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World War 3

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Rick_James

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World War 3
« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2006, 02:00:58 AM »
Also the airport has been blown up :?
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Feralkitten

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World War 3
« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2006, 08:48:08 AM »
Quote from: "jitterbug"
I don't walk around with a gun because I don't make it a habit to put myself in situations where I'm going to need one. America (and too many Americans) greatly underestimate the power of diplomacy and reason.

I completely agree. I live in the south where, just like Texas, everyone has a gun. i see no reason for this.

you can also say this on a larger scale by replacing guns with bombs.

i just don't see why anyone would mess with Israel. it has a large military power and powerful allies. it looks like with all that has happened in this portion of the world, some ppl might eventually clue in to the fact that we are tired of seeing things blow up. (unless of coarse we are doing it.)

the world is no longer a place that the sword rules all the time. you can't just kill your wife cause she disobeys and you can't kill other ppl cause they do not share your beliefs. Capturing soldiers and civilians alike, and bombing buildings are only going to draw attention to yourself long enough for a larger power to come destroy you. then you are back to living in caves with a few less family members.

you don't have to like the person next to you. you only have to tolerate the fact they believe something different than you.

while you are @ it you might want to start letting women vote and drive cars. you know treat EVERYONE equal. that is a different discussion though.
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Erasmus

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World War 3
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2006, 09:44:30 AM »
Quote from: "Feralkitten"
you can't just kill your wife cause she disobeys


... outside Pakistan, Syria, Jordan...
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Dionysios

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World War 3
« Reply #33 on: July 20, 2006, 10:22:25 AM »
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Dionysios

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World War 3
« Reply #34 on: July 20, 2006, 10:24:11 AM »
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Cinlef

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World War 3
« Reply #35 on: July 20, 2006, 10:41:36 AM »
I thought the border was closed and the Beirut Damscus hightway bombed
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Quote from: Colonel Gaydafi on February 07, 2009, 03:54:06 AM
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Dionysios

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World War 3
« Reply #36 on: July 20, 2006, 10:50:47 AM »
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jitterbug

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World War 3
« Reply #37 on: July 20, 2006, 11:05:35 AM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
Quote from: "Erasmus"
Quote from: "Feralkitten"
you can't just kill your wife cause she disobeys


... outside Pakistan, Syria, Jordan...


  Can you substantiate that accusation?

- Dionysios

Well, it's done elsewhere. It just tends to be harder to get away with in most countries. Of course, you can always convince them that they've dishonoured the family and should off themselves. It seems to work well in Turkey, among other places.
Plus, it leaves your hands technically blood-free.
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Erasmus

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Honour killings
« Reply #38 on: July 20, 2006, 11:32:20 AM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
Can you substantiate that accusation?


Grr.  I compiled a lengthy list of references and then closed the window.

Wikipedia has a good list of links to news articles and documents.  I especially recommend the links to the UN Office of the High Commissioner on Human Rights.  There, you can do a search for "honour killings in pakistan" (or syria or whatever).

Another good link is Case Study: "Honour" Killings and Blood Feuds.  It focuses on Pakistan, Jordan, Palestine, and the Balkans.

Lastly, I highly recommend reading The Trouble with Islam Today by Irshad Manji.  Her website contains a somewhat difficult-to-find video of a stoning, with narration -- I'm not sure what country it takes place in because I can't find a link on the website from any article.

This stuff happens, and is underreported.  Pakistan is, as far as I know, the most notorious offender, by Jordan, Palestine, and Saudi Arabia are not far behind.

-Erasmus
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Erasmus

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Re: Honour killings
« Reply #39 on: July 20, 2006, 11:34:56 AM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
Quote from: "Dionysios"
Can you substantiate that accusation?


Grr.  I compiled a lengthy list of references and then closed the window.

Wikipedia has a good list of links to news articles and documents.  I especially recommend the links to the UN Office of the High Commissioner on Human Rights.  There, you can do a search for "honour killings in pakistan" (or syria or whatever).

Another good link is Case Study: "Honour" Killings and Blood Feuds.  It focuses on Pakistan, Jordan, Palestine, and the Balkans.

