Circumference of flat earth/coastline of Antarctica

I've never said that the original FET map is correct. It's for visual purposes only, as I've been saying all along.

I never made any claim to measure or map out the layout of the entire world.

Then why don't you map it out? Thousands have helped map out our round world, why don't you go map out your flat world?

Quote

Oh yes you have:

I haven't claimed to measure or map out anything. I've only related what Sir James Clark Ross did.

Mmmm. You now seem to be distancing yourself from Sir James Clark Ross and the 60,000 mile claim.  You have used him countless times on these forums to support the FE POV, and now you are shying away.

Where's your head, Tom.  Fedor Konyukhov or Sir JCR ?

Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 13, 2009, 01:50:48 AM

The compass barely even works at the longitude of Seattle, Washingtion. At that longitude the field lines are at an angle and compass needle is already scraping along its bottom.

Evidence: http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/aug98/899130154.Es.r.html

really, tom?

I live at a latitude of 57.5 degrees north.
Seattle is 47.6 degrees north.

the compass works perfectly well here, I have many times in my life used compasses while mountaineering and hillwalking.

yet again, your claims are absolute and utter nonsense.

I didn't say that the compass doesn't work at those latitudes far below the arctic circle. It just scrapes along the bottom.

Also, the compass you bought may have had an axle already in it since only specialty compasses are typically sold at higher latitudes.

Once you get to the Arctic circle the field lines are vertical and the dip compass just points downward, making the compass useless to the explorer.

Ahh, Tom, where would we be without your leaps of assumption and splendid ignorance of reality?



a bog-standard Silva compass. as made in sweden. (that's a country with much of its land mass in the arctic circle, for those of us who adhere to Real Earth geography, by the way)
It served me very well, pointing to the north and south poles from as far north as Tromso in norway (well beyond the circle) and as far south as New Mexico... its still probably in my parent's house all these years later. somewhere.


Unfortunately, "dip compasses" as you put them are, in fact something completely different to what your deranged imagination seems to envisage: they are in fact fixed in their rotation on the horizontal plane, so they may only rise and lower in the vertical plane - or dip downwards. they were used by geologists to find magnetic deposits. they are not in any sense used by rational man, beast or duck, a device used for dertermining north, in such a configuration. Many dip compasses, however, could be physically moved from vertical to the horizontal plane to be used as normal compasses.

is a pic of one such device.

the change in field in differnt regions can be read here:

http://www.wide-screen.com/Suunto/zoneInfo.shtml

if, for once in your life, Tom, you actually want to learn something about what you're pretending to appear to know something about, instead of simply talking nonsense.




 

No. Dip Compasses don't only look like that. That's not the sole and only incarnation of a dip compass.

There are also electronic dip compasses, which is precisely what the website you've quoted is referencing.

http://www.wide-screen.com/Suunto/zoneInfo.shtml

"The horizontal and vertical components of the earth's magnetic field vary considerably at different locations. Most compasses are balanced for this magnetic inclination or dip by counterweights on the needle to prevent it from dragging on the top or bottom of the compass capsule. A compass needle that is balanced for use in North America will drag or stick in South America. For this reason Suunto balances compasses for 5 different zones. If the compass is used in an adjacent balancing zone, many compass pointers will tilt only slightly, however, the farther a compass is used from its correct zone, the more its pointer tilts. In extreme cases, the pointer will stick. For this reason it is extremely important to know in which zone a compass will be used.

Here is a simplified example of what happens to a compass balanced for Zone 1 when it is taken into the Southern Hemisphere.

Wide Screen Software LLC offers Zone 1 Compasses for the Northern Hemisphere. We often have TANDEMS for the other zones in stock. Please send us an email to inquire about the availability of Suunto TANDEMS for the other magnetic zones.

Suunto has developed a patented global needle that will perform correctly in all 5 of the Earth's zones. This needle in used in Suunto's Global Navigator Compass."

As you can see, this company sells specialty compasses for five different zones. Each compass is marketed to a different zone.

However, even Sunnto's compass won't work where the field lines are vertical at the Arctic and Antarctic circles. At those localities the compass would just point straight downwards.

Luckily for the company relatively no one lives in the Arctic or Antarctic circles.

The field lines ARE nearly vertical in Antarctica, because it is the SOUTH POLE!  You finally got something right!  Your parents got to spend a moment relatively shame free!  Keep this up, and maybe they'll let your dad back into kiwanis!

Luckily for the company relatively no one lives in the Arctic or Antarctic circles.

