LOTR myths: Was Gandalf Also a Warrior?

His ascension to power also was completely unreasonable

Please don't post religious hate speak. Gandalf had already completed his ascension to power long before the account of the battle against Sauron in LOTR.

Instead of posting vile and sacrilegious vomit you should take comfort from the strength and bravery Gandalf shows when confronting the Balrog of the Mines of Moria. I often turn to this passage when I am in need of strength or have doubt about Gandalf's love for all mankind.

Quote from: Lorddave on June 06, 2010, 01:37:43 PM

Quote from: Crustinator on June 06, 2010, 01:35:30 PM

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on June 06, 2010, 09:54:39 AM

Sometimes I really <3 Crustinator.

Thank you for your kind words. However you should think about loving Gandalf. Only he holds the key to true redemption and eternal happiness.

I too love Gandalf.  His power and leadership knows no bounds.

However...
One must wonder why he didn't use the giant eagles to fly to Mount Doom....

Beginning ubergeek mode.

It's been a while since I read the books, but I believe it was addressed there.  The Nasgul and the Witch King would probably have been a major obstacle, considering the witch king was at least equal in power to gandalf the white, he probably would have been significantly more powerful than Gandalf the Grey, they also had Sauromon to deal with, who was situated between Rivendell and Mt. Doom.  Sauromon was definately more powerful than Gandalf the Grey, and had vast control over many creatures in the region, as well as the weather.  It would have been a plus if they took Elrond with them, who himself had great power, but it still would not have been as easy as you think.  Also, if Gandalf used the ring himself he would have had the power to defeat the dark lord on his own, however it would enevitibly corrupted him into a new Dark Lord.

They also discussed why it was a bad idea to just give the Ring to Tom Bombadil, a being of greater power than Gandalf, who demonstrated that the ring had no power over him.  I believe he called it a "nice trinket".

/end ubergeek mode.

Also, Sauron would have gone 'shit, some fucking eagles! and shot them with billions of arrows and fire and the likes.

Quote from: Marcus Aurelius on June 07, 2010, 09:14:48 AM

Quote from: Lorddave on June 06, 2010, 01:37:43 PM

Quote from: Crustinator on June 06, 2010, 01:35:30 PM

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on June 06, 2010, 09:54:39 AM

Sometimes I really <3 Crustinator.

Thank you for your kind words. However you should think about loving Gandalf. Only he holds the key to true redemption and eternal happiness.

I too love Gandalf.  His power and leadership knows no bounds.

However...
One must wonder why he didn't use the giant eagles to fly to Mount Doom....

Beginning ubergeek mode.

It's been a while since I read the books, but I believe it was addressed there.  The Nasgul and the Witch King would probably have been a major obstacle, considering the witch king was at least equal in power to gandalf the white, he probably would have been significantly more powerful than Gandalf the Grey, they also had Sauromon to deal with, who was situated between Rivendell and Mt. Doom.  Sauromon was definately more powerful than Gandalf the Grey, and had vast control over many creatures in the region, as well as the weather.  It would have been a plus if they took Elrond with them, who himself had great power, but it still would not have been as easy as you think.  Also, if Gandalf used the ring himself he would have had the power to defeat the dark lord on his own, however it would enevitibly corrupted him into a new Dark Lord.

They also discussed why it was a bad idea to just give the Ring to Tom Bombadil, a being of greater power than Gandalf, who demonstrated that the ring had no power over him.  I believe he called it a "nice trinket".

/end ubergeek mode.

Also, Sauron would have gone 'shit, some fucking eagles! and shot them with billions of arrows and fire and the likes.

But if Saruman, who had an Orc Factory as his front Yard, didn't do it, I don't think Sauron would have. Not unless he felt the ring's presence.

Quote from: Eddy Baby on June 07, 2010, 10:26:28 AM

Quote from: Marcus Aurelius on June 07, 2010, 09:14:48 AM

Quote from: Lorddave on June 06, 2010, 01:37:43 PM

Quote from: Crustinator on June 06, 2010, 01:35:30 PM

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on June 06, 2010, 09:54:39 AM

Sometimes I really <3 Crustinator.

