satellites

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Mookie89

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Re: satellites
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2009, 01:20:02 PM »
Like Stalin knowing we had "the bomb" before we told him"?  

Everyone knew we were working on "the bomb". Einstein wrote a public letter to the president recommending that he do so.

The principles of "the bomb" were out in open scientific circles long before the Manhatten Project. The Nazis and Soviets also strived for "the bomb". It was just a matter of who could get there fast enough.

So you agree that "the bomb" exists? I'm glad we cleared that up Tom.
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Re: satellites
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2009, 01:36:08 PM »
Tom: evidence that it was faked?

Unless you want to simply say something is true without any evidence.

I've already provided enough evidence that Vandebergh is a shill who works for NASA.

NASA puts up his images on their website, which means that he is associated with them and receiving money at the very least.

Also, Vandebergh says in the OP:

    "According to data from the helmet cam, and calculated from the point of sunset in the video and during the pass, timing and location indicated the spacewalker as Joe Acaba working most earth-faced during these seconds of recordings."

Yeah right. As if an "amateur" had timestamps from the helmet cam. NASA doesn't release any of that to the public.

NASA actually releases very little data from its alleged spacewalks and space missions. The sole and only data they release to the public is the footage here and there which we see on TV.
So you have no evidence that it was faked?  Okay.

Re: satellites
« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2009, 06:20:52 PM »
Tom, will you concede that Jupiter is not stationary?
There is evidence for a NASA conspiracy. Please search.

Re: satellites
« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2009, 09:09:52 PM »
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The International Space Station travels in orbit around Earth at a speed of 17,500 miles per hour (that's about 5 miles per second!). This means that the Space Station orbits Earth (and sees a sunrise) once every 92 minutes!

It is possible to have a high tech telescope shift it's position accordingly, based on how fast an object in space is moving and how far away it is. This will allow a fix onto the object, which explains why the object we see in the images are blurred.

But this would not be done by an amateur.

Re: satellites
« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2009, 03:05:27 AM »
I don't see any "helmet cam footage with timestamps" in any of those links.

...

No helmet cam timestamps there, either.

Ummm. No one said there were helmet cam timestamps.

If you set out to show that something no one said existed doesn't exist, then bravo, have some failpie.

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Tristan

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Re: satellites
« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2009, 03:52:50 AM »
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Wrong. NASA does not hire photographers.
http://nasajobs.nasa.gov/jobs/occupations.htm
Actually, they do.
Not quite Tom. NASA does occasionally hire photographers to take publicity photos of their equipment and offices as well as portraits and the like, but they don't hire Astronomy Photographers. Think about it - they own the ISS and have regular video feeds from cameras all over the thing. Why pay someone money for a blurry photo he took with his telescope in his back yard?

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Wrong Again. NASA will link to images, but people with linked media only get credited, not payed.
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/imagepolicy/
http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/policies.html
NASA didn't link to his image. They hosted, displayed, and featured it on their website.
Well, appart from the fact that there's no practical difference between 'linking' and 'hosting, displaying and featuring' (both are just a picture and some text on a website) the point was that NASA don't pay people for doing it.

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Yeah right. As if an "amateur" had timestamps from the helmet cam. NASA doesn't release any of that to the public.
Wrong also.
http://www.nasa.gov/news/media/info/index.html
http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/208194main_News%20Media%20Access%20Policy%20_Final%20PM%20and%20DS_.pdf
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/shuttle/shuttlemissions/sts119/news/index.html
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/shuttle/shuttlemissions/sts119/news/119_status_search_agent_archive_1.html
I don't see any "helmet cam footage with timestamps" in any of those links.

Again, big picture. Helmet cam footage with timestamps is probably not available now because it's uglier than the non-stamped version. But the statement that someone could not obtain access to such information is demonstrably wrong. Between Media access passes to Mission control, live updates and streaming feeds and post mission reports with details logged to the second, getting accurate times of mission activity is not restricted.

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NASA actually releases very little data from its alleged spacewalks and space missions. The sole and only data they release to the public is the footage here and there which we see on TV.
Guess what... Wrong.
http://images.spaceref.com/news/2006/151959main_fd07_ex_pkg.pdf
[...]
of that is actually incredibly, incredibly, little data compared to the many gigabytes of mission and sensor data they claim to be receiving from the ISS every day.

Well, not everything is available from the website, but this is more due to the impracticalities of uploading many gigabytes of data every day. However, just because it's not available for download doesn't mean you can't get it. You can actually email them and ask them for anything that isn't available on the website - http://www.nasa.gov/news/media/contacts/index.html.

