Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat?

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Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat?
« on: October 21, 2009, 12:30:06 PM »

      Please, just answer this 1 question. Okay? Here it is: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat? Just ANSWER it. And I don't want to hear: "Do u have any proof that the Earth is round?" No, I want to hear about the flat Earth. Some scientific proof not based on belief alone. And yes, it does look like the Earth is flat from my window, but I dont want to hear that either. Just give me some SMALL example of proof!!!!

       And also, you have no idea what the laws of gravity are because gravity pulls you to the center of the Earth, not the bottom, because there isn't one. The Earth is always rotating. Oh, and by the way, your belief on a "flat earth" seems to based primarily on the teachings, delusions, and misconceptions, of 1500's Europe. Get with the times!! And why would the government take the time to make everyone think the earth is round? Im sure they have more pressing matters. Well, thats all. PLEASE reply to my proof question. If you don't, hey thats just as good. Meaning you have no proof!!

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Dr Matrix

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Re: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2009, 12:47:41 PM »
Read the FAQ.
Quote from: Arthur Schopenhauer
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

Re: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2009, 12:54:17 PM »
 I have read the FAQ, it gave me no answers, and that is why Im asking on the forum. And still, no proof  ;D

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Dr Matrix

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Re: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2009, 12:57:09 PM »
You want proof the Earth is flat?  OK, walk from the North to the South Pole, turn 90 degrees on the spot, walk for 1.334 days, then turn 14.66 degrees anticlockwise.

You will now be facing the Ice Wall - if you walk in a straight line, you will find it.

Report back when you have this conclusive proof, it will help to settle a lot of debates.
Quote from: Arthur Schopenhauer
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

Re: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2009, 01:01:19 PM »
You want proof the Earth is flat?  OK, walk from the North to the South Pole, turn 90 degrees on the spot, walk for 1.334 days, then turn 14.66 degrees anticlockwise.

You will now be facing the Ice Wall - if you walk in a straight line, you will find it.

Report back when you have this conclusive proof, it will help to settle a lot of debates.

This is assuming that there is an ice wall. Which there isn't. Its just  Antarctica. So, do you have any proof there is even an ice wall? Do you have a picture perhaps?

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Dr Matrix

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Re: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2009, 01:04:50 PM »
This is assuming that there is an ice wall. Which there isn't. Its just  Antarctica.

Do you have any evidence for your outlandish claims?
Quote from: Arthur Schopenhauer
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

Re: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2009, 01:15:43 PM »


Do you have any evidence for your outlandish claims?


uh, yes actually. Satellite photos and people have actually been to Antarctica. And don't reply with how do you know the satellite images are fake. Has anyone ever even seen this "ice wall"? Oh, and how do you find my claims "outlandish"? Almost everybody but your small group of people knows the Earth is round.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2009, 01:18:49 PM by Paige868 »

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Dr Matrix

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Re: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2009, 02:23:32 PM »
uh, yes actually. Satellite photos and people have actually been to Antarctica. And don't reply with how do you know the satellite images are fake. Has anyone ever even seen this "ice wall"? Oh, and how do you find my claims "outlandish"? Almost everybody but your small group of people knows the Earth is round.

Antarctic is the landmass extending from the Ice Wall into the Southern oceans, they are not the same thing.  To my knowledge, no-one has ever been to the true Ice Wall due to its inaccessibility.

There are many threads showing how photographs can easily be faked, and why they are inadmissible as evidence here - please use the search function.

Finally, just because everyone 'knows' something, doesn't make it true.  Exhibit A: I direct your attention to mutually exclusive religions.
Quote from: Arthur Schopenhauer
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

Re: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2009, 04:51:57 PM »
As far as I've been able to tell, there is no hard proof.  There are however, several hypotheses floating around, some quite clever, some utterly ridiculous.

It doesn't help that all RE proof is dismissed for one reason or another...

(RE'er by the way)
BSc (Hons) Geology
Fellow of the Geological Society of London

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Supertails

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Re: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2009, 11:26:27 PM »
You want proof the Earth is flat?  OK, walk from the North to the South Pole, turn 90 degrees on the spot, walk for 1.334 days, then turn 14.66 degrees anticlockwise.

You will now be facing the Ice Wall - if you walk in a straight line, you will find it.

