What do FE'ers think of dinosaurs?

Ok, it has been explained to me over and over that not many here are religious like I am, and thus very few if any FEer's are motivated in their beliefs by the bible (despite the FAQ). So the bible is not my point, only my starting point. Like many Christians, I believe that dinosaurs certainly co-existed with humans. Because Adam was created in the first week and thus the dinos must have come and gone since then, while humans have been here all along.

But isn't the disappearance of the dinos most commonly explained by a giant meteor hitting the earth? I thought there were no giant meteors in FET? Why then did the dinos disappear? 

I'm sorry, but the dinosaurs certainly did not co-exist with humans. Your faith may compel you to believe it, but I am afraid the evidence does not.

And you're right, the dinosaurs were not killed by a giant meteor. Some overpopulated themselves, others may have destroyed themselves with their own technology, others still evolved into the birds we see around us today.

I'm sorry, but the dinosaurs certainly did not co-exist with humans. Your faith may compel you to believe it, but I am afraid the evidence does not.

And you're right, the dinosaurs were not killed by a giant meteor. Some overpopulated themselves, others may have destroyed themselves with their own technology, others still evolved into the birds we see around us today.

Destroyed themselves with their own technology?

Quote from: James on December 22, 2009, 03:41:27 PM

I'm sorry, but the dinosaurs certainly did not co-exist with humans. Your faith may compel you to believe it, but I am afraid the evidence does not.

And you're right, the dinosaurs were not killed by a giant meteor. Some overpopulated themselves, others may have destroyed themselves with their own technology, others still evolved into the birds we see around us today.

Destroyed themselves with their own technology?

And if we ourselves are not careful, we too may go the way of the dinosaurs.

I'm sorry, but the dinosaurs certainly did not co-exist with humans. Your faith may compel you to believe it, but I am afraid the evidence does not.

And you're right, the dinosaurs were not killed by a giant meteor. Some overpopulated themselves, others may have destroyed themselves with their own technology, others still evolved into the birds we see around us today.

What technology did dinosaurs have?

Obviously just enough technology to spread their fossils to many continents, because this is the only way it would work on a flat earth apparently!

What about the petrified remains of Homo Sapiens that have been found that did exist in the same timeframe as dinosaurs? Even if it was during the extreme wane of them, it is now widely accepted that there was a brief period where we co-existed for a time.

Goodnight all!
- Optimus

Dinos I dont know. But I think all animals show strong tendency to come closer to the North Pole, and maybe merge with it.

Even Antarctic animals coming to the shores from the very south(from nowhere) will make their parade to North Pole.

I'm sorry, but the dinosaurs certainly did not co-exist with humans. Your faith may compel you to believe it, but I am afraid the evidence does not.

And you're right, the dinosaurs were not killed by a giant meteor. Some overpopulated themselves, others may have destroyed themselves with their own technology, others still evolved into the birds we see around us today.

James, dinosaurs clearly existed even way back in biblical times. Do you believe that dinosaurs appeared during the middle-ages, ate all the humans, and then humans evolved? Something like that? 

James, dinosaurs clearly existed even way back in biblical times.

Your definition of clear, must be vastly different than mine.

Do you believe that dinosaurs appeared during the middle-ages, ate all the humans, and then humans evolved? Something like that?

Your sentence is not even coherent.  There is no way that humans existed at the same time of dinosaurs.  Even if you really really believe it.

Quote

James, dinosaurs clearly existed even way back in biblical times.

Your definition of clear, must be vastly different than mine.

Quote

Do you believe that dinosaurs appeared during the middle-ages, ate all the humans, and then humans evolved? Something like that?

Your sentence is not even coherent.  There is no way that humans existed at the same time of dinosaurs.  Even if you really really believe it.

I think this is pretty basic math here. Non-parallel lines in 2D must intersect. Humans have existed from the first week of creation up until the present. Dinosaurs existed at some point. Ergo, they must have co-existed at some point. 

I think this is pretty basic math here. Non-parallel lines in 2D must intersect.

Huh?  Why do you equate living beings to infinate lines?

Humans have existed from the first week of creation up until the present. Dinosaurs existed at some point. Ergo, they must have co-existed at some point.

How do you know that Dinosaurs existed at some point?

I never thought I'd see the day I agree with James...