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Also, many of those flight-check PDFs you posted are pretty much just copied and pasted for every shuttle mission.
Some information is duplicated as some mission details are the same. But that's got nothing to do with whether or not the information is available.

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You're also linking to things such as the "boeing note pad," which is just a rectangular information pamphlet for a waiting room somewhere. If you count that as "mission data" you are either ignorant of the particulars involved, or you're hoping to pass off the illegitimate as legit.
I am neither ignorant, nor unaware. The Boeing Note Pad is the notebook of the CNN correspondent at Boeing covering the Launch. This was not meant to be an example of mission information NASA had released as such, simply to illustrate that large amounts of data are available that NASA doesn't restrict access to.

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Also, the very first link is the mission report from the specific EVA (spacewalk) that was referenced in the OP.
No helmet cam timestamps there, either.

I wasn't posting it for that reason. It was in response to your comment, claiming that:
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NASA actually releases very little data from its alleged spacewalks and space missions. The sole and only data they release to the public is the footage here and there which we see on TV.
which I think I've clearly proven is not the case.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 04:25:05 AM by Tristan »
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Re: satellites
« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2009, 04:10:36 AM »
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Like Stalin knowing we had "the bomb" before we told him"?  

Everyone knew we were working on "the bomb". Einstein wrote a public letter to the president recommending that he do so.

The principles of "the bomb" were out in open scientific circles long before the Manhatten Project. The Nazis and Soviets also strived for "the bomb". It was just a matter of who could get the special materials fast enough.

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Like the Germans knowing we we tunneled under the Berlin Wall to tap into a communication line, before one shovel hit the ground?

How did the Germans know that we tunneled into the ground before we tunneled into the ground? ???

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Or, like the Chinese stealing our secrets for W88?

I'm not saying that espionage doesn't happen. With something like the W88 it's easy for word to get out because these small classified research teams for nuclear weapons were rather small and everyone working on the project could see the big picture and generally knew how everything operated. The need-to-know compartment for such a small and simple nuclear device by necessity needs to include the entire staff.

However you'd never see the plans for the B2 get out in the open, as the operations for such compartments are very large and compartmentalized. One man can be working on the special radar while another works on the special radar paint, probably located at far off different facilities. Neither knowing what the other is doing, forbidden by security access. Even if the radar and paint guys both have Top Secret Access, information is still distributed on a need to know basis.

Knowing we were working on the atomic bomb and having knowledge of a successful test and eventual recreation and detonation of almost an exact duplicate device are two different things.

The Germans knew of the plan to tunnel under the Berlin Wall to tap into communication lines prior to the start of the project.

Access granted and access taken are two different things.  How the information was kept would depend on who had physical access to what.

I'm glad we've established that the military, and NASA by corollary, would not be flawless at keeping secrets.
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Tristan

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Re: satellites
« Reply #37 on: December 16, 2009, 04:31:04 AM »
Most people can agree that the military doesn't have a problem with keeping military secrets, secret.

But this isn't a "secret", Tom. It's a conspiracy.

A secret is just a piece of information. All you have to do to keep it secret is not tell anyone.

A conspiracy involves actions, events and physical evidence which are far harder to control. If it were as simple as "Psst... the earth is flat. Don't tell anyone" it'd be a whole different ball game. But it's far beyond that point.
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Thermal Detonator

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Re: satellites
« Reply #38 on: December 16, 2009, 07:16:47 AM »
Normally I tend to keep out of most conspiracy debate, because there's so many more logical ways to knife flat earth to death, but for fun's sake I had this idea.
Say for example I'm one of the NASA "photoshoppers" or someone who is involved in faking evidence of spaceflight. The conspiracy requires these people to exist, and there would have to be quite a few of them. Assuming my pay comes from the NASA budget, I'm not going to be earning megabucks, but a resonable amount.
Since the reason given for maintaining the conspiracy is always "money", then following that logic, people in on it will do whatever gets them the most cash. It is almost a certainty that I could get more money by blowing the lid on the conspiracy to the press than I would be being paid. This could be done either anonymously or even out in the open, in which case it becomes even harder for the conspirators to take action against me or my family because the world will be watching.
Gayer doesn't live in an atmosphere of vaporised mustard like you appear to, based on your latest photo.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: satellites
« Reply #39 on: December 16, 2009, 10:37:45 AM »
Tom, will you concede that Jupiter is not stationary?