Since the unmentioned author removes names from quotes of others the same courtesy has been forwarded.

My question is what about all the Australian Antarctic Division research posts? Postings for a year at a time are not unusual. If that's not living then what is...

http://www.aad.gov.au/

Have a look at this link. It even includes non government Antarctic tourism.

We were talking about finding north.

GPS doesn't tell you which way is north.

Point 0) The north pole (geographic or magnetic)
Point 1) Your original location
Point 2) Your current location

Line pt(1), pt(0) = North
Line pt(1), pt(2) = Your travel direction
Angle 0,1,2 your angular orientation relative to north, the closer to zero, the more north you are traveling.

I was about to do that, its a sphere.

Although Tom is technically right, there's nothing in the unit to tell you what direction you're going in.

Quote

Oh yes you have:

I haven't claimed to measure or map out anything. I've only related what Sir James Clark Ross did.

Quote

That appears to be an attempt (by you) to define the boundaries of the FE.  Remember that like Ross, Fedor Konyukhov would have had a compass, telling him which direction he was sailing in.  It seems impossibly unlikely that he would have made such a blindingly obvious navigational mistake.

The compass doesn't even work in the Antarctic or Arctic Circles. I don't know why you'd think that he would use one where it wouldn't work. The compass only really works on a narrow strip of land where the majority of the world lives.

Anyone living in the Arctic circle, for example, could tell you that the compass does not work there due to the field lines being vertical.

The compass barely even works at the longitude of Seattle, Washingtion. At that longitude the field lines are at an angle and compass needle is already scraping along its bottom.

Evidence: http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/aug98/899130154.Es.r.html

"So, what would happen to your compass as you walked north across Canada, towards the location of the North Magnetic Pole out on the Arctic ice? Well, here in Seattle the magnetic field is already tilting down into the ground, and I'm nowhere near the north pole. My compass still points north, but the needle is tilted, and the north end is scraping the bottom of the compass. If I started walking north, it would tilt more and more until it hit bottom and wouldn't work anymore."

The author of the article, William Beaty, goes on to explain that the compass is only usable in a very limited region between the Arctic and Antarctic circles. The compass needle is unable align with the vertical magnetic fields and defy "gravity" at the Northern and Southern regions of the earth, thus becoming useless to the explorer.

If the Earth is flat, that problem with the compass wouldn't exist... You say that the Earth is flat, then say that near the "Ice Rim" You can't tell direction because North is below you. I am surprised noone else noticed this really, really flawed logic. You can't say that telling direction near the poles impossible because the earth is round to disprove proof that the Earth is round.

The field lines need only be vertical at the rim, just as predicted by FET. I'm not sure why you state this would not exist.

We were talking about finding north.

GPS doesn't tell you which way is north.

Yes it does.  Tell the gps you want to go to 90 degrees north latitude.  It will bring you to the true north pole.

I was about to do that, its a sphere.

Although Tom is technically right, there's nothing in the unit to tell you what direction you're going in.

Actually most gps devices inverse between where you were recently and where you are now.  If you maintain a reasonable speed and course, it will display them to you.

The field lines need only be vertical at the rim, just as predicted by FET. I'm not sure why you state this would not exist.

Prove it.

The field lines need only be vertical at the rim, just as predicted by FET. I'm not sure why you state this would not exist.

I am trying to understand this statement.  Your are referring to a theory, and what it would predict if it were true?

I would word that:  If the field lines are vertical at the rim, then that is another piece of evidence supporting FET.

Why does it only take 11,000 miles to totally circumnavigate Antarctica and end up where you started, when it should take 78,000?

It doesn't.

There would be quite a noticeable time difference in travelling 11,000 miles compared to 78,000.

Not necessarily.

Quote from: Arkanos on December 11, 2009, 02:08:21 PM

Why does it only take 11,000 miles to totally circumnavigate Antarctica and end up where you started, when it should take 78,000?

It doesn't.

Quote from: Arkanos on December 11, 2009, 02:08:21 PM

There would be quite a noticeable time difference in travelling 11,000 miles compared to 78,000.

Not necessarily.

Ah, unsubstantiated one liner opinions, presented as fact.  Glad to have you back 

ITT: TB uses a fairly deep understanding of RE physics, tools, maps, and geographical features to claim how the world cant be round because those things (that are long established elementary level physics and navigation principles) he just used as an example, dont actually work.

Then the rest of us get sucked in to what boils down to masterfull trolling. Pseudoscience FTW.

