Some thoughts on the scale of the conspiracy.

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Some thoughts on the scale of the conspiracy.
« on: December 14, 2009, 08:37:06 AM »
I have been browsing this website for the past few weeks and I must say that everything presented here is fascinating. The idea that in this day and age there are people who still hold to the belief that the Earth is flat just floored me, although I suppose if one looks hard enough it is possible to find people who believe just about anything.

I remember when I was in the tenth grade I had an earth science teacher who we all called Mr. Waz. He had a sort of folksy, absent minded professor way about him, which is perhaps why he was one of the most popular teachers in the entire school. He always encouraged us to think outside the box and approach science from a position of brilliance, leaving our egos and biases aside, in order to formulate the most intelligent ideas and present them the best way we possibly could. In his room he had a map of the world hanging on the wall that was "flipped upside down". When one student protested, he challenged her to prove that north is "up", which she of course could not do.

I remember one day in particular he stood in front of the class and confidently proclaimed that Niagra Falls does not exist. We were then split into groups and told to come up with a rebuttal that could prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it does in fact exist. As we presented our ideas, we were suddenly overwhelmed by the difficulty of our task. Most students provided personal anecdotes about their experiences in Niagra Falls, which he said he refused to believe. One wise student printed a picture of Niagra Falls, which Mr Waz excused as being a photoshopped image. Others told him that he would need to go there himself and see it, which he refused to do on the grounds that it would be too difficult and expensive (sound familiar yet?). By the end of class, our efforts had been thoroughly frustrated and the point he was making was well established. Nothing can be proven to be true to individuals who close their minds to the reality of their surroundings, which begs the question "how do you prove to a person who is dead-set on believing the Earth is flat that it is actually round?"

Many, if not all of the challenges to FET on this website end up going in one of two directions: either the challengers begin to lose patience and start insulting the FE theorists for their unsubstantiated responses, or the FE theorists dismiss all evidence pointing to a round Earth as being part of a massive global conspiracy.

My point is simple. Even if you took Tom Bishop into a space ship and flew around the world, showing him Antarctica, the moon, and the stars in the heavens, he would find some reason to discredit the evidence presented before him (i.e. "we are clearly in a lab somewhere and this window shows nothing more than a computer projection"). To the flat earthers, conspiracies have no limit.

Now, I am not scientist, nor do I have any degree in a science field. I am, however, an undergraduate student of political science and history, so I am more interested in the societal implications of alternative ideas (lies). The flat earth model relies on an absurd amount of conspiring to discredit the dissenters, when little account is given to the fact that a conspiracy on the scale that these people are talking about would be impossible.

My question is this: of the thousands (perhaps millions) of modern airline pilots, astronauts, meteorologists, politicians, astronomers, Antarctic researchers, ham radio operators, satellite engineers, [added: neutrino physicists, GPS data calibrators], and people trained in celestial navigation, why have none come forward?
« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 12:32:58 PM by Canadark »
There is evidence for a NASA conspiracy. Please search.

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ERTW

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Re: Some thoughts on the scale of the conspiracy.
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2009, 10:04:53 AM »
I have been browsing this website for the past few weeks and I must say that everything presented here is fascinating. The idea that in this day and age there are people who still hold to the belief that the Earth is flat just floored me, although I suppose if one looks hard enough it is possible to find people who believe just about anything.

I remember when I was in the tenth grade I had an earth science teacher who we all called Mr. Waz. He had a sort of folksy, absent minded professor way about him, which is perhaps why he was one of the most popular teachers in the entire school. He always encouraged us to think outside the box and approach science from a position of brilliance, leaving our egos and biases aside, in order to formulate the most intelligent ideas and present them the best way we possibly could. In his room he had a map of the world hanging on the wall that was "flipped upside down". When one student protested, he challenged her to prove that north is "up", which she of course could not do.