Dino - There's no chance that donosaurs coexisted with humans.  There is no evidence for it whatsoever.  In fact, the evidence points to a sixty five million year gap between the last dino and the first human!
Even most Christians see the book of genesis as a metaphor, not reality.  Even some creationists see the seven days as seven "acts" far apart (an old science teacher of mine believed this, so I'm not making it up to prove a point).

And James.  Although this has been done to death in the dinosaur thread, there is no evidence for dinosaur technology at all.  I won't go inot detail here, it's all been said before.

As far as the extinction(s) go, there are several theories.  The main one, yes, is a meteor.  The evidence for this can be seen in the gulf of mexico - a whacking great crater.  Plus the worldwide Iridium anomaly, shocked quartz, and massive climate change.
Other theories include climate change due to flood volcanism (the Deccan traps, evidence seen around most of India), and stagnation of the oceans leading to Hydrogen Sulphide poisoning.  

I never thought I'd see the day I agree with James...

Dino - There's no chance that donosaurs coexisted with humans.  There is no evidence for it whatsoever.  In fact, the evidence points to a sixty five million year gap between the last dino and the first human!
Even most Christians see the book of genesis as a metaphor, not reality.  Even some creationists see the seven days as seven "acts" far apart (an old science teacher of mine believed this, so I'm not making it up to prove a point).

And James.  Although this has been done to death in the dinosaur thread, there is no evidence for dinosaur technology at all.  I won't go inot detail here, it's all been said before.

As far as the extinction(s) go, there are several theories.  The main one, yes, is a meteor.  The evidence for this can be seen in the gulf of mexico - a whacking great crater.  Plus the worldwide Iridium anomaly, shocked quartz, and massive climate change.
Other theories include climate change due to flood volcanism (the Deccan traps, evidence seen around most of India), and stagnation of the oceans leading to Hydrogen Sulphide poisoning.  

Modern day Christians who consider the book of genesis to be metaphor are not true Christians. Don't you think the original readers of the bible, even before the time of Christ, took the book of genesis literally? Why would God want the bible to have one meaning for believers living in one time period but a different, metaphoric meaning for believers living at another time? If the bible keeps changing meaning over time, what is the point?

Modern day Christians who consider the book of genesis to be metaphor are not true Christians. Don't you think the original readers of the bible, even before the time of Christ, took the book of genesis literally? Why would God want the bible to have one meaning for believers living in one time period but a different, metaphoric meaning for believers living at another time? If the bible keeps changing meaning over time, what is the point?

I'm sure you are fluent in Hebrew then if the original message of the Bible is so important to you.  Yes?

Please answer my other questions.

There is no such thing as a "true Christian"!

Most of the bible, is assumed to be written long after the death of Christ.
Kudos to Dino, for catching my cock-up here...

And still, modern science beats the bible at almost every turn.  Actual evidence is presented, and conclusions are drawn from that.

The bible does not mention dinosaurs at all.  Not one single bit. You'd think they'd crop up somewhere if they co existed with Humans...





I do hope you're trollin...

Quote

I think this is pretty basic math here. Non-parallel lines in 2D must intersect.

Huh?  Why do you equate living beings to infinate lines?

Quote

Humans have existed from the first week of creation up until the present. Dinosaurs existed at some point. Ergo, they must have co-existed at some point.

How do you know that Dinosaurs existed at some point?

Why can't you think of them as lines? OK, I'll drop the math if you can't follow it.

Humans have existed in an unbroken line across time from the week of creation up until the present. Dino's existed at some point in that same period of time. Thus they must have co-existed. Granted, I can't prove dinos existed at all, but if assume they existed at all you must assume they co-existed with humans at some point.

There is no such thing as a "true Christian"!

And the bible, even Genesis, is assumed to be written long after the death of Christ.
http://www.gotquestions.org/Book-of-Genesis.html

And still, modern science beats the bible at almost every turn.  Actual evidence is presented, and conclusions are drawn from that.

The bible does not mention dinosaurs at all.  Not one single bit. You'd think they'd crop up somewhere if they co existed with Humans...





I do hope you're trollin...

The site you quoted claims Genesis appeared in the 15 century BC. That would mean, um, a bit before Christ.

You are right, the bible does not mention dinosaurs at all. But why would it bother to mention the obvious if they were abundant and everywhere? The Koran makes no mention of camels. Do you think there were no camels in Arabia in the 7th century? In fact, as has been noted, the absence of camels in the Koran is good proof that it was an authentic Arabic work.

