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If the earth is flat... explain GPS

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Mironic

If the earth is flat... explain GPS
« on: November 19, 2009, 01:47:59 PM »
Gps works off satalites... but in your "facts" satalites cant be in space for more then a few days...

so then why... is it my gps has bin turned on and hasent reseted for about a mounth now...

also my satalite tv... its works off of satalite...

GLobal positioning systems and devices based of the round earth

so if it were flat .... how would it make a round earth from coords?

please give me NO MUMBO JUMBO about magic :3
or that the goverment is screwing with out devices and pictures...

cuz on a plain from Canada to Australia i flew over "ant artica" with my gps it showed me a red dot... going around tot he other side of the glob and it took about 12 hours to reach it.... if your theorys were true... it owuld take 3 days to reach australia :3 this prooving your points wrong... comeon... you guys... wtf? flat? if it was flat it would easly be broken by the me
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IAMSAM

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Re: If the earth is flat... explain GPS
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2009, 02:24:55 PM »
lurk moar
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Mironic

Re: If the earth is flat... explain GPS
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2009, 02:29:33 PM »
i read all of F.A.Q and the other one...

but i could not read up on how GPS is explained...

so u explain it -.-
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basketguy15

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Re: If the earth is flat... explain GPS
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2009, 06:51:06 PM »
It has been answered, I can't remember exactly what they said, all I remember was it was dumb.  This site isn't bad, all they do is challenge conventional thought which what we should all do from time to time.  This isn't one of those times, but I like the idea behind their campaign.   
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ShnitzelKiller

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Re: If the earth is flat... explain GPS
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2009, 10:22:49 PM »
They propose that the ENTIRE thing, from the supposed satellite transmissions to the layout of the map itself, is a lie and part of the Conspiracy.
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Delusional Pancake

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Re: If the earth is flat... explain GPS
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2009, 07:41:11 AM »
Actually, GPS would be the least of FEs worries regarding this matter.

We are talking about some thousands of satellites, operated both by governments of more than 50 different countries around the world and private business, . And used by more than 2 billion ppl atm for almost anything...XD

GPS validity is actually a most insignificant factor in the debate...especially since GPS acts only as a sender of information, whereas there are thousands of satellites ppl are sending info to, and thus know where exactly they are...^^
« Last Edit: November 21, 2009, 07:46:20 AM by Delusional Pancake »
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EireEngineer

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Re: If the earth is flat... explain GPS
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2009, 07:59:14 AM »
Yeah, I wish just once for a FEer to try to operate a MST-20 TACSAT in a location where there could not possibly any broadcast towers....like I did in the middle of Saudi Arabia.  It might give them a clue that there are indeed satellites up there, lol.
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Crustinator

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Re: If the earth is flat... explain GPS
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2009, 08:21:28 AM »
There's a huge GPS thread.

I'm pretty sure all cases and submissions were covered, and that in the end GPS was explained by "it must work because we know the earth is flat".
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Johannes

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Re: If the earth is flat... explain GPS
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2009, 01:23:27 PM »
Quote from: EireEngineer on November 21, 2009, 07:59:14 AM
Yeah, I wish just once for a FEer to try to operate a MST-20 TACSAT in a location where there could not possibly any broadcast towers....like I did in the middle of Saudi Arabia.  It might give them a clue that there are indeed satellites up there, lol.
Why couldn't there be towers there?
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EireEngineer

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Re: If the earth is flat... explain GPS
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2009, 01:41:16 PM »
Quote from: Johannes on November 21, 2009, 01:23:27 PM
Quote from: EireEngineer on November 21, 2009, 07:59:14 AM
Yeah, I wish just once for a FEer to try to operate a MST-20 TACSAT in a location where there could not possibly any broadcast towers....like I did in the middle of Saudi Arabia.  It might give them a clue that there are indeed satellites up there, lol.
Why couldn't there be towers there?
Because I didnt see any anywhere in the middle of the oil field. Mmmm, also the fact that I couldnt get a signal unless it was pointed at an angle far exceeding anything you could get LOS.
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Johannes

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Re: If the earth is flat... explain GPS
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2009, 10:42:51 PM »
Quote from: EireEngineer on November 21, 2009, 01:41:16 PM
Quote from: Johannes on November 21, 2009, 01:23:27 PM
Quote from: EireEngineer on November 21, 2009, 07:59:14 AM
Yeah, I wish just once for a FEer to try to operate a MST-20 TACSAT in a location where there could not possibly any broadcast towers....like I did in the middle of Saudi Arabia.  It might give them a clue that there are indeed satellites up there, lol.
Why couldn't there be towers there?
Because I didnt see any anywhere in the middle of the oil field. Mmmm, also the fact that I couldnt get a signal unless it was pointed at an angle far exceeding anything you could get LOS.
Have any proof?
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parsec

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Re: If the earth is flat... explain GPS
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2009, 11:19:53 PM »
Quote from: Delusional Pancake on November 21, 2009, 07:41:11 AM
Actually, GPS would be the least of FEs worries regarding this matter.