I remember one day in particular he stood in front of the class and confidently proclaimed that Niagra Falls does not exist. We were then split into groups and told to come up with a rebuttal that could prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it does in fact exist. As we presented our ideas, we were suddenly overwhelmed by the difficulty of our task. Most students provided personal anecdotes about their experiences in Niagra Falls, which he said he refused to believe. One wise student printed a picture of Niagra Falls, which Mr Waz excused as being a photoshopped image. Others told him that he would need to go there himself and see it, which he refused to do on the grounds that it would be too difficult and expensive (sound familiar yet?). By the end of class, our efforts had been thoroughly frustrated and the point he was making was well established. Nothing can be proven to be true to individuals who close their minds to the reality of their surroundings, which begs the question "how do you prove to a person who is dead-set on believing the Earth is flat that it is actually round?"

Many, if not all of the challenges to FET on this website end up going in one of two directions: either the challengers begin to lose patience and start insulting the FE theorists for their unsubstantiated responses, or the FE theorists dismiss all evidence pointing to a round Earth as being part of a massive global conspiracy.

My point is simple. Even if you took Tom Bishop into a space ship and flew around the world, showing him Antarctica, the moon, and the stars in the heavens, he would find some reason to discredit the evidence presented before him (i.e. "we are clearly in a lab somewhere and this window shows nothing more than a computer projection"). To the flat earthers, conspiracies have no limit.

Now, I am not scientist, nor do I have any degree in a science field. I am, however, an undergraduate student of political science and history, so I am more interested in the societal implications of alternative ideas (lies). The flat earth model relies on an absurd amount of conspiring to discredit the dissenters, when little account is given to the fact that a conspiracy on the scale that these people are talking about would be impossible.

My question is this: of the thousands (perhaps millions) of modern airline pilots, astronauts, meteorologists, politicians, astronomers, Antarctic researchers, ham radio operators, satellite engineers, and people trained in celestial navigation, why have none come forward?

Oh Oh, don't forget neutrino physicists and GPS data calibrators. They clearly pulled the wool over our eyes.
Don't diss physics until you try it!

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Mookie89

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Re: Some thoughts on the scale of the conspiracy.
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2009, 10:09:30 AM »
Good post, but it will be ignored by all of the FE'ers.
Quote from: Tom Bishop
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Mykael

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Re: Some thoughts on the scale of the conspiracy.
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2009, 10:13:47 AM »
That's.... actually surprisingly well-thought out, especially for your first couple posts.

Come down to the lower 5 forums for a while, you might like it here.

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Gigamonsta

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Re: Some thoughts on the scale of the conspiracy.
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2009, 02:17:52 PM »
You are claiming that millions of people know about this!

Yet I am convinced that Flat Earth is the Flat-out truth!

The problem is that when you are looking at the antartica it seems to stretch on FOREVER! Just sheets of ICE! How do you kow that somewhere out there the ice wall does not exist? I believe it does. There are many lesser ice walls and I believe that the greater ice wall is out there somewhere. So since few people have ever been to Antarctica is is pretty easy to see how they could have hid it (plus fake images too!).

In regards to many of those people remember the economy is pretty bad. Maybe the conspiracy providing some money will convince them to not come forward? Or maybe the conspiracy theorists would not want them to reveal such information because of the global panic it would cause if the earth was revealed to be flat?! Think aobuit it! if it was revealed of the huge conspiracy on earth then this would be bad cause gov'ts would collapse and revolutions would begin! all our astronomical science would prove to be wrong! therefore it ihnk its quite plausible that hte conspiracy would be kept!


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Mookie89

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Re: Some thoughts on the scale of the conspiracy.
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2009, 03:25:16 PM »
You are claiming that millions of people know about this!

Yet I am convinced that Flat Earth is the Flat-out truth!

The problem is that when you are looking at the antartica it seems to stretch on FOREVER! Just sheets of ICE! How do you kow that somewhere out there the ice wall does not exist? I believe it does. There are many lesser ice walls and I believe that the greater ice wall is out there somewhere. So since few people have ever been to Antarctica is is pretty easy to see how they could have hid it (plus fake images too!).

In regards to many of those people remember the economy is pretty bad. Maybe the conspiracy providing some money will convince them to not come forward? Or maybe the conspiracy theorists would not want them to reveal such information because of the global panic it would cause if the earth was revealed to be flat?! Think aobuit it! if it was revealed of the huge conspiracy on earth then this would be bad cause gov'ts would collapse and revolutions would begin! all our astronomical science would prove to be wrong! therefore it ihnk its quite plausible that hte conspiracy would be kept!



