Circumference of flat earth/coastline of Antarctica

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Circumference of flat earth/coastline of Antarctica
« Reply #60 on: April 09, 2012, 09:35:26 AM »
Clayman, what proof are you asking for?

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Turbofan

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Re: Circumference of flat earth/coastline of Antarctica
« Reply #61 on: May 09, 2012, 10:05:47 PM »
Quote
Why does it only take 11,000 miles to totally circumnavigate Antarctica and end up where you started, when it should take 78,000?

That's because it doesn't.

Then why is the coastline of Antarctica recorded to be 11,000 miles?

Who recorded it?

Fedor Konyukhov did it in 102 Days.   If it was 78,000 miles he would have had to average 767 miles per day!

As it stands, he would have averaged a more realistic 107 miles a day.

Tom, I know you are going to reject this evidence out of hand.  I'm interested to know the reason.

I don't think that account is fabricated. He might have gone around something. Not necessarily the Ice Rim.

How do you know mr Bishop have you been there? if not why dont you go! i will pay all the expenses! here is your chance to prove your theory.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Circumference of flat earth/coastline of Antarctica
« Reply #62 on: May 09, 2012, 11:18:49 PM »
Quote
Why does it only take 11,000 miles to totally circumnavigate Antarctica and end up where you started, when it should take 78,000?

That's because it doesn't.

Then why is the coastline of Antarctica recorded to be 11,000 miles?

Who recorded it?

Fedor Konyukhov did it in 102 Days.   If it was 78,000 miles he would have had to average 767 miles per day!

As it stands, he would have averaged a more realistic 107 miles a day.

Tom, I know you are going to reject this evidence out of hand.  I'm interested to know the reason.

I don't think that account is fabricated. He might have gone around something. Not necessarily the Ice Rim.

How do you know mr Bishop have you been there? if not why dont you go! i will pay all the expenses! here is your chance to prove your theory.

PM Daniel and I'm sure he will be willing to tell you how to deposit those funds into our PayPal account.  How exciting!
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

?

Turbofan

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Re: Circumference of flat earth/coastline of Antarctica
« Reply #63 on: May 09, 2012, 11:46:37 PM »
Quote
Why does it only take 11,000 miles to totally circumnavigate Antarctica and end up where you started, when it should take 78,000?

That's because it doesn't.

i didn't say i will give you money! I said i will pay for the trip  ;D. Do you want to come along???
Then why is the coastline of Antarctica recorded to be 11,000 miles?

Who recorded it?

Fedor Konyukhov did it in 102 Days.   If it was 78,000 miles he would have had to average 767 miles per day!

As it stands, he would have averaged a more realistic 107 miles a day.

Tom, I know you are going to reject this evidence out of hand.  I'm interested to know the reason.

I don't think that account is fabricated. He might have gone around something. Not necessarily the Ice Rim.

How do you know mr Bishop have you been there? if not why dont you go! i will pay all the expenses! here is your chance to prove your theory.

PM Daniel and I'm sure he will be willing to tell you how to deposit those funds into our PayPal account.  How exciting!

?

Turbofan

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Re: Circumference of flat earth/coastline of Antarctica
« Reply #64 on: May 09, 2012, 11:53:06 PM »
Quote
Why does it only take 11,000 miles to totally circumnavigate Antarctica and end up where you started, when it should take 78,000?

That's because it doesn't.

Then why is the coastline of Antarctica recorded to be 11,000 miles?

Who recorded it?

Fedor Konyukhov did it in 102 Days.   If it was 78,000 miles he would have had to average 767 miles per day!

As it stands, he would have averaged a more realistic 107 miles a day.

Tom, I know you are going to reject this evidence out of hand.  I'm interested to know the reason.

I don't think that account is fabricated. He might have gone around something. Not necessarily the Ice Rim.

How do you know mr Bishop have you been there? if not why dont you go! i will pay all the expenses! here is your chance to prove your theory.

PM Daniel and I'm sure he will be willing to tell you how to deposit those funds into our PayPal account.  How exciting!