I didn't say that it was. It just moves very slowly. Slowly enough that it's not terribly hard to capture with a telescope.

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Ummm. No one said there were helmet cam timestamps.

If you set out to show that something no one said existed doesn't exist, then bravo, have some failpie.

The amateur photographer in the OP said that he compared the helmet cam time stamps to pinpoint the astronaut in the picture (doesn't really even look like an astronaut if you ask me).

So where are the helmet cam time stamps?
« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 10:47:08 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Tom Bishop

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Re: satellites
« Reply #40 on: December 16, 2009, 10:45:07 AM »
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Not quite Tom. NASA does occasionally hire photographers to take publicity photos of their equipment and offices as well as portraits and the like, but they don't hire Astronomy Photographers. Think about it - they own the ISS and have regular video feeds from cameras all over the thing. Why pay someone money for a blurry photo he took with his telescope in his back yard?

It's clear why NASA would post such things on its website. The blurry photo supposedly shows everyone that they're spending our trillions of dollars on what they say they're spending it on.

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Well, appart from the fact that there's no practical difference between 'linking' and 'hosting

Actually, there is. If a news paper or government agency features and displays an image on their website for publicity purposes, it's usually granted that they've paid the author.

Which means that the photographer is getting paid by, and is affiliated with, NASA at the very least.

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Again, big picture. Helmet cam footage with timestamps is probably not available now because it's uglier than the non-stamped version.

So how did this amateur space photographer get them for comparison then, if they're not being released?

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But the statement that someone could not obtain access to such information is demonstrably wrong. Between Media access passes to Mission control, live updates and streaming feeds and post mission reports with details logged to the second, getting accurate times of mission activity is not restricted.

I didn't say that it was restricted. They just show us incredibly little data from the missions of which they claim to collect.

They did the same thing with Apollo. There are supposed to be two metric tons of sensor and telemetry tapes, yet none of it has been released to the public despite serious requests and Freedom of Information Act demands filed.

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Well, not everything is available from the website

Clearly.

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I am neither ignorant, nor unaware. The Boeing Note Pad is the notebook of the CNN correspondent at Boeing covering the Launch. This was not meant to be an example of mission information NASA had released as such, simply to illustrate that large amounts of data are available that NASA doesn't restrict access to.

You call a waiting room informational packet a demonstration of information NASA does not restrict access to?  ::)

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I wasn't posting it for that reason. It was in response to your comment, claiming that:
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NASA actually releases very little data from its alleged spacewalks and space missions. The sole and only data they release to the public is the footage here and there which we see on TV.
which I think I've clearly proven is not the case.

Instead of posting irrelevant material, how about posting the basics.

Start with helmet cam time stamps which Vandebergh claims to have used for his shots.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 11:17:36 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Tom Bishop

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Re: satellites
« Reply #41 on: December 16, 2009, 10:50:26 AM »
It is almost a certainty that I could get more money by blowing the lid on the conspiracy to the press than I would be being paid. This could be done either anonymously or even out in the open, in which case it becomes even harder for the conspirators to take action against me or my family because the world will be watching.

NASA has assassinated people who have spoken out against them in the public before. Do a search on these forums for "Thomas Baron".

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SupahLovah

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Re: satellites
« Reply #42 on: December 16, 2009, 10:53:55 AM »
I see no quote saying that Vendebergh claims he had the helmet time stamps.

NASA has the images, NASA has the time stamps, and NASA wrote/is hosting the story.
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Don B

Re: satellites
« Reply #43 on: December 16, 2009, 10:57:55 AM »
It is almost a certainty that I could get more money by blowing the lid on the conspiracy to the press than I would be being paid. This could be done either anonymously or even out in the open, in which case it becomes even harder for the conspirators to take action against me or my family because the world will be watching.

NASA has assassinated people who have spoken out against them in the public before. Do a search on these forums for "Thomas Baron".

How about you cite a credible source outside of these forums.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: satellites
« Reply #44 on: December 16, 2009, 11:02:09 AM »
I see no quote saying that Vendebergh claims he had the helmet time stamps.

NASA has the images, NASA has the time stamps, and NASA wrote/is hosting the story.

It says right on Vandebergh's picture in the OP:

    "According to data from the helmet cam, and calculated from the point of sunset in the video and during the pass, timing and location indicated the spacewalker as Joe Acaba working most earth-faced during these seconds of recordings."