Lastly, I highly recommend reading The Trouble with Islam Today by Irshad Manji.  Her website contains a somewhat difficult-to-find video of a stoning, with narration -- I'm not sure what country it takes place in because I can't find a link on the website from any article.

This stuff happens, is ignored by the authorities in many countries, and is underreported.  Pakistan is, as far as I know, the most notorious offender, by Jordan, Palestine, and Saudi Arabia are not far behind.

-Erasmus
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Feralkitten

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World War 3
« Reply #40 on: July 20, 2006, 11:55:23 AM »
thank you Erasmus. you posted that info faster than i could look it up.

we had a Pakistani (spelling?) contractor here @ work with us for 6 months. he told me of numerous horrors (to women) that were commonplace in his part of the world.

ie: genital removal, killing non-virgins prior to marriage, honor killings, trading women for cattle/sheep, and having it illegal for women to vote or drive.
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Erasmus

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World War 3
« Reply #41 on: July 20, 2006, 12:07:01 PM »
Quote from: "Feralkitten"
thank you Erasmus. you posted that info faster than i could look it up.


... and replied to it faster than you could, as well.  Why did I do that, I wonder?

Quote
ie: genital removal,


I didn't mention that because it's basically too sickening to contemplate.  But yes.
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Dionysios

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« Reply #42 on: July 20, 2006, 12:12:26 PM »
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jitterbug

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World War 3
« Reply #43 on: July 20, 2006, 12:13:22 PM »
I don't think there was any indication that the list was a complete one.
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CrimsonKing

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« Reply #44 on: July 20, 2006, 12:19:27 PM »
Thats what i assumed by the ...data... format

but I believe Saudi Arabia fits in
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Dionysios

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« Reply #45 on: July 20, 2006, 12:19:45 PM »
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jitterbug

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World War 3
« Reply #46 on: July 20, 2006, 12:25:32 PM »
Well, now that I've read that you do not find hese things wrong or sickening, I'm feel a little sickened, myself. Glad to know you view me as less valuable than something with a penis.

Most of the people fighting against crimes against women do it everywhere. There are probably some who do it for political purposes as well, but if you vfocus on the fact that people are being hurt, it shouldn't matter. You can accomplish one thing without pandering to the politics. All people deserve to live their lives as they choose. If a woman doesn't want to vote or drive or isn't particularly fond of her clitoris, then let her decide, but the moment someone makes your decisions for you without your consent is the moment someone needs to say that's not right.
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CrimsonKing

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« Reply #47 on: July 20, 2006, 12:32:14 PM »
Even if it is for a political excuse, I would say that the ends justify the means in this situation.  No matter why youre doing it, as long as you do the right thing and give the women equal rights, which is only fair, than I think it is a job well done
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Cinlef

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World War 3
« Reply #48 on: July 20, 2006, 12:39:57 PM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
Why no mention of Egypt which has a rather pro-american government?

  First, I certainly do not disagree that most of the things you describe are wrong and even sickening.  To the extent they are true (and definitely to any extent thwy are faked), my concern is that they are used for political purposes.  It fits in so well with the sickening political program of the west whose politicians automatically jump on this bandwagon.  Would they do so if these reports came from non-muslims countries?  It would be interetsing to see which groups expose violence against women in ALL countries versus those who are exclusively concerned with violence against women in muslim countries alone.

- Dionysios

Missing thepoint as usual.
Noone issaying there isnt violence against womenin othercountries. Well all the things Erasmus described except perhaps thepublicc stonings almsot certainly happen in Canada USA and Europe. However in Canada 99.99%+ of the time the legal system doesnt look the other way. So when it is reported and the guilty party is apprehended they are punished. This acts as a deterrent. In countries such as Pakistan where the legal system looks the other way violence against women then becomes more common. The same phenomenon exists in civil wars where as there is no legal system with authority violence agaisnt women (and indeed all crimes becomes rampant) try being an undefended woman between the ages of 6-65 in such places as North Uganda Congo Sudan etc.
Dionysios I get the feeling in trying to avoid anti Muslim/Arab bias you are being irrational. Its wrong to demonize Muslims and or Arabs it is just as wrong to ignore crimes (documented eye witness accounts victims testamonials video etc) comimited by people of that faith/ethnicity  as propaganda.
An enraged
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Truth is great and will prevail-Thomas Jefferson

Quote from: Colonel Gaydafi on February 07, 2009, 03:54:06 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Cinlef is the bestest!