I didn't say that I will give you money!  ;D. I said that i will pay for the trip, do you want to come along? ;)

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Circumference of flat earth/coastline of Antarctica
« Reply #65 on: May 10, 2012, 07:00:54 AM »
Quote
Why does it only take 11,000 miles to totally circumnavigate Antarctica and end up where you started, when it should take 78,000?

That's because it doesn't.

Then why is the coastline of Antarctica recorded to be 11,000 miles?

Who recorded it?

Fedor Konyukhov did it in 102 Days.   If it was 78,000 miles he would have had to average 767 miles per day!

As it stands, he would have averaged a more realistic 107 miles a day.

Tom, I know you are going to reject this evidence out of hand.  I'm interested to know the reason.

I don't think that account is fabricated. He might have gone around something. Not necessarily the Ice Rim.

How do you know mr Bishop have you been there? if not why dont you go! i will pay all the expenses! here is your chance to prove your theory.

PM Daniel and I'm sure he will be willing to tell you how to deposit those funds into our PayPal account.  How exciting!

I didn't say that I will give you money!  ;D. I said that i will pay for the trip, do you want to come along? ;)

Well, of course the money will be used for the trip, but how can we trust that you're sincere if you're not willing to deposit it into our PayPal account up front?

I would love to go!
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Circumference of flat earth/coastline of Antarctica
« Reply #66 on: May 10, 2012, 08:33:28 AM »
Quote
Why does it only take 11,000 miles to totally circumnavigate Antarctica and end up where you started, when it should take 78,000?

That's because it doesn't.

Then why is the coastline of Antarctica recorded to be 11,000 miles?

Who recorded it?

Fedor Konyukhov did it in 102 Days.   If it was 78,000 miles he would have had to average 767 miles per day!

As it stands, he would have averaged a more realistic 107 miles a day.

Tom, I know you are going to reject this evidence out of hand.  I'm interested to know the reason.

I don't think that account is fabricated. He might have gone around something. Not necessarily the Ice Rim.

How do you know mr Bishop have you been there? if not why dont you go! i will pay all the expenses! here is your chance to prove your theory.

PM Daniel and I'm sure he will be willing to tell you how to deposit those funds into our PayPal account.  How exciting!

I didn't say that I will give you money!  ;D. I said that i will pay for the trip, do you want to come along? ;)

Well, of course the money will be used for the trip, but how can we trust that you're sincere if you're not willing to deposit it into our PayPal account up front?

I would love to go!

I think he is talking about a different kind of trip than you are.

?

Turbofan

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Re: Circumference of flat earth/coastline of Antarctica
« Reply #67 on: May 10, 2012, 09:51:52 AM »
Quote
Why does it only take 11,000 miles to totally circumnavigate Antarctica and end up where you started, when it should take 78,000?

That's because it doesn't.

Then why is the coastline of Antarctica recorded to be 11,000 miles?

Who recorded it?

Fedor Konyukhov did it in 102 Days.   If it was 78,000 miles he would have had to average 767 miles per day!

As it stands, he would have averaged a more realistic 107 miles a day.

Tom, I know you are going to reject this evidence out of hand.  I'm interested to know the reason.

I don't think that account is fabricated. He might have gone around something. Not necessarily the Ice Rim.

How do you know mr Bishop have you been there? if not why dont you go! i will pay all the expenses! here is your chance to prove your theory.

PM Daniel and I'm sure he will be willing to tell you how to deposit those funds into our PayPal account.  How exciting!

I didn't say that I will give you money!  ;D. I said that i will pay for the trip, do you want to come along? ;)

Well, of course the money will be used for the trip, but how can we trust that you're sincere if you're not willing to deposit it into our PayPal account up front?

I would love to go!


I think he is talking about a different kind of trip than you are.

Let me enlight  you about your question! A simple exmple :D, If you ask a woman out  for dinner, do you give her the money for the dinner up front ? or you go to dinner together and you pay the bill?  ;)

Now i will say the same thing for the third time ;D I said... (clears throat) I WILL PAY for the trip, so Flat Earth Society can make all the necessary arrangements with bookings and I will pay the bill! ;D The offer applies to all the members of the Flat Earth Society. I will even fund you your own documentary crew so you can make your own documentary!

