Idea: Start a University

  • 368 Replies
  • 75922 Views
?

Don B

Re: Idea: Start a University
« Reply #60 on: December 04, 2009, 08:12:07 AM »
Quote from: markjo
I thought that you said that you already run your own private college.

Quote from: Tom Bishop
I do. I run two private colleges from California. Chairing colleges is what I do for a living.

At one college I run the philosophy is "Learn by Debate".

At another college I run the philosophy is "Learn by Writing".

This is strange, as you started this post off with...

Quote from: Tom Bishop
The well experienced among us know very well that science never progresses through debate.

Science is study, theory, testing, proving, understanding the world around us, progressing & learning. You clearly stated above that there is no progress through debate, yet go by the philosophy of "Learn by Debate".

I'll give you one thing Tom; you are consistently...inconsistent.

What are the names of these two colleges you chair?





*

Ichimaru Gin :]

  • Undefeated FEer
  • Planar Moderator
  • 8880
  • +3/-3
  • Semper vigilans
Re: Idea: Start a University
« Reply #61 on: December 04, 2009, 08:14:08 AM »
Science is study, theory, testing, proving, understanding the world around us, progressing & learning. You clearly stated above that there is no progress through debate, yet go by the philosophy of "Learn by Debate".
Oh dear...another example of how people would benefit from a Zetetic school.
I saw a slight haze in the hotel bathroom this morning after I took a shower, have I discovered a new planet?

*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 18033
  • +6/-9
Re: Idea: Start a University
« Reply #62 on: December 04, 2009, 08:15:16 AM »
Just a small question.

Three people all want the same job, to be a lawyer.

On one hand, you've got a guy who went to the absoloute top university in the land, spent four years studying law and graduated with flying colours.

Inbetween both hands you've got somebody who went to your average university, studied law for 4 years and graduated withy flying colours.

Then, on the other hand, you've got the guy who went to some scummy little online university, got his degree in three weeks and again, passed with flying colours.

You are the employer, an average, reasonable man who believs (like the majority of people) that the world is round, science is science and that lady at the bar is hot and you would totally get with her. You have never heard of Zelticism (am i doing it right?) and don't care what it is. Who would you employ?

You'd employ the guy who went to the championship university, or if he got a better offer elsewhere, the guy who went to the other university. Only if he also got a job somewhere else would you even consider the online degree guy.

Most people know this, which is why they fork out big bucks to go to big universities. So why would anyone choose to graduate from your university if they have other options. Also (keeping in mind I mean no offence) employers tend to reject people with online degrees regardless of whether they need employees and also, an online degree will not get you as far up the company ladder as a regular (and, dare I say it,) real degree will.

If no-one responds to this comment, I win. If anyone makes attack on my spelling or grammar without a valid argument as well (I'm looking at you Tom) I win.

Zetetics tend to be vastly more intelligent than your average RE noob, or the Harvard graduate who cannot tie his shoes.

So yes, once interviewed the employer will pick the most intelligent candidate every time.

As this would start off as a general studies college which teaches the fundamentals, I'd expect that our students would be smart enough to choose a major which they are already familiar with.

I.E., Maybe if they want a Photography major they can supply us a portfolio of their previous photography work or resume before they graduate.

Quote
Most people know this, which is why they fork out big bucks to go to big universities. So why would anyone choose to graduate from your university if they have other options. Also (keeping in mind I mean no offence) employers tend to reject people with online degrees regardless of whether they need employees and also, an online degree will not get you as far up the company ladder as a regular (and, dare I say it,) real degree will.

There is nothing wrong with online degrees. There are Regionally Accredited distance learning colleges where you can get you degree in under three hours with a single 140 question multiple choice test. Students haven't had a problem with acceptance.

Quality is a subjective matter.

Quote
I'm sorry, but what marketable skills will you be teaching again?  A degree may get someone an interview, but it is by no means a guarantee of success (especially in this economy).  There are plenty of Liberal Arts grads working at Burger King.

Zetetics bring the ability to think beyond the norm and the ability to reason.

Our program will be a little more intuitive than the hiking and basket weaving courses which make up a typical college.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 03:37:27 PM by Tom Bishop »

?

Don B

Re: Idea: Start a University
« Reply #63 on: December 04, 2009, 08:19:17 AM »
Science is study, theory, testing, proving, understanding the world around us, progressing & learning. You clearly stated above that there is no progress through debate, yet go by the philosophy of "Learn by Debate".
Oh dear...another example of how people would benefit from a Zetetic school.

A statement like that without any example of where I was wrong and how I would benefit is invalid.

