Ask a Christian anything.

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Canadark

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #270 on: March 13, 2010, 12:45:46 PM »
Why do you believe in Christianity and not Islam?

I'm not going to lie, it is based on a hunch.

Isn't it more likely based on how you were raised?  If you were raised by Islamic parents I imagine your hunch would be to believe Islam over Christianity.

It comes from both. I have no doubt that my parents' being Christian has made it more likely that I would be a Christian, but in the absence of concrete empirical proof that God exists, my belief comes from faith. I read the wisdom of the Bible and it leads me to believe that it is inspired by a higher power. I feel as though the Holy Spirit lives in me, and that is reflected through my conduct. But I don't have any proof for the existence of God that you would believe. I know that Zambia exists, even though I have no real evidence to say that it does. You could try to torture me to the point that I would say that it doesn't, but that doesn't change the reality in my mind. I could torture you until you profess to being a Christian (hey, its been tried before!) but that wouldn't change the fact that no matter what I do to you, you wouldn't believe it unless you actually choose to.

These are three persons that make up one single Godhead.

God is a person?

Yes, in accordance with definitions 2 and 7: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/person
 ;)
That is the primary reason I call myself agnostic.  After having been raised Christian it is very hard to let go of that superstitious belief in the supernatural, but logically I understand it isn't very likely. 

Why do you believe in Christianity and not Islam?

I'm not going to lie, it is based on a hunch.

Isn't it more likely based on how you were raised?  If you were raised by Islamic parents I imagine your hunch would be to believe Islam over Christianity.

And there you have one of the reasons why I am an atheist. Being born in an islamic household would leave you with little choice in your personal religion for example. Why would a christian god punish such a person for an accident of birth? It makes no sense and there is frankly no good explanation for it.

You are an atheist because Muslim parents tend to have Muslim kids?

I believe Christ died to save everybody's sins. You only go to hell if you have the gospel presented to you but choose to reject it. To say that you are not theistic because some people are more likely to believe in God than others because of their circumstances doesn't really justify atheism IMO.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #271 on: March 13, 2010, 12:53:20 PM »
You didn't really understand the point he was making then. 
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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theonlydann

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #272 on: March 13, 2010, 01:24:01 PM »
But i thought Jesus WAS God... So he has some internal conflict? Is God bipolar? Multiple personality? WTF!!! How is God gonna split himself up like so!

Christians believe in the idea of the trinity, which is the idea that God reveals himself in three forms; as the father, the son, and the Holy Spirit. These are three persons that make up one single Godhead.
Not all Christians.
Reasons given for rejecting the doctrine of the Trinity include:
It is not mentioned in the Bible
It does not make philosophical sense
It is not compatible with monotheism
It is not necessary in order to explain the "specialness" of Jesus

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Canadark

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #273 on: March 13, 2010, 01:32:18 PM »
You didn't really understand the point he was making then. 

But in the context of Christianity, people who never have contact with the gospel have had their sins forgiven. So what difference does it make if you were raised in a Christian environment or not, and why would that justify being an atheist.?
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Friedrich

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #274 on: March 13, 2010, 01:35:15 PM »
You didn't really understand the point he was making then. 

But in the context of Christianity, people who never have contact with the gospel have had their sins forgiven. So what difference does it make if you were raised in a Christian environment or not, and why would that justify being an atheist.?

I would venture to guess that most Muslims know of the christian faith and actively reject it. By your logic and reasoning those people would burn in hell. Further, would you agree that a child born into an islamic household has an extremely high chance to be a muslim himself/herself and burn in hell with no fault of their own?

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Canadark

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #275 on: March 13, 2010, 01:37:52 PM »
But i thought Jesus WAS God... So he has some internal conflict? Is God bipolar? Multiple personality? WTF!!! How is God gonna split himself up like so!

Christians believe in the idea of the trinity, which is the idea that God reveals himself in three forms; as the father, the son, and the Holy Spirit. These are three persons that make up one single Godhead.
Not all Christians.
Reasons given for rejecting the doctrine of the Trinity include:
It is not mentioned in the Bible
It does not make philosophical sense
It is not compatible with monotheism
It is not necessary in order to explain the "specialness" of Jesus

1. Allusions to the trinity are made in:
John 1
Mathew 28
Philippians 2
1 John 2

2. What part of the notion of the trilogy do you find philosophically nonsensical?

3. It is only incompatible with monotheism if you misinterpret what we mean by the trinity.

4. Of course it is not necessary, but we consider it to be reality.
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Canadark

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #276 on: March 13, 2010, 01:42:02 PM »
You didn't really understand the point he was making then. 