Melior est sapientia quam vires-Wisdom
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Erasmus

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World War 3
« Reply #49 on: July 20, 2006, 12:50:20 PM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
Why no mention of Egypt which has a rather pro-american government? ... Would they do so if these reports came from non-muslims countries? ... It would be interetsing to see which groups expose violence against women in ALL countries versus those who are exclusively concerned with violence against women in muslim countries alone.


Quote from: "The OHCHR report"

26. The report of the Special Rapporteur submitted to
the fifty-eighth session of the Commission on Human
Rights, in 2002, concerning cultural practices in the
f a mi l y that    are    violent  towards    women
(E/CN.4/2002/83), indicated that honour killings had
been reported in Egypt, the Islamic Republic of Iran,
Jordan, Lebanon, Morocco, Pakistan, the Syrian Arab
Republic, Turkey, Yemen, and other Mediterranean and
Gulf countries, and that they had also taken place in
such countries as France, Germany and the United
Kingdom, within migrant communities. ...

The Special Rapporteur indicated that there had been
contradictory decisions with regard to the honour
defence in Brazil, and that legislative provisions
allowing for partial or complete defence in that context
could be found in the penal codes of Argentina,
Bangladesh, Ecuador, Egypt, Guatemala, the Islamic
Republic of Iran, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Peru, the
Syrian Arab Republic, Turkey, Venezuela and the West
Bank.


Egypt, as well as a variety of non-Muslim countries, are indeed indicted.
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Dionysios

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« Reply #50 on: July 20, 2006, 12:50:28 PM »
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Feralkitten

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World War 3
« Reply #51 on: July 20, 2006, 12:52:51 PM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
... and replied to it faster than you could, as well. Why did I do that, I wonder?


it might have had to do with the fact i went to Taco Bell for a few...

Quote from: "Dionysios"
Why no mention of Egypt which has a rather pro-American government?


i didn't compile the list, but if i did it wouldn't have been complete; just complete enough to prove my point. NOR would it have anything to do with politics.

I brought up the fact that women were being (brutally) mistreated in this part of the world. and this i have learned from one of its own citizens, not from political propaganda.

I'm not being pro-American NOR am i being anti-Muslim. but if someone is having their genitals removed without there consent i would call that wrong. and if something is wrong someone should put a stop to it.

I don't think believing women should have rights is just an American thing. i'm a pacifist by nature and the mistreatment of women is one of the only things i would ever react violently against.

...to much Tori Amos i guess.
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submerge529

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World War 3
« Reply #52 on: July 20, 2006, 12:53:17 PM »
Quote from: "Cinlef"
Quote from: "Dionysios"
Why no mention of Egypt which has a rather pro-american government?

  First, I certainly do not disagree that most of the things you describe are wrong and even sickening.  To the extent they are true (and definitely to any extent thwy are faked), my concern is that they are used for political purposes.  It fits in so well with the sickening political program of the west whose politicians automatically jump on this bandwagon.  Would they do so if these reports came from non-muslims countries?  It would be interetsing to see which groups expose violence against women in ALL countries versus those who are exclusively concerned with violence against women in muslim countries alone.

- Dionysios

Missing thepoint as usual.
Noone issaying there isnt violence against womenin othercountries. Well all the things Erasmus described except perhaps thepublicc stonings almsot certainly happen in Canada USA and Europe. However in Canada 99.99%+ of the time the legal system doesnt look the other way. So when it is reported and the guilty party is apprehended they are punished. This acts as a deterrent. In countries such as Pakistan where the legal system looks the other way violence against women then becomes more common. The same phenomenon exists in civil wars where as there is no legal system with authority violence agaisnt women (and indeed all crimes becomes rampant) try being an undefended woman between the ages of 6-65 in such places as North Uganda Congo Sudan etc.
Dionysios I get the feeling in trying to avoid anti Muslim/Arab bias you are being irrational. Its wrong to demonize Muslims and or Arabs it is just as wrong to ignore crimes (documented eye witness accounts victims testamonials video etc) comimited by people of that faith/ethnicity  as propaganda.
An enraged
Cinlef