Quote from: Arkanos on December 11, 2009, 02:08:21 PM

Why does it only take 11,000 miles to totally circumnavigate Antarctica and end up where you started, when it should take 78,000?

It doesn't.

Thank you for renewing your membership of the Reality Denial Club.

Quote from: Ski on August 05, 2011, 08:31:51 PM

The field lines need only be vertical at the rim, just as predicted by FET. I'm not sure why you state this would not exist.

I am trying to understand this statement.  Your are referring to a theory, and what it would predict if it were true?

I would word that:  If the field lines are vertical at the rim, then that is another piece of evidence supporting FET.

You may read it that way. FET predicts a zone where vertical field lines would be found encompassing the disc.

As for who's mapped Antarctica, who hasn't?  Private Fishermen, animal rights activists, whalers, Green Peace, oceanographers, environmental protection agency, more private fishermen, explorers, oil drillers, etc...

Who HASN'T flown over it or sailed it or explore it?  I was in the Navy.  I've sailed almost every part of this globe.  I'm willing to bet I've seen more of this planet then any flat earther.

Not ONE map, photo, video, or drawing shows Antarctica as a thin ring at the edge of the earth.   If there is anyone in Australia who thinks the earth is flat then I challenge them to go talk to a private fisherman.  Ask him what he thinks of that.  There is a HUGE difference between a continent (large island) and an outer ring.

The circumference of the earth is 24,901.55 miles around the Equator.  That's the longest distance to be traveled in a straight line.  The earth is not 78,000 miles in circumference around Antarctica.  This is easily proven and it has been proven by so many people it's ridiculous. 

As for who's mapped Antarctica, who hasn't?  Private Fishermen, animal rights activists, whalers, Green Peace, oceanographers, environmental protection agency, more private fishermen, explorers, oil drillers, etc...

Who HASN'T flown over it or sailed it or explore it?  I was in the Navy.  I've sailed almost every part of this globe.  I'm willing to bet I've seen more of this planet then any flat earther.

Not ONE map, photo, video, or drawing shows Antarctica as a thin ring at the edge of the earth.   If there is anyone in Australia who thinks the earth is flat then I challenge them to go talk to a private fisherman.  Ask him what he thinks of that.  There is a HUGE difference between a continent (large island) and an outer ring.

The circumference of the earth is 24,901.55 miles around the Equator.  That's the longest distance to be traveled in a straight line.  The earth is not 78,000 miles in circumference around Antarctica.  This is easily proven and it has been proven by so many people it's ridiculous.

Please do not necro threads unless you have a valid reason. Consider this a warning.

Well, it was either that or I start an identical thread.  Some forums prefer to necro rather than restart the topic.  If you would rather I begin this same topic in a new thread, I will be willing to do so.  But, if I may make one suggestion.... see about removing the search button.  That way, no one will be able to necro. 

As for who's mapped Antarctica, who hasn't?  Private Fishermen, animal rights activists, whalers, Green Peace, oceanographers, environmental protection agency, more private fishermen, explorers, oil drillers, etc...

Who HASN'T flown over it or sailed it or explore it?  I was in the Navy.  I've sailed almost every part of this globe.  I'm willing to bet I've seen more of this planet then any flat earther.

Not ONE map, photo, video, or drawing shows Antarctica as a thin ring at the edge of the earth.   If there is anyone in Australia who thinks the earth is flat then I challenge them to go talk to a private fisherman.  Ask him what he thinks of that.  There is a HUGE difference between a continent (large island) and an outer ring.

The circumference of the earth is 24,901.55 miles around the Equator.  That's the longest distance to be traveled in a straight line.  The earth is not 78,000 miles in circumference around Antarctica.  This is easily proven and it has been proven by so many people it's ridiculous.

No more takers on this one?

As for who's mapped Antarctica, who hasn't?  Private Fishermen, animal rights activists, whalers, Green Peace, oceanographers, environmental protection agency, more private fishermen, explorers, oil drillers, etc...

Who HASN'T flown over it or sailed it or explore it?  I was in the Navy.  I've sailed almost every part of this globe.  I'm willing to bet I've seen more of this planet then any flat earther.

Not ONE map, photo, video, or drawing shows Antarctica as a thin ring at the edge of the earth.   If there is anyone in Australia who thinks the earth is flat then I challenge them to go talk to a private fisherman.  Ask him what he thinks of that.  There is a HUGE difference between a continent (large island) and an outer ring.

