The Lit Portion of the Earth Disagrees with FE.

So your answer, to everything that you can't answer, is; "Irrelevant"

Well done. It's quite clearly relevant to the discussion, you just don't like being wrong, so you're side-stepping the subject.

So, this hypothesis, that you don't believe in, that you have no proof, no shred of evidence for, is something you feel you should spend some time considering.

You're propping up one "hypothesis" with another "hypothesis"

Essentially, you are proposing that a mirror, of unknown origin, material and size, is being held up in the sky by an unknown force, for a seemingly irrelevant purpose. Am i correct?

Essentially, you are proposing that a mirror, of unknown origin, material and size, is being held up in the sky by an unknown force, for a seemingly irrelevant purpose. Am i correct?

No.

Well would you care to elaborate or correct me, or is this all just irrelevant.

You seem to be missing the point of a debate and discussion forum, you seem to lack the social skills to do either.

Well would you care to elaborate or correct me, or is this all just irrelevant.

You were correct up until the point where you claimed that my purpose was irrelevant.

What are you guys even going on about?

Okay, so if the sky mirror is as large as the Earth, wouldn't it reflect light back on the entire Earth?  And wouldn't we be able to see the ground in the sky?  It would have to change shape to light up different parts of the at different times of the year, because the sun moving doesn't really explain it at all.

Okay, so if the sky mirror is as large as the Earth, wouldn't it reflect light back on the entire Earth?  And wouldn't we be able to see the ground in the sky?  It would have to change shape to light up different parts of the at different times of the year, because the sun moving doesn't really explain it at all.

No; it is probably an ellipsoidal mirror, so that when the Sun is at one focus, a particular point on the surface of the Earth is at the other and light is mostly reflected to that point and those around it. For this reason, light from the Earth is focused onto the Sun, but by the time it gets back down to Earth it has become so unfocused that it blends in with the blue background of the sky, so we don't see the ground reflected.

Quote from: Ejak2021 on October 29, 2009, 09:11:24 AM

Okay, so if the sky mirror is as large as the Earth, wouldn't it reflect light back on the entire Earth?  And wouldn't we be able to see the ground in the sky?  It would have to change shape to light up different parts of the at different times of the year, because the sun moving doesn't really explain it at all.

No; it is probably an ellipsoidal mirror, so that when the Sun is at one focus, a particular point on the surface of the Earth is at the other and light is mostly reflected to that point and those around it. For this reason, light from the Earth is focused onto the Sun, but by the time it gets back down to Earth it has become so unfocused that it blends in with the blue background of the sky, so we don't see the ground reflected.

When is the next fly by of the anti-sun so that when the next solar eclipse happens I can know where to be so I can see the back side of the sun reflected in the sky mirror?

And wouldn't bendy light have bendy'd the reflected light of the ground out of the way anyhow so no one could see it?

This must be an amazing mirror to only reflect sunlight, but not sunlight reflected off the moon and not block out any other object behind it and focus light and also not be affected by the thermal gradient of the mirror in space and not distort its shape, unless its shape is distorted in an exact way in which bendy light would cancel out this distortion and reflect the sunlight exactly as predicted by space mirror/bendy light theory.

That is one impressive object.

When is the next fly by of the anti-sun so that when the next solar eclipse happens I can know where to be so I can see the back side of the sun reflected in the sky mirror?

What is an anti-sun?

And wouldn't bendy light have bendy'd the reflected light of the ground out of the way anyhow so no one could see it?

Not all of it.

This must be an amazing mirror to only reflect sunlight, but not sunlight reflected off the moon and not block out any other object behind it and focus light and also not be affected by the thermal gradient of the mirror in space and not distort its shape, unless its shape is distorted in an exact way in which bendy light would cancel out this distortion and reflect the sunlight exactly as predicted by space mirror/bendy light theory.

It reflects all light which falls upon it. Also, it does block out light from behind it; the stars are between us and the mirror.

Quote from: Ejak2021 on October 28, 2009, 09:53:28 PM

@ Parsifal:  I said "explain."  Okay technically, I asked what could explain, but would you mind explaining anyway?  This is Debate & Discussion.

There is a mirror in the sky which reflect sunlight onto the far side of the Earth during the southern summer.

So shouldnt there, at some point, be a location which can see two light sources?

So shouldnt there, at some point, be a location which can see two light sources?

Yes.

Quote from: markjo on October 29, 2009, 07:00:45 AM

So you admit that you don't believe anything that you are saying in this thread?

My beliefs are irrelevant in this thread.

If you don't believe what you are saying, then obviously that means that you are lying.  Thanks for clearing that up.

No; it is probably an ellipsoidal mirror, so that when the Sun is at one focus, a particular point on the surface of the Earth is at the other and light is mostly reflected to that point and those around it. For this reason, light from the Earth is focused onto the Sun, but by the time it gets back down to Earth it has become so unfocused that it blends in with the blue background of the sky, so we don't see the ground reflected.

Okay, so does it change shape?  Also, how high does you figure it to be?  And is this a natural object or did the Conspiracy make it so that exactly half of the Earth would be lit along a great circle path at any given time so that it would make sense with a round Earth?  Because, if it wasn't like that, it would definitely prove the Earth wasn't round.

If you don't believe what you are saying, then obviously that means that you are lying.  Thanks for clearing that up.

No.

Okay, so does it change shape?  Also, how high does you figure it to be?  And is this a natural object or did the Conspiracy make it so that exactly half of the Earth would be lit along a great circle path at any given time so that it would make sense with a round Earth?  Because, if it wasn't like that, it would definitely prove the Earth wasn't round.

