Lower bound on the height of the Ice Wall.

Taking the height of the Ice Wall to be finite and no other containment mechanisms in place, the atmosphere should leak out at some rate due to diffusion.  Using geologic evidence, the composition and density of the atmosphere can be traced back several hundred million years.  I am not familiar with the available evidence, but I'm fairly certain it has not changed much.  Using gas diffusion laws, it should be possible to estimate how high the Ice Wall would be to be consistent with this evidence.  Perhaps some of our members can collaborate and we can evaluate this bound.

Diffusion of the atmosphere or diffusion of the Ice wall?

Taking the height of the Ice Wall to be finite and no other containment mechanisms in place, the atmosphere should leak out at some rate due to diffusion.  Using geologic evidence, the composition and density of the atmosphere can be traced back several hundred million years.  I am not familiar with the available evidence, but I'm fairly certain it has not changed much.  Using gas diffusion laws, it should be possible to estimate how high the Ice Wall would be to be consistent with this evidence.  Perhaps some of our members can collaborate and we can evaluate this bound.

Why should the atmosphere leak out?

Quote from: Euclid on February 09, 2010, 02:35:36 AM

Taking the height of the Ice Wall to be finite and no other containment mechanisms in place, the atmosphere should leak out at some rate due to diffusion.  Using geologic evidence, the composition and density of the atmosphere can be traced back several hundred million years.  I am not familiar with the available evidence, but I'm fairly certain it has not changed much.  Using gas diffusion laws, it should be possible to estimate how high the Ice Wall would be to be consistent with this evidence.  Perhaps some of our members can collaborate and we can evaluate this bound.

Why should the atmosphere leak out?

That's generally what happens with space without a significant boundary.

In RE, as you go higher the atmolayer becomes thinner, leading into space.

On FE, the same applies, but what about at ground level? Remember, not all their models are infinite planes.

Quote from: Euclid on February 09, 2010, 02:35:36 AM

Taking the height of the Ice Wall to be finite and no other containment mechanisms in place, the atmosphere should leak out at some rate due to diffusion.  Using geologic evidence, the composition and density of the atmosphere can be traced back several hundred million years.  I am not familiar with the available evidence, but I'm fairly certain it has not changed much.  Using gas diffusion laws, it should be possible to estimate how high the Ice Wall would be to be consistent with this evidence.  Perhaps some of our members can collaborate and we can evaluate this bound.

Why should the atmosphere leak out?

It's possible that it doesn't.  If the Earth is infinite, then this isn't an issue.  Even if the earth is finite, it's possible that there is air everywhere in the Universe and we are in equilibrium with it.

Or "space" may be another medium; not air, nor vacuum.

Or "space" may be another medium; not air, nor vacuum.

What the hell else could it be then?

Magic aether, of course.

Quote from: Ski on February 11, 2010, 07:32:56 PM

Or "space" may be another medium; not air, nor vacuum.

What the hell else could it be then?

Syrup of figs. There is no proof that it could not be.

I'm mystified as to why you think the atmolayer (please use the correct terminology) would leak out given that it is bounded on all sides by walls of ice.

I'm mystified as to why you think the atmolayer atmosphere (please use the correct terminology) would leak out given that it is bounded on all sides by walls of ice.

fixed

because the atmosphere is 500 miles high (2,640,000 feet) and the highest point on earth is 29,029 ft (Mt Everest). The ice wall would be clearly visible from a long way away (being 90 times taller than Everest, just casually) . And since nobody has ever seen it, it is only safe to draw the conclusion that it doesn't exist.

I'm mystified as to why you think the atmolayer (please use the correct terminology) would leak out given that it is bounded on all sides by walls of ice.

It is not bounded from the top now is it?  And if the rest of the universe is vacuum or other negligibly dense medium, the air should leak out.  The random motions of air molecules will eventually take them on a path over the Ice Wall and out into the Universe.

Quote from: James on February 12, 2010, 06:03:12 PM

I'm mystified as to why you think the atmolayer (please use the correct terminology) would leak out given that it is bounded on all sides by walls of ice.

It is not bounded from the top now is it?  And if the rest of the universe is vacuum or other negligibly dense medium, the air should leak out.  The random motions of air molecules will eventually take them on a path over the Ice Wall and out into the Universe.

remember, FE is accelerating up. The same reason our atmosphere stays there is because of the equivalent acceleration.

Quote from: Euclid on February 12, 2010, 08:01:31 PM

Quote from: James on February 12, 2010, 06:03:12 PM

I'm mystified as to why you think the atmolayer (please use the correct terminology) would leak out given that it is bounded on all sides by walls of ice.

It is not bounded from the top now is it?  And if the rest of the universe is vacuum or other negligibly dense medium, the air should leak out.  The random motions of air molecules will eventually take them on a path over the Ice Wall and out into the Universe.

remember, FE is accelerating up. The same reason our atmosphere stays there is because of the equivalent acceleration.

