The Planets and the Stars...

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The Planets and the Stars...
« on: December 24, 2009, 09:36:11 PM »
The stars are above us at 3100 miles away (according to the FAQ). The FAQ doesn't address how far away the planets are. I will assume the the planets are just as far away in FET as they are in RET, or at least farther away than the stars that are 3100 miles above us.

Now, given this, why is it if you take a telescope and observe a planet, let's just say Mars, it will appear closer than the stars in the sky which are supposed to be closer than the planets?


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parsec

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Re: The Planets and the Stars...
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2009, 11:59:32 PM »
The planets are considered 'stars' in the loose form of the word, since there is no Solar system.

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grogberries

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Re: The Planets and the Stars...
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2009, 11:53:12 AM »
Size alone has no merit to the distance of an object.
Think hard. Think Flat.

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James

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Re: The Planets and the Stars...
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2009, 04:36:47 PM »
The stars are really just far away planets.
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Sutekh

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Re: The Planets and the Stars...
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2009, 01:34:39 AM »
The stars are really just far away planets.

really. they give out radiation like the sun, many of them, g type stars. whoops sorry i ment g type planets.

p.s.!!! scientists believe the planets orbit the sun with the earth, which is itself a planet, and using this model, can accurate predict locations of planets for years to come.

At what point do you guys give up your conspiracy idea? When you're kids come back from moon base alpha in the year 2025, or maybe the shuttle they were on had fake windows and was really a flight simulator?!?
« Last Edit: December 26, 2009, 04:02:22 AM by Sutekh »

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Mookie89

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Re: The Planets and the Stars...
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2009, 01:16:43 PM »
The stars are really just far away planets.

really. they give out radiation like the sun, many of them, g type stars. whoops sorry i ment g type planets.

p.s.!!! scientists believe the planets orbit the sun with the earth, which is itself a planet, and using this model, can accurate predict locations of planets for years to come.

At what point do you guys give up your conspiracy idea? When you're kids come back from moon base alpha in the year 2025, or maybe the shuttle they were on had fake windows and was really a flight simulator?!?

This.
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James

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Re: The Planets and the Stars...
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2009, 05:16:38 AM »
The stars are really just far away planets.

really. they give out radiation like the sun, many of them, g type stars. whoops sorry i ment g type planets.

So do planets. Planets give off light and radiation too.

p.s.!!! scientists believe the planets orbit the sun with the earth, which is itself a planet, and using this model, can accurate predict locations of planets for years to come.

The Sun is not a planet.

At what point do you guys give up your conspiracy idea? When you're kids come back from moon base alpha in the year 2025, or maybe the shuttle they were on had fake windows and was really a flight simulator?!?

When the Conspiracy has rotted the atmolayer so badly that the air is toxic, and melted the Ice Wall, causing massive catastrophic flooding and climate change, I'll probably stop arguing FET because I'll be too busy hunter-gathering in a lawless, apocalyptic wasteland.
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

Re: The Planets and the Stars...
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2009, 07:22:17 AM »
How do you rot the atmolayer? Is this global warming? Don't you think the geniuses who keep this conspiracy going want to live/smart enough to not rape the world? Do you just hate rich people and big business?

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markjo

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Re: The Planets and the Stars...
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2009, 09:01:37 AM »
When the Conspiracy has rotted the atmolayer so badly that the air is toxic, and melted the Ice Wall, causing massive catastrophic flooding and climate change, I'll probably stop arguing FET because I'll be too busy hunter-gathering in a lawless, apocalyptic wasteland.

I'm sorry, but what does a satanic conspiracy to rot the atmolayer have to do with the conspiracy to hide the true shape of the earth again?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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James

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Re: The Planets and the Stars...
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2009, 11:36:57 AM »
How do you rot the atmolayer? Is this global warming? Don't you think the geniuses who keep this conspiracy going want to live/smart enough to not rape the world? Do you just hate rich people and big business?

It's not "global" warming. Even your use of language reveals that you're under the mind-control of the globular-chauvanist paradigm of contemporary society. The Earth is warming up, yes, and this is melting the Ice Wall.

And no, I don't think the Conspiracy care about the long-term survival of the Earth.

I'm sorry, but what does a satanic conspiracy to rot the atmolayer have to do with the conspiracy to hide the true shape of the earth again?