Thank you for your kind words. However you should think about loving Gandalf. Only he holds the key to true redemption and eternal happiness.

I too love Gandalf.  His power and leadership knows no bounds.

However...
One must wonder why he didn't use the giant eagles to fly to Mount Doom....

Beginning ubergeek mode.

It's been a while since I read the books, but I believe it was addressed there.  The Nasgul and the Witch King would probably have been a major obstacle, considering the witch king was at least equal in power to gandalf the white, he probably would have been significantly more powerful than Gandalf the Grey, they also had Sauromon to deal with, who was situated between Rivendell and Mt. Doom.  Sauromon was definately more powerful than Gandalf the Grey, and had vast control over many creatures in the region, as well as the weather.  It would have been a plus if they took Elrond with them, who himself had great power, but it still would not have been as easy as you think.  Also, if Gandalf used the ring himself he would have had the power to defeat the dark lord on his own, however it would enevitibly corrupted him into a new Dark Lord.

They also discussed why it was a bad idea to just give the Ring to Tom Bombadil, a being of greater power than Gandalf, who demonstrated that the ring had no power over him.  I believe he called it a "nice trinket".

/end ubergeek mode.

Also, Sauron would have gone 'shit, some fucking eagles! and shot them with billions of arrows and fire and the likes.

But if Saruman, who had an Orc Factory as his front Yard, didn't do it, I don't think Sauron would have. Not unless he felt the ring's presence.

Or if there was a fucking eagle flying into Mordor.

Quote from: Lorddave on June 07, 2010, 12:34:57 PM

Quote from: Eddy Baby on June 07, 2010, 10:26:28 AM

Quote from: Marcus Aurelius on June 07, 2010, 09:14:48 AM

Quote from: Lorddave on June 06, 2010, 01:37:43 PM

Quote from: Crustinator on June 06, 2010, 01:35:30 PM

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on June 06, 2010, 09:54:39 AM

Sometimes I really <3 Crustinator.

Thank you for your kind words. However you should think about loving Gandalf. Only he holds the key to true redemption and eternal happiness.

I too love Gandalf.  His power and leadership knows no bounds.

However...
One must wonder why he didn't use the giant eagles to fly to Mount Doom....

Beginning ubergeek mode.

It's been a while since I read the books, but I believe it was addressed there.  The Nasgul and the Witch King would probably have been a major obstacle, considering the witch king was at least equal in power to gandalf the white, he probably would have been significantly more powerful than Gandalf the Grey, they also had Sauromon to deal with, who was situated between Rivendell and Mt. Doom.  Sauromon was definately more powerful than Gandalf the Grey, and had vast control over many creatures in the region, as well as the weather.  It would have been a plus if they took Elrond with them, who himself had great power, but it still would not have been as easy as you think.  Also, if Gandalf used the ring himself he would have had the power to defeat the dark lord on his own, however it would enevitibly corrupted him into a new Dark Lord.

They also discussed why it was a bad idea to just give the Ring to Tom Bombadil, a being of greater power than Gandalf, who demonstrated that the ring had no power over him.  I believe he called it a "nice trinket".

/end ubergeek mode.

Also, Sauron would have gone 'shit, some fucking eagles! and shot them with billions of arrows and fire and the likes.

But if Saruman, who had an Orc Factory as his front Yard, didn't do it, I don't think Sauron would have. Not unless he felt the ring's presence.

Or if there was a fucking eagle flying into Mordor.

Again, why?  He might as well kill everything that flies in, which would be a massive waste of time.  His efforts were concerned with finding the ring, not bird hunting.  An Eagle would be nothing more than something flying by.  No threat there.  Hell, they could have flown around Mordor and flew to Mount Doom from the other side of the Black Gate.  And one Eagle probably isn't something to raise the alarm about.  I mean, would YOU like to tell the hugely powerful fiery eye that you brought the troops to high alert for a bird?  A bird which was probably flying too high to be hit by arrows?
And the Witch King and his Nerzgul were too busy finding Frodo, searching for the Ring.  They weren't guarding Mordor.