And please don't ask why... its simple ... ;D because I can  ;D


Re: Circumference of flat earth/coastline of Antarctica
« Reply #68 on: May 10, 2012, 10:00:46 AM »
Please dont waste your money Turbofan
First of all, Antarctia has been crossed, mapped, and people live there.
It is not "the ice wall". It is a separate continet, See Master's  Willmores map.
 
Also, you will never convince a faqqer of anything. Even if you went they would say they were drugged, or that they were witnessing a hologram, or something silly like that.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Circumference of flat earth/coastline of Antarctica
« Reply #69 on: May 10, 2012, 07:20:07 PM »
Quote
Why does it only take 11,000 miles to totally circumnavigate Antarctica and end up where you started, when it should take 78,000?

That's because it doesn't.

Then why is the coastline of Antarctica recorded to be 11,000 miles?

Who recorded it?

Fedor Konyukhov did it in 102 Days.   If it was 78,000 miles he would have had to average 767 miles per day!

As it stands, he would have averaged a more realistic 107 miles a day.

Tom, I know you are going to reject this evidence out of hand.  I'm interested to know the reason.

I don't think that account is fabricated. He might have gone around something. Not necessarily the Ice Rim.

How do you know mr Bishop have you been there? if not why dont you go! i will pay all the expenses! here is your chance to prove your theory.

PM Daniel and I'm sure he will be willing to tell you how to deposit those funds into our PayPal account.  How exciting!

I didn't say that I will give you money!  ;D. I said that i will pay for the trip, do you want to come along? ;)

Well, of course the money will be used for the trip, but how can we trust that you're sincere if you're not willing to deposit it into our PayPal account up front?

I would love to go!


I think he is talking about a different kind of trip than you are.

Let me enlight  you about your question! A simple exmple :D, If you ask a woman out  for dinner, do you give her the money for the dinner up front ? or you go to dinner together and you pay the bill?  ;)

Now i will say the same thing for the third time ;D I said... (clears throat) I WILL PAY for the trip, so Flat Earth Society can make all the necessary arrangements with bookings and I will pay the bill! ;D The offer applies to all the members of the Flat Earth Society. I will even fund you your own documentary crew so you can make your own documentary!

And please don't ask why... its simple ... ;D because I can  ;D

I'm sorry, you have to understand, we get a lot of trolls here.  While I usually prefer to look for the good in people and assume the best intentions, because I'm an idealist, I'm just not sure we can trust you to pay up when the time comes.  Also, this is a bit different from trying to woo a woman (unless you are attracted to Tom Bishop!  :-X) so your analogy really doesn't apply.

But I do trust that you fully intend to live up to your word, and provide us with the $$$ necessary to mount this expedition.  If you're really interested, PM Daniel and ask him how to deposit money into our PayPal account!
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

?

Turbofan

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Re: Circumference of flat earth/coastline of Antarctica
« Reply #70 on: May 10, 2012, 09:36:43 PM »
Quote
Why does it only take 11,000 miles to totally circumnavigate Antarctica and end up where you started, when it should take 78,000?

That's because it doesn't.

Then why is the coastline of Antarctica recorded to be 11,000 miles?

Who recorded it?

Fedor Konyukhov did it in 102 Days.   If it was 78,000 miles he would have had to average 767 miles per day!

As it stands, he would have averaged a more realistic 107 miles a day.

Tom, I know you are going to reject this evidence out of hand.  I'm interested to know the reason.

I don't think that account is fabricated. He might have gone around something. Not necessarily the Ice Rim.

How do you know mr Bishop have you been there? if not why dont you go! i will pay all the expenses! here is your chance to prove your theory.

PM Daniel and I'm sure he will be willing to tell you how to deposit those funds into our PayPal account.  How exciting!

I didn't say that I will give you money!  ;D. I said that i will pay for the trip, do you want to come along? ;)

Well, of course the money will be used for the trip, but how can we trust that you're sincere if you're not willing to deposit it into our PayPal account up front?

I would love to go!


I think he is talking about a different kind of trip than you are.