If people knew the truth about so-called "global" (i.e. planar) warming, that is, that it will spell out the death of all life on Earth by destroying the Ice Wall, there would surely be widespread public outrage and the airlines and aerospace contractors would come under attack. This is why they came together under the Church of Satan in the 1960's, partly in order to protect their existing interests, but also to bring about the greatest Space-Hoax of them all - GPS and Space Travel generally.
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

Re: The Planets and the Stars...
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2009, 11:49:55 AM »
How do you rot the atmolayer? Is this global warming? Don't you think the geniuses who keep this conspiracy going want to live/smart enough to not rape the world? Do you just hate rich people and big business?

It's not "global" warming. Even your use of language reveals that you're under the mind-control of the globular-chauvanist paradigm of contemporary society. The Earth is warming up, yes, and this is melting the Ice Wall.

And no, I don't think the Conspiracy care about the long-term survival of the Earth.

I'm sorry, but what does a satanic conspiracy to rot the atmolayer have to do with the conspiracy to hide the true shape of the earth again?

If people knew the truth about so-called "global" (i.e. planar) warming, that is, that it will spell out the death of all life on Earth by destroying the Ice Wall, there would surely be widespread public outrage and the airlines and aerospace contractors would come under attack. This is why they came together under the Church of Satan in the 1960's, partly in order to protect their existing interests, but also to bring about the greatest Space-Hoax of them all - GPS and Space Travel generally.
There is a whole lot of crazy going on in the second paragraph. Do you have any evidence of the world leaders coming together under the Church of Satan in the 1960's?

Re: The Planets and the Stars...
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2009, 11:51:07 AM »
Stop being prejudice against Satan. Also Global Warming is neither proven nor that bad. All of Russia becomes fertile. We have technology to cheaply combat global warming if it gets too bad. Besides how in gods (Allah in my case) name do they rot the atmolayer? Also, you just seem anti government and rich people. Whats wrong with them?

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markjo

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Re: The Planets and the Stars...
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2009, 11:53:13 AM »
And no, I don't think the Conspiracy care about the long-term survival of the Earth.

Seeing as space travel is impossible in a FE, a dead earth leaves limited options for the survival of the conspiracy.

I'm sorry, but what does a satanic conspiracy to rot the atmolayer have to do with the conspiracy to hide the true shape of the earth again?

If people knew the truth about so-called "global" (i.e. planar) warming, that is, that it will spell out the death of all life on Earth by destroying the Ice Wall, there would surely be widespread public outrage and the airlines and aerospace contractors would come under attack. This is why they came together under the Church of Satan in the 1960's, partly in order to protect their existing interests, but also to bring about the greatest Space-Hoax of them all - GPS and Space Travel generally.

Does the conspiracy really expect Satan to save them when the rest of the earth dies?  ???
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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James

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Re: The Planets and the Stars...
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2009, 12:17:33 PM »
Stop being prejudice against Satan. Also Global Warming is neither proven nor that bad. All of Russia becomes fertile. We have technology to cheaply combat global warming if it gets too bad. Besides how in gods (Allah in my case) name do they rot the atmolayer? Also, you just seem anti government and rich people. Whats wrong with them?

You actually doubt the existence of climate change? And I thought I was a fringe science proponent! Do you realise that the entire educated world disagrees with you?

And no, I don't think the Conspiracy care about the long-term survival of the Earth.

Seeing as space travel is impossible in a FE, a dead earth leaves limited options for the survival of the conspiracy.

You realise that pretty much the focal doctrine of Satanism is the championing of the carnal hedonistic self? The Conspiracy doesn't care what happens after their own lifetimes.
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

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Re: The Planets and the Stars...
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2009, 12:27:22 PM »

You actually doubt the existence of climate change? And I thought I was a fringe science proponent! Do you realise that the entire educated world disagrees with you?


There are actually quite a few people in the scientific community (something of which you are not part, James) who disagree with global warming as a proven concept. However, the mood of popular science at the moment means it's hard for these people to get their voices heard or a platform to get their theories more recognition. That doesn't mean they are wrong. One only has to look at the history of medicine to see how hushing the unpopular view has caused decades of ignorance to be perpetuated.
Having said that, I personally believe in global warming but not that it will become the disaster it's touted to be. We have had a much hotter climate in the past, with temperate forests in Antarctica. I wonder why the Ice Wall didn't melt then?
Gayer doesn't live in an atmosphere of vaporised mustard like you appear to, based on your latest photo.