As I have already stated, it does not change shape. I think I recall coming up with a figure of about 8 Mm for its altitude when I first came up with the idea, but I don't remember where that number came from. It is a natural object.

Quote from: EireEngineer on October 29, 2009, 09:50:34 AM

So shouldnt there, at some point, be a location which can see two light sources?

Yes.

So where exactly is this place with two suns in the sky? I want to go to there. lol

So where exactly is this place with two suns in the sky? I want to go to there. lol

Somewhere in Antarctica or the Southern Ocean, I should expect.

Pretty close to your neck of the woods there.  Send me a pic.

As I have already stated, it does not change shape. I think I recall coming up with a figure of about 8 Mm for its altitude when I first came up with the idea, but I don't remember where that number came from. It is a natural object.

How does it reflect light to completely different parts of the Earth at different times of the year?  The Sun doesn't move that much.  Enigma might have to make those animations. :/

During an equinox, it [the lit area of the Earth] is a semicircle.
In the Southern Summer, it's a ring (with a larger area on one side).  If the sky mirror stayed in the same orientation, the lit area would be the same general shape throughout the year.

Pretty close to your neck of the woods there.  Send me a pic.

Antarctica is close to where I live in the same sense that Greenland is close to Baltimore.

How does it reflect light to completely different parts of the Earth at different times of the year?  The Sun doesn't move that much.  Enigma might have to make those animations. :/

When the Sun is north of the Equator, almost none of the sunlight striking the mirror is focused on the Earth, and we are lit almost exclusively by direct sunlight. When the Sun is south of the Equator, it is closer to one focus of the ellipsoidal mirror, and the light is more directly focused onto the portion of the Ice Wall opposite the Sun.

During an equinox, it [the lit area of the Earth] is a semicircle.
In the Southern Summer, it's a ring (with a larger area on one side).  If the sky mirror stayed in the same orientation, the lit area would be the same general shape throughout the year.

No it would not, as described above.

Quote from: EireEngineer on October 29, 2009, 10:10:44 AM

Pretty close to your neck of the woods there.  Send me a pic.

Antarctica is close to where I live in the same sense that Greenland is close to Baltimore.

Ahh. but I thought distances were distorted in FE, so you should have no trouble.  Psssst....shipping covers the southern ocean and so far no claims of two suns.

Ahh. but I thought distances were distorted in FE, so you should have no trouble.  Psssst....shipping covers the southern ocean and so far no claims of two suns.

There would be a very small area which can see two images of the Sun at any one time, so it's not surprising that nobody has yet reported such observations. Also, distance per degree longitude is different in FET compared with RET, not latitude.

When the Sun is south of the Equator, it is closer to one focus of the ellipsoidal mirror, and the light is more directly focused onto the portion of the Ice Wall opposite the Sun.

Okay, but the entire Ice Wall would be lit up, I think.

Okay, but the entire Ice Wall would be lit up, I think.

No. I should perhaps be a bit more lucid in my description of the mirror; it is not perfectly ellipsoidal, rather, each azimuthal segment of the mirror is part of an ellipsoid with a focus somewhere on the other side of the Earth. The Sun is focused only onto the opposite side of the Ice Wall to the one it is currently nearest.

I love that for each bit of disproof of FET, the true believers have to add one more level of complexity to their model making it that much more improbable.

Quote from: Its a Sphere on October 29, 2009, 09:46:19 AM

When is the next fly by of the anti-sun so that when the next solar eclipse happens I can know where to be so I can see the back side of the sun reflected in the sky mirror?

What is an anti-sun?

What is an antimoon?

Regardless of whatever object would cause a solar eclipse, the back side of the sun would be visible in the mirror during the eclipse and I have yet to hear of such an event.

No. I should perhaps be a bit more lucid in my description of the mirror; it is not perfectly ellipsoidal, rather, each azimuthal segment of the mirror is part of an ellipsoid with a focus somewhere on the other side of the Earth. The Sun is focused only onto the opposite side of the Ice Wall to the one it is currently nearest.

No, I mean it is observed that the entire Ice Wall would be lit.  You can see in the .gif's on page 1, that during the winter solstice Antarctica is completely in daytime.  What would the Sun even look like in the sky?  The Southern sky in FE is really fudged up because you can look south and see the same thing on opposite sides of the disc.

I love that for each bit of disproof of FET, the true believers have to add one more level of complexity to their model making it that much more improbable.

Yeah, I'm gonna have to go into Spore and add a bunch of stuff to my Earthship.  Plus, I have to make a bunch of different ones because there is no 'one' FE model.

What is an antimoon?

It is the object that casts a shadow on the Moon during a lunar eclipse.

Regardless of whatever object would cause a solar eclipse, the back side of the sun would be visible in the mirror during the eclipse and I have yet to hear of such an event.

The Moon causes solar eclipses, and no, it would not.

It reflects all light which falls upon it. Also, it does block out light from behind it; the stars are between us and the mirror.

Then why no duplicate images of the stars and the moon?

No, I mean it is observed that the entire Ice Wall would be lit.  You can see in the .gif's on page 1, that during the winter solstice Antarctica is completely in daytime.  What would the Sun even look like in the sky?  The Southern sky in FE is really fudged up because you can look south and see the same thing on opposite sides of the disc.

Yes, and that observation is exactly what the Ice Wall hypothesis would predict. About half of it would be lit directly by the Sun, with the other half being lit by the sky mirror. Because the sky mirror focuses the light onto Earth, the Sun would appear to be in the sky - and, thanks to bendy light, it could appear quite close to the horizon, too, if the sky mirror were large enough.

Then why no duplicate images of the stars and the moon?

The same reason there are no observed duplicate images of the Sun, which I have already covered.