A new Idea: flat earth in a sphere

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Ericleb01

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Re: A new Idea: flat earth in a sphere
« Reply #60 on: August 29, 2010, 06:16:36 PM »
What I belive is irrelevant.

I find that the word "irrelevant" is oft-used in the FET vocabulary. Are your statements so ambiguous to the point where people are going off-topic?

No.  I think people tend to go off-topic because they don't take the topic seriously.

Haha, well that's a given. What else do you expect when trying to disprove centuries-old knowledge, replacing it with this pseudo-science?
Quote from: Carl Sagan
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: A new Idea: flat earth in a sphere
« Reply #61 on: August 29, 2010, 06:49:42 PM »
What I belive is irrelevant.

I find that the word "irrelevant" is oft-used in the FET vocabulary. Are your statements so ambiguous to the point where people are going off-topic?

No.  I think people tend to go off-topic because they don't take the topic seriously.

Haha, well that's a given. What else do you expect when trying to disprove centuries-old knowledge, replacing it with this pseudo-science?

See?  Case in point.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Ericleb01

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Re: A new Idea: flat earth in a sphere
« Reply #62 on: August 29, 2010, 06:53:49 PM »
What I belive is irrelevant.

I find that the word "irrelevant" is oft-used in the FET vocabulary. Are your statements so ambiguous to the point where people are going off-topic?

No.  I think people tend to go off-topic because they don't take the topic seriously.

Haha, well that's a given. What else do you expect when trying to disprove centuries-old knowledge, replacing it with this pseudo-science?

See?  Case in point.

Subject hasn't gone off-topic in relation to your comment, therefore I fail to see what you're pointing out. But yes, we don't take the topic seriously, because as I said, it's unsubstantiated.
Quote from: Carl Sagan
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: A new Idea: flat earth in a sphere
« Reply #63 on: August 29, 2010, 06:55:21 PM »
What I belive is irrelevant.

I find that the word "irrelevant" is oft-used in the FET vocabulary. Are your statements so ambiguous to the point where people are going off-topic?

No.  I think people tend to go off-topic because they don't take the topic seriously.

Haha, well that's a given. What else do you expect when trying to disprove centuries-old knowledge, replacing it with this pseudo-science?

See?  Case in point.

Subject hasn't gone off-topic in relation to your comment, therefore I fail to see what you're pointing out. But yes, we don't take the topic seriously, because as I said, it's unsubstantiated.

It's substantiated enough to be worthy of discussion.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Ericleb01

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Re: A new Idea: flat earth in a sphere
« Reply #64 on: August 29, 2010, 06:58:01 PM »
What I belive is irrelevant.

I find that the word "irrelevant" is oft-used in the FET vocabulary. Are your statements so ambiguous to the point where people are going off-topic?

No.  I think people tend to go off-topic because they don't take the topic seriously.

Haha, well that's a given. What else do you expect when trying to disprove centuries-old knowledge, replacing it with this pseudo-science?

See?  Case in point.

Subject hasn't gone off-topic in relation to your comment, therefore I fail to see what you're pointing out. But yes, we don't take the topic seriously, because as I said, it's unsubstantiated.

It's substantiated enough to be worthy of discussion.

Anything is worthy of being discussed. The FET is not worthy of being taken seriously because it's unsubstantiated.
Quote from: Carl Sagan
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

*

Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: A new Idea: flat earth in a sphere
« Reply #65 on: August 29, 2010, 07:02:30 PM »
What I belive is irrelevant.

I find that the word "irrelevant" is oft-used in the FET vocabulary. Are your statements so ambiguous to the point where people are going off-topic?

No.  I think people tend to go off-topic because they don't take the topic seriously.

Haha, well that's a given. What else do you expect when trying to disprove centuries-old knowledge, replacing it with this pseudo-science?

See?  Case in point.

Subject hasn't gone off-topic in relation to your comment, therefore I fail to see what you're pointing out. But yes, we don't take the topic seriously, because as I said, it's unsubstantiated.

It's substantiated enough to be worthy of discussion.

Anything is worthy of being discussed. The FET is not worthy of being taken seriously because it's unsubstantiated.

If it's worthy of being discussed, it's worthy of being taken seriously.  It is not unsubstantiated.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Ericleb01

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Re: A new Idea: flat earth in a sphere
« Reply #66 on: August 29, 2010, 07:05:29 PM »
What I belive is irrelevant.

I find that the word "irrelevant" is oft-used in the FET vocabulary. Are your statements so ambiguous to the point where people are going off-topic?