Re: The Planets and the Stars...
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2009, 12:47:54 PM »
Extremely cheap and easy way to reverse CO2 use (BTW humans only produce like 10% of all CO2). Dump a lot of iron in a certain pacific region which has been iron deficient for a long time. Plankton will bloom and eat up a lot of the extra CO2. Happy? I can link you to a couple articles about this. It is also very cheap (Only a couple billion dollars which is cheap on reversing Global Warming which might be due to increased sun activity, etc. and not just Humans).

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markjo

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Re: The Planets and the Stars...
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2009, 01:17:53 PM »
And no, I don't think the Conspiracy care about the long-term survival of the Earth.

Seeing as space travel is impossible in a FE, a dead earth leaves limited options for the survival of the conspiracy.

You realise that pretty much the focal doctrine of Satanism is the championing of the carnal hedonistic self? The Conspiracy doesn't care what happens after their own lifetimes.

Interesting.  I've always thought that one of the highest priorities of any conspiracy was the continuation of the conspiracy.  :-\
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: The Planets and the Stars...
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2009, 07:16:29 AM »
And no, I don't think the Conspiracy care about the long-term survival of the Earth.

Seeing as space travel is impossible in a FE, a dead earth leaves limited options for the survival of the conspiracy.


Seeing as interplanetary space travel is unfeasible in RET, a dead Earth leaves limited options for anybody. If the entire planet can ignore the problem, why not The Conspiracy?
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

Re: The Planets and the Stars...
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2009, 07:53:08 AM »
Global warming can't destroy the world in less than 50 years and I think it is impossible. Technology in 50 years will be more than good enough to combat global warming. As I said earlier, we have cheap and effective methods of reversing Global Warming should it become too damaging.

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markjo

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Re: The Planets and the Stars...
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2009, 09:23:45 AM »
Seeing as interplanetary space travel is unfeasible in RET, a dead Earth leaves limited options for anybody. If the entire planet can ignore the problem, why not The Conspiracy?

Unfeasible, perhaps, but not impossible.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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James

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Re: The Planets and the Stars...
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2009, 12:02:45 PM »
Global warming can't destroy the world in less than 50 years and I think it is impossible. Technology in 50 years will be more than good enough to combat global warming. As I said earlier, we have cheap and effective methods of reversing Global Warming should it become too damaging.

Some of the best equipped and most highly organised and motivated civilizations of history have had shelf-lives of maybe a few hundred years at best before descending into abominable ruin. Consider that fact, and then consider our contemporary ability, our continence as individuals and as communities, to deal with our most basic and urgent problems.

Your mind-numbed optimism is heavily misplaced and has countless tragic historical precedents.

You're simply incorrect about the ease of reversing global climate change. Shockingly false. If you were even close to correct, it would not be so crucially important to our longevity as a civilization that we radically cut our carbon emissions, the bane of the Conspiracy which would spell their downfall and humanity's redemption. Regrettably, a divisive, hyperhedonist, cryptosatanic media machine will keep you shrugging your shoulders until the irradiated, starving looters are making their way up your front lawn under a searing, poisonous sky. Personally, I hope the catastrophic widespread flooding of low-lying coastal areas finishes me off before this happens.
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

Re: The Planets and the Stars...
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2009, 01:12:27 PM »
So your saying, because all previous civilizations failed, we will fail too? Also Britain has been doing well for over half a millennium. Why don't' you attack my arguement? You haven't shown why my method can't halt global warming (which you haven't proved is caused by humans or harmful yet).

Science has done a lot in the last 50 years, and will do far more in the next 50. A great book to read is by Ray Kurzweil and it's the Singularity is Near. Read it and you will see that the world will be a lot better in 50 years.


Why does the Conspiracy gain so much from destroying the atmosphere? The atmosphere is not a resource they can really use. We use far more fossil fuels in cars and electricity.