Vandebergh is credited as the creator of that image.

Re: satellites
« Reply #45 on: December 16, 2009, 12:51:26 PM »
Tom, will you concede that Jupiter is not stationary?

I didn't say that it was. It just moves very slowly. Slowly enough that it's not terribly hard to capture with a telescope.


But this only makes sense if Jupiter is roughly the same distance away from the Earth as the ISS...

Oh I see where this is going.
There is evidence for a NASA conspiracy. Please search.

Re: satellites
« Reply #46 on: December 16, 2009, 02:20:31 PM »
It says right on Vandebergh's picture in the OP:

    "According to data from the helmet cam, and calculated from the point of sunset in the video and during the pass, timing and location indicated the spacewalker as Joe Acaba working most earth-faced during these seconds of recordings."

That's cool! But there's nothing in that that indicates the image contains a "timestamp"!

Quackquackquack.

Re: satellites
« Reply #47 on: December 16, 2009, 02:43:18 PM »
I know an amateur astronomer that has taken pictures of the ISS. He has nothing to do with NASA. So that eliminates that takes care of that. He also takes pictures of the sun.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: satellites
« Reply #48 on: December 16, 2009, 06:49:05 PM »
It says right on Vandebergh's picture in the OP:

    "According to data from the helmet cam, and calculated from the point of sunset in the video and during the pass, timing and location indicated the spacewalker as Joe Acaba working most earth-faced during these seconds of recordings."

That's cool! But there's nothing in that that indicates the image contains a "timestamp"!

Quackquackquack.

Vandebergh says he correlated the time of the photo to the time stamp of the astronaut's helmet cam to pick his name out as the astronaut.

Where ate the helmet cam videos?  ???

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markjo

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Re: satellites
« Reply #49 on: December 16, 2009, 07:10:00 PM »
Vandebergh says he correlated the time of the photo to the time stamp of the astronaut's helmet cam to pick his name out as the astronaut.

Where ate the helmet cam videos?  ???

As an independent science journalist, Vandebergh likely knows how to find the appropriate video resources easier than you or I do.

Also, all digital video has some sort of time indexing embedded in the data stream.  It may or may not be displayed, but it is there.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Re: satellites
« Reply #50 on: December 16, 2009, 07:19:24 PM »
It is almost a certainty that I could get more money by blowing the lid on the conspiracy to the press than I would be being paid. This could be done either anonymously or even out in the open, in which case it becomes even harder for the conspirators to take action against me or my family because the world will be watching.

NASA has assassinated people who have spoken out against them in the public before. Do a search on these forums for "Thomas Baron".

The last source I will check when looking to clarify information is never the original source I heard it from.

Thomas leaked a report to the media expressing concern for the safety of crew members, after much of his safety concerns were dismissed by NASA and the NAA. After continuing to fight the safety violations that proceeded (probably because they wanted to make it to the moon first) Thomad made a 500 page report, he was fired, this report was never shown to public.

He had charges for what he did, some of which he had been found guilty for. He died three months AFTER his testimony trying to beat a train... which makes an assassination completely pointless seemingly impossible to pull off.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: satellites
« Reply #51 on: December 16, 2009, 07:21:01 PM »
Vandebergh says he correlated the time of the photo to the time stamp of the astronaut's helmet cam to pick his name out as the astronaut.

Where ate the helmet cam videos?  ???

As an independent science journalist, Vandebergh likely knows how to find the appropriate video resources easier than you or I do.

Also, all digital video has some sort of time indexing embedded in the data stream.  It may or may not be displayed, but it is there.

Indexing stamps aren't time stamps.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 07:32:25 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Tom Bishop

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Re: satellites
« Reply #52 on: December 16, 2009, 07:25:14 PM »
It is almost a certainty that I could get more money by blowing the lid on the conspiracy to the press than I would be being paid. This could be done either anonymously or even out in the open, in which case it becomes even harder for the conspirators to take action against me or my family because the world will be watching.

NASA has assassinated people who have spoken out against them in the public before. Do a search on these forums for "Thomas Baron".

The last source I will check when looking to clarify information is never the original source I heard it from.

Thomas leaked a report to the media expressing concern for the safety of crew members, after much of his safety concerns were dismissed by NASA and the NAA. After continuing to fight the safety violations that proceeded (probably because they wanted to make it to the moon first) Thomad made a 500 page report, he was fired, this report was never shown to public.