Let me enlight  you about your question! A simple exmple :D, If you ask a woman out  for dinner, do you give her the money for the dinner up front ? or you go to dinner together and you pay the bill?  ;)

Now i will say the same thing for the third time ;D I said... (clears throat) I WILL PAY for the trip, so Flat Earth Society can make all the necessary arrangements with bookings and I will pay the bill! ;D The offer applies to all the members of the Flat Earth Society. I will even fund you your own documentary crew so you can make your own documentary!

And please don't ask why... its simple ... ;D because I can  ;D

I'm sorry, you have to understand, we get a lot of trolls here.  While I usually prefer to look for the good in people and assume the best intentions, because I'm an idealist, I'm just not sure we can trust you to pay up when the time comes.  Also, this is a bit different from trying to woo a woman (unless you are attracted to Tom Bishop!  :-X) so your analogy really doesn't apply.

But I do trust that you fully intend to live up to your word, and provide us with the $$$ necessary to mount this expedition.  If you're really interested, PM Daniel and ask him how to deposit money into our PayPal account!

Well, the dinner example is what i state in the the first place... an example, but you choose to elaborate, change the sentence and imply that i am a gay man which is not true so your point was to insult me! The second assumption was that i am a troll which again i am not because i didn't say anything to imply that! The proposition in our conversation here is quite simple, as i have explained earlier adding a purposely misinterpreted example to gain grounds to throw insults, i  am making an offer here to cover the cost of logistics and take whoever of your group is interested on an exploration expedition, adding  a documentary crew to record things the way you will dictate. Now i would expect that the appropriate assertiveness from your side to be something like "thank you for your offer mr X, how can we make arrangements so the we can meet and discuss the matter at hand" and not "PM mr David and deposit the £££ in our paypal account" which is abrupt for a multilevel procedure like this one. This is business my friend trust me and in the business world you have to glide not drop!

Re: Circumference of flat earth/coastline of Antarctica
« Reply #71 on: May 11, 2012, 06:47:07 AM »
your trip will only prove the what is already known. Antarctica is a continent.
If you have the means, this simple experiment will prove its planar.

mount a camera to one balloon, preferably in a desert or flat plain, or salt flat. or even on a large body of water (if you have a boat). Do this at night.
about 20-25 miles away raise another balloon with a bright light beacon.
raise them both about 100-200 feet off the ground. Do this in an area with no trees or other obstructions.

Now if the video shows the lights beacon we know its planar.

This test is simple if you live in the right area. and have access to a camera and strong light.

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MrT

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Re: Circumference of flat earth/coastline of Antarctica
« Reply #72 on: May 11, 2012, 07:53:06 AM »
your trip will only prove the what is already known. Antarctica is a continent.
If you have the means, this simple experiment will prove its planar.

mount a camera to one balloon, preferably in a desert or flat plain, or salt flat. or even on a large body of water (if you have a boat). Do this at night.
about 20-25 miles away raise another balloon with a bright light beacon.
raise them both about 100-200 feet off the ground. Do this in an area with no trees or other obstructions.

Now if the video shows the lights beacon we know its planar.

This test is simple if you live in the right area. and have access to a camera and strong light.

I like the idea of this test, but if the Earth is flat why would the lights have to be 100-200 feet high?  Shouldn't 10-20 feet be plenty (as long as it was above the tallest waves, etc.)?

I would have to do the math, but I'm not entirely sure that two objects, each 100-200 feet high would not have line of site to each other on a round earth at 20 miles apart.

Edit:  In fact, if both balloons were at 100' height the direct line of site would only just be obstructed by the curvature of the earth when they were 25 miles apart.  Even a little higher or closer and there would be direct line of site between the two objects and light would be visable to the camera dispite the Earth's curvature.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2012, 08:16:24 AM by MrT »
The above is not meant to be an attack or inflammatory, it's just what I think.

Quote from: Tom Bishop
I don't understand

Re: Circumference of flat earth/coastline of Antarctica
« Reply #73 on: May 11, 2012, 08:42:15 AM »
 
lets pick 50 ft, i pulgged this in to the spherical earth theory diameter and accordingly objects would be obscured at 20 miles.  So just to be safe go 25 miles apart.