Report back when you have this conclusive proof, it will help to settle a lot of debates.
Why don't you get your own proof?  RE'ers shouldn't have to do this for you.  Unless, of course, you're simply afraid of the results you may get, and would rather tell other people to do it because you can hide behind the fact that you know they won't.  Either way, it's up to the FE'ers to prove FE.
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OmgHAI

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Re: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2009, 06:10:52 AM »

Quote
Why don't you get your own proof?  RE'ers shouldn't have to do this for you.  Unless, of course, you're simply afraid of the results you may get, and would rather tell other people to do it because you can hide behind the fact that you know they won't.  Either way, it's up to the FE'ers to prove FE.

Why should he get his own proof? You are the one that is so overwhelmed by the fact that some people believe differently than you. Im an RE'er and I think you are very ignorant to say its up to FE'ers to prove FE. Sure over time maybe. its said many times that FE is still being developed... If your so obsessed with the fact that they believe in FE than YOU prove it wrong.
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Trekky0623

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Re: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2009, 06:13:21 AM »

      Please, just answer this 1 question. Okay? Here it is: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat? Just ANSWER it. And I don't want to hear: "Do u have any proof that the Earth is round?" No, I want to hear about the flat Earth. Some scientific proof not based on belief alone. And yes, it does look like the Earth is flat from my window, but I dont want to hear that either. Just give me some SMALL example of proof!!!!

       And also, you have no idea what the laws of gravity are because gravity pulls you to the center of the Earth, not the bottom, because there isn't one. The Earth is always rotating. Oh, and by the way, your belief on a "flat earth" seems to based primarily on the teachings, delusions, and misconceptions, of 1500's Europe. Get with the times!! And why would the government take the time to make everyone think the earth is round? Im sure they have more pressing matters. Well, thats all. PLEASE reply to my proof question. If you don't, hey thats just as good. Meaning you have no proof!!

Look outside your window.  It looks flat.  Why would we have to prove something which is obvious, when the Round Earth Theory is the one that actually needs proof?  The Earth looks flat, therefore it's probably flat.

Re: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2009, 06:22:48 AM »

      Please, just answer this 1 question. Okay? Here it is: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat? Just ANSWER it. And I don't want to hear: "Do u have any proof that the Earth is round?" No, I want to hear about the flat Earth. Some scientific proof not based on belief alone. And yes, it does look like the Earth is flat from my window, but I dont want to hear that either. Just give me some SMALL example of proof!!!!

       And also, you have no idea what the laws of gravity are because gravity pulls you to the center of the Earth, not the bottom, because there isn't one. The Earth is always rotating. Oh, and by the way, your belief on a "flat earth" seems to based primarily on the teachings, delusions, and misconceptions, of 1500's Europe. Get with the times!! And why would the government take the time to make everyone think the earth is round? Im sure they have more pressing matters. Well, thats all. PLEASE reply to my proof question. If you don't, hey thats just as good. Meaning you have no proof!!

Look outside your window.  It looks flat.  Why would we have to prove something which is obvious, when the Round Earth Theory is the one that actually needs proof?  The Earth looks flat, therefore it's probably flat.

Round Earth Theory has been proven already. There is an insane amount of evidence for it. INSANE!!!!!! The FEs are the ones saying that they have a different theory and yet they provide NO scientific proof whatsoever to back up their claim. NONE AT ALL. Phony math and conspiracy theories are not proof of a FE. Things you can see yourself with your own eyes prove a RE. The phases of the planets, existence of satellites (you can look up and see them), http://www.heavens-above.com/ boatloads of photographic and video evidence (it can't ALL be fabricated, right?), the fact that we have a horizon, the movement of the planets, stars, and other heavenly bodies, Foucault Pendulums all over the world, flight times in the southern hemisphere match up with the RE model, the list goes on...

So I would say the REs have provided their fair share for the burden of proof, now where's the FE proof? Look out your window is the best I've seen.

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OmgHAI

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Re: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2009, 07:16:20 AM »

      Please, just answer this 1 question. Okay? Here it is: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat? Just ANSWER it. And I don't want to hear: "Do u have any proof that the Earth is round?" No, I want to hear about the flat Earth. Some scientific proof not based on belief alone. And yes, it does look like the Earth is flat from my window, but I dont want to hear that either. Just give me some SMALL example of proof!!!!