No.  I think people tend to go off-topic because they don't take the topic seriously.

Haha, well that's a given. What else do you expect when trying to disprove centuries-old knowledge, replacing it with this pseudo-science?

See?  Case in point.

Subject hasn't gone off-topic in relation to your comment, therefore I fail to see what you're pointing out. But yes, we don't take the topic seriously, because as I said, it's unsubstantiated.

It's substantiated enough to be worthy of discussion.

Anything is worthy of being discussed. The FET is not worthy of being taken seriously because it's unsubstantiated.

If it's worthy of being discussed, it's worthy of being taken seriously.  It is not unsubstantiated.

I can discuss the likelihood of a of an invisible pink unicorn being the creator of the universe, but that doesn't make it substantiated.

And yes, it is unsubstantiated until you provide concrete evidence to render it substantiated. Otherwise it remains a claim. An unsubstantiated claim.
Quote from: Carl Sagan
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: A new Idea: flat earth in a sphere
« Reply #67 on: August 29, 2010, 07:22:45 PM »
And yes, it is unsubstantiated until you provide concrete evidence to render it substantiated. Otherwise it remains a claim. An unsubstantiated claim.

Earth Not a Globe by Samuel Rowbotham aka Parallax is an excellent starting point.  Google it, it's available for free online.

Now, I'd like to see some concrete evidence of a round Earth.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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ClockTower

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Re: A new Idea: flat earth in a sphere
« Reply #68 on: August 29, 2010, 07:25:53 PM »
And yes, it is unsubstantiated until you provide concrete evidence to render it substantiated. Otherwise it remains a claim. An unsubstantiated claim.

Earth Not a Globe by Samuel Rowbotham aka Parallax is an excellent starting point.  Google it, it's available for free online.

Now, I'd like to see some concrete evidence of a round Earth.
lurk moar. There are plenty of posts of concrete evidence of a round Earth. Try the search feature.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: A new Idea: flat earth in a sphere
« Reply #69 on: August 29, 2010, 07:34:11 PM »
And yes, it is unsubstantiated until you provide concrete evidence to render it substantiated. Otherwise it remains a claim. An unsubstantiated claim.

Earth Not a Globe by Samuel Rowbotham aka Parallax is an excellent starting point.  Google it, it's available for free online.

Now, I'd like to see some concrete evidence of a round Earth.
lurk moar. There are plenty of posts of concrete evidence of a round Earth. Try the search feature.

I've never seen anything that proves that the Earth is round.  Until such evidence is presented, it's only right that the default position is considered.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Ericleb01

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Re: A new Idea: flat earth in a sphere
« Reply #70 on: August 29, 2010, 07:35:14 PM »
And yes, it is unsubstantiated until you provide concrete evidence to render it substantiated. Otherwise it remains a claim. An unsubstantiated claim.

Earth Not a Globe by Samuel Rowbotham aka Parallax is an excellent starting point.  Google it, it's available for free online.

Now, I'd like to see some concrete evidence of a round Earth.

Whoa, you're the one making a positive claim; don't turn the table and make a negative one until you properly prove your positive.

As for your book, I'm sceptical when seeing the following review:

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"Some books are truly great because they have been carefully researched, verified and contain deep truths that can change your understanding of this world forever. This is not one of these books; in fact, it is as far as it gets from one of these books. Basically, this is a work of one man who started out with an assumption -- namely, that the Earth is flat -- and then picked some things that seem to support this assumption, completely ignoring the vast amount of evidence against it.

So what makes this book great? It is charming in the same way an Ed Wood movie is -- so unbelievably sloppy and amateurish that it is quite hilarious. The basic assumption is just so laughable and unbelievable that you can fully appreciate the depth -- or lack thereof -- of the evidence and reasoning. Basically, the main body of evidence is some experiments that the author has conducted. He looked at objects from great distance, they did not disappear, therefore the Earth must be flat. As simple as that! As an additional bonus, he threw in some carefully selected data about lighthouses that could be seen from a longer distance than would be possible if the Earth was round (ignoring the majority of data that does not fit in his theory).