Your entire post had no real content. You said civilizations fail, I am optimistic, and the conspiracy will destroy us all. Why don't you answer my posts before you peddle even more fringe theories than FE.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: The Planets and the Stars...
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2009, 05:01:47 PM »
Quote
So your saying, because all previous civilizations failed, we will fail too? Also Britain has been doing well for over half a millennium. Why don't' you attack my arguement? You haven't shown why my method can't halt global warming (which you haven't proved is caused by humans or harmful yet).

I personally doubt that Global Warming will cause any measurable impact. I'm more worried about Peak Oil.

Quote
Science has done a lot in the last 50 years, and will do far more in the next 50. A great book to read is by Ray Kurzweil and it's the Singularity is Near. Read it and you will see that the world will be a lot better in 50 years.

Our technology is really quite primitive. Anyone who says that we're going to be brisked away by a singularity is seriously deluded.

The entire basis seems to be nutters who look at Moore's law and conclude that integrated circuits will just keep getting smaller and faster exponentially. Well guess what. CPU speed hit a brick wall a number of years ago. CPUs can't be made any smaller due to heat issues. Another order of magnitude in reduction would cause the chip to melt, which is why everything has been moving over to dual core. Sticking two processors together does nothing to improve existing processor technology.

They also assume that software progresses just as hardware does/has, and will scale to create a successful AI. This is an entirely specious idea. Software remains many generations behind hardware, being a language of skill. It does not progress in tandem with More's Law. The advancement of a computer program is entirely dependent on the skill of the programmer. And as we all know, human skill does not advance exponentially.

The Singularity is an utter and complete fantasy.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2009, 07:00:10 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: The Planets and the Stars...
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2009, 05:09:21 PM »
Did you read the book? Doesn't seem like it. Also you really don't seem to understand microprocessors at all. Shrinking chips reduces heat. We run into walls for many other reasons but silicon is not the only way computers work.

Also I provided a very simple, cost effective way to stop global warming. No one has discussed it all. Also we can create oil from electricity and other sources. While expensive, if gas prices ever raise that far, we have a way to combat them.

I didn't say we will be swept away but his graphs do make the world seem like it is on an exponential path to its technology creation. Your last statement about human skill is exactly the thing you would not have said if you read and understood the book. You obviously know little of microprocessors and lithography and modern technology. 

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markjo

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Re: The Planets and the Stars...
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2009, 06:54:47 PM »
The entire basis seems to be nutters who look at Moore's law and conclude that integrated circuits will just keep getting smaller and smaller exponentially. Well guess what. CPU speed hit a brick wall a number of years ago. CPUs can't be made any smaller due to heat issues. Another order of magnitude in reduction would cause the chip to melt, which is why everything has been moving over to dual core. Sticking two processors together does nothing to improve existing processor technology.

First of all, Moore's Law is not a law, it's a rule of tumb.
Secondly, smaller fabrication processes reduce energy consumption and heat generation.  Adding more transistors increases energy consumption and heat generation.
Third, the brick walls that chip makers run into have more to do with current leakage in circuits only several hundred atoms wide.
Fourth, multiple core processors require advances in memory management, instruction scheduling and parallelization technologies in order to effectively use those extra cores.
Fifth, this latest tangent that you've gone off on is irrelevant and off topic.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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James

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Re: The Planets and the Stars...
« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2009, 02:33:03 AM »
Did you read the book? Doesn't seem like it. Also you really don't seem to understand microprocessors at all. Shrinking chips reduces heat. We run into walls for many other reasons but silicon is not the only way computers work.

Also I provided a very simple, cost effective way to stop global warming. No one has discussed it all. Also we can create oil from electricity and other sources. While expensive, if gas prices ever raise that far, we have a way to combat them.

That's because your "cheap and effective way to stop global warming" is barmy pseudoscience. Why is it that no politicians or scientists at Copenhagen are suggesting this simple easy way to avert global catastrophe? Why would they be begrudgingly signing away their future dependence on fossil fuels if your claims were anything close to reality? Perhaps you ought to write to Gordon Brown and tell him about this, because I don't think he's heard! Let's drop all our bloody pots and pans in the ocean! Problem solved!

By the way, by "a pacific region", do you mean an area of the Pacific ocean, or do you mean "specific"?
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

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Tom Bishop

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Re: The Planets and the Stars...
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2009, 02:39:06 AM »
Quote
First of all, Moore's Law is not a law, it's a rule of tumb.

It's obviously not a law, seeing as it stopped dead in its tracks several years ago.

