'Bendy Light' Discussion

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EnglshGentleman

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'Bendy Light' Discussion
« on: January 16, 2010, 10:18:20 PM »
Could it also be added that the Bendy Light Theory has been debunked? I recall it died in the Night/Day topic since a person at altitude would end up thinking its day while a person below them would think its night.

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skeptical scientist

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Re: 'Bendy Light' Discussion
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2010, 12:09:13 AM »
Could it also be added that the Bendy Light Theory has been debunked? I recall it died in the Night/Day topic since a person at altitude would end up thinking its day while a person below them would think its night.
What do you mean "a person at altitude would end up thinking its day"? The sun does set sooner for those lower down than those higher up. You can easily see this by watching a mountain at sunset - the summit will still be in sunlight when its after sunset at the base. I have personally witnessed this, most memorably watching El Capitan in Yosemite. Here's a picture:


If this phenomenon is predicted by the FE model, then that's a strength, not a weakness.
-David
E pur si muove!

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EnglshGentleman

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Re: 'Bendy Light' Discussion
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2010, 12:19:45 AM »
Could it also be added that the Bendy Light Theory has been debunked? I recall it died in the Night/Day topic since a person at altitude would end up thinking its day while a person below them would think its night.
What do you mean "a person at altitude would end up thinking its day"? The sun does set sooner for those lower down than those higher up. You can easily see this by watching a mountain at sunset - the summit will still be in sunlight when its after sunset at the base. I have personally witnessed this, most memorably watching El Capitan in Yosemite. Here's a picture:


If this phenomenon is predicted by the FE model, then that's a strength, not a weakness.

You missed the part were you would see light at a certain altitude (while it is dark below), but if you went higher, you would then lose the light. Do you want me to show you the graph that depicts this?

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skeptical scientist

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Re: 'Bendy Light' Discussion
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2010, 04:06:09 AM »
You missed the part were you would see light at a certain altitude (while it is dark below), but if you went higher, you would then lose the light. Do you want me to show you the graph that depicts this?
Could you link the thread in question? I tried searching for it, but there are about a million threads titled night/day.
-David
E pur si muove!

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Thermal Detonator

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Re: 'Bendy Light' Discussion
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2010, 04:30:14 AM »
I think you're misunderstanding how that diagram debunks bendy light. It works by showing how at altitude you'd see the sun appearing to come from a position on the ground, so a setting sun seen from thousands of feet in the air would be partially superimposed over ground terrain.
Gayer doesn't live in an atmosphere of vaporised mustard like you appear to, based on your latest photo.

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Parsifal

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Re: 'Bendy Light' Discussion
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2010, 04:43:33 AM »
I think you're misunderstanding how that diagram debunks bendy light. It works by showing how at altitude you'd see the sun appearing to come from a position on the ground, so a setting sun seen from thousands of feet in the air would be partially superimposed over ground terrain.

It also fails to work by showing a misunderstanding of the idea behind bendy light.
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Re: 'Bendy Light' Discussion
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2010, 06:21:52 AM »
Parsifal just make your point. Don't just say you are wrong and wait for us to ask how so?

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Crustinator

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Re: 'Bendy Light' Discussion
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2010, 06:27:05 AM »
SBR performed experiments...

Nope. He performed flawed experiments when could never be repeated. When he wasn't being chased out of town he also sold snake oil and other quakc fixes.

A few gullible people gave him some attention. In that respect not much has changed.

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Parsifal

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Re: 'Bendy Light' Discussion
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2010, 06:38:06 AM »
Parsifal just make your point. Don't just say you are wrong and wait for us to ask how so?

I have made my point when the diagram was first posted. Euclid supported me in it.
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Thermal Detonator

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Re: 'Bendy Light' Discussion
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2010, 07:20:46 AM »
Parsifal just make your point. Don't just say you are wrong and wait for us to ask how so?

I have made my point when the diagram was first posted. Euclid supported me in it.

Your point was to nitpick about the scale of the diagram. Euclid didn't even understand the diagram.
Anyway, I've satisfied most people on the forum who have their brains switched on that bendy light is a fallacy. We all know you don't really believe it anyway as you have admitted the earth is not flat. If you can supply some experimental evidence of light being bendy without reference to the surface of the earth then go ahead. You won't be able to do it of course, whereas we can supply a shedload of evidence that light travels in straight lines without bending, and we can do it without using the earth's surface as a reference measure.
As I have often said, my mission is not to try to convert those who won't listen or switch their brains on. It's to make sure anyone who has not decided between a flat or round earth realise how pathetically weak the FE arguments are.
Gayer doesn't live in an atmosphere of vaporised mustard like you appear to, based on your latest photo.