But in the context of Christianity, people who never have contact with the gospel have had their sins forgiven. So what difference does it make if you were raised in a Christian environment or not, and why would that justify being an atheist.?

I would venture to guess that most Muslims know of the christian faith and actively reject it. By your logic and reasoning those people would burn in hell. Further, would you agree that a child born into an islamic household has an extremely high chance to be a muslim himself/herself and burn in hell with no fault of their own?

If somebody doesn't have the gospel presented to them correctly, then they can't be judged according to its standards. If somebody does have it presented to them correctly but they choose to reject it, Jesus will not advocate for them on judgment day and they will go to hell (so to answer your question, no).
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Friedrich

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #277 on: March 13, 2010, 01:45:03 PM »
So, you wouldn't agree that a person who got hammered day by day with the teachings of Islam, whose whole family and every friend is a Muslim and who faces serious consequences (possibly death) for even considering Christianity as an alternative, would be unfairly and unjustly judged, even when we present them the gospel in the "correct way"?

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Canadark

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #278 on: March 13, 2010, 01:51:24 PM »
So, you wouldn't agree that a person who got hammered day by day with the teachings of Islam, whose whole family and every friend is a Muslim and who faces serious consequences (possibly death) for even considering Christianity as an alternative, would be unfairly and unjustly judged, even when we present them the gospel in the "correct way"?

Correct. I would not agree.
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Friedrich

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #279 on: March 13, 2010, 01:55:32 PM »
So, you wouldn't agree that a person who got hammered day by day with the teachings of Islam, whose whole family and every friend is a Muslim and who faces serious consequences (possibly death) for even considering Christianity as an alternative, would be unfairly and unjustly judged, even when we present them the gospel in the "correct way"?

Correct. I would not agree.

Why? Here you have a person who rejects the gospel actively after having it presented in the correct way, but it all happened because he/she was born in the "wrong" region for a christian god.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #280 on: March 13, 2010, 02:36:52 PM »
You didn't really understand the point he was making then. 

But in the context of Christianity, people who never have contact with the gospel have had their sins forgiven. So what difference does it make if you were raised in a Christian environment or not, and why would that justify being an atheist.?

Where does it say that the people who never have contact with the gospel are forgiven their sins?
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Areweonfiya

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #281 on: March 13, 2010, 02:50:27 PM »
So, you wouldn't agree that a person who got hammered day by day with the teachings of Islam, whose whole family and every friend is a Muslim and who faces serious consequences (possibly death) for even considering Christianity as an alternative, would be unfairly and unjustly judged, even when we present them the gospel in the "correct way"?

Correct. I would not agree.

Why? Here you have a person who rejects the gospel actively after having it presented in the correct way, but it all happened because he/she was born in the "wrong" region for a christian god.

What is the "correct way" for Christianity to be explained anyways? There are hundreds of branches of Christianity all with different beliefs, ranging from not using technology to having a pope.  How can you say there is one correct way in all of this?

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Canadark

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #282 on: March 13, 2010, 03:06:10 PM »
So, you wouldn't agree that a person who got hammered day by day with the teachings of Islam, whose whole family and every friend is a Muslim and who faces serious consequences (possibly death) for even considering Christianity as an alternative, would be unfairly and unjustly judged, even when we present them the gospel in the "correct way"?

Correct. I would not agree.

Why? Here you have a person who rejects the gospel actively after having it presented in the correct way, but it all happened because he/she was born in the "wrong" region for a christian god.

I believe that if somebody rejects the gospel even after it is presented to them clearly, it is because they willfully hardened their heart against it. This is based on the idea that the gospel is actually "good news" and that its message appeals to what we as humans desire. In my experience, people who come from a non-Christian environment are much more likely to be open to Christianity than those who come from the West. This is why right now the evangelical church in places like Iran, Nigeria, and China is growing in leaps and bounds but is lagging severely in countries like the United States and Canada, and even waning in much of Western Europe.

You didn't really understand the point he was making then.  

But in the context of Christianity, people who never have contact with the gospel have had their sins forgiven. So what difference does it make if you were raised in a Christian environment or not, and why would that justify being an atheist.?

Where does it say that the people who never have contact with the gospel are forgiven their sins?

1 John 2:1-2
"My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."

What is the "correct way" for Christianity to be explained anyways? There are hundreds of branches of Christianity all with different beliefs, ranging from not using technology to having a pope.  How can you say there is one correct way in all of this?

Among the hundreds of branches of Christianity, there is underlying belief in the saving power of Jesus Christ, the son of God, and the need for mankind to have a saviour. Dogma and Church traditions are second to this central concept and offer nothing in the way of salvation. This idea (the gospel) must be presented in a way that people can understand it.

