The FAQ

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mtarlo11

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The FAQ
« on: October 14, 2009, 07:55:24 AM »
Quote from FAQ

Quote
Q:  Follow-up to previous question:  "How is it that the Earth does not have a gravitational pull, but stars and the moon do?"

A:  This argument is a non-sequitur. You might as well ask, "How is it that snakes do not have legs, but dogs and cats do?" Snakes are not dogs or cats. The Earth is not a star or the moon. It doesn't follow that each must have exactly the properties of the others, and no more.

Im glad you FE guys agree the stars and moon have a gravitational pull. This is because everything with mass has a gravitational pull, proportional to its distance

G = m1 x m2 / d2

Are you saying the Earth and everything on it has no mass?

By the way - the snake, dog and cat analogy......wow.

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SupahLovah

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Re: The FAQ
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2009, 08:05:07 AM »
Go to bed. You don't belong here.

FET says that earth isn't a planet, it's a special body.
"Study Gravitation; It's a field with a lot of potential!"

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mtarlo11

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Re: The FAQ
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2009, 08:12:40 AM »
Go to bed. You don't belong here.

FET says that earth isn't a planet, it's a special body.

I didn't mention the Earth was a planet. I just said it had mass, which is the only requirement for it to have gravity.

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SupahLovah

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Re: The FAQ
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2009, 09:32:01 AM »
No gravity in FET, gravitation exists. Caused by the stars and such, so it doesn't matter to earth.

I don't really get what they think, but it's asked again and again.
"Study Gravitation; It's a field with a lot of potential!"

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mtarlo11

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Re: The FAQ
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2009, 09:52:26 AM »
No gravity in FET, gravitation exists. Caused by the stars and such, so it doesn't matter to earth.

I don't really get what they think, but it's asked again and again.

The earth is made of rock. Get two rocks and a sophisticated enough machine and you can measure the gravitional pull between them.

Got an answer to that?

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SupahLovah

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Re: The FAQ
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2009, 09:54:14 AM »
:(

lrn to gravitation.

PM parsifal and ask him.
"Study Gravitation; It's a field with a lot of potential!"

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mtarlo11

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Re: The FAQ
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2009, 09:59:19 AM »
:(

lrn to gravitation.

PM parsifal and ask him.

I dont need to ask anybody. I have studied physics as part of my engineering degree. Its also quite common knowledge.

But I would love to see how parsifal can explain how two rocks have gravitational pull between them. When he believes the Earth has no gravity


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Parsifal

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Re: The FAQ
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2009, 10:00:04 AM »
But I would love to see how parsifal can explain how two rocks have gravitational pull between them.

Can you?
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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mtarlo11

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Re: The FAQ
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2009, 10:03:45 AM »
But I would love to see how parsifal can explain how two rocks have gravitational pull between them.

Can you?

check the edit.

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Parsifal

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Re: The FAQ
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2009, 10:05:36 AM »
he believes the Earth has no gravity

What gave you that idea?
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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mtarlo11

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Re: The FAQ
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2009, 10:19:45 AM »
he believes the Earth has no gravity

What gave you that idea?

Because you think the Earth is flat. Gravity would turn it into a sphere over time.

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Parsifal

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Re: The FAQ
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2009, 10:21:21 AM »
Because you think the Earth is flat.

What gave you that idea?
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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mtarlo11

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Re: The FAQ
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2009, 10:26:21 AM »
Because you think the Earth is flat.

What gave you that idea?

Quote

No, gravitation acts mutually between any two masses. Besides, an infinite plane does not have a centre.

That did.....???? Are you high?

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Ocius

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Re: The FAQ
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2009, 10:27:30 AM »
I've never read the FAQ, but that is a pretty horrible argument.

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Parsifal

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Re: The FAQ
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2009, 10:50:41 AM »
Because you think the Earth is flat.

What gave you that idea?

Quote

No, gravitation acts mutually between any two masses. Besides, an infinite plane does not have a centre.

That did.....???? Are you high?