       And also, you have no idea what the laws of gravity are because gravity pulls you to the center of the Earth, not the bottom, because there isn't one. The Earth is always rotating. Oh, and by the way, your belief on a "flat earth" seems to based primarily on the teachings, delusions, and misconceptions, of 1500's Europe. Get with the times!! And why would the government take the time to make everyone think the earth is round? Im sure they have more pressing matters. Well, thats all. PLEASE reply to my proof question. If you don't, hey thats just as good. Meaning you have no proof!!

Look outside your window.  It looks flat.  Why would we have to prove something which is obvious, when the Round Earth Theory is the one that actually needs proof?  The Earth looks flat, therefore it's probably flat.

Round Earth Theory has been proven already. There is an insane amount of evidence for it. INSANE!!!!!! The FEs are the ones saying that they have a different theory and yet they provide NO scientific proof whatsoever to back up their claim. NONE AT ALL. Phony math and conspiracy theories are not proof of a FE. Things you can see yourself with your own eyes prove a RE. The phases of the planets, existence of satellites (you can look up and see them), http://www.heavens-above.com/ boatloads of photographic and video evidence (it can't ALL be fabricated, right?), the fact that we have a horizon, the movement of the planets, stars, and other heavenly bodies, Foucault Pendulums all over the world, flight times in the southern hemisphere match up with the RE model, the list goes on...

So I would say the REs have provided their fair share for the burden of proof, now where's the FE proof? Look out your window is the best I've seen.

I hate to say it but lurk moar. Most of the things you stated are explained here. I Personally don't believe FET but they have answers for most or possibly all the things you just stated. Don't be closed minded and just say "Look out your window is the best I've seen."
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You ravers are not nearly as awesome as you think you are.

Re: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2009, 07:32:02 AM »

      Please, just answer this 1 question. Okay? Here it is: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat? Just ANSWER it. And I don't want to hear: "Do u have any proof that the Earth is round?" No, I want to hear about the flat Earth. Some scientific proof not based on belief alone. And yes, it does look like the Earth is flat from my window, but I dont want to hear that either. Just give me some SMALL example of proof!!!!

       And also, you have no idea what the laws of gravity are because gravity pulls you to the center of the Earth, not the bottom, because there isn't one. The Earth is always rotating. Oh, and by the way, your belief on a "flat earth" seems to based primarily on the teachings, delusions, and misconceptions, of 1500's Europe. Get with the times!! And why would the government take the time to make everyone think the earth is round? Im sure they have more pressing matters. Well, thats all. PLEASE reply to my proof question. If you don't, hey thats just as good. Meaning you have no proof!!

Look outside your window.  It looks flat.  Why would we have to prove something which is obvious, when the Round Earth Theory is the one that actually needs proof?  The Earth looks flat, therefore it's probably flat.

Round Earth Theory has been proven already. There is an insane amount of evidence for it. INSANE!!!!!! The FEs are the ones saying that they have a different theory and yet they provide NO scientific proof whatsoever to back up their claim. NONE AT ALL. Phony math and conspiracy theories are not proof of a FE. Things you can see yourself with your own eyes prove a RE. The phases of the planets, existence of satellites (you can look up and see them), http://www.heavens-above.com/ boatloads of photographic and video evidence (it can't ALL be fabricated, right?), the fact that we have a horizon, the movement of the planets, stars, and other heavenly bodies, Foucault Pendulums all over the world, flight times in the southern hemisphere match up with the RE model, the list goes on...

So I would say the REs have provided their fair share for the burden of proof, now where's the FE proof? Look out your window is the best I've seen.

I hate to say it but lurk moar. Most of the things you stated are explained here. I Personally don't believe FET but they have answers for most or possibly all the things you just stated. Don't be closed minded and just say "Look out your window is the best I've seen."

Give me a break. I've seen all the proposed evidence, and it's all fake science and conspiracy theory. I'm done wasting my time with this nonsense. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

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OmgHAI

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Re: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2009, 07:59:49 AM »

Give me a break. I've seen all the proposed evidence, and it's all fake science and conspiracy theory. I'm done wasting my time with this nonsense. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

No ones making anyone believe in FET... Just people presenting their theories and beliefs and openly debating and discussing them. Honestly if anybody is pushing a belief it would be narrow minded RE'ers. Like I said before im an RE'er but im not immediately dismissing their claims because I blindly believe the earth is round. No matter how outrageous a claim is there is always some slight possibility that it is true.
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spanner34.5

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Re: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2009, 08:15:21 AM »

 You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
  This is a very interesting theory, Have you performed the experiment?

I cannot however see what connection it has to flat Earth theory.
My I.Q. is 85. Or was it 58?

