Clarifications on 'Gravity'

if gravity dosent exist, what is holding us up???

Huh?

Apparently, the Earth's acceleration holds us to the ground.

what exactly do you mean the earths acceleration? if the earth is flat how would it accelerate?

The Earth is accelerated through the universe by a force known as Dark Energy. From our point of view, the Earth is accelerating at 9.8m/s², which is basically the same thing as the downward pull of 'gravity'.

It's Einstein's famous equivalence principle.

i just dont understand how you say the earth is accelerating. if the earth is flat, we wouldn't be accelerating anywhere, we would pretty much be stationary.......is what im saying....

The Earth is accelerating in the same way a dinner plate is accelerating if you apply force to it.

sooooo, your basically saying that were being pushed upward?? if im correct, what is pushing us up? for that matter, what is holding us down??

The earth is accelerating upwards. We are pinned to its surface as the result of a mechanical action.

what is the speed at witch were moving upward?? and i dont get it, do we just keep moving up and up and up?? where are we goin?? and...............what is pushing us up?

what is the speed at witch were moving upward?? and i dont get it, do we just keep moving up and up and up?? where are we goin?? and...............what is pushing us up?

We are moving at 9.8 m/s².

The earth is moving upwards because that is what is observed. For example, step up on your chair and walk off its edge while observing the surface of the earth carefully. You will see that the earth accelerates upwards to you.

The mechanism which pushes the earth is presently unknown, but has been given the placeholder name of Dark Energy.

The earth is moving upwards because that is what is observed. For example, step up on your chair and walk off its edge while observing the surface of the earth carefully. You will see that the earth accelerates upwards to you.

I just tested this experiment, and I found different results. I found that I accelerated down to my carpet.

I just tested this experiment, and I found different results. I found that I accelerated down to my carpet.

Try again, but this time take an accelerometer with you and record its reading as you are falling.

Quote from: dr0wningprincess on October 07, 2009, 11:19:39 PM

what is the speed at witch were moving upward?? and i dont get it, do we just keep moving up and up and up?? where are we goin?? and...............what is pushing us up?

We are moving accelerating at 9.8 m/s².

The earth is could be moving accelerating upwards because that is what is observed. For example, step up on your chair and walk off its edge while observing the surface of the earth carefully. You will see that either the earth accelerates upwards to you, or you are accelerating towards the earth. That is all the observation tells us.

Fixed for you.

Yes, acceleration is a movement.

Acceleration is a change in velocity. Movement is not.

Acceleration is a change in velocity but it isn't a movement?  

that still dosent answer my question. so, if were acclerating upwards..........what then? we just keep rising up? and up? and up?? every day? at 9.8 m/s or what have you? where are we goin? are we ever going to stop? why have we not hit the sun yet?? i mean, really............what is up with that?? and what is pushing us up? and what, dose the bottom of the earth keep growning, and pushing us up or something?? or what? somebody? anybody?

Quote from: Tom Bishop on October 08, 2009, 12:12:18 PM

Quote from: Eddy Baby on October 08, 2009, 06:09:05 AM

Acceleration is a change in velocity. Movement is not.

Acceleration is a change in velocity but it isn't a movement?  

I meant movement isn't necessarily.
But whatever I said, you don't have a foot to stand on here, I'd admit I made a mistake if I were you.

Movement isn't necessary form something to accelerate? 

that still dosent answer my question. so, if were acclerating upwards..........what then? we just keep rising up? and up? and up?? every day? at 9.8 m/s or what have you? where are we goin? are we ever going to stop? why have we not hit the sun yet?? i mean, really............what is up with that?? and what is pushing us up? and what, dose the bottom of the earth keep growning, and pushing us up or something?? or what? somebody? anybody?

Things you need to know:
1. Yes, this is as stupid as it sounds.
2. No, there is no provable evidence for it.
3. As you can see already, trying to engage the flat guys in debate on this ends up with them either denying data, nitpicking over words and definitions or accusing you of being wrong. Regardless of what you post they will choose one of these three responses. Therefore, you can never win the argument.

that still dosent answer my question. so, if were acclerating upwards..........what then? we just keep rising up? and up? and up?? every day? at 9.8 m/s or what have you?

That is correct, all the observed evidence suggests that the Earth has been accelerating upwards for billions of years and will continue to do so in the future.

where are we goin? are we ever going to stop?

We are not heading to any particular destination (at least, not one that has been observed), and there is no indication of the rate of acceleration decreasing or increasing.  

You ask an interesting question though - it stands to reason that as we continue to accelerate our perception of time relative to the rest of the Universe becomes increasingly warped (according to special relativity) and so if the Universe is not infinite we may end up being destroyed by the heat death or big crunch in the blink of an eye, without ever seeing it coming.

why have we not hit the sun yet?? i mean, really............what is up with that??

All observations suggest that the Sun and Moon are accelerating upwards with us.

and what is pushing us up?

There are several suggestions, although dark energy is the leading candidate.

and what, dose the bottom of the earth keep growning, and pushing us up or something?? or what? somebody? anybody?

