Is Flat Earth the center of the Universe?

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jtelroy

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Is Flat Earth the center of the Universe?
« on: February 25, 2010, 05:00:36 PM »
One of the things I hear many FE'ers argue is the "original" theories are the ones that are correct, and time has in some way or another caused us to stray and distrust these ideals.

Well, how about the theory that the Earth is the center of the universe?  And the accompanying theory that all celestial bodies are affixed in gigantic glass spheres which spin about our Earth?  Why are these oft forgotten and discarded theories not mentioned alongside FET?

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Thermal Detonator

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Re: Is Flat Earth the center of the Universe?
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2010, 05:12:04 PM »
Why are these oft forgotten and discarded theories not mentioned alongside FET?

Because they aren't silly enough.
Gayer doesn't live in an atmosphere of vaporised mustard like you appear to, based on your latest photo.

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jtelroy

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Re: Is Flat Earth the center of the Universe?
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2010, 05:21:53 PM »
Why are these oft forgotten and discarded theories not mentioned alongside FET?

Because they aren't silly enough.

I thought the crystal spheres might be...

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Drdevice

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Re: Is Flat Earth the center of the Universe?
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2010, 07:42:22 PM »
For the most part they base the system off of "earth not a globe" and in the book those things are not mentioned.

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jtelroy

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Re: Is Flat Earth the center of the Universe?
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2010, 08:04:21 PM »
For the most part they base the system off of "earth not a globe" and in the book those things are not mentioned.

Yeah I've read some of that book.  And found its math to be incredibly inaccurate.  Not that that stopped Bishop.

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Ski

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Re: Is Flat Earth the center of the Universe?
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2010, 08:30:46 PM »
Well, how about the theory that the Earth is the center of the universe?  And the accompanying theory that all celestial bodies are affixed in gigantic glass spheres which spin about our Earth?  Why are these oft forgotten and discarded theories not mentioned alongside FET?

The earth is the center of the visible universe. It need not be the center of the entire universe, but is certainly at the hub of that part of it which is visible. (Coincidentally, RET espouses that any observer sees himself or herself as the center of the universe). 
I don't think there are gigantic glass spheres spinning about the earth, but I've frequently wondered if space were something other than a vacuum. Does this count?
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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jtelroy

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Re: Is Flat Earth the center of the Universe?
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2010, 08:33:25 PM »
Well, how about the theory that the Earth is the center of the universe?  And the accompanying theory that all celestial bodies are affixed in gigantic glass spheres which spin about our Earth?  Why are these oft forgotten and discarded theories not mentioned alongside FET?

The earth is the center of the visible universe. It need not be the center of the entire universe, but is certainly at the hub of that part of it which is visible. (Coincidentally, RET espouses that any observer sees himself or herself as the center of the universe). 
I don't think there are gigantic glass spheres spinning about the earth, but I've frequently wondered if space were something other than a vacuum. Does this count?

Yeah, that's a pretty good answer.

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SupahLovah

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Re: Is Flat Earth the center of the Universe?
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2010, 10:53:16 AM »
I've frequently wondered if space were something other than a vacuum. Does this count?
Space obviously isn't a vacuum. If it were, it would be much noisier and asking us men to lift our feet.
"Study Gravitation; It's a field with a lot of potential!"

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DanielPZC

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Re: Is Flat Earth the center of the Universe?
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2010, 01:10:31 PM »
There is no such thing as "space", Heaven is located outside the atmosphere or "circle of the Earth" as the Bible calls it.

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Drdevice

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Re: Is Flat Earth the center of the Universe?
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2010, 01:16:09 PM »
Heaven also directly translates to "sky" so in other words god resides in the sky with his angels and after we die we go to join him. The origional chart of heaven actualy depicted the planets as diffrent layers of heaven.*

*dante's paradiso
« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 01:18:15 PM by Drdevice »

Re: Is Flat Earth the center of the Universe?
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2010, 01:30:52 PM »
There is no such thing as "space", Heaven is located outside the atmosphere or "circle of the Earth" as the Bible calls it.

sorry god is dead, there is no heaven, there is no hell, but there is space.