Quote from: Joeval on December 23, 2009, 02:48:25 PM

There is no such thing as a "true Christian"!

And the bible, even Genesis, is assumed to be written long after the death of Christ.
http://www.gotquestions.org/Book-of-Genesis.html

And still, modern science beats the bible at almost every turn.  Actual evidence is presented, and conclusions are drawn from that.

The bible does not mention dinosaurs at all.  Not one single bit. You'd think they'd crop up somewhere if they co existed with Humans...




I do hope you're trollin...

The site you quoted claims Genesis appeared in the 15 century BC. That would mean, um, a bit before Christ.

You are right, the bible does not mention dinosaurs at all. But why would it bother to mention the obvious if they were abundant and everywhere? The Koran makes no mention of camels. Do you think there were no camels in Arabia in the 7th century? In fact, as has been noted, the absence of camels in the Koran is good proof that it was an authentic Arabic work.

Ah, you're right on that one.  I just saw 1440 and assumed AD.  Looks like I ought to read my sources first...  Sorry bout that!  I'll go edit my post...

Right then.  Onto a proper post!
Regardless of what is and isn't mentioned in the Bible, the evidence is there that dinos existed, and went extinct, a good 65 million years before humans came about. 

Quote from: Dino on December 23, 2009, 02:55:43 PM

Quote from: Joeval on December 23, 2009, 02:48:25 PM

There is no such thing as a "true Christian"!

And the bible, even Genesis, is assumed to be written long after the death of Christ.
http://www.gotquestions.org/Book-of-Genesis.html

And still, modern science beats the bible at almost every turn.  Actual evidence is presented, and conclusions are drawn from that.

The bible does not mention dinosaurs at all.  Not one single bit. You'd think they'd crop up somewhere if they co existed with Humans...




I do hope you're trollin...

The site you quoted claims Genesis appeared in the 15 century BC. That would mean, um, a bit before Christ.

You are right, the bible does not mention dinosaurs at all. But why would it bother to mention the obvious if they were abundant and everywhere? The Koran makes no mention of camels. Do you think there were no camels in Arabia in the 7th century? In fact, as has been noted, the absence of camels in the Koran is good proof that it was an authentic Arabic work.

Ah, you're right on that one.  I just saw 1440 and assumed AD.  Looks like I ought to read my sources first...  Sorry bout that!  I'll go edit my post...

Right then.  Onto a proper post!
Regardless of what is and isn't mentioned in the Bible, the evidence is there that dinos existed, and went extinct, a good 65 million years before humans came about. 

I suspect that humans hunted and ate the dinos into extinction, much like we are about to eat all the fish into extinction.

Quote from: Joeval on December 23, 2009, 02:59:11 PM

Quote from: Dino on December 23, 2009, 02:55:43 PM

Quote from: Joeval on December 23, 2009, 02:48:25 PM

There is no such thing as a "true Christian"!

And the bible, even Genesis, is assumed to be written long after the death of Christ.
http://www.gotquestions.org/Book-of-Genesis.html

And still, modern science beats the bible at almost every turn.  Actual evidence is presented, and conclusions are drawn from that.

The bible does not mention dinosaurs at all.  Not one single bit. You'd think they'd crop up somewhere if they co existed with Humans...




I do hope you're trollin...

The site you quoted claims Genesis appeared in the 15 century BC. That would mean, um, a bit before Christ.

You are right, the bible does not mention dinosaurs at all. But why would it bother to mention the obvious if they were abundant and everywhere? The Koran makes no mention of camels. Do you think there were no camels in Arabia in the 7th century? In fact, as has been noted, the absence of camels in the Koran is good proof that it was an authentic Arabic work.

Ah, you're right on that one.  I just saw 1440 and assumed AD.  Looks like I ought to read my sources first...  Sorry bout that!  I'll go edit my post...

Right then.  Onto a proper post!
Regardless of what is and isn't mentioned in the Bible, the evidence is there that dinos existed, and went extinct, a good 65 million years before humans came about. 

I suspect that humans hunted and ate the dinos into extinction, much like we are about to eat all the fish into extinction.

And the wealth of geological evidence counts for nothing?

Quote from: James on December 22, 2009, 03:41:27 PM

I'm sorry, but the dinosaurs certainly did not co-exist with humans. Your faith may compel you to believe it, but I am afraid the evidence does not.

And you're right, the dinosaurs were not killed by a giant meteor. Some overpopulated themselves, others may have destroyed themselves with their own technology, others still evolved into the birds we see around us today.