And just about the best thing about the book is the fact that it is still relevant today. We still have people who use the very same methods -- carefully selected data, sloppy research and loud statements -- to prove all sorts of things. We have people who believe that Earth was created 6000 years ago, we have people who say that global warming is not really happening, we have people who claim that smoking is not really that bad for you -- using the very same kind of reasoning, that is, starting with an assumption and then picking evidence to support it. This book is so blatantly wrong that it serves as a nice and safe training tool -- when you understand what is wrong with this book, it is easier to see what is wrong with the other claims. And that is the greatest strength and value of this book."
Quote from: Carl Sagan
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

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Ericleb01

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Re: A new Idea: flat earth in a sphere
« Reply #71 on: August 29, 2010, 07:39:22 PM »
And yes, it is unsubstantiated until you provide concrete evidence to render it substantiated. Otherwise it remains a claim. An unsubstantiated claim.

Earth Not a Globe by Samuel Rowbotham aka Parallax is an excellent starting point.  Google it, it's available for free online.

Now, I'd like to see some concrete evidence of a round Earth.
lurk moar. There are plenty of posts of concrete evidence of a round Earth. Try the search feature.

I've never seen anything that proves that the Earth is round.  Until such evidence is presented, it's only right that the default position is considered.

Argh, the default position doesn't change according to one's opinion. In modern science, the default position is that the Earth is round. If you want to change the default position, you have to provide evidence.
Quote from: Carl Sagan
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

*

ClockTower

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Re: A new Idea: flat earth in a sphere
« Reply #72 on: August 29, 2010, 07:45:13 PM »
And yes, it is unsubstantiated until you provide concrete evidence to render it substantiated. Otherwise it remains a claim. An unsubstantiated claim.

Earth Not a Globe by Samuel Rowbotham aka Parallax is an excellent starting point.  Google it, it's available for free online.

Now, I'd like to see some concrete evidence of a round Earth.
lurk moar. There are plenty of posts of concrete evidence of a round Earth. Try the search feature.

I've never seen anything that proves that the Earth is round.  Until such evidence is presented, it's only right that the default position is considered.

Argh, the default position doesn't change according to one's opinion. In modern science, the default position is that the Earth is round. If you want to change the default position, you have to provide evidence.
Just to clarify, Roundy believes that the Earth is round.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Ericleb01

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Re: A new Idea: flat earth in a sphere
« Reply #73 on: August 29, 2010, 07:47:08 PM »
And yes, it is unsubstantiated until you provide concrete evidence to render it substantiated. Otherwise it remains a claim. An unsubstantiated claim.

Earth Not a Globe by Samuel Rowbotham aka Parallax is an excellent starting point.  Google it, it's available for free online.

Now, I'd like to see some concrete evidence of a round Earth.
lurk moar. There are plenty of posts of concrete evidence of a round Earth. Try the search feature.

I've never seen anything that proves that the Earth is round.  Until such evidence is presented, it's only right that the default position is considered.

Argh, the default position doesn't change according to one's opinion. In modern science, the default position is that the Earth is round. If you want to change the default position, you have to provide evidence.
Just to clarify, Roundy believes that the Earth is round.

???

Pardon?
Quote from: Carl Sagan
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: A new Idea: flat earth in a sphere
« Reply #74 on: August 29, 2010, 07:52:43 PM »
Whoa, you're the one making a positive claim; don't turn the table and make a negative one until you properly prove your positive.

No I'm not.  You're the one claiming the world is round.  Show the proof that my senses are deceiving me.

Quote
So what makes this book great?

I never said it was great.  But it is a book with purported evidence that the Earth is flat.  

Argh, the default position doesn't change according to one's opinion. In modern science, the default position is that the Earth is round. If you want to change the default position, you have to provide evidence.

The default position is what our own regular experience tells us.  Just because you've been indoctrinated to be sure that the Earth is round despite the observable evidence to the contrary doesn't necessarily mean it is.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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markjo

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Re: A new Idea: flat earth in a sphere
« Reply #75 on: August 29, 2010, 07:54:15 PM »
Just to clarify, Roundy believes that the Earth is round.

???

Pardon?

Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil%27s_advocate
In common parlance, a devil's advocate is someone who, given a certain argument, takes a position he or she does not necessarily agree with, just for the sake of argument. In taking such position, the individual taking on the devil's advocate role seeks to engage others in an argumentative discussion process.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Ericleb01

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Re: A new Idea: flat earth in a sphere
« Reply #76 on: August 29, 2010, 08:02:41 PM »
Just to clarify, Roundy believes that the Earth is round.

???

Pardon?

Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil%27s_advocate
In common parlance, a devil's advocate is someone who, given a certain argument, takes a position he or she does not necessarily agree with, just for the sake of argument. In taking such position, the individual taking on the devil's advocate role seeks to engage others in an argumentative discussion process.