*

Ichimaru Gin :]

  • Undefeated FEer
  • Planar Moderator
  • 8880
  • +3/-3
  • Semper vigilans
Re: Idea: Start a University
« Reply #64 on: December 04, 2009, 08:21:14 AM »
Science is study, theory, testing, proving, understanding the world around us, progressing & learning. You clearly stated above that there is no progress through debate, yet go by the philosophy of "Learn by Debate".
Oh dear...another example of how people would benefit from a Zetetic school.

A statement like that without any example of where I was wrong and how I would benefit is invalid.
Oh dear...another example of how people would benefit from a Zetetic school.
I saw a slight haze in the hotel bathroom this morning after I took a shower, have I discovered a new planet?

?

Don B

Re: Idea: Start a University
« Reply #65 on: December 04, 2009, 08:24:25 AM »
Science is study, theory, testing, proving, understanding the world around us, progressing & learning. You clearly stated above that there is no progress through debate, yet go by the philosophy of "Learn by Debate".
Oh dear...another example of how people would benefit from a Zetetic school.

A statement like that without any example of where I was wrong and how I would benefit is invalid.
Oh dear...another example of how people would benefit from a Zetetic school.

Come along, you can do better than quoting over and over again. I want you, in your own words, to explain to me how I was wrong and where I can benefit.

*

Ichimaru Gin :]

  • Undefeated FEer
  • Planar Moderator
  • 8880
  • +3/-3
  • Semper vigilans
Re: Idea: Start a University
« Reply #66 on: December 04, 2009, 08:25:29 AM »
Surely someone trying to define science knows that nothing has been proven by it.  ;)
I saw a slight haze in the hotel bathroom this morning after I took a shower, have I discovered a new planet?

?

Don B

Re: Idea: Start a University
« Reply #67 on: December 04, 2009, 08:31:09 AM »
Surely someone trying to define science knows that nothing has been proven by it.  ;)

We can spin this off into another topic later if you wish, I really don't want to hijack this thread. I'm interested in a response from Mr. Bishop.

*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 18033
  • +6/-9
Re: Idea: Start a University
« Reply #68 on: December 04, 2009, 09:17:00 AM »
Quote
Science is study, theory, testing, proving, understanding the world around us, progressing & learning. You clearly stated above that there is no progress through debate, yet go by the philosophy of "Learn by Debate".

My debate college does not progress science. I never said that it did.

Quote
What are the names of these two colleges you chair?

I'm not keen on being stalked.

?

Don B

Re: Idea: Start a University
« Reply #69 on: December 04, 2009, 11:51:37 AM »
Quote
Science is study, theory, testing, proving, understanding the world around us, progressing & learning. You clearly stated above that there is no progress through debate, yet go by the philosophy of "Learn by Debate".

[qoute author=Tom Bishop]My debate college does not progress science. I never said that it did.

Mr. Bishop, I never said they did either. Please don't resort to strawman arguments. What I stated (and now have to condense for you) was that science is the process of learning. You said that science doesn't progress from debates. And yet, you claim a process of "Learning by Debate".

And now you've changed the terminology to "debate college". So what is it? What do your higher education centers specialise in? Are you capable of at least detailing the curriculum for both?

[qoute author=Don B]What are the names of these two colleges you chair?[/quote]

[qoute author=Tom Bishop]I'm not keen on being stalked.[/quote]

Grand claims and lack of proof = Conspiracy, lies and misinformation. Isn't that the FE stance against RE and all its supporters/believers?
« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 11:53:15 AM by Don B »

*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 18033
  • +6/-9
Re: Idea: Start a University
« Reply #70 on: December 04, 2009, 12:20:21 PM »
And I'm not keen on reading your grand claims to high office. *shrugs*

If you don't want people to know you're the president of two colleges then don't tell them.

If you do want them to know then you shouldn't have a problem with naming them.

Why would I want to name them?

Are you a citizen?

Why don't you give us your name, address, and social security number? You claim to be a citizen, right?

Quote
Mr. Bishop, I never said they did either. Please don't resort to strawman arguments. What I stated (and now have to condense for you) was that science is the process of learning. You said that science doesn't progress from debates. And yet, you claim a process of "Learning by Debate".

I didn't say science was the process of learning.

I bet my little nephew learned a lot from his "the little book of fishes" bedtime book. Was he conducting science?

I said that science progresses through the schools. Science can only move forward if new research and trials are being added. New science tends to only come from research universities like Harvard with billion dollar endowments.

