New Idea on Sunrise/Sunsets

So far I have found explanations for Sunrise/sets in the FAQ to be unsatisfying. Bendy light sounds ludicrous, and I don't see an explanation for why the sun should appear bigger in the distance as it sets.

Then it hit me. When we look at the sun we are not seeing the object itself but the wavefront of the light generated by the sun. This wavefront will spherically diverge and thus grow larger with distance. Since the energy becomes more diffuse as the wavefront grows larger, the sun will also appear dimmer at the same time it appears larger.

But what about it's appearance to sink into the earth completely? This would again be explained by the spherical divergence of the wavefront. Since the sun is moving horizontally across the sky, it will appear lower in the sky with distance. Once it has traveled far enough, and grown large enough, the bottom portion of the wavefront will no longer be viewable by an observer in the distance, only the upper part, which will appear to grow even larger, until finally it has moved far enough away that the energy is so diffuse by the time it reaches an observer, it is no longer visible to the human eye.   

Let me know if this theory is not new here.

Wow! And you thought BLT is ludicrous?!

So far I have found explanations for Sunrise/sets in the FAQ to be unsatisfying. Bendy light sounds ludicrous, and I don't see an explanation for why the sun should appear bigger in the distance as it sets.

Then it hit me. When we look at the sun we are not seeing the object itself but the wavefront of the light generated by the sun. This wavefront will spherically diverge and thus grow larger with distance. Since the energy becomes more diffuse as the wavefront grows larger, the sun will also appear dimmer at the same time it appears larger.

But what about it's appearance to sink into the earth completely? This would again be explained by the spherical divergence of the wavefront. Since the sun is moving horizontally across the sky, it will appear lower in the sky with distance. Once it has traveled far enough, and grown large enough, the bottom portion of the wavefront will no longer be viewable by an observer in the distance, only the upper part, which will appear to grow even larger, until finally it has moved far enough away that the energy is so diffuse by the time it reaches an observer, it is no longer visible to the human eye.  

Let me know if this theory is not new here.

Sorry! not an explanation. good try though.

the wavefronts from any object expand outwards with distance, but next time you look at say a car, when its 10 metrees away, 20 metres away, 30 metres away? notice it dosent looker bigger!!!

yes wavefronts expand out. but a distant object, as you look at it you detect only a part of its overall wavefront, say from one end of the car, and a bit of a wavefront from the other side of the car. both are coming in at you at a similar angle from a similar point in distant space i.e. youre looking at a distant object making a small angular size to you.

A person standing close on the other hand, observes lgihts form other ends of the car, incoming at radiacally different angles i.e. it look big angular wise.

There is no physics that can explain why the sun and moon are the same size as they move through the sky, if we assume they are small objects moving around a flat earth. Tom Bishop says glaring makes it bigger but the image as the sun moon move aren't glared much, certainly it would be biazarre glare that maintains the same size all the time lol crazy glare.

The round earth solar system model explains sunsets etc in about 3 millioniths of a second.

Tom Bishop says glaring makes it bigger but the image as the sun moon move aren't glared much, certainly it would be biazarre glare that maintains the same size all the time lol crazy glare.

I've provided examples of how light can grow to maintain its size in the Wiki.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Magnification+of+the+Sun+at+Sunset

Scroll down to the headlight example. The headlights down the highway into the distance remain exactly the same size

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Tom Bishop says glaring makes it bigger but the image as the sun moon move aren't glared much, certainly it would be biazarre glare that maintains the same size all the time lol crazy glare.

I've provided examples of how light can grow to maintain its size in the Wiki.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Magnification+of+the+Sun+at+Sunset

Scroll down to the headlight example. The headlights down the highway into the distance remain exactly the same size

Tom, no offence. Your explainations are so strange, I sometimes think, if there were really a conspiracy, they would deliberatly use agents pretending to be Flat earthers. They would then spread ideas so obviously wrong, as to convince people who aren't sure that the flat earth isin't true for sure.

Looking at anything through glare makes a mess, it dosent make a magnification. look at your link, the glared lights are deformed.