So this makes things logistically easier.
raise both ballons, one with camera, one with bright beacon,
and if the light is visible, which i am guessing it will be, planar earth.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Circumference of flat earth/coastline of Antarctica
« Reply #74 on: May 11, 2012, 04:42:31 PM »
Well, the dinner example is what i state in the the first place... an example, but you choose to elaborate, change the sentence and imply that i am a gay man which is not true so your point was to insult me!

I never implied any such thing.  There's a website called rif.org you might want to visit sometime.

Quote
The second assumption was that i am a troll which again i am not because i didn't say anything to imply that!

Again, rif.org.  I didn't assume you are a troll (though to be fair this post is making me wonder).  I fear that you may be a troll because we see so many.  More visitors here are trolls than aren't.  The law of averages suggests it.  I gave you a way to prove you're not trolling and so far you're failing to make your case.  :(

Quote
The proposition in our conversation here is quite simple, as i have explained earlier adding a purposely misinterpreted example to gain grounds to throw insults, i  am making an offer here to cover the cost of logistics and take whoever of your group is interested on an exploration expedition, adding  a documentary crew to record things the way you will dictate. Now i would expect that the appropriate assertiveness from your side to be something like "thank you for your offer mr X, how can we make arrangements so the we can meet and discuss the matter at hand" and not "PM mr David and deposit the £££ in our paypal account" which is abrupt for a multilevel procedure like this one. This is business my friend trust me and in the business world you have to glide not drop!

You are asking us to plan an entire itinerary on the promise of a stranger.  You're starting to smell more like a con artist than a troll.  I'm afraid we just can't trust you unless you front the money.  But rest assured if you do front the money the expedition shall be mounted!

I'll tell you what.  I sense you may be apprehensive about providing Daniel with the money because you don't know him.  PM me the pertinent information regarding your debit/credit card (card number, expiration date, name, address, and of course the secret three-digit code on the back) and I promise I will make this happen.  I've been chomping at the bit to mount such an expedition!  You can trust me; we're already friends!   :)

disclaimer: Do not pm me with your account details.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2012, 05:48:28 PM by Roundy the Truthinessist »
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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hoppy

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Re: Circumference of flat earth/coastline of Antarctica
« Reply #75 on: May 11, 2012, 05:03:29 PM »
Turbofan, Don't worry about giving Roundy the information I will vouch for him.
God is real.                                         
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zarg

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Re: Circumference of flat earth/coastline of Antarctica
« Reply #76 on: May 11, 2012, 05:22:55 PM »
But rest assured if you do front the money the expedition shall be mounted!

You're starting to smell more like a con artist than a troll.
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[Lord Wilmore's writings] are written the way a high schooler thinks an educated person should sound like.  The pathetic pseudo-academic writing can't hide the lack of any real substance.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Circumference of flat earth/coastline of Antarctica
« Reply #77 on: May 11, 2012, 05:49:46 PM »
But rest assured if you do front the money the expedition shall be mounted!

You're starting to smell more like a con artist than a troll.

Actually, even though I would hope it's obvious to Turbofan that I'm joking and don't expect him to actually send me his financial details, what I did was kind of bad form.  I've added an appropriate disclaimer to the post.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

Re: Circumference of flat earth/coastline of Antarctica
« Reply #78 on: May 11, 2012, 06:26:18 PM »
so the official response for moderators is to extort money from new posters, who had a VERY Zetetic idea
demand credit card numbers, expiration dates and 3 digit numbers???

is this what this Society has come to?

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Circumference of flat earth/coastline of Antarctica
« Reply #79 on: May 11, 2012, 06:28:26 PM »
so the official response for moderators is to extort money from new posters, who had a VERY Zetetic idea
demand credit card numbers, expiration dates and 3 digit numbers???

is this what this Society has come to?

Well... no.  I think I made that pretty clear.  :-\

Besides, it wouldn't be extortion anyway.  He offered to finance the trip.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2012, 06:31:12 PM by Roundy the Truthinessist »
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

Re: Circumference of flat earth/coastline of Antarctica
« Reply #80 on: May 12, 2012, 12:13:17 AM »
As of 2012 the CIA shows an approximation (no error given) of the Antarctica Coastline to be 18,000.