I must be incompetent, because I don't see how devil's advocate applies.
Quote from: Carl Sagan
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

*

markjo

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Re: A new Idea: flat earth in a sphere
« Reply #77 on: August 29, 2010, 08:06:08 PM »
Whoa, you're the one making a positive claim; don't turn the table and make a negative one until you properly prove your positive.

No I'm not.  You're the one claiming the world is round.  Show the proof that my senses are deceiving me.

Why do you think that your senses are deceiving you?  What should your senses tell you that the surface of a 7900 mile diameter sphere looks like?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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markjo

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Re: A new Idea: flat earth in a sphere
« Reply #78 on: August 29, 2010, 08:08:16 PM »
Just to clarify, Roundy believes that the Earth is round.

???

Pardon?

Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil%27s_advocate
In common parlance, a devil's advocate is someone who, given a certain argument, takes a position he or she does not necessarily agree with, just for the sake of argument. In taking such position, the individual taking on the devil's advocate role seeks to engage others in an argumentative discussion process.

I must be incompetent, because I don't see how devil's advocate applies.

Roundy (at least appears to) argue for a position that he does not necessarily believe.  What's so hard about that to understand?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: A new Idea: flat earth in a sphere
« Reply #79 on: August 29, 2010, 08:10:22 PM »
Whoa, you're the one making a positive claim; don't turn the table and make a negative one until you properly prove your positive.

No I'm not.  You're the one claiming the world is round.  Show the proof that my senses are deceiving me.

Why do you think that your senses are deceiving you?  What should your senses tell you that the surface of a 7900 mile diameter sphere looks like?

Unfortunately, if the Earth is flat, as it appears to be, such speculation is pure science-fiction.  The Earth looks flat.  Prove it's not.

By the way, I love the little side argument.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Ericleb01

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Re: A new Idea: flat earth in a sphere
« Reply #80 on: August 29, 2010, 08:14:04 PM »
Whoa, you're the one making a positive claim; don't turn the table and make a negative one until you properly prove your positive.
No I'm not.  You're the one claiming the world is round.  Show the proof that my senses are deceiving me.

The topic (between you and I) has always been that you made a positive claim that there is evidence to support the fact that the Earth is flat. You've given me a controversial book accused of using primitive techniques to reach a conclusion. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, said the wise Carl Sagan.  

Quote
Quote
So what makes this book great?
I never said it was great.  But it is a book with purported evidence that the Earth is flat.  

That wasn't the point of the review. The point of the review was that the methods used to reach the conclusions laid out in the book are flawed.

Quote
Argh, the default position doesn't change according to one's opinion. In modern science, the default position is that the Earth is round. If you want to change the default position, you have to provide evidence.
The default position is what our own regular experience tells us.  Just because you've been indoctrinated to be sure that the Earth is round despite the observable evidence to the contrary doesn't necessarily mean it is.

Indoctrination is not synonymous with reading the factual evidence and possible stances, to confirm my stance on the subject. You want examples of indoctrination? Religious adherents are chock full of them.

Sure, the default position can change when placed in reference to your own conclusions on a subject, but not in reality.

Edit: Fixed quote tags.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2010, 08:16:47 PM by Ericleb01 »
Quote from: Carl Sagan
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

*

ClockTower

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Re: A new Idea: flat earth in a sphere
« Reply #81 on: August 29, 2010, 08:14:56 PM »
Whoa, you're the one making a positive claim; don't turn the table and make a negative one until you properly prove your positive.

No I'm not.  You're the one claiming the world is round.  Show the proof that my senses are deceiving me.

Why do you think that your senses are deceiving you?  What should your senses tell you that the surface of a 7900 mile diameter sphere looks like?

Unfortunately, if the Earth is flat, as it appears to be, such speculation is pure science-fiction.  The Earth looks flat.  Prove it's not.

By the way, I love the little side argument.
Okay, since you're too lazy to search or lurk, please reference: http://www.arvindguptatoys.com/arvindgupta/earthpix.pdf
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Ericleb01

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Re: A new Idea: flat earth in a sphere
« Reply #82 on: August 29, 2010, 08:18:17 PM »
Just to clarify, Roundy believes that the Earth is round.

???

Pardon?

Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil%27s_advocate
In common parlance, a devil's advocate is someone who, given a certain argument, takes a position he or she does not necessarily agree with, just for the sake of argument. In taking such position, the individual taking on the devil's advocate role seeks to engage others in an argumentative discussion process.