Just because it seems to stretch on forever does not mean it does. You are making the assumption that it does stretch on forever without ever even being there.

Don't you guys take pride in basing your theories on a first-hand basis? How can you assume this as being true if you haven't experienced it on a first-hand basis?
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Ugh ugh! Ugh nug nug ugh!

It's fourteen French social dances past the hour.

*

Optimus Prime

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Re: Some thoughts on the scale of the conspiracy.
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2009, 03:26:01 PM »
My question is this: of the thousands (perhaps millions) of modern airline pilots, astronauts, meteorologists, politicians, astronomers, Antarctic researchers, ham radio operators, satellite engineers, [added: neutrino physicists, GPS data calibrators], and people trained in celestial navigation, why have none come forward?

First of all greetings, and very well said. Also - I sure wish I would have had your teacher growing up - there need to be a lot more like him.

Anyway in answer to your question there are a few options with a few holes (I'm a Ham radio operator if that gives you a clue)...

The main thing you are not taking into account is that admittedly by anyone's standards is that there are a finite number of entities that control the vast majority of technologies. This includes Navigation, mapping, aeronautics, you name it. So in essence - other than the "amateurs" which do not count - you don't have to fool the millions - you only have to allow them to see what you 'want them to see' and they will believe it to be true. Combine that with ensuring our current belief systems are keptin tact within the school systems and you are set.

So as long as a Pilot believes what his equipment tells him, follows his flight path, and he lands back where he should - then he must have traveled that course right?

Now - do I think this is true? No. Do I think it is plausible? Highly unlikely. Do I think it is impossible? I cannot say that as I have seen things that just blow my mind... so I can't say a world-scale conspiracy is absolutely impossible.

Take care,
- Optimus
Dyslexics are teople poo!

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Gigamonsta

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Re: Some thoughts on the scale of the conspiracy.
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2009, 03:29:14 PM »
You are claiming that millions of people know about this!

Yet I am convinced that Flat Earth is the Flat-out truth!

The problem is that when you are looking at the antartica it seems to stretch on FOREVER! Just sheets of ICE! How do you kow that somewhere out there the ice wall does not exist? I believe it does. There are many lesser ice walls and I believe that the greater ice wall is out there somewhere. So since few people have ever been to Antarctica is is pretty easy to see how they could have hid it (plus fake images too!).

In regards to many of those people remember the economy is pretty bad. Maybe the conspiracy providing some money will convince them to not come forward? Or maybe the conspiracy theorists would not want them to reveal such information because of the global panic it would cause if the earth was revealed to be flat?! Think aobuit it! if it was revealed of the huge conspiracy on earth then this would be bad cause gov'ts would collapse and revolutions would begin! all our astronomical science would prove to be wrong! therefore it ihnk its quite plausible that hte conspiracy would be kept!



Just because it seems to stretch on forever does not mean it does. You are making the assumption that it does stretch on forever without ever even being there.

Don't you guys take pride in basing your theories on a first-hand basis? How can you assume this as being true if you haven't experienced it on a first-hand basis?

Im not sure if it stretches on forever. that is not wat i meant. but it looks like it does and no one ever explored antarctica fully so therefore I do belive that somewhere amongst the frozen tundra is the ice wall.

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Mookie89

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Re: Some thoughts on the scale of the conspiracy.
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2009, 03:35:33 PM »
You are claiming that millions of people know about this!

Yet I am convinced that Flat Earth is the Flat-out truth!

The problem is that when you are looking at the antartica it seems to stretch on FOREVER! Just sheets of ICE! How do you kow that somewhere out there the ice wall does not exist? I believe it does. There are many lesser ice walls and I believe that the greater ice wall is out there somewhere. So since few people have ever been to Antarctica is is pretty easy to see how they could have hid it (plus fake images too!).

In regards to many of those people remember the economy is pretty bad. Maybe the conspiracy providing some money will convince them to not come forward? Or maybe the conspiracy theorists would not want them to reveal such information because of the global panic it would cause if the earth was revealed to be flat?! Think aobuit it! if it was revealed of the huge conspiracy on earth then this would be bad cause gov'ts would collapse and revolutions would begin! all our astronomical science would prove to be wrong! therefore it ihnk its quite plausible that hte conspiracy would be kept!