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • 45169
  • +98/-138
Re: Idea: Start a University
« Reply #71 on: December 04, 2009, 02:37:49 PM »
I would love to enroll. It would be especially beneficial for medical students because of the long term arrogance and mentality that western medicine is flawless. Having a zetetic outlook would help any biologist.

Who said that western medicine is flawless?  ???
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

?

Thermal Detonator

  • 3125
  • +0/-0
  • Definitively the best avatar maker.
Re: Idea: Start a University
« Reply #72 on: December 04, 2009, 02:46:21 PM »
Actually I've changed my mind about this university. I think it's still a good idea but Bishop should not be allowed out from behind the McDonald's counter to go teach there.
Gayer doesn't live in an atmosphere of vaporised mustard like you appear to, based on your latest photo.

*

Ichimaru Gin :]

  • Undefeated FEer
  • Planar Moderator
  • 8880
  • +3/-3
  • Semper vigilans
Re: Idea: Start a University
« Reply #73 on: December 04, 2009, 03:25:04 PM »
I would love to enroll. It would be especially beneficial for medical students because of the long term arrogance and mentality that western medicine is flawless. Having a zetetic outlook would help any biologist.

Who said that western medicine is flawless?  ???
Unfortunetly many biologists at big state schools always assume it as the only solution to illnesses.
I saw a slight haze in the hotel bathroom this morning after I took a shower, have I discovered a new planet?

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • 45169
  • +98/-138
Re: Idea: Start a University
« Reply #74 on: December 04, 2009, 03:27:14 PM »
I would love to enroll. It would be especially beneficial for medical students because of the long term arrogance and mentality that western medicine is flawless. Having a zetetic outlook would help any biologist.

Who said that western medicine is flawless?  ???
Unfortunetly many biologists at big state schools always assume it as the only solution to illnesses.
That's why people generally go to medical doctors when they're sick, not biologists.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

Ichimaru Gin :]

  • Undefeated FEer
  • Planar Moderator
  • 8880
  • +3/-3
  • Semper vigilans
Re: Idea: Start a University
« Reply #75 on: December 04, 2009, 03:29:52 PM »
I would love to enroll. It would be especially beneficial for medical students because of the long term arrogance and mentality that western medicine is flawless. Having a zetetic outlook would help any biologist.

Who said that western medicine is flawless?  ???
Unfortunetly many biologists at big state schools always assume it as the only solution to illnesses.
That's why people generally go to medical doctors when they're sick, not biologists.
Doctors are biologists  ::)
I saw a slight haze in the hotel bathroom this morning after I took a shower, have I discovered a new planet?

?

Thermal Detonator

  • 3125
  • +0/-0
  • Definitively the best avatar maker.
Re: Idea: Start a University
« Reply #76 on: December 04, 2009, 03:58:00 PM »
No they're not. That's like saying "paramedics are nurses" or "opticians are doctors".
Gayer doesn't live in an atmosphere of vaporised mustard like you appear to, based on your latest photo.

Re: Idea: Start a University
« Reply #77 on: December 04, 2009, 04:31:29 PM »
Actually I've changed my mind about this university. I think it's still a good idea but Bishop should not be allowed out from behind the McDonald's counter to go teach there.
Says the dude whos named after a star trek item

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • 45169
  • +98/-138
Re: Idea: Start a University
« Reply #78 on: December 04, 2009, 05:01:24 PM »
Actually I've changed my mind about this university. I think it's still a good idea but Bishop should not be allowed out from behind the McDonald's counter to go teach there.
Says the dude whos named after a star trek wars item
*sigh*
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

?

Don B

Re: Idea: Start a University
« Reply #79 on: December 04, 2009, 05:12:45 PM »
Actually I've changed my mind about this university. I think it's still a good idea but Bishop should not be allowed out from behind the McDonald's counter to go teach there.
Says the dude whos named after a star trek item

So says the guy who can't tell Star Trek from Star Wars, even when presented with a pretty picture.

I'm still waiting for Mr. Bishop to address the points I've raised. His first response was to presume I'm a stalker and I'm eager to see what's next.

*

Ichimaru Gin :]

  • Undefeated FEer
  • Planar Moderator
  • 8880
  • +3/-3
  • Semper vigilans
Re: Idea: Start a University
« Reply #80 on: December 05, 2009, 07:07:25 AM »
No they're not. That's like saying "paramedics are nurses" or "opticians are doctors".
???lol
I saw a slight haze in the hotel bathroom this morning after I took a shower, have I discovered a new planet?

?