Your explainations are so strange

Truth is a strange concept to the brainwashed.

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Tom Bishop says glaring makes it bigger but the image as the sun moon move aren't glared much, certainly it would be biazarre glare that maintains the same size all the time lol crazy glare.

I've provided examples of how light can grow to maintain its size in the Wiki.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Magnification+of+the+Sun+at+Sunset

Scroll down to the headlight example. The headlights down the highway into the distance remain exactly the same size

Here we see yet another example of how Bishop doesn't understand photography (see also his mad squeaking about the sun being a stage light).

Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 23, 2009, 04:30:05 PM

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Tom Bishop says glaring makes it bigger but the image as the sun moon move aren't glared much, certainly it would be biazarre glare that maintains the same size all the time lol crazy glare.

I've provided examples of how light can grow to maintain its size in the Wiki.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Magnification+of+the+Sun+at+Sunset

Scroll down to the headlight example. The headlights down the highway into the distance remain exactly the same size

Here we see yet another example of how Bishop doesn't understand photography (see also his mad squeaking about the sun being a stage light).

the link he keeps giving shows blurred cars in the distance, not giant magnified clear cars. Why can't we see this lol

Hey Tom here is a photo on the moon low on the horizon. You are caiming this is a glared imaged glaring so badly it is 4 times bigger than it should be?!? notice how clear the image is!!

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/pgunupudi/2775947557/

Tom... This is not a glared image. If you claim it is, you have discovered a newe law of physics and optics, glare than magnifies without any distorting. Congratulations.

Tom, I jsut figured out a way for you yourself to disprove your glare idea.

Take a photo of the moon low on the horizon. then retake it but reduce the apeture to reduce glare.

NOTICE THE SIZE OF THE MOON DOSEN'T THEN SHRINK.

Quote from: Sutekh on December 23, 2009, 04:33:05 PM

Your explainations are so strange

Truth is a strange concept to the brainwashed.

What an astute observation.  What does it feel like to build a wall of belief around yourself?

Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 23, 2009, 04:35:07 PM

Quote from: Sutekh on December 23, 2009, 04:33:05 PM

Your explainations are so strange

Truth is a strange concept to the brainwashed.

What an astute observation.  What does it feel like to build a wall of belief around yourself?

he has GOT to be a nasa spy spreading disinformation lol

Hey Tom here is a photo on the moon low on the horizon. You are caiming this is a glared imaged glaring so badly it is 4 times bigger than it should be?!? notice how clear the image is!!

Addressed in the Wiki:

Distinctness of the Sun

Q. Shouldn't the sun get blurrier if it is being magnified?

A. The sun actually does get a little fuzzier when it is at the horizon compared to overhead at noonday.

Q. But shouldn't the sun get 4x blurrier if it is increasing its diameter by 4x, for example?

A. No. You are assuming that the sun is being magnified in a similar method as a magnifying glass, where blurriness occurs as a ratio with distance. This is incorrect. The magnification of the sun exists as a projection. A projection of light is occurring upon the atmosphere between the sun and observer.

Tom, I jsut figured out a way for you yourself to disprove your glare idea.

Take a photo of the moon low on the horizon. then retake it but reduce the apeture to reduce glare.

NOTICE THE SIZE OF THE MOON DOSEN'T THEN SHRINK.

It's a projection on the atmosphere. It has nothing to do with the lens used.

Quote from: Sutekh on December 23, 2009, 04:55:27 PM

Tom, I jsut figured out a way for you yourself to disprove your glare idea.

Take a photo of the moon low on the horizon. then retake it but reduce the apeture to reduce glare.

NOTICE THE SIZE OF THE MOON DOSEN'T THEN SHRINK.

It's a projection on the atmosphere. It has nothing to do with the lens used.

Cite evidence please.  Or run away.  Whichever is easier.

Quote from: Sutekh on December 23, 2009, 04:55:27 PM

Tom, I jsut figured out a way for you yourself to disprove your glare idea.