Just because it seems to stretch on forever does not mean it does. You are making the assumption that it does stretch on forever without ever even being there.

Don't you guys take pride in basing your theories on a first-hand basis? How can you assume this as being true if you haven't experienced it on a first-hand basis?

Im not sure if it stretches on forever. that is not wat i meant. but it looks like it does and no one ever explored antarctica fully so therefore I do belive that somewhere amongst the frozen tundra is the ice wall.

Why though? Have you ever seen evidence that proves there is an ice wall? If so, please post the evidence. If not, then I can't fathom how you can believe in it.
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Ugh ugh! Ugh nug nug ugh!

It's fourteen French social dances past the hour.

?

Gigamonsta

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Re: Some thoughts on the scale of the conspiracy.
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2009, 03:40:19 PM »
You are claiming that millions of people know about this!

Yet I am convinced that Flat Earth is the Flat-out truth!

The problem is that when you are looking at the antartica it seems to stretch on FOREVER! Just sheets of ICE! How do you kow that somewhere out there the ice wall does not exist? I believe it does. There are many lesser ice walls and I believe that the greater ice wall is out there somewhere. So since few people have ever been to Antarctica is is pretty easy to see how they could have hid it (plus fake images too!).

In regards to many of those people remember the economy is pretty bad. Maybe the conspiracy providing some money will convince them to not come forward? Or maybe the conspiracy theorists would not want them to reveal such information because of the global panic it would cause if the earth was revealed to be flat?! Think aobuit it! if it was revealed of the huge conspiracy on earth then this would be bad cause gov'ts would collapse and revolutions would begin! all our astronomical science would prove to be wrong! therefore it ihnk its quite plausible that hte conspiracy would be kept!



Just because it seems to stretch on forever does not mean it does. You are making the assumption that it does stretch on forever without ever even being there.

Don't you guys take pride in basing your theories on a first-hand basis? How can you assume this as being true if you haven't experienced it on a first-hand basis?

Im not sure if it stretches on forever. that is not wat i meant. but it looks like it does and no one ever explored antarctica fully so therefore I do belive that somewhere amongst the frozen tundra is the ice wall.

Why though? Have you ever seen evidence that proves there is an ice wall? If so, please post the evidence. If not, then I can't fathom how you can believe in it.

Well there is no other way that the water doesn't go pouring over the earths surface!!! If your in a boat and then you go sailing of the edge of the earth maybe then youd see. but that doesn't happen bcause something must be blocking the water. thus an ice wall of sorts seems to be the most logical. But I cannot post evidence of it bcause:

a) i cant go to the icewall
b) all artic bases are controlled by gov't
c) even if i had enough money i probbably wouldnt survive going there
d) all internet pictures of antarctica are controlled by gov't cuz the gov't controls the internet.

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Mookie89

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Re: Some thoughts on the scale of the conspiracy.
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2009, 03:44:23 PM »
You are claiming that millions of people know about this!

Yet I am convinced that Flat Earth is the Flat-out truth!

The problem is that when you are looking at the antartica it seems to stretch on FOREVER! Just sheets of ICE! How do you kow that somewhere out there the ice wall does not exist? I believe it does. There are many lesser ice walls and I believe that the greater ice wall is out there somewhere. So since few people have ever been to Antarctica is is pretty easy to see how they could have hid it (plus fake images too!).

In regards to many of those people remember the economy is pretty bad. Maybe the conspiracy providing some money will convince them to not come forward? Or maybe the conspiracy theorists would not want them to reveal such information because of the global panic it would cause if the earth was revealed to be flat?! Think aobuit it! if it was revealed of the huge conspiracy on earth then this would be bad cause gov'ts would collapse and revolutions would begin! all our astronomical science would prove to be wrong! therefore it ihnk its quite plausible that hte conspiracy would be kept!



Just because it seems to stretch on forever does not mean it does. You are making the assumption that it does stretch on forever without ever even being there.

Don't you guys take pride in basing your theories on a first-hand basis? How can you assume this as being true if you haven't experienced it on a first-hand basis?

Im not sure if it stretches on forever. that is not wat i meant. but it looks like it does and no one ever explored antarctica fully so therefore I do belive that somewhere amongst the frozen tundra is the ice wall.