Mookie89

  • 1325
  • +0/-0
  • Artilles is a goddess
Re: Idea: Start a University
« Reply #81 on: December 05, 2009, 08:04:32 PM »
No they're not. That's like saying "paramedics are nurses" or "opticians are doctors".
???lol

That makes perfect sense. You said doctors are biologists, which they are not.
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Ugh ugh! Ugh nug nug ugh!

It's fourteen French social dances past the hour.

Re: Idea: Start a University
« Reply #82 on: December 06, 2009, 02:13:39 AM »
I can think of two very good reasons why Tom might be reluctant to name the colleges of which he claims to be president.

1.  They don't exist.

or

2.  He wants to avoid being investigated by law enforcement officials and exposed as a scam artist running fraudulant diploma mills.

*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 18033
  • +6/-9
Re: Idea: Start a University
« Reply #83 on: December 06, 2009, 02:36:15 AM »
Actually an illegal diploma mill is really only a place which sells degrees, although some people mistakenly extend it to the places which exchange degrees for a little work. Plenty of Regionally Accredited colleges give out degrees for very little work on part of the student.

See Charter Oak and Excelsior who give out degrees for under three hours of "course work".

http://forums.degreeinfo.com/archive/index.php/t-1213.html
« Last Edit: December 06, 2009, 02:38:57 AM by Tom Bishop »

?

Don B

Re: Idea: Start a University
« Reply #84 on: December 06, 2009, 07:24:16 AM »
Actually an illegal diploma mill is really only a place which sells degrees, although some people mistakenly extend it to the places which exchange degrees for a little work. Plenty of Regionally Accredited colleges give out degrees for very little work on part of the student.

See Charter Oak and Excelsior who give out degrees for under three hours of "course work".

http://forums.degreeinfo.com/archive/index.php/t-1213.html

Hmmm - The old changing subjects tactic. Perhaps this will cover up your grand claims and inconsistent ramblings.

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • 45169
  • +98/-138
Re: Idea: Start a University
« Reply #85 on: December 06, 2009, 10:11:07 AM »
Actually an illegal diploma mill is really only a place which sells degrees, although some people mistakenly extend it to the places which exchange degrees for a little work. Plenty of Regionally Accredited colleges give out degrees for very little work on part of the student.

See Charter Oak and Excelsior who give out degrees for under three hours of "course work".

http://forums.degreeinfo.com/archive/index.php/t-1213.html

I believe that you're referring to "credit for experience".
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

?

Rapier09

  • 60
  • +0/-0
Re: Idea: Start a University
« Reply #86 on: December 06, 2009, 01:11:54 PM »
It could be done if we had the right amount of capital to get it started.It would have to be set up so as to waste said capital and it would have to pay for itself.I assume we'd have to get government subsidies at some point to keep it going.

Best thing to do would be to make the subject more approachable such as getting students to study "Alternate global visions".There wouldn't be that much interest in getting a degree in Flat Earth Science but there might be some interest in studying the views that underpin that theory.

?

LiceFarm

  • 540
  • +0/-0
Re: Idea: Start a University
« Reply #87 on: December 06, 2009, 04:36:30 PM »
although some people mistakenly extend it to the places which exchange degrees for a little work.

Is that something you do at your colleges?

*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 18033
  • +6/-9
Re: Idea: Start a University
« Reply #88 on: December 06, 2009, 05:11:08 PM »
although some people mistakenly extend it to the places which exchange degrees for a little work.

Is that something you do at your colleges?

No. Colleges actually make more money collecting on tuition the longer they keep their students. While there are educational models which can compress an entire degree program into a day's worth of work (Competency based learning and Prior Learning Assessment), short term programs aren't nearly as profitable for the college as longer term programs.

It's part of the reason why Harvard makes more per annum than General Motors and why the University of Phoenix is a billion dollar business.

?

Mookie89

  • 1325
  • +0/-0
  • Artilles is a goddess
Re: Idea: Start a University
« Reply #89 on: December 06, 2009, 05:15:18 PM »
although some people mistakenly extend it to the places which exchange degrees for a little work.

Is that something you do at your colleges?

No. Colleges actually make more money collecting on tuition the longer they keep their students. While there are educational models which can compress an entire degree program into a day's worth of work (Competency based learning and Prior Learning Assessment), short term programs aren't nearly as profitable for the college as longer term programs.

It's part of the reason why Harvard makes more per annum than General Motors and why the University of Phoenix is a billion dollar business.

Is it really true that you would sell your grandmother in order to win an argument?
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Ugh ugh! Ugh nug nug ugh!

It's fourteen French social dances past the hour.