I heard that in Canada if you are pulled over for say, some traffic-related violation, you can request a different officer to be assigned to you, if you are uncomfortable with the one who's with you already?  Unrelated, I'm just looking for confirmation that this is true.
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Cinlef

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World War 3
« Reply #53 on: July 20, 2006, 12:55:27 PM »
Quote from: "submerge529"
Quote from: "Cinlef"
Quote from: "Dionysios"
Why no mention of Egypt which has a rather pro-american government?

  First, I certainly do not disagree that most of the things you describe are wrong and even sickening.  To the extent they are true (and definitely to any extent thwy are faked), my concern is that they are used for political purposes.  It fits in so well with the sickening political program of the west whose politicians automatically jump on this bandwagon.  Would they do so if these reports came from non-muslims countries?  It would be interetsing to see which groups expose violence against women in ALL countries versus those who are exclusively concerned with violence against women in muslim countries alone.

- Dionysios

Missing thepoint as usual.
Noone issaying there isnt violence against womenin othercountries. Well all the things Erasmus described except perhaps thepublicc stonings almsot certainly happen in Canada USA and Europe. However in Canada 99.99%+ of the time the legal system doesnt look the other way. So when it is reported and the guilty party is apprehended they are punished. This acts as a deterrent. In countries such as Pakistan where the legal system looks the other way violence against women then becomes more common. The same phenomenon exists in civil wars where as there is no legal system with authority violence agaisnt women (and indeed all crimes becomes rampant) try being an undefended woman between the ages of 6-65 in such places as North Uganda Congo Sudan etc.
Dionysios I get the feeling in trying to avoid anti Muslim/Arab bias you are being irrational. Its wrong to demonize Muslims and or Arabs it is just as wrong to ignore crimes (documented eye witness accounts victims testamonials video etc) comimited by people of that faith/ethnicity  as propaganda.
An enraged
Cinlef


I heard that in Canada if you are pulled over for say, some traffic-related violation, you can request a different officer to be assigned to you, if you are uncomfortable with the one who's with you already?  Unrelated, I'm just looking for confirmation that this is true.

Most off topic post ever Wow
And no I do not know if thats true.
An enraged
Cinlef
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Truth is great and will prevail-Thomas Jefferson

Quote from: Colonel Gaydafi on February 07, 2009, 03:54:06 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Cinlef is the bestest!

Melior est sapientia quam vires-Wisdom
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Dionysios

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World War 3
« Reply #54 on: July 20, 2006, 01:06:49 PM »
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Erasmus

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World War 3
« Reply #55 on: July 20, 2006, 01:10:38 PM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
Quote from: "Cinlef"
Missing thepoint as usual.

You have evaded my point.


Maybe, but I didn't!!
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Dionysios

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World War 3
« Reply #56 on: July 20, 2006, 01:11:56 PM »
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Cinlef

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World War 3
« Reply #57 on: July 20, 2006, 01:23:16 PM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
Quote from: "Cinlef"
Missing thepoint as usual.

I understand the point fine, and I never slammed it.  You have evaded my point.  Moreover, the aspect of violence to women which I brought up is actually related to the topic of this thread which is scenarios which can lead to world war.  So you are missing the point of the thread.  Isn't a moderator supposed to keep the conversation on the topic?  How is violence to women related to world war III?

I am supposed to keep the thread on topic I'm also supposedto allow the conversation to flow. Violence of women was brought up by someone advocating pacifism (viz you cannot kill your wife for disagreeing with you why another country Someone with an opposing point of view replied you CAN kill your wife invarious countries. You then demanded justification for that stament and the justification was providedand now a debate of that justification has emerged. The mods will permit thisto continue as it is a direct result of the disscussion of the original topic. You are right in as much that violence against women is a topic that could easily fil its own thread. Anyone should feel free to start one. You were missing hte point by trying to segway into  one of your typical"the West hates Muslims death to American/Zionisit Imperialist rants " rather than addressing the real issue violence against women
Quote from: "Dionysios"
Quote from: "Cinlef"
"]I get the feeling in trying to avoid anti Muslim/Arab bias you are being irrational. Its wrong to demonize Muslims and or Arabs it is just as wrong to ignore crimes (documented eye witness accounts victims testamonials video etc) comimited by people of that faith/ethnicity  as propaganda.