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SupahLovah

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Re: Is Flat Earth the center of the Universe?
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2010, 08:47:43 AM »
Heaven also directly translates to "sky" so in other words god resides in the sky with his angels and after we die we go to join him. The origional chart of heaven actualy depicted the planets as diffrent layers of heaven.*

*dante's paradiso
Since when does a poet from the middle ages have a deciding factor in heaven and hell?
"Study Gravitation; It's a field with a lot of potential!"

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Drdevice

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Re: Is Flat Earth the center of the Universe?
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2010, 02:53:58 PM »
His work was of the beliefs at the time period combined with the science of the time. It is basically a poem about his beliefs to an extent.

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flyingmonkey

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Re: Is Flat Earth the center of the Universe?
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2010, 06:00:20 PM »
Since when does a poet from the middle ages have a deciding factor in heaven and hell?


The Bible was written by Men.


Why do they have a deciding factor?

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Drdevice

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Re: Is Flat Earth the center of the Universe?
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2010, 01:07:39 AM »
Why do the spirits of men lead them to the crimes of passion they do? Why are those who sacrifice and die for others put into song and tales when they gave up that which is most precious? Who can truly say they know a man when he himself cannot even clam that? Why are we so quick to judge others before we judge ourselves? Some things in this world, my friend, need to be taken in faith. For truth is a hard thing to come by, and it is always in dwindling supply.

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flyingmonkey

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Re: Is Flat Earth the center of the Universe?
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2010, 01:35:55 AM »
While I will agree with some of the messages and ideals the Bible tries to convey, I will not believe the religion.

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jimspade

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Re: Is Flat Earth the center of the Universe?
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2010, 04:14:43 AM »
While I will agree with some of the messages and ideals the Bible tries to convey, I will not believe the religion.

Indeed. You start taking things too literally and end up balls deep in genocide.
It was Tom Bishop that said those ridiculous things, he is the ultimate foe in regards to FE trolls.

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markjo

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Re: Is Flat Earth the center of the Universe?
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2010, 05:35:45 AM »
Why do the spirits of men lead them to the crimes of passion they do? Why are those who sacrifice and die for others put into song and tales when they gave up that which is most precious? Who can truly say they know a man when he himself cannot even clam that? Why are we so quick to judge others before we judge ourselves?

"Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Shadow knows!"
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Is Flat Earth the center of the Universe?
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2010, 07:26:18 AM »
Why do the spirits of men lead them to the crimes of passion they do? Why are those who sacrifice and die for others put into song and tales when they gave up that which is most precious? Who can truly say they know a man when he himself cannot even clam that? Why are we so quick to judge others before we judge ourselves?

"Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Shadow knows!"

Is that from Alpha Centauri?
There is evidence for a NASA conspiracy. Please search.

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trig

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Re: Is Flat Earth the center of the Universe?
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2010, 09:23:42 AM »
One of the things I hear many FE'ers argue is the "original" theories are the ones that are correct, and time has in some way or another caused us to stray and distrust these ideals.

Well, how about the theory that the Earth is the center of the universe?  And the accompanying theory that all celestial bodies are affixed in gigantic glass spheres which spin about our Earth?  Why are these oft forgotten and discarded theories not mentioned alongside FET?
This idea, that was popular from Classic Greek times till the middle ages, is a lot better than any one proposed in this forum and explained (as far as the experts of the time required) most of the Cosmos. But in the last 150 years the most unacceptable failing of this scheme became impossible to conceal: it does not account for time zones.

The FE "theories" sort of account for time zones (if you do not look too closely) but do so at the expense of every other phenomena that was partly explained before.

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jtelroy

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Re: Is Flat Earth the center of the Universe?
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2010, 10:10:44 AM »
wow this topic diverged on many a few pathways.

As for the Dante comments,  The Divine Comedy defined the western view of hell, purgatory and heaven until pretty much today, so it has some weight.  Of course its only a speculation, but scientifically religion is only speculation so it works.

As for the time zones:  I haven't heard an FE response for that, but I'll bet they have one, since they have one for everything.  Probably will say that Time zones are either a conspiracy or an illusion/trick of the mind.  But if you really want to hear whatever odd explanation they have for it, post the question

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Drdevice

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Re: Is Flat Earth the center of the Universe?
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2010, 10:26:25 AM »
They talk about how the sun is a spot light, but it doesn't really explain why its not a perfect circle around the FET model.