I must be incompetent, because I don't see how devil's advocate applies.

Roundy (at least appears to) argue for a position that he does not necessarily believe.  What's so hard about that to understand?

I'm confused as to where this applies. I don't see where he is playing devil's advocate.
Quote from: Carl Sagan
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

*

ClockTower

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Re: A new Idea: flat earth in a sphere
« Reply #83 on: August 29, 2010, 08:43:13 PM »
I'm confused as to where this applies. I don't see where he is playing devil's advocate.
Roundy regularly makes statements that he does not believe. He argues that he's not being dishonest, just a devil's advocate. However, I find your concerns quite adequate to reject the DA role for him.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: A new Idea: flat earth in a sphere
« Reply #84 on: August 29, 2010, 08:45:04 PM »
The topic (between you and I) has always been that you made a positive claim that there is evidence to support the fact that the Earth is flat. You've given me a controversial book accused of using primitive techniques to reach a conclusion. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, said the wise Carl Sagan.  

The extraordinary claim here is that the Earth is round.  That's what requires extraordinary evidence.

Quote
That wasn't the point of the review. The point of the review was that the methods used to reach the conclusions laid out in the book are flawed.

So you're going to blindly trust somebody else's opinion?  Why don't you try judging its methods for yourself instead of pointing to an obviously biased review?

Indoctrination is not synonymous with reading the factual evidence and possible stances, to confirm my stance on the subject.

Most people don't seem interested in doing that.

Quote
You want examples of indoctrination? Religious adherents are chock full of them.

I fully agree.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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ClockTower

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Re: A new Idea: flat earth in a sphere
« Reply #85 on: August 29, 2010, 08:48:11 PM »
So you're going to blindly trust somebody else's opinion?  Why don't you try judging its methods for yourself instead of pointing to an obviously biased review?
Please support your claim that the review is obviously biased. Or are you just making things up again?
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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markjo

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Re: A new Idea: flat earth in a sphere
« Reply #86 on: August 29, 2010, 08:48:53 PM »
Unfortunately, if the Earth is flat, as it appears to be, such speculation is pure science-fiction.  

Who said anything about the view from the earth?  Are you suggesting that FET precludes any object in the universe from being a 7900 mile diameter sphere?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

EnglshGentleman

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Re: A new Idea: flat earth in a sphere
« Reply #87 on: August 29, 2010, 08:52:16 PM »
So you're going to blindly trust somebody else's opinion?  Why don't you try judging its methods for yourself instead of pointing to an obviously biased review?
Please support your claim that the review is obviously biased. Or are you just making things up again?

They present in a style to try to make any model of the Earth that isn't round seem ridiculous. Just look at the first page. Obvious bias.

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ClockTower

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Re: A new Idea: flat earth in a sphere
« Reply #88 on: August 29, 2010, 08:56:47 PM »
So you're going to blindly trust somebody else's opinion?  Why don't you try judging its methods for yourself instead of pointing to an obviously biased review?
Please support your claim that the review is obviously biased. Or are you just making things up again?

They present in a style to try to make any model of the Earth that isn't round seem ridiculous. Just look at the first page. Obvious bias.

I see no obvious bias, but I fear that FEers and the FEDAs might be so paranoid as to conclude that everyone else is out to get them. Professionals in the mental health field can assist those with paranoia.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Ericleb01

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Re: A new Idea: flat earth in a sphere
« Reply #89 on: August 29, 2010, 09:00:21 PM »
The extraordinary claim here is that the Earth is round.  That's what requires extraordinary evidence.

Perhaps, in your view; but the fact remains that you were making a positive claim, whereas I was making a negative.

Quote
So you're going to blindly trust somebody else's opinion?  Why don't you try judging its methods for yourself instead of pointing to an obviously biased review?

I think you talk quicker than you read. Misread the post, thus eating my own words, ironically. I have enough confidence in my views of the shape of our planet to be able to safely take this "biased" review seriously. I'm not saying that I'm close-minded either; only that I have other priorities.

Most people don't seem interested in doing that.

Unfortunately. That's the main problem with society; no opinion on anything other than their own lives.

But scientists strive to keep everything as factual as possible, so that people don't have to look for an answer to something. FET is simply not credible enough to be placed at par.

Quote
I fully agree.

Good. I was beginning to think that most FETists were blind followers of the Bible. I'm glad to find out I was wrong.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2010, 09:34:59 PM by Ericleb01 »
Quote from: Carl Sagan
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.