James's theory on dinosaurs

Quote from: EnglshGentleman on March 14, 2011, 11:46:37 AM

Irrelevant. Finding the actual brain is not required in brain allometry or rating a species EQ.

Quote from: EnglshGentleman on March 11, 2011, 10:48:49 PM

we can understand the cognitive capacity of ancient dinosaur brains because we understand neurology

Sorry, since when are either of those regarded as neurology?

Really? Because neurology is study of how the brain functions?

Quote from: EnglshGentleman on March 14, 2011, 11:46:37 AM

When have I stated they cannot be as intellegent as modern dinosaurs? I am saying that they most likely are not drastically more intellegent than the modern dinosaurs.

Based on what? All I've seen are non sequiturs and poorly phrased conjecture. Furthermore, even if we assume that they aren't "drastically more intelligent than . . . modern dinosaurs", I don't see how that problematizes the theory. How about a cogent argument?

Do explain.

Quote from: EnglshGentleman on March 14, 2011, 11:46:37 AM

As Markjo has pointed out, it has yet to be proven that modern avian dinosaurs can build "boats".

I don't think anyone here claims to have proven anything, and I don't think anyone claims that definitive proof is possible.

 

Yes, but you have not given any reason to think that dinosaurs building boats is even reasonably plausible. Your entire "evidence" as to justify migrating dinosaurs over continental drift is "because you cannot prove they didn't do it".

That is not a valid argument.

Furthermore, contemporary dinosaurs do not need need boats, as they are the dinosauric embodiment of the Nietzschean ?bermensch; a race that has overcome itself, and acheived the synthesis of Apollonian and Dionysian being through contemplation and construction, song and dance. That they do not build boats does not indicate that they cannot build boats, but rather that they do not want or need to build boats. That they possess the capacity to build boat-like structures and far more complex architecture is clear, as is the existence of a dinosauric culture and aesthetic.

What the hell?

 

Quote from: Lord Wilmore on March 14, 2011, 03:22:48 PM

Sorry, since when are either of those regarded as neurology?

Really? Because neurology is study of how the brain functions?

I'm not sure if this is an answer in the form of a question or just a question. In any event, neurology is not the study of how the brain functions (though that is an aspect of it), and studying how the brain functions is not the same as studying the size/allometry of brains, or (more to the point) the size of skulls.

Do explain.

Explain? Your arguments don't make sense. See above for an example.

Yes, but you have not given any reason to think that dinosaurs building boats is even reasonably plausible. Your entire "evidence" as to justify migrating dinosaurs over continental drift is "because you cannot prove they didn't do it".

That is not a valid argument.

We have also presented a wealth of evidence that dinosaurs possess the necessary faculties to engage in the building of complex structures, including many that are buoyant. Indeed, I imagine almost everyone here has observed the fruits of dinosauric labour at some point in their lives. Moreover, a range of studies have concluded that dinosaurs are amongst the most intelligent of all living creatures, and that they possess remarkable problem-solving ability. This makes it more than "remotely plausible" that they could build ocean-going vessels. Stop leaving out the bits you don't like.

Quote from: Lord Wilmore on March 14, 2011, 03:22:48 PM

Furthermore, contemporary dinosaurs do not need need boats, as they are the dinosauric embodiment of the Nietzschean ?bermensch; a race that has overcome itself, and acheived the synthesis of Apollonian and Dionysian being through contemplation and construction, song and dance. That they do not build boats does not indicate that they cannot build boats, but rather that they do not want or need to build boats. That they possess the capacity to build boat-like structures and far more complex architecture is clear, as is the existence of a dinosauric culture and aesthetic.

What the hell?

 

1. Read a book.

2. Look out your window.

3. Failing that, pick up a David Attenborough box-set.

We have also presented a wealth of evidence that dinosaurs possess the necessary faculties to engage in the building of complex structures...

I'm sorry, but I've missed this, could you link me to the wealth of evidence please?

Furthermore, contemporary dinosaurs do not need need boats, as they are the dinosauric embodiment of the Nietzschean ?bermensch; a race that has overcome itself, and acheived the synthesis of Apollonian and Dionysian being through contemplation and construction, song and dance. That they do not build boats does not indicate that they cannot build boats, but rather that they do not want or need to build boats. That they possess the capacity to build boat-like structures and far more complex architecture is clear, as is the existence of a dinosauric culture and aesthetic.

This is truly excellent.

After sixty pages, this thread is quite frankly laughable.  You have done nothing but make baseless assumptions and wildly extrapolate.

There is not a single shred of reputable evidence that dinosaurs were anything but wild animals, and not a single qualified geologist who would support your claims.

Review the physical evidence, then come back and theorise.