Why though? Have you ever seen evidence that proves there is an ice wall? If so, please post the evidence. If not, then I can't fathom how you can believe in it.

Well there is no other way that the water doesn't go pouring over the earths surface!!! If your in a boat and then you go sailing of the edge of the earth maybe then youd see. but that doesn't happen bcause something must be blocking the water. thus an ice wall of sorts seems to be the most logical. But I cannot post evidence of it bcause:

a) i cant go to the icewall
b) all artic bases are controlled by gov't
c) even if i had enough money i probbably wouldnt survive going there
d) all internet pictures of antarctica are controlled by gov't cuz the gov't controls the internet.


But that is assuming that the Earth is without a doubt flat. That's like calling a red crayon blue, just because it said so. It's called circular logic.

"Since the Earth is flat, there must be an ice wall, and since there must be an ice wall, the Earth must be flat" is the premise of your argument.
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Ugh ugh! Ugh nug nug ugh!

It's fourteen French social dances past the hour.

Re: Some thoughts on the scale of the conspiracy.
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2009, 05:15:11 PM »

Well there is no other way that the water doesn't go pouring over the earths surface!!! If your in a boat and then you go sailing of the edge of the earth maybe then youd see. but that doesn't happen bcause something must be blocking the water. thus an ice wall of sorts seems to be the most logical. But I cannot post evidence of it bcause:

a) i cant go to the icewall
b) all artic bases are controlled by gov't
c) even if i had enough money i probbably wouldnt survive going there
d) all internet pictures of antarctica are controlled by gov't cuz the gov't controls the internet.

This attitude is precisely what I was talking about in the original post.
There is evidence for a NASA conspiracy. Please search.

Re: Some thoughts on the scale of the conspiracy.
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2009, 05:25:06 PM »
My question is this: of the thousands (perhaps millions) of modern airline pilots, astronauts, meteorologists, politicians, astronomers, Antarctic researchers, ham radio operators, satellite engineers, [added: neutrino physicists, GPS data calibrators], and people trained in celestial navigation, why have none come forward?

First of all greetings, and very well said. Also - I sure wish I would have had your teacher growing up - there need to be a lot more like him.

Anyway in answer to your question there are a few options with a few holes (I'm a Ham radio operator if that gives you a clue)...

The main thing you are not taking into account is that admittedly by anyone's standards is that there are a finite number of entities that control the vast majority of technologies. This includes Navigation, mapping, aeronautics, you name it. So in essence - other than the "amateurs" which do not count - you don't have to fool the millions - you only have to allow them to see what you 'want them to see' and they will believe it to be true. Combine that with ensuring our current belief systems are keptin tact within the school systems and you are set.

So as long as a Pilot believes what his equipment tells him, follows his flight path, and he lands back where he should - then he must have traveled that course right?

Now - do I think this is true? No. Do I think it is plausible? Highly unlikely. Do I think it is impossible? I cannot say that as I have seen things that just blow my mind... so I can't say a world-scale conspiracy is absolutely impossible.

Take care,
- Optimus

Thank you for your candor. This is an interesting idea (although I didn't consider it too long); that maybe people like airline pilots aren't in on the conspiracy but are just following orders.

But geographically, flying over a flat earth versus a round earth presents huge differences. If the theory you touched on were actually true, then any pilot who has ever had to ditch early due to mechanical issues would find him or herself in a completely different location than where the aircraft is supposed to be. Thus I find it impossible that pilots would not be in on this hypothetical conspiracy, to say nothing of the passengers and crew on board. For example, if a plane flying from Santiago de Chile to Melbourne touched down early, it would most likely be in the northern hemisphere since the shortest distance on a flat earth map takes you close to the Arctic circle. The conspiracy just got even more complex.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 05:27:48 PM by Canadark »
There is evidence for a NASA conspiracy. Please search.

Re: Some thoughts on the scale of the conspiracy.
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2009, 12:12:08 PM »
Maybe God is the head of the conspiracy?  Or some similar immensely powerful supernatural force?  "Dark City" anyone?

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Sutekh

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Re: Some thoughts on the scale of the conspiracy.
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2009, 04:43:01 PM »
Maybe God is the head of the conspiracy?  Or some similar immensely powerful supernatural force?  "Dark City" anyone?