He had charges for what he did, some of which he had been found guilty for. He died three months AFTER his testimony trying to beat a train... which makes an assassination completely pointless seemingly impossible to pull off.


While he managed to testify and get the word out that NASA was running a low quality, if not fake, space program, Baron was assassinated before he managed to publish his 500 page report detailing the deficiencies.

Re: satellites
« Reply #53 on: December 16, 2009, 07:25:20 PM »
Vandebergh says he correlated the time of the photo to the time stamp of the astronaut's helmet cam to pick his name out as the astronaut.

Where ate the helmet cam videos?  ???

As an independent science journalist, Vandebergh likely knows how to find the appropriate video resources easier than you or I do.

Also, all digital video has some sort of time indexing embedded in the data stream.  It may or may not be displayed, but it is there.

I don't believe I've seen a view from a helmet cam ever, much less one with time stamps.

From what I know about digital photography, if you go into photoshop and open the details of an image, you can see when it was taken, and a bunch of info. Even some image upload websites can pull this info.

Re: satellites
« Reply #54 on: December 16, 2009, 07:27:26 PM »
It is almost a certainty that I could get more money by blowing the lid on the conspiracy to the press than I would be being paid. This could be done either anonymously or even out in the open, in which case it becomes even harder for the conspirators to take action against me or my family because the world will be watching.

NASA has assassinated people who have spoken out against them in the public before. Do a search on these forums for "Thomas Baron".

The last source I will check when looking to clarify information is never the original source I heard it from.

Thomas leaked a report to the media expressing concern for the safety of crew members, after much of his safety concerns were dismissed by NASA and the NAA. After continuing to fight the safety violations that proceeded (probably because they wanted to make it to the moon first) Thomad made a 500 page report, he was fired, this report was never shown to public.

He had charges for what he did, some of which he had been found guilty for. He died three months AFTER his testimony trying to beat a train... which makes an assassination completely pointless seemingly impossible to pull off.


While he managed to testify and get the word out that NASA was running a low quality, if not fake, space program, Baron was assassinated before he managed to publish his 500 page report detailing the deficiencies.

All of his concerns were surely covered in court, which didn't fly over, and it surely would NOT surprise me that NASA has fake programs. But for the whole thing to be a sham is not necessary, even for one to be assassinated which I very much doubt happened.

I will read what this site says about him also.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: satellites
« Reply #55 on: December 16, 2009, 07:28:55 PM »
From what I know about digital photography, if you go into photoshop and open the details of an image, you can see when it was taken, and a bunch of info. Even some image upload websites can pull this info.

Actually that just shows when the image was modified.

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markjo

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Re: satellites
« Reply #56 on: December 16, 2009, 07:31:07 PM »
I don't believe I've seen a view from a helmet cam ever, much less one with time stamps.

Here you go.  It's not from the mission in question, but it's NASA helmet cam video (once you get past the ads).
http://www.redorbit.com/news/video/space/6/joe_tanners_helmet_cam_during_first_spacewalk/25606/?src=mrss
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: satellites
« Reply #57 on: December 16, 2009, 07:32:44 PM »
From what I know about digital photography, if you go into photoshop and open the details of an image, you can see when it was taken, and a bunch of info. Even some image upload websites can pull this info.

Actually that just shows when the image was modified.

No it doesn't. It shows the exact date and time the image was taken. It's embedded into the image, along with the aperture, shutter speed, light scale, quality, etc etc etc...

I'm not talking about right clicking its containing folder and choosing the layout as "detailed". That gives you the modified date, file size, etc...

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Tom Bishop

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Re: satellites
« Reply #58 on: December 16, 2009, 07:33:14 PM »
I don't believe I've seen a view from a helmet cam ever, much less one with time stamps.

Here you go.  It's not from the mission in question, but it's NASA helmet cam video (once you get past the ads).
http://www.redorbit.com/news/video/space/6/joe_tanners_helmet_cam_during_first_spacewalk/25606/?src=mrss

I don't see any time stamps.

Re: satellites
« Reply #59 on: December 16, 2009, 07:36:41 PM »
I don't believe I've seen a view from a helmet cam ever, much less one with time stamps.

Here you go.  It's not from the mission in question, but it's NASA helmet cam video (once you get past the ads).
http://www.redorbit.com/news/video/space/6/joe_tanners_helmet_cam_during_first_spacewalk/25606/?src=mrss

I don't see any time stamps.

My camera includes time stamps and much information recorded during the exact millisecond of the image process, and it's an original Rebel XT. Out of date technology.