Quote from: Eddy Baby on June 07, 2010, 12:38:43 PM

Quote from: Lorddave on June 07, 2010, 12:34:57 PM

Quote from: Eddy Baby on June 07, 2010, 10:26:28 AM

Quote from: Marcus Aurelius on June 07, 2010, 09:14:48 AM

Quote from: Lorddave on June 06, 2010, 01:37:43 PM

Quote from: Crustinator on June 06, 2010, 01:35:30 PM

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on June 06, 2010, 09:54:39 AM

Sometimes I really <3 Crustinator.

Thank you for your kind words. However you should think about loving Gandalf. Only he holds the key to true redemption and eternal happiness.

I too love Gandalf.  His power and leadership knows no bounds.

However...
One must wonder why he didn't use the giant eagles to fly to Mount Doom....

Beginning ubergeek mode.

It's been a while since I read the books, but I believe it was addressed there.  The Nasgul and the Witch King would probably have been a major obstacle, considering the witch king was at least equal in power to gandalf the white, he probably would have been significantly more powerful than Gandalf the Grey, they also had Sauromon to deal with, who was situated between Rivendell and Mt. Doom.  Sauromon was definately more powerful than Gandalf the Grey, and had vast control over many creatures in the region, as well as the weather.  It would have been a plus if they took Elrond with them, who himself had great power, but it still would not have been as easy as you think.  Also, if Gandalf used the ring himself he would have had the power to defeat the dark lord on his own, however it would enevitibly corrupted him into a new Dark Lord.

They also discussed why it was a bad idea to just give the Ring to Tom Bombadil, a being of greater power than Gandalf, who demonstrated that the ring had no power over him.  I believe he called it a "nice trinket".

/end ubergeek mode.

Also, Sauron would have gone 'shit, some fucking eagles! and shot them with billions of arrows and fire and the likes.

But if Saruman, who had an Orc Factory as his front Yard, didn't do it, I don't think Sauron would have. Not unless he felt the ring's presence.

Or if there was a fucking eagle flying into Mordor.

Again, why?  He might as well kill everything that flies in, which would be a massive waste of time.  His efforts were concerned with finding the ring, not bird hunting.  An Eagle would be nothing more than something flying by.  No threat there.  Hell, they could have flown around Mordor and flew to Mount Doom from the other side of the Black Gate.  And one Eagle probably isn't something to raise the alarm about.  I mean, would YOU like to tell the hugely powerful fiery eye that you brought the troops to high alert for a bird?  A bird which was probably flying too high to be hit by arrows?
And the Witch King and his Nerzgul were too busy finding Frodo, searching for the Ring.  They weren't guarding Mordor.

Gwaihir was fucking huge, dude. And I'd be tempted to say that it would be pretty uncommon for anything to fly into Mordor.

These were not normal eagles.  Ever seen an eagle big enough to ride?  They were nearly the size of the Nazgul.  That said, I doubt arrows would be able to reach the heights they could fly, however both Sauron and Sauromon had other means they could use to stop them.  Sauromon was able to call forth lighting to cause an avalanch from hundreds of miles away, as well as having other flying creatures at his command.  Nine Nazgul with black riders on top led by the Witch King would have been a deadly adversary to a group of eagles, even if they did have both Gandalf and Elrond with them.  Especially considering that nobody in that goup would even have the ability to kill the Witch King, only his mount.

Sauromon was able to call forth lighting to cause an avalanch from hundreds of miles away, as well as having other flying creatures at his command.

If we're on about the books, then there is no evidence of this.

Quote from: Marcus Aurelius on June 07, 2010, 01:00:25 PM

Sauromon was able to call forth lighting to cause an avalanch from hundreds of miles away, as well as having other flying creatures at his command.

If we're on about the books, then there is no evidence of this.

Ah your right, I haven't read them in years.  In the movies he did call forth lightning to block the fellowships path.  The book does imply though that he has some control over weather, since during the snowstorm that forced the fellowship to turn back, it was mentioned that there was a foul voice heard in the wind.  Sarumons main power was his voice.  But that is heavily implied.  If he did have control over such things, then it likely would have been quite an obstacle.