It would have to be god or aliens, after all, all physical evidence matches the round theory. and who else could make an anti moon that can never be detected, and light that bends just in the right way to fool us.

Re: Some thoughts on the scale of the conspiracy.
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2009, 05:12:10 PM »
My point is simple. Even if you took Tom Bishop into a space ship and flew around the world, showing him Antarctica, the moon, and the stars in the heavens, he would find some reason to discredit the evidence presented before him (i.e. "we are clearly in a lab somewhere and this window shows nothing more than a computer projection"). To the flat earthers, conspiracies have no limit.
Until you took him out on a space walk.

Re: Some thoughts on the scale of the conspiracy.
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2009, 05:14:31 PM »
^^ There was a guy, don't know if he's still here, who had these theories about a satanic conspiracy, that all the heads of the airlines where secret satanists and so on.

^ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Cadets  No space walk, but hey.

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Sutekh

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Re: Some thoughts on the scale of the conspiracy.
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2009, 05:17:55 PM »
My point is simple. Even if you took Tom Bishop into a space ship and flew around the world, showing him Antarctica, the moon, and the stars in the heavens, he would find some reason to discredit the evidence presented before him (i.e. "we are clearly in a lab somewhere and this window shows nothing more than a computer projection"). To the flat earthers, conspiracies have no limit.
Until you took him out on a space walk.

He would say he was drugged and hyponotised.

The flat earth idea is a conspiray theory, people who beleive in these things are deluded and a delusion is impossible to remove with logic or evidence it may stay forever. likewise the 911 people.

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parsec

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Re: Some thoughts on the scale of the conspiracy.
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2009, 05:24:53 PM »
My question is this: of the thousands (perhaps millions) of modern airline pilots, astronauts, meteorologists, politicians, astronomers, Antarctic researchers, ham radio operators, satellite engineers, [added: neutrino physicists, GPS data calibrators], and people trained in celestial navigation, why have none come forward?

Because, being in any of these fields, means that at some point of their education, they were made to believe the idea of a RE. Any public opposition to this idea means they would not pass that educational stage and be dismissed as crackpots.

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ERTW

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Re: Some thoughts on the scale of the conspiracy.
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2009, 05:55:11 PM »
My question is this: of the thousands (perhaps millions) of modern airline pilots, astronauts, meteorologists, politicians, astronomers, Antarctic researchers, ham radio operators, satellite engineers, [added: neutrino physicists, GPS data calibrators], and people trained in celestial navigation, why have none come forward?

Because, being in any of these fields, means that at some point of their education, they were made to believe the idea of a RE. Any public opposition to this idea means they would not pass that educational stage and be dismissed as crackpots.
Nobody ever asked me if I thought the Earth was flat during my education. I freely debate all sorts of wacky ideas with professors and students (including religion), and this has never hampered my ability to proceed with my engineering degree.
Don't diss physics until you try it!

*

parsec

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Re: Some thoughts on the scale of the conspiracy.
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2009, 05:56:03 PM »
Did you take Physics I?

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markjo

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Re: Some thoughts on the scale of the conspiracy.
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2009, 06:24:10 PM »
^^ There was a guy, don't know if he's still here, who had these theories about a satanic conspiracy, that all the heads of the airlines where secret satanists and so on.

^ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Cadets  No space walk, but hey.

That was Dogplatter (now known as James).  It seems that he only visits only occasionally now.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Sutekh

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Re: Some thoughts on the scale of the conspiracy.
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2009, 08:24:27 PM »
My question is this: of the thousands (perhaps millions) of modern airline pilots, astronauts, meteorologists, politicians, astronomers, Antarctic researchers, ham radio operators, satellite engineers, [added: neutrino physicists, GPS data calibrators], and people trained in celestial navigation, why have none come forward?