We are talking about some thousands of satellites, operated both by governments of more than 50 different countries around the world and private business, . And used by more than 2 billion ppl atm for almost anything...XD

GPS validity is actually a most insignificant factor in the debate...especially since GPS acts only as a sender of information, whereas there are thousands of satellites ppl are sending info to, and thus know where exactly they are...^^

If there is a satellite launched every month, then it would take 1000 months > 83 years to launche 1000 satellites. This means the first satellite had to be launched before 1926. As far as I know, the first satellite, called Sputnik, was supposedly launched on October 4th, 1957.
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markjo

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Re: If the earth is flat... explain GPS
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2009, 11:30:43 PM »
Quote from: parsec on November 21, 2009, 11:19:53 PM
If there is a satellite launched every month, then it would take 1000 months > 83 years to launche 1000 satellites. This means the first satellite had to be launched before 1926. As far as I know, the first satellite, called Sputnik, was supposedly launched on October 4th, 1957.
Who said that there is only one satellite launched a month?  Depending on the satellites and the orbital parameters, it's not unusual to launch several satellites using one booster.
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parsec

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Re: If the earth is flat... explain GPS
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2009, 11:32:39 PM »
Quote from: markjo on November 21, 2009, 11:30:43 PM
Quote from: parsec on November 21, 2009, 11:19:53 PM
If there is a satellite launched every month, then it would take 1000 months > 83 years to launche 1000 satellites. This means the first satellite had to be launched before 1926. As far as I know, the first satellite, called Sputnik, was supposedly launched on October 4th, 1957.
Who said that there is only one satellite launched a month?  Depending on the satellites and the orbital parameters, it's not unusual to launch several satellites using one booster.
But, how many launches per year are there? And he said thousands.
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markjo

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Re: If the earth is flat... explain GPS
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2009, 11:50:37 PM »
Quote from: parsec on November 21, 2009, 11:32:39 PM
But, how many launches per year are there?  And he said thousands.
By which agency?  Satellite launching is probably a bigger industry than you might think.  Here is a link to the current world wide satellite launch schedule: http://spaceflightnow.com/tracking/index.html
And here is a link to an archive of past significant satellite launches (not a comprehensive list, however): http://www.satnews.com/launch_history.shtml
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Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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parsec

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Re: If the earth is flat... explain GPS
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2009, 12:05:47 AM »
By counting the number of satellites from the archival website you provided, I obtained the following list (maybe I made some counting mistake):
200626
200524
200417
200323
200229
200114
200033
199927
199832
199735

That sums to 260 satellites in 10 years, which would give 1000 satellites in 39 years, giving a start year of 1968. So, his statement that there are supposed to be thousands satellites is a bit overestimated.
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Delusional Pancake

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Re: If the earth is flat... explain GPS
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2009, 02:37:07 AM »
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The number of operational satellites (that we have data access to that is, the actual number is significantly bigger) at this point is more than 900.  Here is a comprehensive list, together with info about the actual orbits.

http://www.ucsusa.org/assets/documents/nwgs/UCSSatelliteDatabase10_1_09.xls

The number of satellites and other objects sent to orbit from the 50s onwards is more than 10 times that...
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EireEngineer

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Re: If the earth is flat... explain GPS
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2009, 08:27:22 AM »
I hope that you guys are factoring in that one launch vehicle can carry multiple payloads in to orbit, so its not one launch-one satellite.
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markjo

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Re: If the earth is flat... explain GPS
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2009, 08:56:55 AM »
Quote from: parsec on November 22, 2009, 12:05:47 AM
By counting the number of satellites from the archival website you provided, I obtained the following list (maybe I made some counting mistake):

Or, maybe you missed the part where I said that it was not a comprehensive list. 
Quote from: http://www.satnews.com/launch_history.shtml
Launch History of Significant Satellites

There could be any number of less significant satellites, including a rather large number of pieces of space debris (many of which are tracked by NORAD and can be technically counted as satellites).
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parsec

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Re: If the earth is flat... explain GPS
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2009, 09:25:38 AM »
Quote from: Delusional Pancake on November 22, 2009, 02:37:07 AM
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The number of operational satellites (that we have data access to that is, the actual number is significantly bigger) at this point is more than 900.  Here is a comprehensive list, together with info about the actual orbits.

http://www.ucsusa.org/assets/documents/nwgs/UCSSatelliteDatabase10_1_09.xls

The number of satellites and other objects sent to orbit from the 50s onwards is more than 10 times that...

you should also tell us an upper bound. Because 999 is more than 900, but it's not thousands and 1,000,000 is also more than 900 but it's also not considered thousands.

Quote from: EireEngineer on November 22, 2009, 08:27:22 AM
I hope that you guys are factoring in that one launch vehicle can carry multiple payloads in to orbit, so its not one launch-one satellite.