The circumference of the earth is 24,901.55 miles around the Equator.  That's the longest distance to be traveled in a straight line.  The earth is not 78,000 miles in circumference around Antarctica.  This is easily proven and it has been proven by so many people it's ridiculous.

So many words and so little sense... What's your point? Can you prove it?

Quote from: Soulfien on April 08, 2012, 03:01:28 PM

As for who's mapped Antarctica, who hasn't?  Private Fishermen, animal rights activists, whalers, Green Peace, oceanographers, environmental protection agency, more private fishermen, explorers, oil drillers, etc...

Who HASN'T flown over it or sailed it or explore it?  I was in the Navy.  I've sailed almost every part of this globe.  I'm willing to bet I've seen more of this planet then any flat earther.

Not ONE map, photo, video, or drawing shows Antarctica as a thin ring at the edge of the earth.   If there is anyone in Australia who thinks the earth is flat then I challenge them to go talk to a private fisherman.  Ask him what he thinks of that.  There is a HUGE difference between a continent (large island) and an outer ring.

The circumference of the earth is 24,901.55 miles around the Equator.  That's the longest distance to be traveled in a straight line.  The earth is not 78,000 miles in circumference around Antarctica.  This is easily proven and it has been proven by so many people it's ridiculous.

So many words and so little sense... What's your point? Can you prove it?

You're asking me if a discrepancy of 53,000 miles can be proven?   It's easy.  GO THERE.  Travel.  I don't know one traveler who believes the earth is flat.  Not one.  I've seen most of the world.  I've met people who have seen even more than I have.  Not one traveler believes that the earth is flat.  Doesn't that tell you something?

53,000 miles.  That's the argument here.   

As I said in my thread Intelligence in Debate, there are 4 types of believers:

1. Those with proof
2. Those with only hearsay
3. Those who believe out of fear (like believing in a hell like christians do)
4. Those who believe because they want to belong to something

If no travelers believe that the world is flat then what does that tell you about the type of believer you are?

Quote from: clayman on April 09, 2012, 02:48:44 AM

Quote from: Soulfien on April 08, 2012, 03:01:28 PM

As for who's mapped Antarctica, who hasn't?  Private Fishermen, animal rights activists, whalers, Green Peace, oceanographers, environmental protection agency, more private fishermen, explorers, oil drillers, etc...

Who HASN'T flown over it or sailed it or explore it?  I was in the Navy.  I've sailed almost every part of this globe.  I'm willing to bet I've seen more of this planet then any flat earther.

Not ONE map, photo, video, or drawing shows Antarctica as a thin ring at the edge of the earth.   If there is anyone in Australia who thinks the earth is flat then I challenge them to go talk to a private fisherman.  Ask him what he thinks of that.  There is a HUGE difference between a continent (large island) and an outer ring.

The circumference of the earth is 24,901.55 miles around the Equator.  That's the longest distance to be traveled in a straight line.  The earth is not 78,000 miles in circumference around Antarctica.  This is easily proven and it has been proven by so many people it's ridiculous.

So many words and so little sense... What's your point? Can you prove it?

You're asking me if a discrepancy of 53,000 miles can be proven?   It's easy.  GO THERE.  Travel.  I don't know one traveler who believes the earth is flat.  Not one.  I've seen most of the world.  I've met people who have seen even more than I have.  Not one traveler believes that the earth is flat.  Doesn't that tell you something?

53,000 miles.  That's the argument here.   

As I said in my thread Intelligence in Debate, there are 4 types of believers:

1. Those with proof
2. Those with only hearsay
3. Those who believe out of fear (like believing in a hell like christians do)
4. Those who believe because they want to belong to something

If no travelers believe that the world is flat then what does that tell you about the type of believer you are?

So you mean you have no proof? You look like believer type 2.

Quote from: Soulfien on April 09, 2012, 07:18:50 AM

Quote from: clayman on April 09, 2012, 02:48:44 AM

Quote from: Soulfien on April 08, 2012, 03:01:28 PM

As for who's mapped Antarctica, who hasn't?  Private Fishermen, animal rights activists, whalers, Green Peace, oceanographers, environmental protection agency, more private fishermen, explorers, oil drillers, etc...

Who HASN'T flown over it or sailed it or explore it?  I was in the Navy.  I've sailed almost every part of this globe.  I'm willing to bet I've seen more of this planet then any flat earther.