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Parsifal

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Re: 'Bendy Light' Discussion
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2010, 07:33:58 AM »
Your point was to nitpick about the scale of the diagram. Euclid didn't even understand the diagram.

No, after that point I quite reasonably pointed out that a ray from the Sun appearing to come from the ground would need to follow the same path as a ray from the ground itself, meaning that the sunlight would be bending through the ground. So either you are suggesting that the Earth is transparent, or this phenomenon would not be observed.

We all know you don't really believe it anyway as you have admitted the earth is not flat.

No, what I said is that I don't believe the Earth to be flat.

If you can supply some experimental evidence of light being bendy without reference to the surface of the earth then go ahead. You won't be able to do it of course, whereas we can supply a shedload of evidence that light travels in straight lines without bending, and we can do it without using the earth's surface as a reference measure.

Show me one experiment which shows that light travels in straight lines.
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Lord Wilmore

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Re: 'Bendy Light' Discussion
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2010, 07:46:41 AM »
Making this into a topic by itself, and moving to Q&A.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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Crustinator

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Re: 'Bendy Light' Discussion
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2010, 07:49:58 AM »
No, what I said is that I don't believe the Earth to be flat.

You should clarify the difference. Otherwise you look like a raving troll.

Show me one experiment which shows that light travels in straight lines.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Describe_an_experiment_that_show%27s_how_light_travels_in_a_straight_line

This is Key Stage 3 stuff. Ie for 11 to 14 year olds Given that you're supposed to be in the second year of a physics degree it makes me worry a little.

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Parsifal

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Re: 'Bendy Light' Discussion
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2010, 07:53:16 AM »
You should clarify the difference. Otherwise you look like a raving troll.

The difference should be quite obvious to anybody with a satisfactory grasp of the English language.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Describe_an_experiment_that_show%27s_how_light_travels_in_a_straight_line

What is the uncertainty in the measured curvature in that experiment?
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Crustinator

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Re: 'Bendy Light' Discussion
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2010, 07:59:29 AM »
The difference should be quite obvious to anybody with a satisfactory grasp of the English language.

That's not clarification. Sorry but you're looking more and more like a raving troll.

What is the uncertainty in the measured curvature in that experiment?

What measured curvature?

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Parsifal

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Re: 'Bendy Light' Discussion
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2010, 08:06:08 AM »
That's not clarification. Sorry but you're looking more and more like a raving troll.

I'm not here to teach you basic English skills. Please come back when you've graduated kindergarten.

What measured curvature?

The one you've measured to be zero.
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Crustinator

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Re: 'Bendy Light' Discussion
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2010, 08:14:14 AM »
I'm not here to teach you basic English skills. Please come back when you've graduated kindergarten.

That's not clarification. Sorry but you're looking more and more like a raving troll.

Actually 99.9% probability raving troll now. Quelle surprise.

If you're going to correct people, give a reason for the correction. It make you look less interwebretardzinga.

What measured curvature?

The one you've measured to be zero.

No sorry I have no idea what you're talking about. I'd ask you to clarify but ... well see above...

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Parsifal

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Re: 'Bendy Light' Discussion
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2010, 08:16:38 AM »
If you're going to correct people, give a reason for the correction. It make you look less interwebretardzinga.

Irony.

No sorry I have no idea what you're talking about. I'd ask you to clarify but ... well see above...

To say that light travels in a straight line, you have to measure its curvature to be zero. What is the uncertainty in this measurement?
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

Re: 'Bendy Light' Discussion
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2010, 08:18:23 AM »
Parsifal, I thought the point of this was to debate FE. Not to immediately say, RE is wrong Fe is right.

What's the point then? Just want to circle-jerk your acceptance of the idea? I don't see why you are so hostile to arguing yet continually post and start arguments.


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Parsifal

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Re: 'Bendy Light' Discussion
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2010, 08:21:14 AM »
Parsifal, I thought the point of this was to debate FE. Not to immediately say, RE is wrong Fe is right.

Please point out where I've said such a thing.

What's the point then? Just want to circle-jerk your acceptance of the idea? I don't see why you are so hostile to arguing yet continually post and start arguments.

I'm not hostile to arguing. I asked Crustinator a question and I am waiting for an answer.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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Crustinator

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Re: 'Bendy Light' Discussion
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2010, 08:25:03 AM »
To say that light travels in a straight line, you have to measure its curvature to be zero. What is the uncertainty in this measurement?

