Scotsman logic is very common, there is even a use of the fallacy for those militia men (link below), but where exactly should we draw the line for non-Christians? I mean, Nazis genuinely believed what they were doing was for a better society, but clearly you would associate them as non-Christians because they killed so many people; these militia people were only planning on carrying out a killing, so who knows if you will still accept them based on your made up criteria. Both of these cases are where people think what they are doing is right, yet when a republican senator cheats on his wife, he knows for a fact that what he was doing was bad and yet does it regardless, but surely that isn't a criteria for getting into heaven by your particular standards. What about Stem Cell research? A scientist may be killing thousands of innocent souls, but s/he is doing for the sake of society, would this instance count towards going to hell by your particular standards? Why do you think your particular standards are right anyways? I don't think the holy spirit provided a list of things that signal whether or not it exists within you.



http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/03/two-things-to-agree-on.html
« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 05:44:55 PM by Sadistic »
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Sadistic

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #562 on: March 30, 2010, 07:02:04 PM »
Why has nothing supernatural happened recently?

How do you define supernatural?

Something that you cannot prove or disprove using methodological naturalism.
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Areweonfiya

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #563 on: March 30, 2010, 10:23:38 PM »
What is your favorite vegetable?


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poser765

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #564 on: March 30, 2010, 10:29:23 PM »
What is your favorite vegetable?


Did Jesus own a yo-yo?

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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #565 on: March 31, 2010, 07:07:24 AM »
Is online transexuality wrong?

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Canadark

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #566 on: March 31, 2010, 11:55:54 AM »
Do you not see that Allah is He Whom do glorify all those who are in the heavens and the earth, and the (very) birds with expanded wings? He knows the prayer of each one and its glorification, and Allah is Cognizant of what they do. (The Light 24.41)

Bible quotes don't really answer my question. He made it clear by inspiring someone to write something in a book? There's hundreds of different holy books in the world; if only one of them was correct then why hasn't God made the Bible stand out in some way?

Though admittedly I have never read all the way through any other religious text other than the Old and New Testaments (such as the Qur'an), when I read the Bible it did stand out to me.

Why has nothing supernatural happened recently?

How do you define supernatural?

Something that you cannot prove or disprove using methodological naturalism.

Something that disagrees with science?

Under these conditions, I reject the premise of the question.

Where can I buy a chocolate Easter Jesus?

At what point does a Christian not become a Christian because they are too bad. No True Scotsman logic is very common, there is even a use of the fallacy for those militia men (link below), but where exactly should we draw the line for non-Christians? I mean, Nazis genuinely believed what they were doing was for a better society, but clearly you would associate them as non-Christians because they killed so many people; these militia people were only planning on carrying out a killing, so who knows if you will still accept them based on your made up criteria. Both of these cases are where people think what they are doing is right, yet when a republican senator cheats on his wife, he knows for a fact that what he was doing was bad and yet does it regardless, but surely that isn't a criteria for getting into heaven by your particular standards. What about Stem Cell research? A scientist may be killing thousands of innocent souls, but s/he is doing for the sake of society, would this instance count towards going to hell by your particular standards? Why do you think your particular standards are right anyways? I don't think the holy spirit provided a list of things that signal whether or not it exists within you.

He most definitely did:

Galatians 5:16-26

 16So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

 19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

That being said, I tried to be careful to differentiate between habitual sin and single acts of sin. I am a Christian, and though I have the Holy Spirit in me I am still capable of committing sin (read 1 John 2:1-2). My flesh was crucified with Christ, so sin as a habit is defeated by the Holy Spirit. I don't know where to draw the line between habitual sin and a single act of sin, I think that the Lord deals with us at a personal level and it is difficult to define sin along clear-cut terms as it may vary from one to another.

That being said, I think for things such as genocide and molesting children, we can easily say that no Christian would do something like that, because it implies such an egregious act of rebellion away from the will of the Lord that if the person had in fact accepted the Holy Spirit into his life, he would be incapable of committing such crimes. The no true Scotsman fallacy does not apply, as it assumes that the Scotsman is still capable of committing acts of murder. A better statement would be "Surely a Scotsman would never be a coconut", in which case it is true.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 11:58:05 AM by Canadark »
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But_I_Digress

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #567 on: March 31, 2010, 01:34:27 PM »
Though admittedly I have never read all the way through any other religious text other than the Old and New Testaments (such as the Qur'an), when I read the Bible it did stand out to me.

Do you believe if you were raised in a Muslim home, and was taught at an early age that the Qur'an was the true word and not the bible, that the Qur'an would have stood out to you?


This is the main predicament I have with religion, there are so many in the world, and every one says that they are the truth, that how can only one (if any) be the one?
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 04:25:27 PM by But_I_Digress »
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Sadistic

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #568 on: March 31, 2010, 05:00:48 PM »
Where can I buy a chocolate Easter Jesus?

At what point does a Christian not become a Christian because they are too bad. No True Scotsman logic is very common, there is even a use of the fallacy for those militia men (link below), but where exactly should we draw the line for non-Christians? I mean, Nazis genuinely believed what they were doing was for a better society, but clearly you would associate them as non-Christians because they killed so many people; these militia people were only planning on carrying out a killing, so who knows if you will still accept them based on your made up criteria. Both of these cases are where people think what they are doing is right, yet when a republican senator cheats on his wife, he knows for a fact that what he was doing was bad and yet does it regardless, but surely that isn't a criteria for getting into heaven by your particular standards. What about Stem Cell research? A scientist may be killing thousands of innocent souls, but s/he is doing for the sake of society, would this instance count towards going to hell by your particular standards? Why do you think your particular standards are right anyways? I don't think the holy spirit provided a list of things that signal whether or not it exists within you.

He most definitely did:

Galatians 5:16-26

 16So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

 19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

That being said, I tried to be careful to differentiate between habitual sin and single acts of sin. I am a Christian, and though I have the Holy Spirit in me I am still capable of committing sin (read 1 John 2:1-2). My flesh was crucified with Christ, so sin as a habit is defeated by the Holy Spirit. I don't know where to draw the line between habitual sin and a single act of sin, I think that the Lord deals with us at a personal level and it is difficult to define sin along clear-cut terms as it may vary from one to another.

That being said, I think for things such as genocide and molesting children, we can easily say that no Christian would do something like that, because it implies such an egregious act of rebellion away from the will of the Lord that if the person had in fact accepted the Holy Spirit into his life, he would be incapable of committing such crimes. The no true Scotsman fallacy does not apply, as it assumes that the Scotsman is still capable of committing acts of murder. A better statement would be "Surely a Scotsman would never be a coconut", in which case it is true.

The no true scotsman fallacy still applies, because your the one drawing the line. When you say 'That being said, I think for things such as genocide and molesting children, we can easily say that no Christian would do something like that, because it implies such an egregious act of rebellion away from the will of the Lord that if the person had in fact accepted the Holy Spirit into his life, he would be incapable of committing such crimes." Yet the text you provided me claims "19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like." These bold ones are not uncommon in regular everyday people, and if your using this as your source of attributes that disqualify you from having the holy spirit, who are you to say that genocide disqualifies someone from Christianity but cheating on your wife does not? I smell Scotsman.
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Nomad

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #569 on: March 31, 2010, 06:24:59 PM »
For what it's worth, I have read the Hebrew Bible, but it is included as part of the Christian Bible as well.

No, you've read the Old Testament, unless I'm reading you incorrectly.  While much of the Hebrew bible (Tanakh) is included, there are plenty of parts both added and subtracted, not to mention the differences in language versus biblical translations and the original Hebrew and Aramaic.
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