Because, being in any of these fields, means that at some point of their education, they were made to believe the idea of a RE. Any public opposition to this idea means they would not pass that educational stage and be dismissed as crackpots.

really? I studied physics and astronomy at university, the model was earth is a planet etc, and every phenomena had therefore, a really easy and logical explanation. e..g the phase of the moon, not requiring magic anti moons that cant be detected, or ice walls that can't be seen, or bending light which is not seen in nature (unless you have super massive amounts of mass), or any of the other string of stuff including conspiracies that neevr ever name a single involved person EVER. No magic small sun and moon that are tiny yet always look the same size to all observers, no magic acceleration that goes forever.

noone tried a flat earth model, not because they'd get in trouble, but because they'd have to be a bit dim,  and not many dim people join physics courses. It would be like a holocaust denier in a history class or a creationist in a biology class. those people don't got for uni study.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2009, 08:36:38 PM by Sutekh »

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Sutekh

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Re: Some thoughts on the scale of the conspiracy.
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2009, 08:32:16 PM »
p.s. Why are the conspiracy theorists on this site so boring? not one person named, in the conspiracy that involves masses of people. Can't ya at least claim 9 11 was designed to kill some guy who was about to reveal the proof nasa is lying? or maybe they blew up the shuttles deliberatly? And surely JFK was about to spill the beans, before he was shot by nasa on the grassy knoll? only nassa has the technology to...

And do you guys think nasa follows you around waiting to kill you? Is that nasa now, above you pretending to be your neighbours?

And care to explain why they don't shut down this site? they could any time and claim terrorisst were using it as a front. A real conspiracy that's not simply in your imagination will do that.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2009, 08:39:26 PM by Sutekh »

Re: Some thoughts on the scale of the conspiracy.
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2009, 11:00:46 PM »
^^ There was a guy, don't know if he's still here, who had these theories about a satanic conspiracy, that all the heads of the airlines where secret satanists and so on.

^ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Cadets  No space walk, but hey.

That was Dogplatter (now known as James).  It seems that he only visits only occasionally now.

He was also the guy who thought the dinosaurs sailed boats to Antarctica?  People would try to argue against that and get their buts kicked.

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ERTW

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Re: Some thoughts on the scale of the conspiracy.
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2009, 12:52:08 AM »
Did you take Physics I?
Yes I took Physics I. We did a lot of kinematics, energy balances, wave propagation, optics, Newtonian Gravitation, Gauss's Law for electric fields, basic electric circuits, and other things that I forget (was several years ago). We solved some basic problems in Newtonian gravity, like finding zero gravity force locations between the Earth and Moon. These examples were good physics practice, but the prof never made the class stand up and pledge allegiance to RET. On the final exam you had to pick seven out of ten questions to answer, so you could completely ignore Newtonian gravity and get 100% (of course you would still need to use gravity in kinematics).
Don't diss physics until you try it!

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parsec

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Re: Some thoughts on the scale of the conspiracy.
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2009, 11:27:30 AM »
Did you take Geography in elementary school?

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Gigamonsta

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Re: Some thoughts on the scale of the conspiracy.
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2009, 11:31:41 AM »
My question is this: of the thousands (perhaps millions) of modern airline pilots, astronauts, meteorologists, politicians, astronomers, Antarctic researchers, ham radio operators, satellite engineers, [added: neutrino physicists, GPS data calibrators], and people trained in celestial navigation, why have none come forward?

Because, being in any of these fields, means that at some point of their education, they were made to believe the idea of a RE. Any public opposition to this idea means they would not pass that educational stage and be dismissed as crackpots.

really? I studied physics and astronomy at university, the model was earth is a planet etc, and every phenomena had therefore, a really easy and logical explanation. e..g the phase of the moon, not requiring magic anti moons that cant be detected, or ice walls that can't be seen, or bending light which is not seen in nature (unless you have super massive amounts of mass), or any of the other string of stuff including conspiracies that neevr ever name a single involved person EVER. No magic small sun and moon that are tiny yet always look the same size to all observers, no magic acceleration that goes forever.

noone tried a flat earth model, not because they'd get in trouble, but because they'd have to be a bit dim,  and not many dim people join physics courses. It would be like a holocaust denier in a history class or a creationist in a biology class. those people don't got for uni study.

Well those of us in zetetics don't want to go for your greek university stuff where we are brainwashd to believe. Read Tom Bishop's university thread and your eyes will be opened very wide.

Re: Some thoughts on the scale of the conspiracy.
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2009, 10:03:14 PM »
greek university stuff? I'm curious as to which parts of physics you believe in and don't believe in, and why.