We have also presented a wealth of evidence that dinosaurs possess the necessary faculties to engage in the building of complex structures, including many that are buoyant. Indeed, I imagine almost everyone here has observed the fruits of dinosauric labour at some point in their lives. Moreover, a range of studies have concluded that dinosaurs are amongst the most intelligent of all living creatures, and that they possess remarkable problem-solving ability. This makes it more than "remotely plausible" that they could build ocean-going vessels. Stop leaving out the bits you don't like.

Where did you represent such evidence? Do you have ancient fossilized crafts capable of carrying several ton dinosaurs?

So modern dinosaurs can build boat-like structures. How is that evidence that their ancestors could?

You are making completely baseless conclusions just because it supports your theory.

Your logic is tantamount to saying:

Humans can build helicopters, therefore, that must mean that Maelestes Gobiensis (A 70 million year old ancestor) must have been capable of doing this too. After all, us humans are really just modern shrew people! These shrews no doubt also had an advanced society, and had thinkers likened to Nietzsche and Socrates! It also conclusively appears to me that these shrews made mosaics of the people they venerated. These mosaics could have been crafted from stones, just like how we do today. I see no reason why you doubt the shrews could not have done these things, you have no evidence to the contrary!

After sixty pages, this thread is quite frankly laughable.  You have done nothing but make baseless assumptions and wildly extrapolate.

There is not a single shred of reputable evidence that dinosaurs were anything but wild animals, and not a single qualified geologist who would support your claims.

Review the physical evidence, then come back and theorise.

You should bear in mind that this is, in fact, not serious business.

don't feed the trolls.

There's no way a sane individual could actually think that we have so much data on the thought power of dinos

don't feed the trolls.

Who's trolling?

There's no way a sane individual could actually think that we have so much data on the thought power of dinos

Oh. You're trolling.

Quote from: Thevoiceofreason on March 14, 2011, 09:41:18 PM

don't feed the trolls.

Who's trolling?

Quote from: Thevoiceofreason on March 14, 2011, 09:41:18 PM

There's no way a sane individual could actually think that we have so much data on the thought power of dinos

Oh. You're trolling.

So tell me, what evidence do you have that Dino's have that kind of intellect?

ITT: Data == evidence.
Only not really.

Quote from: Lord Wilmore on March 14, 2011, 04:35:49 PM

We have also presented a wealth of evidence that dinosaurs possess the necessary faculties to engage in the building of complex structures, including many that are buoyant.

Where did you represent such evidence? Do you have ancient fossilized crafts capable of carrying several ton dinosaurs?

Such evidence has been presented in this topic time and time again, including over the last few pages. You need to pay more attention.

So modern dinosaurs can build boat-like structures. How is that evidence that their ancestors could?

Here we go again! Suddenly it's not okay to draw comparisons between modern dinosaurs and ancient dinosaurs, even though you were doing just that only a few posts ago! Make up your mind!

shrews no doubt also had an advanced society, and had thinkers likened to Nietzsche and Socrates!

I have not suggested that they had such thinkers, though of course it is entirely possible. I was simply analysing Dinosauric culture from a Nietzschean perspective.

This is truly excellent.

I'm glad you approve Brother. It is my intention to write an essay concerning the Apollinian and Dionysian aspects of Dinosauric culture, and the extent to which Dinosauric evolution can be equated or compared with the Nietzschean concept of the 'Overman'. My working title for this essay is The Bird of Tragedy: Dionysian Dinosaurs and the Great Overcoming.

Twilight of the Dinos?

Wilmore, or James. Judging by the structure of the average dinosaur, how do you suppose they created crafts or machines?
Its not as if they have opposable thumbs.

Twilight of the Dinos?

This would tie in well with the section on the how the great calamity which befell the Dinosaurs ultimately validated the Ubersaur (seen today as the modern bird). Gone were the great 'idols' of Dinosauric life and culture like Tyrannosaurus. What remained was the artistic, creative and life-embracing dinosaur; the sysnthesis of Apollinian and Dionysian (or Dinoysian) impulses.


And given that tumultuous change and disaster may once more face our great plane, we must ask whether the Dinosaur will survive and prosper, or will a new Ubersaur be required for the Dinosaur to embrace and triumph over the coming ages? We humans have much to learn from the Dinosaur's great overcoming of adversity, and our very survival may depend on our ability to mirror their acheivements.

Wilmore, or James. Judging by the structure of the average dinosaur, how do you suppose they created crafts or machines?
Its not as if they have opposable thumbs.

Corvid Dinosaurs have been observed to create tools, and most species of Dinosaur display some capacity to build and construct using wood and stone. And all this despite not having forearms! Without wings, the ancient dinosaurs would have had much greater scope (not to mention need) for tools, craft and artisanship.

Corvid Dinosaurs have been observed to create tools, and most species of Dinosaur display some capacity to build and construct using wood and stone.