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trig

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Re: Is Flat Earth the center of the Universe?
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2010, 12:29:41 PM »
They talk about how the sun is a spot light, but it doesn't really explain why its not a perfect circle around the FET model.
Granted, FE's explanation of time zones is very poor: "at noon in Japan we cannot see the Sun because it is very close to the horizon and very far away and the Sun is a spotlight" is as lame as an explanation can be.

But what else can you expect from a Flat Earth Society? The existence of time zones is undeniable, so there are few choices left to those that choose to believe in a flat Earth.

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ERTW

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Re: Is Flat Earth the center of the Universe?
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2010, 12:03:21 AM »
There is no such thing as "space", Heaven is located outside the atmosphere or "circle of the Earth" as the Bible calls it.
Name the verse.
Don't diss physics until you try it!

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Thomas

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Re: Is Flat Earth the center of the Universe?
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2010, 08:08:34 PM »
In my opinion, under either the RET or FET, the Earth can be said to be in a central position in the universe.  Without a fixed frame of reference, how are we to say that the earth revolves around the sun, or the sun and the heavenly bodies around the earth?  Motion in this sense depends upon the position of the observer, and since we are located on earth as opposed to some random point in the cosmos, this is the best frame of reference as any for our purposes.

With all other arguments aside, the chief response to such a position is usually a reference to Newtonian physics: a body of lesser mass will revolve around the body with greater mass.  In an isolated system, a smaller planet will always revolve around the larger one.  However, the universe is not an isolated system: it includes all objects, both known and unknown, which displaces the center of mass.  It very well could be that the earth is positioned directly in the center of mass of the entire universe, and as such is the unmoving pivot upon which all else turns.  Is it? Who knows; we aren't able to step back and view the universe as a whole, to see what our absolute position is. So until we're able to hold the cosmos in the palm of our hand and see just how it is organized in an absolute sense, we have to realize the relativity inherent in our assumptions.
"A procession of the damned. By the damned, I mean the excluded. We shall have a procession of data that Science has excluded. Battalions of the accursed, captained by pallid data that I have exhumed, will march. You'll read them -- or they'll march." - Charles Fort

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flyingmonkey

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Re: Is Flat Earth the center of the Universe?
« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2010, 02:29:16 AM »
The fact that we observe other larger planets revolve around the Sun, and that they don't revolve around Earth gives it away.


I'll let you figure out how they work it out exactly.

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Thomas

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Re: Is Flat Earth the center of the Universe?
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2010, 08:07:19 AM »
The fact that we observe other larger planets revolve around the Sun, and that they don't revolve around Earth gives it away.


I'll let you figure out how they work it out exactly.

Not at all. The Neo-Tychonian model posits the planets of the solar system orbiting the sun, while the sun along with the planets orbit the earth.  That model is just as feasible, as it has been used with accuracy in determining the location of heavenly bodies, the cycles of natural occurrences, and so forth.

On the matter of a larger planet orbiting a smaller one, we would not observe such a phenomenon except if a planet were situated precisely in the center of mass of the universe.  If we're at the center, and there is only one center, then we would not see it elsewhere.

If you claim there is no center of the universe, through the mysterious workings of dark matter which causes a homogeneous expansion of space, then any frame of reference can be referred to as the center. It is relative.  If that is the case, then what better frame of reference than that point on which we currently reside?  Even if you decide that some random point is preferable, for whatever reason, you can't dispute that it is a relative choice; hence, the geocentric position can also be adopted with the same ease.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2010, 08:12:15 AM by Thomas »
"A procession of the damned. By the damned, I mean the excluded. We shall have a procession of data that Science has excluded. Battalions of the accursed, captained by pallid data that I have exhumed, will march. You'll read them -- or they'll march." - Charles Fort

Re: Is Flat Earth the center of the Universe?
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2010, 08:59:31 AM »
The fact that we observe other larger planets revolve around the Sun, and that they don't revolve around Earth gives it away.


I'll let you figure out how they work it out exactly.