I don't see any reference to my beliefs in that quote.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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deathsink

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Re: The FAQ
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2009, 09:18:54 PM »
If gravity exists, and the Earth is subject to the force of gravity, this mathematical note from my planetary science book should apply to earth:
"In chapter 8 we will derive the following equation for the pressure of overlying material, measured at some distance r out from the center of a planet with uniform mean density p with radius R:

Pr = [(2*Pi*G*p^2)/3]*(R^2 - r^2)

Now consider a planetesimal in whose central region the strength of the material, is greater than the pressure exerted by the overlying material. (Note that the strength S and the pressure Pr have the same units, newtons/meter^2). As long as S exceeds Pr in the central region, the planetesimal will be strong enough to retain any irregular shape [a flat shape in this case] it might acquire, say, by collisional fragmentation. But if the planetesimal grows to a size such that Pr begins to exceed then the central material will be crushed and the planet can begin to assume the spheroidal shape of hydrostatic equilibrium. If we set Pr equal to S for material 20% of the way out from the center (an arbitrary choice for distance), the equation reduces to the following condition for the largest planetesimal radius RMax that can sustain a substantially irregular shape:

S = 1.34(10^-10)p^2*RMax^2
(assuming SI units)

We might expect the inner regions of a reasonably large planetesimal to be made either of moderately strong rock (like chondritic meteorites) or of iron (like iron meteorites). For these two cases we have the following conditions:

(1) For a rocky planetesimal [earth!], strengths of chondritic stone meteorite range from about 6 x 10 to 4 x 10^8 N/m^2 (Wasson, 1974), and corresponding densities range from 2500 to 3800 kg/m^3, respectively. Using a representative strength and density of 2 x 10^8 N/m^2 abd 3500 kg/m^3 we find

RMax = 349 km

(2) For an iron-cored planetsimal, using an iron meteorites strength of 4 x 10^8 N/m^2 (Wasson, 1974) and the iron density of about 7870 kg/m^3, we find :

RMax = 220 km


These calculations suggest that the largest irregular planetesimals might be expected to line the the diameter range of 440 to 700 km. This prediction, though based on a simplified analysis, is in excellent agreement with empirical data, where the largest irregular asteroids and satellites show a well-defined upper diameter limit in the range of about 360 to 600 km. "

Wasson, J.T. 1974. Meteorites. New York: Springer-Verlag.

From the book Moon and Planets by William K. Hartmann, 5th edition. Published by Thomson- Brooks Cole. ISBN - 0-534-49393-9


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Parsifal

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Re: The FAQ
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2009, 09:54:10 PM »
If gravity exists, and the Earth is subject to the force of gravity, this mathematical note from my planetary science book should apply to earth:

If the Earth is finite, then it does. However, an infinite Earth cannot simply be treated as an extrapolation of a finite one, because it is fundamentally different in that it does not have a central point about which it may be said to be symmetrical - rather, it is symmetrical in the horizontal plane about every point (barring local variations). Thus, any concept of radius is meaningless, because there is no centre from which to measure it.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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deathsink

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Re: The FAQ
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2009, 10:12:18 PM »
If gravity exists, and the Earth is subject to the force of gravity, this mathematical note from my planetary science book should apply to earth:

If the Earth is finite, then it does. However, an infinite Earth cannot simply be treated as an extrapolation of a finite one, because it is fundamentally different in that it does not have a central point about which it may be said to be symmetrical - rather, it is symmetrical in the horizontal plane about every point (barring local variations). Thus, any concept of radius is meaningless, because there is no centre from which to measure it.

What you state is correct. What evidence is there to show that the earth is an infinite plane though? If the earth was an infinite plane, how could one say that it is accelerating "up", because there is nothing beneath it and that would not really make any sense. Also, if the moon and sun are 32 miles in diameter, how did they become to be sphere, or are they flat though? If these questions are going to derail this thread, I will glady post them individually in their own threads if I am asked and delete this comment.

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markjo

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Re: The FAQ
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2009, 10:12:37 PM »
However, an infinite Earth cannot simply be treated as an extrapolation of a finite one...

Unfortunately, it's impossible to know if the FE truly is infinite so the point is probably moot.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Parsifal

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Re: The FAQ
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2009, 04:31:20 AM »
What you state is correct. What evidence is there to show that the earth is an infinite plane though? If the earth was an infinite plane, how could one say that it is accelerating "up", because there is nothing beneath it and that would not really make any sense. Also, if the moon and sun are 32 miles in diameter, how did they become to be sphere, or are they flat though? If these questions are going to derail this thread, I will glady post them individually in their own threads if I am asked and delete this comment.

The Earth is not accelerating up in the infinite plane model; rather, it has a gravitational field. The Sun and Moon vary depending on which model you follow; some believe them to be flat metallic discs, others believe them to have formed spheres due to gravitation.

Unfortunately, it's impossible to know if the FE truly is infinite so the point is probably moot.

Not at all. It illustrates that it is possible for a Flat Earth to exist without collapsing under its own gravitation.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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markjo

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Re: The FAQ
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2009, 08:32:57 AM »
Unfortunately, it's impossible to know if the FE truly is infinite so the point is probably moot.

Not at all. It illustrates that it is possible for a Flat Earth to exist without collapsing under its own gravitation.
???  How do you verify that something is truly infinitely large?  What falsifiable test is there?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.