The question that really needs to be answered is.. according to Flat Earth Theory .. how much land area does Antactica constitue?

Then you can do the circumference calculation.

Your math is fuzzy... it taking into consideration 100% of the Earth's land area.. that's why the numbers are so off..

duhhhh

Re: Circumference of flat earth/coastline of Antarctica
« Reply #81 on: August 12, 2015, 02:31:28 PM »
BUMP

<Excerpt from the Flat Earth Conspiracy, by Eric DuBay>


Now there's a reliable source of information.  ::)
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Mikey T.

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Re: Circumference of flat earth/coastline of Antarctica
« Reply #82 on: August 12, 2015, 02:48:55 PM »
Here ya go a different source about the cook journey.
http://libweb5.princeton.edu/visual_materials/maps/websites/pacific/cook2/cook2.html
I love how most FE sources either blatantly misquote or leave out information to try to show that history supports their claims.  Yet when you call them out, that part that they left out is always claimed to be conspiracy driven revisionist history.

Here is the published chart of Captain Cook's voyage.  Publish in his book in 1777 after his return in 1775. 

The 60000 mile figure includes from start to end, from England to all the stuff in between and back to England.  But since this 60000 mile figure closely matches what sailing the length of the "ice wall" on a FE map, they conveniently leave out the part of the journey that includes getting there and add all the mileage into the exploration portion.
 

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Circumference of flat earth/coastline of Antarctica
« Reply #83 on: August 13, 2015, 04:31:00 PM »
Wow, that chart looks pretty flat to me.   :-\

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mikeman7918

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Re: Circumference of flat earth/coastline of Antarctica
« Reply #84 on: August 13, 2015, 04:34:30 PM »
Wow, that chart looks pretty flat to me.   :-\

It's a hemisphere imperfectly projected onto a circle.  This particular projection can also be found nowhere on any flat Earth map other then duel Earth.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.

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Pezevenk

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Re: Circumference of flat earth/coastline of Antarctica
« Reply #85 on: August 15, 2015, 04:01:49 AM »
BUMP

<Excerpt from the Flat Earth Conspiracy, by Eric DuBay>


Now there's a reliable source of information.  ::)

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Yeah, why not, Eric Dubay!
Member of the BOTD for Anti Fascism and Racism

It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
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Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from
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Pezevenk

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Re: Circumference of flat earth/coastline of Antarctica
« Reply #86 on: August 15, 2015, 04:04:14 AM »
Wow, that chart looks pretty flat to me.   :-\

*facepalm*

What did you expect, 3d or something?
Member of the BOTD for Anti Fascism and Racism

It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from
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hello_there

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Re: Circumference of flat earth/coastline of Antarctica
« Reply #87 on: August 17, 2015, 02:26:30 PM »
well it literally says "a chart of the southern HEMISPHERE" at the top
hemi: half
sphere: round geometrical object in three-dimensional space

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Mikey T.

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Re: Circumference of flat earth/coastline of Antarctica
« Reply #88 on: August 18, 2015, 10:41:11 AM »
Wow, that chart looks pretty flat to me.   :-\
Sarchasm, when actually funny, will get you a laugh jroa.  This one made me laugh.  TY

Re: Circumference of flat earth/coastline of Antarctica
« Reply #89 on: August 16, 2016, 06:46:19 PM »
Even without knowing (or caring) about the size - or shape - of the planet, and even without using a magnetic compass, ships have completely circumnavigated Antarctica in a few weeks, arriving at their starting point and finding their way back to port by means of radio beacons.

The mere fact that Antarctica could be circumnavigated, even once, would PROVE that it is not surrounding the flat planet.  But such circumnavigation cruises have been done many times, and continue to be done.

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1901&dat=19860817&id=NlQgAAAAIBAJ&sjid=UtIEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2609,979496

  By whatever measurement you want - travel time, fuel consumption, mileage - the Antarctic coastline measures roughly 18,000 km (11,200 miles), very roughly half the coastline length of Australia (but the area of Antarctica is about twice that of Australia).
« Last Edit: November 05, 2016, 10:52:08 PM by Cartog »