Not ONE map, photo, video, or drawing shows Antarctica as a thin ring at the edge of the earth.   If there is anyone in Australia who thinks the earth is flat then I challenge them to go talk to a private fisherman.  Ask him what he thinks of that.  There is a HUGE difference between a continent (large island) and an outer ring.

The circumference of the earth is 24,901.55 miles around the Equator.  That's the longest distance to be traveled in a straight line.  The earth is not 78,000 miles in circumference around Antarctica.  This is easily proven and it has been proven by so many people it's ridiculous.

So many words and so little sense... What's your point? Can you prove it?

You're asking me if a discrepancy of 53,000 miles can be proven?   It's easy.  GO THERE.  Travel.  I don't know one traveler who believes the earth is flat.  Not one.  I've seen most of the world.  I've met people who have seen even more than I have.  Not one traveler believes that the earth is flat.  Doesn't that tell you something?

53,000 miles.  That's the argument here.   

As I said in my thread Intelligence in Debate, there are 4 types of believers:

1. Those with proof
2. Those with only hearsay
3. Those who believe out of fear (like believing in a hell like christians do)
4. Those who believe because they want to belong to something

If no travelers believe that the world is flat then what does that tell you about the type of believer you are?

So you mean you have no proof? You look like believer type 2.

Nah.  I have proof.  As does the world.  You see, as stated in Intelligence in Debate, (the other thread I'm posting in) I have pointed out that there is an astronomical amount of proof supporting a spherical earth yet YOU seem to want to believe it's flat yet when asked for proof, you back talk, get dodgy, insult, and accuse.  You people like Psychiatrists, right?  That's called Transference.  You want to belong so you believe this flat earth conspiracy and turn your noses up at anyone who doesn't believe how you do. 

I have my answer.  Not a single one of you can provide the slightest bit of evidence besides "It looks flat when I stare out of my window."  Congratulations, Clayman.  You have represented your Flat Earth Group like an idiot.

Quote from: clayman on April 09, 2012, 07:43:27 AM

Quote from: Soulfien on April 09, 2012, 07:18:50 AM

Quote from: clayman on April 09, 2012, 02:48:44 AM

Quote from: Soulfien on April 08, 2012, 03:01:28 PM

As for who's mapped Antarctica, who hasn't?  Private Fishermen, animal rights activists, whalers, Green Peace, oceanographers, environmental protection agency, more private fishermen, explorers, oil drillers, etc...

Who HASN'T flown over it or sailed it or explore it?  I was in the Navy.  I've sailed almost every part of this globe.  I'm willing to bet I've seen more of this planet then any flat earther.

Not ONE map, photo, video, or drawing shows Antarctica as a thin ring at the edge of the earth.   If there is anyone in Australia who thinks the earth is flat then I challenge them to go talk to a private fisherman.  Ask him what he thinks of that.  There is a HUGE difference between a continent (large island) and an outer ring.

The circumference of the earth is 24,901.55 miles around the Equator.  That's the longest distance to be traveled in a straight line.  The earth is not 78,000 miles in circumference around Antarctica.  This is easily proven and it has been proven by so many people it's ridiculous.

So many words and so little sense... What's your point? Can you prove it?

You're asking me if a discrepancy of 53,000 miles can be proven?   It's easy.  GO THERE.  Travel.  I don't know one traveler who believes the earth is flat.  Not one.  I've seen most of the world.  I've met people who have seen even more than I have.  Not one traveler believes that the earth is flat.  Doesn't that tell you something?

53,000 miles.  That's the argument here.   

As I said in my thread Intelligence in Debate, there are 4 types of believers:

1. Those with proof
2. Those with only hearsay
3. Those who believe out of fear (like believing in a hell like christians do)
4. Those who believe because they want to belong to something

If no travelers believe that the world is flat then what does that tell you about the type of believer you are?

So you mean you have no proof? You look like believer type 2.

Nah.  I have proof.  As does the world.  You see, as stated in Intelligence in Debate, (the other thread I'm posting in) I have pointed out that there is an astronomical amount of proof supporting a spherical earth yet YOU seem to want to believe it's flat yet when asked for proof, you back talk, get dodgy, insult, and accuse.  You people like Psychiatrists, right?  That's called Transference.  You want to belong so you believe this flat earth conspiracy and turn your noses up at anyone who doesn't believe how you do. 

I have my answer.  Not a single one of you can provide the slightest bit of evidence besides "It looks flat when I stare out of my window."  Congratulations, Clayman.  You have represented your Flat Earth Group like an idiot.

You now insult me and still no proofs... Go get some pills, think about your proves and come back again