That doesn't mean air molecules can't attain a velocity that will take them over the Ice Wall.

Quote from: 2fst4u on February 12, 2010, 08:03:24 PM

Quote from: Euclid on February 12, 2010, 08:01:31 PM

Quote from: James on February 12, 2010, 06:03:12 PM

I'm mystified as to why you think the atmolayer (please use the correct terminology) would leak out given that it is bounded on all sides by walls of ice.

It is not bounded from the top now is it?  And if the rest of the universe is vacuum or other negligibly dense medium, the air should leak out.  The random motions of air molecules will eventually take them on a path over the Ice Wall and out into the Universe.

remember, FE is accelerating up. The same reason our atmosphere stays there is because of the equivalent acceleration.

That doesn't mean air molecules can't attain a velocity that will take them over the Ice Wall.

What keeps RE's atmosphere in then? Shouldn't it 'leak' in all directions? I'm pretty sure leaking over the top is negligible.

Quote from: Euclid on February 12, 2010, 08:04:24 PM

Quote from: 2fst4u on February 12, 2010, 08:03:24 PM

Quote from: Euclid on February 12, 2010, 08:01:31 PM

Quote from: James on February 12, 2010, 06:03:12 PM

I'm mystified as to why you think the atmolayer (please use the correct terminology) would leak out given that it is bounded on all sides by walls of ice.

It is not bounded from the top now is it?  And if the rest of the universe is vacuum or other negligibly dense medium, the air should leak out.  The random motions of air molecules will eventually take them on a path over the Ice Wall and out into the Universe.

remember, FE is accelerating up. The same reason our atmosphere stays there is because of the equivalent acceleration.

That doesn't mean air molecules can't attain a velocity that will take them over the Ice Wall.

What keeps RE's atmosphere in then? Shouldn't it 'leak' in all directions? I'm pretty sure leaking over the top is negligible.

The RE's atmosphere does leak.  If molecules attain a greater velocity than escape velocity (11 km/s), they will escape.

Quote from: Euclid on February 12, 2010, 08:04:24 PM

Quote from: 2fst4u on February 12, 2010, 08:03:24 PM

Quote from: Euclid on February 12, 2010, 08:01:31 PM

Quote from: James on February 12, 2010, 06:03:12 PM

I'm mystified as to why you think the atmolayer (please use the correct terminology) would leak out given that it is bounded on all sides by walls of ice.

It is not bounded from the top now is it?  And if the rest of the universe is vacuum or other negligibly dense medium, the air should leak out.  The random motions of air molecules will eventually take them on a path over the Ice Wall and out into the Universe.

remember, FE is accelerating up. The same reason our atmosphere stays there is because of the equivalent acceleration.

That doesn't mean air molecules can't attain a velocity that will take them over the Ice Wall.

What keeps RE's atmosphere in then? Shouldn't it 'leak' in all directions? I'm pretty sure leaking over the top is negligible.

The point is too find a height of the Ice Wall where this isn't negligible.

The RE's atmosphere does leak.  If molecules attain a greater velocity than escape velocity (11 km/s), they will escape.

The point is too find a height of the Ice Wall where this isn't negligible.

Really? Wow. So anyway, the ice wall would therefore have to be taller that 90 times the height of Everest.

Quote from: Ski on February 11, 2010, 07:32:56 PM

Or "space" may be another medium; not air, nor vacuum.

What the hell else could it be then?

How in the world would I know? And why would I pretend to?   

I have frequently considered that "space" may be something other than a vacuum. It might explain why celestial light is refracted in the manner it is, for example. Many ancient cosmologies include a celestial dome of some sort or another.

Quote from: Euclid on February 12, 2010, 08:17:42 PM

The RE's atmosphere does leak.  If molecules attain a greater velocity than escape velocity (11 km/s), they will escape.

The point is too find a height of the Ice Wall where this isn't negligible.

Really? Wow. So anyway, the ice wall would therefore have to be taller that 90 times the height of Everest.

That height seems arbitrary to me.  Why?

Quote from: 2fst4u on February 12, 2010, 08:29:03 PM

Quote from: Euclid on February 12, 2010, 08:17:42 PM

The RE's atmosphere does leak.  If molecules attain a greater velocity than escape velocity (11 km/s), they will escape.

The point is too find a height of the Ice Wall where this isn't negligible.

Really? Wow. So anyway, the ice wall would therefore have to be taller that 90 times the height of Everest.

That height seems arbitrary to me.  Why?

My memory failed me. Atmosphere is 100 kms high, not 500 miles (silly me) therefore it will be 11 times higher than Everest

Quote from: Euclid on February 12, 2010, 10:28:50 PM

Quote from: 2fst4u on February 12, 2010, 08:29:03 PM

Quote from: Euclid on February 12, 2010, 08:17:42 PM

The RE's atmosphere does leak.  If molecules attain a greater velocity than escape velocity (11 km/s), they will escape.

The point is too find a height of the Ice Wall where this isn't negligible.