Wilmore, there is a huge difference between creating tools and using tools.  Please show evidence of Corvid Dinosaurs actually creating tools as opposed to just using existing materials as tools.

Quote from: Lord Wilmore on March 15, 2011, 07:29:39 AM

Corvid Dinosaurs have been observed to create tools, and most species of Dinosaur display some capacity to build and construct using wood and stone.

Wilmore, there is a huge difference between creating tools and using tools.  Please show evidence of Corvid Dinosaurs actually creating tools as opposed to just using existing materials as tools.

Well they don't manufacturer tools today do they? How is Wilmore supposed to provide evidence? They have diversified into other lines of work nowadays.







You have a lot of explaining to do Markjo.

The line of argument is even more seriously flawed; modern dinosaurs can build boats.

And modern humans can build electronic computers, that has no bearing on what ancient men really did build.

Quote from: James on March 14, 2011, 04:44:49 AM

The line of argument is even more seriously flawed; modern dinosaurs can build boats.

And modern humans can build electronic computers, that has no bearing on what ancient men really did build.

I already tried to say this. Wilmore pretty much ignored it.

Quote from: Raist on March 15, 2011, 11:30:54 AM

Quote from: James on March 14, 2011, 04:44:49 AM

The line of argument is even more seriously flawed; modern dinosaurs can build boats.

And modern humans can build electronic computers, that has no bearing on what ancient men really did build.

I already tried to say this. Wilmore pretty much ignored it.

That's Wilmore for you, direct sensorial evidence unless it's inconvenient to his argument.

Quote from: James on March 14, 2011, 04:44:49 AM

The line of argument is even more seriously flawed; modern dinosaurs can build boats.

And modern humans can build electronic computers, that has no bearing on what ancient men really did build.

A boat is pretty different from a computer, Raist.

Quote from: Raist on March 15, 2011, 11:30:54 AM

Quote from: James on March 14, 2011, 04:44:49 AM

The line of argument is even more seriously flawed; modern dinosaurs can build boats.

And modern humans can build electronic computers, that has no bearing on what ancient men really did build.

A boat is pretty different from a computer, Raist.

In theory.

Quote from: James on March 15, 2011, 12:17:53 PM

Quote from: Raist on March 15, 2011, 11:30:54 AM

Quote from: James on March 14, 2011, 04:44:49 AM

The line of argument is even more seriously flawed; modern dinosaurs can build boats.

And modern humans can build electronic computers, that has no bearing on what ancient men really did build.

A boat is pretty different from a computer, Raist.

In theory.

Also in practice.

Wilmore, there is a huge difference between creating tools and using tools.  Please show evidence of Corvid Dinosaurs actually creating tools as opposed to just using existing materials as tools.

First of all, doesn't all tool use consist of using "existing materials" as tools? What exactly does this definition of tool creation mean, and on what basis do you make the distinction?

And modern humans can build electronic computers, that has no bearing on what ancient men really did build.

Yet it is quite common for scientists to assume that ancient man had similar faculties and capabilities to modern man. How now?

That's Wilmore for you, direct sensorial evidence unless it's inconvenient to his argument.

Nobody has presented any direct sensorial evidence that dinosaurs did not use tools or build boats, so I don't see what bearing this comment has on the discussion.

Well if nobody can provide direct sensorial evidence that dinosaurs didn't build boats, I guess we have no choice but to concede that they did. Well done, Lord Wilmore! Your victory is flawless.

By the way, why is this whole theory even necessary to begin with? Can't continental drift exist in FET?

Well if nobody can provide direct sensorial evidence that dinosaurs didn't build boats, I guess we have no choice but to concede that they did. Well done, Lord Wilmore! Your victory is flawless.

By the way, why is this whole theory even necessary to begin with? Can't continental drift exist in FET?

I don't believe so, but you'll have to ask James. He is the one who originally OD'd on acid and came up with the dinosaur societies.

Well if nobody can provide direct sensorial evidence that dinosaurs didn't build boats, I guess we have no choice but to concede that they did. Well done, Lord Wilmore! Your victory is flawless.

Wilmore is not asking for such concession.  He wants you to concede that they could have built boats.  I'm not sure how far James is presenting this, but just based on the last couple pages I'm quite certain that Wilmore isn't arguing that dinosaurs must have built boats.

By the way, why is this whole theory even necessary to begin with? Can't continental drift exist in FET?

James doesn't seem to think so; other FEers disagree.

And this is fine is it Roundy? You complete dick!

And this is fine is it Roundy? You complete dick!

Technically the dinosaur theory has something to do with FE because James claims that since there is no continental drift, the dinosaurs had to build boats and have colonies on other parts of the Earth. This is how he explains the same dinosaur bones in two different parts of the Earth. Stop crying.