Yes. I was counting the satellites, not the launch vehicles.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2009, 09:27:23 AM by parsec »
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Delusional Pancake

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Re: If the earth is flat... explain GPS
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2009, 09:36:28 AM »
Well general space debris is not useful for estimating the number of satellites.

NORAD gives 28.000 known objects launched into orbit from the start of the space era, most of them are either non operational now, or have reentered the atmosphere. Again, that is the number of known objects, not the total (during the cold war thousands of satellites were put in orbit without announcements or archiving. Many of them were disguised as secondary loads in known satellite launches).

parsec, the upper bound is presumably around 50k satellites and microsatellites in all orbits since the start of the space age. Thats definitely thousands...
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parsec

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Re: If the earth is flat... explain GPS
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2009, 09:49:27 AM »
The space era supposedly started on October 4, 1957. That is 347,555 days until today, or with the same accuracy 350k days. You said 50k satellites have been lauched. That gives 7 satellites per day. I find this highly improbable.
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EireEngineer

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Re: If the earth is flat... explain GPS
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2009, 10:01:24 AM »
Quote from: parsec on November 22, 2009, 09:49:27 AM
The space era supposedly started on October 4, 1957. That is 347,555 days until today, or with the same accuracy 350k days. You said 50k satellites have been lauched. That gives 7 satellites per day. I find this highly improbable.
I cant find any place where someone said there were 50,000 satellites. I too would find that improbable. I did find where he said operated by 50 countries. Is there some confusion here?
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Re: If the earth is flat... explain GPS
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2009, 10:02:29 AM »
Quote from: Delusional Pancake on November 22, 2009, 09:36:28 AM
Well general space debris is not useful for estimating the number of satellites.

NORAD gives 28.000 known objects launched into orbit from the start of the space era, most of them are either non operational now, or have reentered the atmosphere. Again, that is the number of known objects, not the total (during the cold war thousands of satellites were put in orbit without announcements or archiving. Many of them were disguised as secondary loads in known satellite launches).

parsec, the upper bound is presumably around 50k satellites and microsatellites in all orbits since the start of the space age. Thats definitely thousands...
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EireEngineer

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Re: If the earth is flat... explain GPS
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2009, 10:06:56 AM »
Quote from: parsec on November 22, 2009, 10:02:29 AM
Quote from: Delusional Pancake on November 22, 2009, 09:36:28 AM
Well general space debris is not useful for estimating the number of satellites.

NORAD gives 28.000 known objects launched into orbit from the start of the space era, most of them are either non operational now, or have reentered the atmosphere. Again, that is the number of known objects, not the total (during the cold war thousands of satellites were put in orbit without announcements or archiving. Many of them were disguised as secondary loads in known satellite launches).

parsec, the upper bound is presumably around 50k satellites and microsatellites in all orbits since the start of the space age. Thats definitely thousands...
Stupid ctl-f... it couldnt find it, lol.  Thanks.  I wonder if that includes boosters and other debris?
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Delusional Pancake

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Re: If the earth is flat... explain GPS
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2009, 10:09:07 AM »
Well as I said, officially NORAD gives about ~35k sent to orbit. If you factor in the "black ones", you might get as high as a 50k upper limit. Again, thats an upper limit, nobody knows the exact amount.

A way to check this out is via the SCN that NORAD gives

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_Catalog_Number

We are currently at 35k and counting, without the "black" ones in of course...
« Last Edit: November 22, 2009, 10:34:13 AM by Delusional Pancake »
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Re: If the earth is flat... explain GPS
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2009, 10:10:55 AM »
lol. noone noticed my error in calculation. it's 7 days per satellite even with the upper bound, not 7 satellites per day. gb24thgrade.
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EireEngineer

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Re: If the earth is flat... explain GPS
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2009, 10:23:26 AM »
is that with only 1 sattelite per launch, because as I said there are usually multiple payloads per launch.
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parsec

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Re: If the earth is flat... explain GPS
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2009, 02:09:56 PM »
that's counting the total number of satellites with multiple payloads per lunch assumed. the actual number of launches cannot be 50k because clearly you don't see a rocket being laucned each week.
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markjo

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Re: If the earth is flat... explain GPS
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2009, 05:45:23 PM »
Quote from: parsec on November 22, 2009, 02:09:56 PM
that's counting the total number of satellites with multiple payloads per lunch assumed. the actual number of launches cannot be 50k because clearly you don't see a rocket being laucned each week.

He said that 50K was an upper limit, not the actual number.  There are so many agencies launching satellites that I'm not sure if anyone has actually kept track of every single satellite ever launched.  NORAD keeps track of all the satellites currently in orbit, as well as as much of the space junk that they can.

This link may help: http://www.universetoday.com/guide-to-space/spaceflight/how-many-satellites-in-space/
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