Again, there are several theories, although the most popular feature a disc of finite thickness being pushed upwards by an immense but constant force.  As far as anyone can tell, the Earth has maintained a constant thickness throughout its history.

Hope this helps, and welcome to FES!

[/quote]

Things you need to know:
1. Yes, this is as stupid as it sounds.
2. No, there is no provable evidence for it.
3. As you can see already, trying to engage the flat guys in debate on this ends up with them either denying data, nitpicking over words and definitions or accusing you of being wrong. Regardless of what you post they will choose one of these three responses. Therefore, you can never win the argument.
[/quote]

lol, yes, i see this, but its worth a shot tho, ........its keeping me occupied, lol

and for matrix.........what is pushing the sun and the moon up with us?? why are they moving?

and what exactly, would 'black energy' be??

and for matrix.........what is pushing the sun and the moon up with us?? why are they moving?

and what exactly, would 'black energy' be??

The same force that's pushing the Earth. "Dark energy". The theory states that since the Earth is accelerating, than there must be a force causing it to accelerate, thus dark energy.

yes it's ridiculous.

and for matrix.........what is pushing the sun and the moon up with us?? why are they moving?

and what exactly, would 'black energy' be??

As Areweonfiya said, Dark Energy is the mechanism that supposedly pushes the FE disc and the Sun, Moon and other planets up with us.  It's entirely possible it is pushing the entire Milky Way up with us as well, although I think FET should sort out some more pressing problems with physics on Earth before it starts worrying about the rest of the Universe too deeply.  As for what it is exactly, no one knows exactly - this is not unusual in cosmology, even in RET, where the expansion of the Universe is supposedly driven by Dark Energy.  As you can tell, the fact that the 'accepted' science of RET also relies on such mechanisms doesn't seem to bother the intolerant few that attack FET from a position of extreme hypocrisy.  Thank you for showing a genuine curiosity.

The same force that's pushing the Earth. "Dark energy". The theory states that since the Earth is accelerating, than there must be a force causing it to accelerate, thus dark energy.

yes it's ridiculous.

It's not ridiculous - there are enormous forces at work in the Universe and I believe it is only extreme arrogance that would allow anyone to claim that one form of invisible energy is ok while another is 'ridiculous'.

The acceleration isn't constant, which means there's no evidence that suggests the Earth has been accelerating upwards for billions of years.

Erm, lolwut?  There are fossil records dating back billions of years, and sedimentary evidence back beyond those, that suggest that the Earth has been accelerating upwards very consistently (or, equivalently, has had a gravitational pull on the order of 1g).  Of course there are local variations - these are not in dispute (by me, anyway) - and can likely be explained by local changes in near-surface mass density.

So if it's invisible it's ridiculous? Come on man. It's not extreme arrogance, it's logic. If anything, I would say YOU are being arrogant, trying to outsmart every physics professor and minds that have ever existed with your outlandish hypthesis.

So if it's invisible it's ridiculous? Come on man. It's not extreme arrogance, it's logic. If anything, I would say YOU are being arrogant, trying to outsmart every physics professor and minds that have ever existed with your outlandish hypthesis.

That's not what I said at all, I said:

I believe it is only extreme arrogance that would allow anyone to claim that one form of invisible energy is ok while another is 'ridiculous'.

If RET is 'allowed' to invoke DE as a mechanism to explain the apparently perpetual expansion of the Universe then why should FET be excluded from employing it?  Plus I'm not trying to outsmart any physics professors - they're the ones that came up with DE in the first place!!

9.8 m/s^2? As you know, we have observed that acceleration is not an exact constant everywhere on earth; it changes based on latitude and altitude. At more extreme latitudes, it is higher; at higher altitudes, it is lower. What explains the differences in this acceleration? (i.e. differences in normal force)

9.8 m/s^2? As you know, we have observed that acceleration is not an exact constant everywhere on earth; it changes based on latitude and altitude. At more extreme latitudes, it is higher; at higher altitudes, it is lower. What explains the differences in this acceleration? (i.e. differences in normal force)

The differences in the normal force are caused by varying separation between the atoms in your feet and those in the ground, in accordance with Coulomb's law.

If there are variations in the rate at which something is accelerating then it will tear itself apart.

...Depending on structural integrity.
In a roller coaster that shoots straight up, there is an extreme difference in pressure from acceleration, but the rest of your body accelerates the unsupported parts perfectly fine.

Please indicate which part of the body accelerates at a different rate to the rest.

For the start of the ride the limbs have no force applied to them, whereas the body harnessed into the seat has pressure from the seat applied to it. The structural integrity of the body and arms allows the seat to accelerate the body and the body to accelerate the limbs. The rate applied doesn't need to be the same, but the rate of one part will often approach the rate of what it pulling it. In the case of something as uniform as Dark Energy. The fluctuations in rate should be extremely small, whereas a roller coaster can pull you in any conceivable direction.

"Local variations" does not equal "constant".

If there are variations in the rate at which something is accelerating then it will tear itself apart.

Ahh of course, so if the round Earth experiences different accelerations at the surface as you claim, why hasn't it torn itself to pieces?

You are aware, I hope, that my FE model allows the FE disc to generate a percentage of the acceleratory force we feel through gravitation.