Quote from: Eddy Baby on June 07, 2010, 01:04:29 PM

Quote from: Marcus Aurelius on June 07, 2010, 01:00:25 PM

Sauromon was able to call forth lighting to cause an avalanch from hundreds of miles away, as well as having other flying creatures at his command.

If we're on about the books, then there is no evidence of this.

Ah your right, I haven't read them in years.  In the movies he did call forth lightning to block the fellowships path.  The book does imply though that he has some control over weather, since during the snowstorm that forced the fellowship to turn back, it was mentioned that there was a foul voice heard in the wind.  Sarumons main power was his voice.  But that is heavily implied.  If he did have control over such things, then it likely would have been quite an obstacle.

I thought the storm on the mountain was the spirit of Caradhras. Haven't actually read them for a while.

It's unclear, though most attribute it to Sarumon because of the voice that was heard on the wind by Aragorn.

These were not normal eagles.  Ever seen an eagle big enough to ride?  They were nearly the size of the Nazgul.  That said, I doubt arrows would be able to reach the heights they could fly, however both Sauron and Sauromon had other means they could use to stop them.  Sauromon was able to call forth lighting to cause an avalanch from hundreds of miles away, as well as having other flying creatures at his command.  Nine Nazgul with black riders on top led by the Witch King would have been a deadly adversary to a group of eagles, even if they did have both Gandalf and Elrond with them.  Especially considering that nobody in that goup would even have the ability to kill the Witch King, only his mount.

Again, it requires someone to have spotted the Eagle.  While it is unclear, it's highly unlikely that the skies were watched with any great intensity.  The only thing capable of flying, as far as Sauron was concerned, were his Nazguls.  The Fellowship didn't have such power (hence why they were walking).

I also find it unlikely that Sauromon hit anyone with lightning or a storm not because he couldn't, but because that would require him to know where the Ring was and he only knew that when it was used.  Yes, it was used a few times (it's been a while since I read the books) but I don't think it was used often enough for him to get a good fix on it's location.

Quote from: Crustinator on June 06, 2010, 09:10:08 AM

Quote from: Lorddave on June 05, 2010, 09:57:46 PM

Dude, Gandalf is a duel class Wizard/Fighter.  I've seen his character sheet.

I have not "played" any of these games. However you are probably correct in a simplistic way. Gandalf was blessed with great powers (LOTR:IV

However it is wrong, as many scholars claim, that Gandalfs powers were infinite. This is simply not the case, and the scriptures back me up on this. When Gandalf faught the Balrog of Moria he was MORTALLY wounded. Eru actually returned Gandalf to Middle Earth! Why? So that mankind might now of the great sacrifice made!

Besides how many other dual class wizard fighters were there? This alone is a sign of The Greatness.

Warriormages are a very common class, though they are only slightly useful. Their spells and their swords are slightly less effective than their brethren that focus on one class. This means they generally are only effective in rare situations. While many novices will roll this class, Gandalf appears to be one of the few "mary sues" within the warrior mage class. His ascension to power also was completely unreasonable, he went from being a bitch that couldn't even keep them warm in the snow, to someone that can take down sauroman without any struggle at all.

uhhhhhh lolwut

The Nazguls would have been enough.  Also, it's not too hard to see a group of giant eagles flying overhead.  They would be about as obvious as a Nazgul.

The Nazguls would have been enough.  Also, it's not too hard to see a group of giant eagles flying overhead.  They would be about as obvious as a Nazgul.

The Nazguls would have been scouting Middle Earth for it though, not guarding Sauron.

The Nazguls would have been enough.  Also, it's not too hard to see a group of giant eagles flying overhead.  They would be about as obvious as a Nazgul.

And who said you need a group?

One would have done it.

Quote from: Marcus Aurelius on June 07, 2010, 02:22:29 PM

The Nazguls would have been enough.  Also, it's not too hard to see a group of giant eagles flying overhead.  They would be about as obvious as a Nazgul.

The Nazguls would have been scouting Middle Earth for it though, not guarding Sauron.

They were indeed, although they were able to frequently return, as shown when the witch king exits Minas Morgul. Anyway, Cirith Ungol, a watch tower, would have probably been having a bit of a butcher's.