Really? Wow. So anyway, the ice wall would therefore have to be taller that 90 times the height of Everest.

That height seems arbitrary to me.  Why?

My memory failed me. Atmosphere is 100 kms high, not 500 miles (silly me) therefore it will be 11 times higher than Everest

The atmosphere does not have a well-defined upper boundary.

Quote from: 2fst4u on February 12, 2010, 10:38:58 PM

Quote from: Euclid on February 12, 2010, 10:28:50 PM

Quote from: 2fst4u on February 12, 2010, 08:29:03 PM

Quote from: Euclid on February 12, 2010, 08:17:42 PM

The RE's atmosphere does leak.  If molecules attain a greater velocity than escape velocity (11 km/s), they will escape.

The point is too find a height of the Ice Wall where this isn't negligible.

Really? Wow. So anyway, the ice wall would therefore have to be taller that 90 times the height of Everest.

That height seems arbitrary to me.  Why?

My memory failed me. Atmosphere is 100 kms high, not 500 miles (silly me) therefore it will be 11 times higher than Everest

The atmosphere does not have a well-defined upper boundary.

Yes but this is a conventional boundary between air and space. The ice wall would have to be at least this tall to keep the atmosphere in. I understand air just gets thinner and thinner to the point of 0 density

Quote from: Euclid on February 12, 2010, 10:41:25 PM

Quote from: 2fst4u on February 12, 2010, 10:38:58 PM

Quote from: Euclid on February 12, 2010, 10:28:50 PM

Quote from: 2fst4u on February 12, 2010, 08:29:03 PM

Quote from: Euclid on February 12, 2010, 08:17:42 PM

The RE's atmosphere does leak.  If molecules attain a greater velocity than escape velocity (11 km/s), they will escape.

The point is too find a height of the Ice Wall where this isn't negligible.

Really? Wow. So anyway, the ice wall would therefore have to be taller that 90 times the height of Everest.

That height seems arbitrary to me.  Why?

My memory failed me. Atmosphere is 100 kms high, not 500 miles (silly me) therefore it will be 11 times higher than Everest

The atmosphere does not have a well-defined upper boundary.

Yes but this is a conventional boundary between air and space. The ice wall would have to be at least this tall to keep the atmosphere in. I understand air just gets thinner and thinner to the point of 0 density

It may be that a 100km ice wall would still be too short and that air would diffuse out in less than the lifetime of the Earth.

An ~80,000 foot high external Ice Wall beyond the 150 foot Ice Wall at the coast isn't necessary to contain the atmosphere.

If the earth is big enough, it can simply end without the atmosphere leaking into space.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Atmolayer+Lip+Hypothesis

An ~80,000 foot high external Ice Wall beyond the 150 foot Ice Wall at the coast isn't necessary to contain the atmosphere.

If the earth is big enough, it can simply end without the atmosphere leaking into space.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Atmolayer+Lip+Hypothesis

"temperatures will drop to a point where barometric pressure nears the zero mark"

zero what? Pressure needs a unit.

An ~80,000 foot high external Ice Wall beyond the 150 foot Ice Wall at the coast isn't necessary to contain the atmosphere.

If the earth is big enough, it can simply end without the atmosphere leaking into space.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Atmolayer+Lip+Hypothesis

"The atmosphere may very well exist as a lip upon the surface of the earth, held in by vast gradients of declining pressure."

No. No. No.   Gas has a property called diffusion.  Air modules exhibit a random motion which will always push them into regions of lower density.  IF they are not constained, they will find a way to escape.

The model suggested is complete codswallop.

In answer to the age-old "why isn't the Ice Wall visible from [Sydney/Cairo/Blackpool/Helsinki/whatever]?" question:

Nobody's claiming that the Ice Wall is literally on the coast of Antarctica here. Antarctica is massive. The Ice Wall is almost certainly deep inland.

In answer to the age-old "why isn't the Ice Wall visible from [Sydney/Cairo/Blackpool/Helsinki/whatever]?" question:

Nobody's claiming that the Ice Wall is literally on the coast of Antarctica here. Antarctica is massive. The Ice Wall is almost certainly deep inland.

This is a conclusion drawn by nobody being able to see it? There's another conclusion that can be drawn from that, too.

"temperatures will drop to a point where barometric pressure nears the zero mark"

zero what? Pressure needs a unit.

Zero Psi/Pa. It doesn't matter which units are used.

"The atmosphere may very well exist as a lip upon the surface of the earth, held in by vast gradients of declining pressure."

No. No. No.   Gas has a property called diffusion.  Air modules exhibit a random motion which will always push them into regions of lower density.  IF they are not constained, they will find a way to escape.

The model suggested is complete codswallop.

The atoms would need to escape over tens of thousands of miles of icy tundra. As they move that distance the ambient temperatures get colder and colder, and thus pressure gets lower and lower, as molecular activity slows to a stop. Once sufficiently cold pressure will reach the zero point and the earth can end without the atmosphere leaking into space.