No. To measure it's curvature as zero would be to presume that all you need to do is dismiss a curve. Light could be behaving in all kinds of peculiar ways. One of which would be a simple curve. Luckily the experiment shows that no such peculiar behaviour exists (at least here on earth)

The experiment allows you to set the uncertainty to the level you desire.

So, the answer to your question was found in a kids Key Stage 3 science experiment. I wonder how that one escaped you.

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Parsifal

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Re: 'Bendy Light' Discussion
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2010, 08:26:34 AM »
No. To measure it's curvature as zero would be to presume that all you need to do is dismiss a curve. Light could be behaving in all kinds of peculiar ways. One of which would be a simple curve. Luckily the experiment shows that no such peculiar behaviour exists (at least here on earth)

The experiment allows you to set the uncertainty to the level you desire.

You have no comprehension of what you are talking about and are trying to scare me away with technobabble. It seems we have reached an end to our debate, sadly.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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Crustinator

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Re: 'Bendy Light' Discussion
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2010, 08:34:14 AM »
You have no comprehension of what you are talking about and are trying to scare me away with technobabble.

Not really. You not understanding what I posted does not mean I don't understand you. I can try and help you if you like, but you'll have to stop bawwwing first.

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Parsifal

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Re: 'Bendy Light' Discussion
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2010, 08:40:25 AM »
Not really. You not understanding what I posted does not mean I don't understand you. I can try and help you if you like, but you'll have to stop bawwwing first.

I do understand what you posted. That is how I know you are avoiding the issue with technobabble.
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Crustinator

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Re: 'Bendy Light' Discussion
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2010, 08:49:54 AM »
I do understand what you posted. That is how I know you are avoiding the issue with technobabble.

Nope. I gave you a clear enough answer. It wasn't even in techno babble.

Stall much?

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Parsifal

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Re: 'Bendy Light' Discussion
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2010, 08:56:19 AM »
Nope. I gave you a clear enough answer. It wasn't even in techno babble.

Not really. You derailed the thread by mentioning that light might be behaving in some "peculiar ways" that you proceeded not to expand upon, and then further avoided my question by saying that the experiment allows you to set an arbitrary uncertainty.

Let me ask you again but with greater precision, what is the uncertainty in that experiment as it has been performed?
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Crustinator

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Re: 'Bendy Light' Discussion
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2010, 09:00:50 AM »
You derailed the thread by mentioning that light might be behaving in some "peculiar ways" that you proceeded not to expand upon, and then further avoided my question by saying that the experiment allows you to set an arbitrary uncertainty.

Nope I corrected your answer that the experiment not only rules out simple curvatures but all other possible deformities of light. You didn't seem to understand this and got all obsessed with some previously unmentioned curve.

Let me ask you again but with greater precision, what is the uncertainty in that experiment as it has been performed?

The experiment allows you to set the uncertainty to the level you desire.

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Parsifal

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Re: 'Bendy Light' Discussion
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2010, 09:04:35 AM »
Nope I corrected your answer that the experiment not only rules out simple curvatures but all other possible deformities of light. You didn't seem to understand this and got all obsessed with some previously unmentioned curve.

That's possibly because we're not talking about other possible deformities. Read the thread title if you're confused.

Let me ask you again but with greater precision, what is the uncertainty in that experiment as it has been performed?

The experiment allows you to set the uncertainty to the level you desire.

In theory, yes. In practice, there are certain limitations created by the size of the laboratory, the size of the holes we can puncture, and the distance over which we can measure a straight line. What is the uncertainty in this experiment as it has been performed, accounting for these limitations?
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Crustinator

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Re: 'Bendy Light' Discussion
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2010, 09:09:38 AM »
That's possibly because we're not talking about other possible deformities. Read the thread title if you're confused.

I'm aware of that. But you introduced "curvature" to the experiment where non existed. Your understanding was misplaced. It was corrected.

In theory, yes. In practice, there are certain limitations created by the size of the laboratory, the size of the holes we can puncture, and the distance over which we can measure a straight line. What is the uncertainty in this experiment as it has been performed, accounting for these limitations?

??? FFS You just don't get it do you?

Given that A2=B2 + C2 what is A?

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Parsifal

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Re: 'Bendy Light' Discussion
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2010, 09:12:37 AM »
I'm aware of that. But you introduced "curvature" to the experiment where non existed. Your understanding was misplaced. It was corrected.

If light travels in a straight line, it has zero curvature. Do you disagree?

??? FFS You just don't get it do you?

I think, given time, you will come to realise that I do.

Given that A2=B2 + C2 what is A?

I don't know the value of B or C, so I cannot answer that.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.