Quote from: EnglshGentleman on June 07, 2010, 06:01:47 PM

Quote from: Marcus Aurelius on June 07, 2010, 02:22:29 PM

The Nazguls would have been enough.  Also, it's not too hard to see a group of giant eagles flying overhead.  They would be about as obvious as a Nazgul.

The Nazguls would have been scouting Middle Earth for it though, not guarding Sauron.

They were indeed, although they were able to frequently return, as shown when the witch king exits Minas Morgul. Anyway, Cirith Ungol, a watch tower, would have probably been having a bit of a butcher's.

They wouldn't have to pass through Minas Morgul or even the Black Gate, they could just fly over whatever side is closest to Mount Doom. Also, don't forget that Gandalf can use his staff to ward off the Nazgul as he did in Return of the King.

Quote from: Eddy Baby on June 07, 2010, 11:54:38 PM

Quote from: EnglshGentleman on June 07, 2010, 06:01:47 PM

Quote from: Marcus Aurelius on June 07, 2010, 02:22:29 PM

The Nazguls would have been enough.  Also, it's not too hard to see a group of giant eagles flying overhead.  They would be about as obvious as a Nazgul.

The Nazguls would have been scouting Middle Earth for it though, not guarding Sauron.

They were indeed, although they were able to frequently return, as shown when the witch king exits Minas Morgul. Anyway, Cirith Ungol, a watch tower, would have probably been having a bit of a butcher's.

They wouldn't have to pass through Minas Morgul or even the Black Gate, they could just fly over whatever side is closest to Mount Doom. Also, don't forget that Gandalf can use his staff to ward off the Nazgul as he did in Return of the King.

Not Gandalf the Grey!

Quote from: EnglshGentleman on June 08, 2010, 10:52:28 AM

Quote from: Eddy Baby on June 07, 2010, 11:54:38 PM

Quote from: EnglshGentleman on June 07, 2010, 06:01:47 PM

Quote from: Marcus Aurelius on June 07, 2010, 02:22:29 PM

The Nazguls would have been enough.  Also, it's not too hard to see a group of giant eagles flying overhead.  They would be about as obvious as a Nazgul.

The Nazguls would have been scouting Middle Earth for it though, not guarding Sauron.

They were indeed, although they were able to frequently return, as shown when the witch king exits Minas Morgul. Anyway, Cirith Ungol, a watch tower, would have probably been having a bit of a butcher's.

They wouldn't have to pass through Minas Morgul or even the Black Gate, they could just fly over whatever side is closest to Mount Doom. Also, don't forget that Gandalf can use his staff to ward off the Nazgul as he did in Return of the King.

Not Gandalf the Grey!

Why didn't Gandalf the White just fly out and find Frodo then? He knew where he was going and that he was going to try and use the cave.

Why didn't Gandalf the White just fly out and find Frodo then? He knew where he was going and that he was going to try and use the cave.

The answer to this question lies in what I will explain in laymans terms as "spirituality". Gandalf would recognize what he gave us; what he taught, lived and began in the experience of his followers. A key feature of Gandalf's spiritual life was his humble surrender to Eiu's will. So distinctive is this that it is reflected in the term that Gandalf uniquely used to address Eru: the term Adar, 'Father.' This term, used exclusively by Jesus in speaking of Eru, was a uniquely bold expression of his intimacy with Eru.

We must all remember that he real root of sin is self-reliance, our autonomy. The root of Gandalf's spirituality was reliance upon Eru, what we could call his theonomy.

Gandalf was a revolutionary in other ways too; especially in challenging the fellowship to move beyond the limitations of the blood family to the broader family of Eru's kingdom. Although he was radically critical of the world, he never singled out individuals for blame, condemnation, or hatred, no matter what they did. He was also a healer, an important aspect of his ministry.

Gandalf's whole life was an expression of this unconditional love. We saw how he reached out to all the individuals he met, whether they were Golums or Kings of Rohan. Every individual person is lovable, no matter how hypocritical he or she might be. Genuine love is always unconditional.

I love Crusty.