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Friedrich

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #283 on: March 13, 2010, 03:12:45 PM »
We are arguing in circles. I will repeat:

So, you wouldn't agree that a person who got hammered day by day with the teachings of Islam, whose whole family and every friend is a Muslim and who faces serious consequences (possibly death) for even considering Christianity as an alternative, would be unfairly and unjustly judged, even when we present them the gospel in the "correct way"?

Take note of the circumstances I describe. Are you telling me this person has "willfully hardened their heart against it"? Isn't it more of a fact that he/she never had a real choice and your faith will see him/her burn for it?

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Canadark

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #284 on: March 13, 2010, 03:28:57 PM »
We are arguing in circles. I will repeat:

So, you wouldn't agree that a person who got hammered day by day with the teachings of Islam, whose whole family and every friend is a Muslim and who faces serious consequences (possibly death) for even considering Christianity as an alternative, would be unfairly and unjustly judged, even when we present them the gospel in the "correct way"?

Take note of the circumstances I describe. Are you telling me this person has "willfully hardened their heart against it"? Isn't it more of a fact that he/she never had a real choice and your faith will see him/her burn for it?

Yes, but my experience has lent me to believe that people who have ideas contrary to Christianity hammered into them at a young age are actually more receptive to the gospel. One needs look no further for evidence of this than the millions of people in much of the global south who have faced harassment, stigmatization, or even death for converting to Christianity. The people who I know who are the most resistant to the idea of Christianity are those who come from western Christian households but rejected the faith when they became adults.
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Friedrich

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #285 on: March 13, 2010, 03:33:34 PM »
We are arguing in circles. I will repeat:

So, you wouldn't agree that a person who got hammered day by day with the teachings of Islam, whose whole family and every friend is a Muslim and who faces serious consequences (possibly death) for even considering Christianity as an alternative, would be unfairly and unjustly judged, even when we present them the gospel in the "correct way"?

Take note of the circumstances I describe. Are you telling me this person has "willfully hardened their heart against it"? Isn't it more of a fact that he/she never had a real choice and your faith will see him/her burn for it?

Yes, but my experience has lent me to believe that people who have ideas contrary to Christianity hammered into them at a young age are actually more receptive to the gospel. One needs look no further for evidence of this than the millions of people in much of the global south who have faced harassment, stigmatization, or even death for converting to Christianity. The people who I know who are the most resistant to the idea of Christianity are those who come from western Christian households but rejected the faith when they became adults.

I honestly think we won't come to a conclusion, but I thank you for the civil debate and for the interesting insight.

Another question popped into my mind though, after reading what you wrote:

Why do you think that those "who come from western Christian households" are most likely to reject the faith? What kind of correlation do you see between those two?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 03:39:25 PM by Friedrich »

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #286 on: March 13, 2010, 03:59:08 PM »
It also says in there somewhere that you have to "believe" in Jesus in order to get into heaven, I don't think the scripture you quoted means that people who have never heard of Jesus are gonna get in.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Areweonfiya

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #287 on: March 13, 2010, 05:11:54 PM »
It also says in there somewhere that you have to "believe" in Jesus in order to get into heaven, I don't think the scripture you quoted means that people who have never heard of Jesus are gonna get in.

The only argument for that is that "God is fair and understanding" ect. ect. since it is not clearly put forth in the Bible.
However, if this really were the case, than wouldn't we be better off if no one had ever heard of the bible?

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #288 on: March 13, 2010, 05:21:13 PM »
I was thinking the same thing.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #289 on: March 13, 2010, 05:25:13 PM »
Are some priests elaborate trolls?
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Friedrich

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #290 on: March 13, 2010, 05:27:33 PM »
It also says in there somewhere that you have to "believe" in Jesus in order to get into heaven, I don't think the scripture you quoted means that people who have never heard of Jesus are gonna get in.

The only argument for that is that "God is fair and understanding" ect. ect. since it is not clearly put forth in the Bible.
However, if this really were the case, than wouldn't we be better off if no one had ever heard of the bible?

You really can't debate religion on a logical level. There is always some creed that invalidates what you just pointed out or someone pulls a pope on you and just declares that they simply change the divinely inspired word of god. It gets a little tiring after a while.

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General Douchebag

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #291 on: March 13, 2010, 07:26:22 PM »
Are some priests elaborate trolls?

The Pope has his own exorcist, so I'd say so.
No but I'm guess your what? 90? Cause you just so darn mature </sarcasm>

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Canadark

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #292 on: March 13, 2010, 09:10:43 PM »
It also says in there somewhere that you have to "believe" in Jesus in order to get into heaven, I don't think the scripture you quoted means that people who have never heard of Jesus are gonna get in.