Not at all. The Neo-Tychonian model posits the planets of the solar system orbiting the sun, while the sun along with the planets orbit the earth.  That model is just as feasible, as it has been used with accuracy in determining the location of heavenly bodies, the cycles of natural occurrences, and so forth.

On the matter of a larger planet orbiting a smaller one, we would not observe such a phenomenon except if a planet were situated precisely in the center of mass of the universe.  If we're at the center, and there is only one center, then we would not see it elsewhere.

If you claim there is no center of the universe, through the mysterious workings of dark matter which causes a homogeneous expansion of space, then any frame of reference can be referred to as the center. It is relative.  If that is the case, then what better frame of reference than that point on which we currently reside?  Even if you decide that some random point is preferable, for whatever reason, you can't dispute that it is a relative choice; hence, the geocentric position can also be adopted with the same ease.

Seems you're just trying to warp thought so that it may adhere to your beliefs Thomas. Whatever the Neo-Tynchonic model is to you, it's wrong.
My city was betrayed by the weak..

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Thomas

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Re: Is Flat Earth the center of the Universe?
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2010, 11:47:25 AM »
The fact that we observe other larger planets revolve around the Sun, and that they don't revolve around Earth gives it away.


I'll let you figure out how they work it out exactly.

Not at all. The Neo-Tychonian model posits the planets of the solar system orbiting the sun, while the sun along with the planets orbit the earth.  That model is just as feasible, as it has been used with accuracy in determining the location of heavenly bodies, the cycles of natural occurrences, and so forth.

On the matter of a larger planet orbiting a smaller one, we would not observe such a phenomenon except if a planet were situated precisely in the center of mass of the universe.  If we're at the center, and there is only one center, then we would not see it elsewhere.

If you claim there is no center of the universe, through the mysterious workings of dark matter which causes a homogeneous expansion of space, then any frame of reference can be referred to as the center. It is relative.  If that is the case, then what better frame of reference than that point on which we currently reside?  Even if you decide that some random point is preferable, for whatever reason, you can't dispute that it is a relative choice; hence, the geocentric position can also be adopted with the same ease.

Seems you're just trying to warp thought so that it may adhere to your beliefs Thomas. Whatever the Neo-Tynchonic model is to you, it's wrong.


That's a very convincing argument!  "I don't know what the model you're discussing is, or how it works; but it's obviously wrong."  Talk about truly warped thought.  ::)
"A procession of the damned. By the damned, I mean the excluded. We shall have a procession of data that Science has excluded. Battalions of the accursed, captained by pallid data that I have exhumed, will march. You'll read them -- or they'll march." - Charles Fort

Re: Is Flat Earth the center of the Universe?
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2010, 02:31:34 PM »
The fact that we observe other larger planets revolve around the Sun, and that they don't revolve around Earth gives it away.


I'll let you figure out how they work it out exactly.

Not at all. The Neo-Tychonian model posits the planets of the solar system orbiting the sun, while the sun along with the planets orbit the earth.  That model is just as feasible, as it has been used with accuracy in determining the location of heavenly bodies, the cycles of natural occurrences, and so forth.

On the matter of a larger planet orbiting a smaller one, we would not observe such a phenomenon except if a planet were situated precisely in the center of mass of the universe.  If we're at the center, and there is only one center, then we would not see it elsewhere.

If you claim there is no center of the universe, through the mysterious workings of dark matter which causes a homogeneous expansion of space, then any frame of reference can be referred to as the center. It is relative.  If that is the case, then what better frame of reference than that point on which we currently reside?  Even if you decide that some random point is preferable, for whatever reason, you can't dispute that it is a relative choice; hence, the geocentric position can also be adopted with the same ease.

Seems you're just trying to warp thought so that it may adhere to your beliefs Thomas. Whatever the Neo-Tynchonic model is to you, it's wrong.


That's a very convincing argument!  "I don't know what the model you're discussing is, or how it works; but it's obviously wrong."  Talk about truly warped thought.  ::)

Warp my quotes to fit your point and assume my ignorance on your model if you like. Either way I see no evidence coming from your corner supporting said model, just a few paragraphs of baseless nonsense.
My city was betrayed by the weak..