What technology did dinosaurs have?

Boats, fishing, agriculture.

Quote from: RoundEarth_101 on December 22, 2009, 10:32:01 PM

Quote from: James on December 22, 2009, 03:41:27 PM

I'm sorry, but the dinosaurs certainly did not co-exist with humans. Your faith may compel you to believe it, but I am afraid the evidence does not.

And you're right, the dinosaurs were not killed by a giant meteor. Some overpopulated themselves, others may have destroyed themselves with their own technology, others still evolved into the birds we see around us today.

What technology did dinosaurs have?

Boats, fishing, agriculture.

And not a single shred of evidence for any of it.

EDIT:  But that's a discussion for the Dino thread...
This is about the extinction of the dinosaurs, and when they were actually alive, not what they did or didn't do.

Quote from: Dino on December 23, 2009, 03:12:35 PM

Quote from: Joeval on December 23, 2009, 02:59:11 PM

Quote from: Dino on December 23, 2009, 02:55:43 PM

Quote from: Joeval on December 23, 2009, 02:48:25 PM

There is no such thing as a "true Christian"!

And the bible, even Genesis, is assumed to be written long after the death of Christ.
http://www.gotquestions.org/Book-of-Genesis.html

And still, modern science beats the bible at almost every turn.  Actual evidence is presented, and conclusions are drawn from that.

The bible does not mention dinosaurs at all.  Not one single bit. You'd think they'd crop up somewhere if they co existed with Humans...




I do hope you're trollin...

The site you quoted claims Genesis appeared in the 15 century BC. That would mean, um, a bit before Christ.

You are right, the bible does not mention dinosaurs at all. But why would it bother to mention the obvious if they were abundant and everywhere? The Koran makes no mention of camels. Do you think there were no camels in Arabia in the 7th century? In fact, as has been noted, the absence of camels in the Koran is good proof that it was an authentic Arabic work.

Ah, you're right on that one.  I just saw 1440 and assumed AD.  Looks like I ought to read my sources first...  Sorry bout that!  I'll go edit my post...

Right then.  Onto a proper post!
Regardless of what is and isn't mentioned in the Bible, the evidence is there that dinos existed, and went extinct, a good 65 million years before humans came about. 

I suspect that humans hunted and ate the dinos into extinction, much like we are about to eat all the fish into extinction.

And the wealth of geological evidence counts for nothing?

I suppose if you don't believe in God then your assumption would be that everything that has happened to the earth has been entirely natural. But God has intervened in the world. Raining frogs for instance. Flooding the entire earth.  God has perturbed the earth a bit, particularly way back when. The geological record makes the earth look a lot older than it really is. If you find evidence of something older than the age of the earth, then either the evidence is wrong or the age of the earth is wrong. An atheist will say the age of the earth according to the bible is wrong. A believer will say the evidence is wrong. I disagree with the "evidence" on faith based grounds.    

Quote from: RoundEarth_101 on December 22, 2009, 10:32:01 PM

Quote from: James on December 22, 2009, 03:41:27 PM

I'm sorry, but the dinosaurs certainly did not co-exist with humans. Your faith may compel you to believe it, but I am afraid the evidence does not.

And you're right, the dinosaurs were not killed by a giant meteor. Some overpopulated themselves, others may have destroyed themselves with their own technology, others still evolved into the birds we see around us today.

What technology did dinosaurs have?

Boats, fishing, agriculture.

Ridiculous. The dinosaurs lumbered around while the humans, with their technology, hunted them down and ate them all.

Here is a question for evolutionists: If the dinosaurs evolved naturally and dominated the earth for a hundred million of years (according to science) and then were wiped out by a meteor or a volcanic dust cloud or whatever -- why didn't they re-evolve? Why did humans supposedly evolve instead? Think about it. If the dinosaurs were the fittest creatures on earth for so long--and became so do to a long natural process of evolution, shouldn't they have again beaten humans to the evolutionary punch, so to speak? In which case the monkeys would have never gotten out of the trees--or even in them, or they would have been eaten by a T-Rex. It makes more sense to believe that they coexisted, that humans were always dominant, and that the dinos were the prey and victim of man.
 

Well, there's not really a lot one can say against that, aside from insulting religion, and I don't believe in doing that.  Nicely done for admitting the faith bit though, it's better than most of the other FE'ers who tend to ignore the evidence for no good reason...