The only argument for that is that "God is fair and understanding" ect. ect. since it is not clearly put forth in the Bible.
However, if this really were the case, than wouldn't we be better off if no one had ever heard of the bible?

There are different schools of thought, for sure, and there is scriptural basis to support either view, depending on how you interpret it. My understanding of God's character has led me to believe that he wouldn't punish people who never had a chance to hear the gospel; I hope I'm not wrong.


I honestly think we won't come to a conclusion, but I thank you for the civil debate and for the interesting insight.

Another question popped into my mind though, after reading what you wrote:

Why do you think that those "who come from western Christian households" are most likely to reject the faith? What kind of correlation do you see between those two?

Thank you for your candor. Debating these issues is difficult when a consensus can't be reached on what actually constitutes truth. Christianity and atheism offer completely different paradigms through which we view the universe, and it is important to recognize this. Part of being a Christian means believing that the stuff in the Bible is actually true, and that the gospel has near universal appeal. When I say that somebody who is presented the gospel correctly has a good chance of believing it, I base that on the idea that it will appeal to him or her, and that the Holy Spirit will convict him or her of their sins and need for salvation (unless they have hardened their heart to it). If that doesn't happen, than what I believe can't be true.

 As for the quote, I actually said, "The people who I know who are the most resistant to the idea of Christianity are those who come from western Christian households but rejected the faith when they became adults."

This is not to say that people who come from Christian households are less likely to become Christians, just that those who grew up with Christian parents but rejected the gospel always seem to be more resistant to it.
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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #293 on: March 13, 2010, 09:12:09 PM »
So is exorcism a legit part of Christianity?
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Canadark

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #294 on: March 13, 2010, 09:12:34 PM »
Quote from: Areweonfiya link=topic=36894.msg923836#msg923836
However, if this really were the case, than wouldn't we be better off if no one had ever heard of the bible?


You present an interesting theory. But if the Bible were true, wouldn't you want to know about it?
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Canadark

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #295 on: March 13, 2010, 09:13:05 PM »
So is exorcism a legit part of Christianity?

Yes.
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Sean

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #296 on: March 13, 2010, 09:20:21 PM »
Can God make 2 hats that are cooler than each other?
Quote from: sokarul
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Areweonfiya

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #297 on: March 13, 2010, 10:33:33 PM »
Quote from: Areweonfiya link=topic=36894.msg923836#msg923836
However, if this really were the case, than wouldn't we be better off if no one had ever heard of the bible?


You present an interesting theory. But if the Bible were true, wouldn't you want to know about it?

Zomfg a paradox

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Canadark

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #298 on: March 14, 2010, 05:21:49 PM »
Can God make 2 hats that are cooler than each other?

This is at least the third time this concept has been brought up in this thread.

God cannot do things that defy his nature, or the laws by which the universe he created operates (EDIT: in philosophical terms).
« Last Edit: March 14, 2010, 06:04:05 PM by Canadark »
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Pongo

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Re: Ask a Christian anything.
« Reply #299 on: March 14, 2010, 09:27:52 PM »
Something just occurred to me.  When I first saw this thread, I thought it was pointless and watched with mild interest as a few obvious questions were thrown up along side some more interesting ones.  I even tossed in a couple questions once I saw a 'checkmate scenario' present itself.  However, as more and more questions were answered by self-proclaimed Christians, two things became obvious.  This was a fertile thread to spread Christian propaganda -- something that I did see coming -- and that nearly all the answers provided are based entirely on conjecture -- something that I should have seen coming.  Things like, "God cannot do things outside of its nature," or "Angels possess a different form of free-will than mankind," or perhaps most important is the notion that the answerer(s) have a strong enough knowledge on the subject to even be answering.  The two former paraphrases are things that can never, nor will ever, be able to be answered without literally evoking deus ex machina.  Yet they are presented as factual; as if they satisfy the question entirely.  This is where my thought occurred to me that I mentioned in the first sentence.

This thread serves no purpose but to give religion credence where none should exist.  By asking questions and having them answered, whether they are truthful answers or not, gives the impression that religion has all the answers.  There is no point in trying to corner a Christian with logic, they can always fall back on saying that their deity operates outside the confines of the laws of nature that govern us, or that they cannot pretend to understand the will of an omnipotent being.  And while those answers are wholly weightless, they still give the illusion of being answered.  After all, the chances of trying to use logic to dissuade a Christian from their faith is extremely difficult.  By definition, faith is something that a person must embrace despite any amount of reason, logic, or facts presented to the contrary.

So people, pose your questions wisely.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2010, 09:29:54 PM by Pongo »