Quote
Secondly, smaller fabrication processes reduce energy consumption and heat generation.

Um, no. When you shrink the chips to create faster clock times it actually increases the heat generation since the circuits are so close together and so much energy has to pump through it.

Quote
Third, the brick walls that chip makers run into have more to do with current leakage in circuits only several hundred atoms wide.

No. It's primarily a heat issue.

Quote
Fourth, multiple core processors require advances in memory management, instruction scheduling and parallelization technologies in order to effectively use those extra cores.

Dual computing does nothing to increase clock speed of processors.

It's like adding another horse to pull the wagon. It's not making the horse any faster. It's just reducing the load.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2009, 06:34:14 PM by Tom Bishop »

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markjo

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Re: The Planets and the Stars...
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2009, 06:29:17 AM »
Quote
First of all, Moore's Law is not a law, it's a rule of tumb.

It's obviously not a law, seeing as it stopped dead in its tracks several years ago.

Moore's law had do do with the number of transistors on a chip, not clock speed or processor speed.  Chip makers are still putting more and more transistors on chips.

Quote
Secondly, smaller fabrication processes reduce energy consumption and heat generation.

Um, no. When you shrink the chips to create faster clock times it actually increases the heat generation since the circuits are so close together and so much energy has to pump through it.

A chip with the same number of transistors and a smaller feature size will use less power and generate less heat than a the same chip with a larger feature size.
Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_shrink
Die shrink is beneficial to the end users as well, as shrinking a die reduces the current leakage in semiconductor devices while maintaining the same clock frequency of a chip, making a product with less power consumptions, increased clock rate headrooms, and lowered prices.

Quote
Third, the brick walls that chip makers run into have more to do with current leakage in circuits only several hundred atoms wide.

No. It's primarily a heat issue.

Why do you need more power to run a smaller chip?  ???

Quote
Fourth, multiple core processors require advances in memory management, instruction scheduling and parallelization technologies in order to effectively use those extra cores.

Dual computing does nothing to increase clock speed of individual circuits.

It's like adding another horse to pull the wagon. It's not making the horse any faster. It's just reducing the load.

What does clock speed have to do with Moore's Law?  Besides, horses with lighter loads can generally run faster than horses with heavy loads.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: The Planets and the Stars...
« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2009, 07:00:00 AM »
Did you read the book? Doesn't seem like it. Also you really don't seem to understand microprocessors at all. Shrinking chips reduces heat. We run into walls for many other reasons but silicon is not the only way computers work.

Also I provided a very simple, cost effective way to stop global warming. No one has discussed it all. Also we can create oil from electricity and other sources. While expensive, if gas prices ever raise that far, we have a way to combat them.

That's because your "cheap and effective way to stop global warming" is barmy pseudoscience. Why is it that no politicians or scientists at Copenhagen are suggesting this simple easy way to avert global catastrophe? Why would they be begrudgingly signing away their future dependence on fossil fuels if your claims were anything close to reality? Perhaps you ought to write to Gordon Brown and tell him about this, because I don't think he's heard! Let's drop all our bloody pots and pans in the ocean! Problem solved!

By the way, by "a pacific region", do you mean an area of the Pacific ocean, or do you mean "specific"?

There is a specific spot. http://www.formal.stanford.edu/jmc/progress/iron/iron.html. I can get you much more stuff on it. It works and has worked but people are not concerned about GW because it is unclear if humans really have an effect and whether it is truly harmful.


Also Bishop honestly knows nothing about lithography. The whole point of the node switch is increasing transistors at lower heat. Please stop posting blatant lies.

Re: The Planets and the Stars...
« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2010, 09:59:24 PM »
The clock frequency issue touted by Bishop is not that big of a deal and definately does not really revolve around heat.  The main issues with the clock frequencies are two-fold: high frequency characteristics of circuits, and transistor gate switching speeds.

The high-frequency characteristics of a circuit are complex, because the chip could act like an antenna instead of a computer if the right path lengths aren't used.  This problem is avoidable with very careful selection of transistor placement.

The gate switching speeds was a problem until a group of researchers got a transistors to change logical states at a frequency of 500 GHz, well beyond the current limitation around 4 GHz.  Power doesn't really play into it, because we can always play the trump card of mandatory liquid cooling of processors if necessary.