How in the world do you imply I ignore crimes?  If that is what you are saying, then you are a liar.

  I certainly get the idea you promote murder from other posts you have made:
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1633&start=60

- Dionysios

Okay as to allegations tat you ignore crimes I shall highlight the relevant passage below
Quote from: "Dionysios"
Why no mention of Egypt which has a rather pro-american government?

  First, I certainly do not disagree that most of the things you describe are wrong and even sickening.  To the extent they are true (and definitely to any extent thwy are faked), my concern is that they are used for political purposes.  It fits in so well with the sickening political program of the west whose politicians automatically jump on this bandwagon.  Would they do so if these reports came from non-muslims countries?  It would be interetsing to see which groups expose violence against women in ALL countries versus those who are exclusively concerned with violence against women in muslim countries alone.

- Dionysios

The impression I got from the post above is that you are implying most of the reported incidents of violence against women from the Muslim world are  lies. This statement (without any sort of justification except it fits my view of how the "West" operates) dismisses those reported crimes. Thus effectively ignoring them. I WAS NOT attempting to say you would do nnoting if you saw someone assult a women in front of you on the street. I hope that clarifies my remarks.
AS to the allegation of my support for murder,  I was expressing support for someone who lost relatives in the Holocaust and was so enraged by your denial of the Holocaust and the implication therein that his family are all liars who are part of a global Jewish conspiracy. there are times when I do get as angry as that and was thus concurring with his feelingsof anger and disgust rather than his advocation of murder for Holocaust deniers.
As to Erasmus being more level headed than me well I shall cheerfully concede that.
Im not trying to plesant I'm trying to persuade you and anyone who thinks like ou of the fundamental flaws and lies that fill your beliefs
Just because I'm angry doesn't make me wrong
An enraged
Cinlef
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Truth is great and will prevail-Thomas Jefferson

Quote from: Colonel Gaydafi on February 07, 2009, 03:54:06 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Cinlef is the bestest!

Melior est sapientia quam vires-Wisdom
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jitterbug

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World War 3
« Reply #58 on: July 20, 2006, 01:31:58 PM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"


Where do you get that from?

You lie to my face about what I state.  I do not say what you indicate at all.  That is besides the fact your language is repulsive.  If you accuse me of wrongs that I am innocent of, then I will henceforth ignore your posts.

- Dionysios


I apologise for misreading. For some reason, I thought you said that you do not agree that these things are wrong or sickening.

As for my language, I'm not sure what you mean. I wasn't cursing, and surely naming body parts that half the people in the world have isn't disgusting. If I can say appendix without anyone battng an eye, I should also be able to mention gender-related parts.

Again, sorry for misreading. I'm not unreasonable. Perhaps you should not treat me as if I am.
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Feralkitten

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World War 3
« Reply #59 on: July 20, 2006, 02:14:23 PM »
if i got off topic when bringing up the mistreatment of women in the Middle East i apologize.

but it does apply to WWW3 (sorta)

If violent radicals are capturing innocent civilians the they should be eliminated. If soldiers are captured they should be rescued.

It took a civil war in the US to abolish slavery. War is not a good thing, but neither is slavery. The aftermath of that war i believe justifies it. ppl wouldn't have given up the slaves any other way.

If Israel needs to invade a radical and violent part of its neighbouring country to rescue its citizens and soldiers then so be it. if they will not give up the soldiers any other way.

If the UN or US were to root out ALL Islamic fundamentalist that brutally mistreat their woman then so be it. maybe after WW3 we will all be treated equal regardless of our sex.
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verybody knows you can conjure anything by the dark of the Moon. - Tori Amos
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