Take a photo of the moon low on the horizon. then retake it but reduce the apeture to reduce glare.

NOTICE THE SIZE OF THE MOON DOSEN'T THEN SHRINK.

It's a projection on the atmosphere. It has nothing to do with the lens used.

but you said it was glare? it is not glare.

If it is a projection on the sky, the projection will have to grow as the moon moves to the horizon, to maintain the same angular size... but the people over the horizon (in austrailia, I'm in new zealand) Don't see a big giant sky projection!! they see the size same as for everyone else!

How can it be a projection in the sky that looks the same to all observors when some are closer to it?!?

Cite evidence please.  Or run away.  Whichever is easier.

Read the Wiki. There's a picture with car headlights which remain the same size into the distance.

but you said it was glare? it is not glare.

If it is a projection on the sky, the projection will have to grow as the moon moves to the horizon, to maintain the same angular size... but the people over the horizon (in austrailia, I'm in new zealand) Don't see a big giant sky projection!! they see the size same as for everyone else!

How can it be a projection in the sky that looks the same to all observors when some are closer to it?!?

The projection is observer specific between the observer and the source. In the car example if someone were down standing in front of the first car he would also see the headlights stretch into the distance remaining relatively the same size. If someone were standing on the side of the road he too would see a stretch of headlights remaining the same size into the distance.

The light is not "suspended in the air." The light which moves from the headlight of the car to the eye of the observer grows and spreads as it passes through the medium of the atmosphere.

Quote from: Rasta on December 23, 2009, 05:06:00 PM

Cite evidence please.  Or run away.  Whichever is easier.

Read the Wiki. There's a picture with car headlights which remain the same size into the distance.

Bob it's not glare and I can prove this to you right this second.

look at a glaring light, maybe a lightbulb in your house. Now reduce the apeture of observation: look at the light through a little hole (maybe make one with your fingers). You will observe the image of the light bulb clear as glare reduces, and notice the size of the bulb reduces a bit.

think about the glare of cars from your link. If you look at glaring lights of the cars that you think are the same sizes as the closer cars, picture yourself looking at them through that same little hole: again those cars lights will clear and reduce slightly.

Now here's the ibt that disproves your glare idea about the moon Bob.

Tongiht look at the moon when its low and yellow on the horizon. look at the moon thought the little hole in your fingers. Notice the moons angular size does not reduce to 4 odd tiems it size. Sorry bob, the moon isin't glaring out like you think it is!

Quote from: Rasta on December 23, 2009, 05:06:00 PM

Cite evidence please.  Or run away.  Whichever is easier.

Read the Wiki. There's a picture with car headlights which remain the same size into the distance.

Quote

but you said it was glare? it is not glare.

If it is a projection on the sky, the projection will have to grow as the moon moves to the horizon, to maintain the same angular size... but the people over the horizon (in austrailia, I'm in new zealand) Don't see a big giant sky projection!! they see the size same as for everyone else!

How can it be a projection in the sky that looks the same to all observors when some are closer to it?!?

The projection is observer specific between the observer and the source. In the car example if someone were down standing in front of the first car he would also see the headlights stretch into the distance remaining relatively the same size. If someone were standing on the side of the road he too would see a stretch of headlights remaining the same size into the distance.

The light is not "suspended in the air." The light which moves from the headlight of the car to the eye of the observer grows and spreads as it passes through the medium of the atmosphere.

Bob dude! If the moon is a projection, why does it have craters! Who is projecting this image, and why do they want us to think the moon is a dirty great ball of matetr with impact craters all over it!

look at a glaring light, maybe a lightbulb in your house. Now reduce the apeture of observation: look at the light through a little hole (maybe make one with your fingers). You will observe the image of the light bulb clear as glare reduces, and notice the size of the bulb reduces a bit.

You're thinking of lens flare. Lens flare is a manifestation of the camera/eye lens.

Bob dude! If the moon is a projection, why does it have craters!

I don't have a problem seeing the details of the projection from my home projection system.

Read the Wiki. There's a picture with car headlights which remain the same size into the distance.