Although I will say, flooding the entire earth would definitely leave a trace in the geological record!


To answer your question.
It is thought mammals were beginning to evolve in the Cretaceous, while dinos were still dominant.  They were wiped out, but some mammals survived.  A mixture of a change in environmental conditions, and the presence of these mammals meant that they evolved, not dinos again - the mammals had a head start, as it were.  From there, they differentiated into various ancestors to what we have today, and some that no longer exist in any shape or form.

But to be fair, the precise mechanisms are unknown, and science admits it.  What we do know comes from stratigraphy, fossil evidence and dating techniques.


EDIT:  Dino, if you want, there is a large Dinosaurs thread, where James's theory is properly discussed.  Have a read, and have a laugh.  Sorry James...

Quote from: Rasta on December 23, 2009, 02:28:02 PM

Quote

I think this is pretty basic math here. Non-parallel lines in 2D must intersect.

Huh?  Why do you equate living beings to infinate lines?

Quote

Humans have existed from the first week of creation up until the present. Dinosaurs existed at some point. Ergo, they must have co-existed at some point.

How do you know that Dinosaurs existed at some point?

Why can't you think of them as lines? OK, I'll drop the math if you can't follow it.

Humans have existed in an unbroken line across time from the week of creation up until the present. Dino's existed at some point in that same period of time. Thus they must have co-existed. Granted, I can't prove dinos existed at all, but if assume they existed at all you must assume they co-existed with humans at some point.

Oh, no the concept is very simplistic.  It's easy to comprehend the analogy.  I just think the analogy is poor, so I was curious why finite beings would be represented as infinity in your mind.

So you do assume that they existed?  Can you tell me why this assumption formed in your mind?

I'm also assuming that since you failed to answer my question about your literacy of Hebrew, that you know none.  Is this accurate?

Quote from: Joeval on December 23, 2009, 03:19:50 PM

Quote from: Dino on December 23, 2009, 03:12:35 PM

Quote from: Joeval on December 23, 2009, 02:59:11 PM

Quote from: Dino on December 23, 2009, 02:55:43 PM

Quote from: Joeval on December 23, 2009, 02:48:25 PM

There is no such thing as a "true Christian"!

And the bible, even Genesis, is assumed to be written long after the death of Christ.
http://www.gotquestions.org/Book-of-Genesis.html

And still, modern science beats the bible at almost every turn.  Actual evidence is presented, and conclusions are drawn from that.

The bible does not mention dinosaurs at all.  Not one single bit. You'd think they'd crop up somewhere if they co existed with Humans...




I do hope you're trollin...

The site you quoted claims Genesis appeared in the 15 century BC. That would mean, um, a bit before Christ.

You are right, the bible does not mention dinosaurs at all. But why would it bother to mention the obvious if they were abundant and everywhere? The Koran makes no mention of camels. Do you think there were no camels in Arabia in the 7th century? In fact, as has been noted, the absence of camels in the Koran is good proof that it was an authentic Arabic work.

Ah, you're right on that one.  I just saw 1440 and assumed AD.  Looks like I ought to read my sources first...  Sorry bout that!  I'll go edit my post...

Right then.  Onto a proper post!
Regardless of what is and isn't mentioned in the Bible, the evidence is there that dinos existed, and went extinct, a good 65 million years before humans came about. 

I suspect that humans hunted and ate the dinos into extinction, much like we are about to eat all the fish into extinction.

And the wealth of geological evidence counts for nothing?

I suppose if you don't believe in God then your assumption would be that everything that has happened to the earth has been entirely natural. But God has intervened in the world. Raining frogs for instance. Flooding the entire earth.  God has perturbed the earth a bit, particularly way back when. The geological record makes the earth look a lot older than it really is. If you find evidence of something older than the age of the earth, then either the evidence is wrong or the age of the earth is wrong. An atheist will say the age of the earth according to the bible is wrong. A believer will say the evidence is wrong. I disagree with the "evidence" on faith based grounds.    

Actually, it might surprise you to learn that the Bible does not have any dates recorded for the beginning of what you call "creation".  It might also surprise you to learn that there are many forms of writing in the Bible, and not everything was meant to be understood literally.  Let's presume that god exists.  How would god explain what we now understand as theoretical physics to bronze age sheep herders?  If god actually explained it to them in depth, their heads would explode.

do you have evidence the sheep herders heads would explode?