Re: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2009, 09:18:42 AM »

      Please, just answer this 1 question. Okay? Here it is: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat? Just ANSWER it. And I don't want to hear: "Do u have any proof that the Earth is round?" No, I want to hear about the flat Earth. Some scientific proof not based on belief alone. And yes, it does look like the Earth is flat from my window, but I dont want to hear that either. Just give me some SMALL example of proof!!!!

       And also, you have no idea what the laws of gravity are because gravity pulls you to the center of the Earth, not the bottom, because there isn't one. The Earth is always rotating. Oh, and by the way, your belief on a "flat earth" seems to based primarily on the teachings, delusions, and misconceptions, of 1500's Europe. Get with the times!! And why would the government take the time to make everyone think the earth is round? Im sure they have more pressing matters. Well, thats all. PLEASE reply to my proof question. If you don't, hey thats just as good. Meaning you have no proof!!

Look outside your window.  It looks flat.  Why would we have to prove something which is obvious, when the Round Earth Theory is the one that actually needs proof?  The Earth looks flat, therefore it's probably flat.
It looks flat because the Earth is really big. You can still see the horizon though.
Explain space shuttles, where do they go when they take off?

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OmgHAI

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Re: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2009, 09:23:35 AM »

      Please, just answer this 1 question. Okay? Here it is: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat? Just ANSWER it. And I don't want to hear: "Do u have any proof that the Earth is round?" No, I want to hear about the flat Earth. Some scientific proof not based on belief alone. And yes, it does look like the Earth is flat from my window, but I dont want to hear that either. Just give me some SMALL example of proof!!!!

       And also, you have no idea what the laws of gravity are because gravity pulls you to the center of the Earth, not the bottom, because there isn't one. The Earth is always rotating. Oh, and by the way, your belief on a "flat earth" seems to based primarily on the teachings, delusions, and misconceptions, of 1500's Europe. Get with the times!! And why would the government take the time to make everyone think the earth is round? Im sure they have more pressing matters. Well, thats all. PLEASE reply to my proof question. If you don't, hey thats just as good. Meaning you have no proof!!

Look outside your window.  It looks flat.  Why would we have to prove something which is obvious, when the Round Earth Theory is the one that actually needs proof?  The Earth looks flat, therefore it's probably flat.
It looks flat because the Earth is really big. You can still see the horizon though.
Explain space shuttles, where do they go when they take off?
Accoding to FET Nasa and other space organizations are involved in a conspiracy. So space shuttle launches are staged events in which my guess would be that they launch and land somewhere short after
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markjo

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Re: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2009, 09:27:24 AM »
Look outside your window.  It looks flat.  Why would we have to prove something which is obvious, when the Round Earth Theory is the one that actually needs proof?  The Earth looks flat, therefore it's probably flat.

I live in a valley.  Hills all around me.  About the only flat earth that I can see out my window is the result of bulldozers and paving equipment.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2009, 09:37:41 AM »

 You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
  This is a very interesting theory, Have you performed the experiment?

I cannot however see what connection it has to flat Earth theory.

Perhaps not the best quote to use, but I'm trying to convey that I can show you the truth, but I can't make you say that it is true.

On another note, I've posted this in several forums and gotten no response from any FE'ers. Here's definitive proof of the RE. Satellites. You can look up in the sky and see them yourselves. I have seen them with my own eyes! This website tells you when and where to look. Concrete evidence that the Earth is round and we have shot things into orbit. http://www.heavens-above.com/

What crazy made up thing do you have to say to refute this?

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trig

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Re: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2009, 10:00:28 AM »
I hate to say it but lurk moar. Most of the things you stated are explained here. I Personally don't believe FET but they have answers for most or possibly all the things you just stated. Don't be closed minded and just say "Look out your window is the best I've seen."
I am sorry to say so, but you have to check your definition of "explaining". In science the only acceptable explanation is the one that leads to verifiable predictions, not the one that makes you exclaim "oh, now I finally understand".

For example, the explanations you hear in quantum physics are ugly and counter-intuitive, but they made our world of electronics possible. The nicer and more intuitive explanations where a particle and a wave are totally different phenomenons would have lead us to living in the 1920's forever.

How many of FE'rs "explanations" lead to verifiable predictions? Those "explanations" do not even permit the prediction of the apparent size, brightness, shape and position of each star, planet, etc. in the sky on every hour of this day. By contrast, you can confidently predict each one of them with better than one degree of error and better than 30% error in brightness, since the early 1700's.