This is your evidence that our perception of the sun is a projection on the atmosphere?  Can you explain in depth how it relates?

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look at a glaring light, maybe a lightbulb in your house. Now reduce the apeture of observation: look at the light through a little hole (maybe make one with your fingers). You will observe the image of the light bulb clear as glare reduces, and notice the size of the bulb reduces a bit.

You're thinking of lens flare. Lens flare is a manifestation of the camera/eye lens.

Quote

Bob dude! If the moon is a projection, why does it have craters!

I don't have a problem seeing the details of the projection from my home projection system.

Who has created this projection, designed to fool us into thinking there is a material moon up there? you know the thing neil armstrong walked on.

Do you have a theory? Can't be nasa, moon has been around for a long time, unless history and historians have faked all of history's accounts.

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look at a glaring light, maybe a lightbulb in your house. Now reduce the apeture of observation: look at the light through a little hole (maybe make one with your fingers). You will observe the image of the light bulb clear as glare reduces, and notice the size of the bulb reduces a bit.

You're thinking of lens flare. Lens flare is a manifestation of the camera/eye lens.

Bob, you need to read up on how photography works, because you are making yourself look very foolish with your massive misunderstandings of it. Your belief in that picture of the cars shows you don't know the slightest thing about photography. And that's all it shows.

Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 23, 2009, 05:19:20 PM

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look at a glaring light, maybe a lightbulb in your house. Now reduce the apeture of observation: look at the light through a little hole (maybe make one with your fingers). You will observe the image of the light bulb clear as glare reduces, and notice the size of the bulb reduces a bit.

You're thinking of lens flare. Lens flare is a manifestation of the camera/eye lens.

Bob, you need to read up on how photography works, because you are making yourself look very foolish with your massive misunderstandings of it. Your belief in that picture of the cars shows you don't know the slightest thing about photography. And that's all it shows.

If you look carefully at thar car photo, I'm pretty sure you can see clear evideence that 9 11 was faked lol

While you're still here Tom dude...

You still haven't explained why the perspective crushing to account for the lack of a north celestrial pole and missing constellations, to a southern observer, is not present in the sky. the star densities remain roughly constant to the horizon. The fact you can't explain this lack of your perspective effects, at what point does the thoguht penetrate that your ideas are wrong?

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Tom Bishop says glaring makes it bigger but the image as the sun moon move aren't glared much, certainly it would be biazarre glare that maintains the same size all the time lol crazy glare.

I've provided examples of how light can grow to maintain its size in the Wiki.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Magnification+of+the+Sun+at+Sunset

Scroll down to the headlight example. The headlights down the highway into the distance remain exactly the same size

Absolute, utter drivel!  I drive or ride cars quite often at night, and invariably the headlights and taillights of cars that I see through my window are smaller the farther away they are.  Everyone I know who has ever driven at night agrees with that observation.  If you claim to have observed otherwise, you are either a liar, or are too severely vision impaired to qualify for a valid driver's license!  The pictures you showed to support your point are either over-exposed or out of focus.

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Tom Bishop says glaring makes it bigger but the image as the sun moon move aren't glared much, certainly it would be biazarre glare that maintains the same size all the time lol crazy glare.

I've provided examples of how light can grow to maintain its size in the Wiki.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Magnification+of+the+Sun+at+Sunset

Scroll down to the headlight example. The headlights down the highway into the distance remain exactly the same size

The sun does not work like headlights.

The sun does not work like headlights.

Actually it does, the same laws of physics apply.

Quote from: Mookie89 on December 29, 2009, 08:04:43 PM

The sun does not work like headlights.

Actually it does, the same laws of physics apply.

I'm just using the same argument Tom has used on me a time or two.

Quote from: Mookie89 on December 29, 2009, 08:04:43 PM

The sun does not work like headlights.

Actually it does, the same laws of physics apply.

I didn't realize that nuclear fission occurred in headlights.

I wasn't aware fission occurred in the sun either.

I wasn't aware fission occurred in the sun either.

Good catch.