For every neat little FE "explanation" you can find I can tell you of one prediction that modern science can make with excellent precision and where FE cannot translate its "explanation" to a prediction of any sort, with any acceptable margin of error.

Re: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2009, 10:06:14 AM »
I hate to say it but lurk moar. Most of the things you stated are explained here. I Personally don't believe FET but they have answers for most or possibly all the things you just stated. Don't be closed minded and just say "Look out your window is the best I've seen."
I am sorry to say so, but you have to check your definition of "explaining". In science the only acceptable explanation is the one that leads to verifiable predictions, not the one that makes you exclaim "oh, now I finally understand".

For example, the explanations you hear in quantum physics are ugly and counter-intuitive, but they made our world of electronics possible. The nicer and more intuitive explanations where a particle and a wave are totally different phenomenons would have lead us to living in the 1920's forever.

How many of FE'rs "explanations" lead to verifiable predictions? Those "explanations" do not even permit the prediction of the apparent size, brightness, shape and position of each star, planet, etc. in the sky on every hour of this day. By contrast, you can confidently predict each one of them with better than one degree of error and better than 30% error in brightness, since the early 1700's.

For every neat little FE "explanation" you can find I can tell you of one prediction that modern science can make with excellent precision and where FE cannot translate its "explanation" to a prediction of any sort, with any acceptable margin of error.

Amen

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OmgHAI

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Re: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2009, 10:11:25 AM »
Lol sorry grammar police... excuse my misuse of the word explained no need to go nazi all over my ass
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trig

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Re: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2009, 12:39:52 PM »
Lol sorry grammar police... excuse my misuse of the word explained no need to go nazi all over my ass
Sorry, the idea is not to criticize grammar. If there is any use for this place at all, it is for the education on science. The scientific method is deceptively simple and many in places like this take advantage of subtle things like the word "explain" to give a scientific aura to pure cheap rhetoric.

In common language, explaining can be a number of things but in the scientific method, and in science in general, explaining has a specific meaning.

One of this place's favorite misconceptions is that something is weird and fishy when the gravitational pull produces a force at a distance. "How can the Sun create a force at millions of miles away, on Earth? That theory has to be wrong", is the message you will often see. But all the other three forces of nature are also forces at a distance and accepted here.

The Earth's orbit is "explained" in the sense that you can predict where exactly you will see the Sun, Moon, planets and stars any time from now, even if you would like to say "no, I do not get it".

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trig

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Re: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2009, 12:51:45 PM »

 You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
  This is a very interesting theory, Have you performed the experiment?
I have, and horses will fight against anyone trying to push their mouths into the water, even if they are thirsty.

And in this site you will see the metaphorical equivalent every time the word "conspiracy" is wielded.

Re: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2009, 04:31:05 PM »
The reason people stopped believing the Earth was flat was because it was proven to be round. It's like if there was a cat wearing a black coat and eveyone said it was a black cat until someone took the coat off and realized it was orange, saying there's a flat earth is like saying the cat was still black. Flat earth was disproved allong time ago and that's why people realized there is a round earth.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2009, 07:06:44 PM by Kolebott »

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markjo

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Re: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2009, 06:49:25 PM »
Lol sorry grammar police... excuse my misuse of the word explained no need to go nazi all over my ass

Poor grammar is the internet equivalent of body odor.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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spanner34.5

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Re: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2009, 04:33:54 AM »

 You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
  This is a very interesting theory, Have you performed the experiment?
I have, and horses will fight against anyone trying to push their mouths into the water, even if they are thirsty.

And in this site you will see the metaphorical equivalent every time the word "conspiracy" is wielded.

Try depriving the horse of water for several days, lead the horse to water. It will drink. You have caused the horse to drink

Therefore......................
My I.Q. is 85. Or was it 58?

Re: Do you have any real, tangible proof that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2009, 04:44:39 AM »

 You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
  This is a very interesting theory, Have you performed the experiment?
I have, and horses will fight against anyone trying to push their mouths into the water, even if they are thirsty.

And in this site you will see the metaphorical equivalent every time the word "conspiracy" is wielded.

Try depriving the horse of water for several days, lead the horse to water. It will drink. You have caused the horse to drink

Therefore......................

So you're saying if we all go away and stop trying to force the truth on you, after a few days, you'll get bored of this nonsense and see things the way they actually are?