Fascism An Ominous Trend

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Fascism An Ominous Trend
« on: July 11, 2006, 11:25:49 AM »
It seems that the term fascist is finally losing some of its sting when applied to a certain group of people, and I am thinking of the Bush administration and other pro-israeli war hawks in positions of power.  This is due in no small part to the controlled media.  They thrive on a major portion of the population being ignorant of the depth of their wickedness and therefore having no qualms with supporting them.  The media assists them by tarnishing their worst enemies.  When the media exposes their corruption, they criticize it at best.  

  Earlier this year in Kenya, the government raided the offices of the very informative 'Standard' newspaper and stole 40 computers and burnt an entire day's output.  The american government is large and powerful enough it can act in other ways or to an extent cover up when it does something like this, but the situation is tending worse.  Much of the government and corporations which control it are very much tools of a wealthy and corrupt oligarchy which is masked as a democracy, andmuch of this is included in the jewish lobby which the media seldom enough discusses.  Why is it sancrosanct or some called a hatemonger to bring attention to a group which has a huge malignant influence on society?  It can certainly not be called democratic or representative of the majority.

  I also want to point out an important difference (or at least it has been so up until now) between what I may call a conservative patriot and a revolutionary patriot.  A conservative patriot loves america and fears if trends continue in the same direction, then america may become a police state or dictatorship.  To this group belong most (but not quite all) politically conservative americans.  A revolutionary patriot says america is already a police state and reckons when it became one in the past.  To this latter group belong proportionately many Native First Nations, Africans, Hispanic peoples, Arabs, other Third World Nationalities, and persons of European descent as well.

  Compared with its relative low in the 1970's, genuine fascism unfortunately seems very much on the rise.

- Dionysios

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Cinlef

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Fascism An Ominous Trend
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2006, 04:44:16 PM »
Dionysios as someone who doesnt believe in the Holocaust or the massacres of Stalin and Mao as well as being someone who advocates an feudal monarchy wherein literacy is discouraged and only one point of view is taught and considered acceptable why exactly are you objecting to what you see as a rise of fascism?
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Fascism An Ominous Trend
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2006, 05:01:34 PM »
I did not say that Stalin and Mao did not commit massacres.  Where did you see me state that?

  I do not think it should be forced like it is today, but did I say literacy should be discouraged, especially for those who are naturally apt for it?  No.

  If you want to endorse fascism, then go right ahead, but don't misquote me and lie to my face about what I believe as I know damn well what I said.

  Frankly, I view you as a fascist not only from your views alone but you attempt to dissuade me from protesting against it.

- Dionysios

Fascism An Ominous Trend
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2006, 07:18:04 PM »
I find the right wingers here in America are losing power, Dionysios.

It is the other side that I fear more.  Conservatives, or rather, neo-cons as I should call them for butchering the past conservative ideals are quickly being defanged by the people that first gave them the power.  The corrupt liberal figureheads can now better associate themselves with the people after the goldmine of a scam the presidency was.

They are far too power hungry for my own tastes.
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Fascism An Ominous Trend
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2006, 05:08:04 AM »
Carroll Qiugley wrote a history of the world from 1891 to 1964 entitled 'Tragedy and Hope' in which he described a system designed by the British students of Professor Ruskin of Oxford (like Cecil Rhodes and Alfred Milner) which governs the world today. In this system, both parties are controlled by the same power so that when the public becomes dissatisfied with one of them (currently the Republicans), the other is brought into office and so on back and forth.  He goes into great detail of the history of this as the book is over 1300 pages.  

  Incidentally, Quigley met Bill Clinton in the 1960's and became his mentor as Clinton himself acknowledged when he made the keynote speech at the 1988 Democratic National Convention endorsing Michael Dukakis for President of the United States.  It was through Professor Quigley that Clinton initially made connections to this network of power.

- Dionysios

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Cinlef

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« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2006, 05:15:24 PM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
I did not say that Stalin and Mao did not commit massacres.  Where did you see me state that?

YOu did say you believe the figures of killings in Communist regimes to be greatly exagerated.(The thread on Mao I believe) You said that at least twice. I took that to mean you disbelieved in them entirely which evidently was a misunderstanding on my part. I withrdrawn that part of my stament and apologize.
Quote from: "Dionysios"

  I do not think it should be forced like it is today, but did I say literacy should be discouraged, especially for those who are naturally apt for it?  No.

Errr what you said exactly is (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forums/posting.php?mode=quote&p=13239)
Quote from: "Dionysios"
Widespread literacy is a detriment to civilization.  I am not advocating total illiteracy.  An elite should be able to read.  Widespread illiteracy was a major component of all traditional civilzations including the early Christian, and this element was a major reason for their stability.  Correspondingly, widespread literacy is a contributor to the instability and decadence of modern civilization.
  Industry is dependent upon widespread literacy.  This is the reason for support for schools because the common people need a basic albeit minimal understaning of language and math to be reliable base of labor for modern industry and civilization.  This is not only why corporations are all to willing to replace public schools, but also why education is so poor and why mass education by private corporations will not be any better but ultimately even lower quality than that of public schools.
  The best and cheapest (for the taxpayers that is as opposed to the wealthy few) solution to schooling is to abolish most schools and replace them with absolutely nothing.  This will allow illiteracy to flourish.  If widespread illiteracy were accomplished on a world wide scale, it would destroy industrial civilization.  The vacuum would allow tradition to rise as people returned to the basics.  Life would be more natural and less robotic and secular.  
  Literacy is a major factor in distinguishing traditional civilization from the modern and why the former is superior to the latter.

- Dionysios


You are therefore advocating illiteracy for all but a priviledged elite./ Facists regimes generally have priviledges elites. Which is not to say you endorce facism merely that that aspect of facism should not be distateful to you.


 
Quote from: "Dionysios"
If you want to endorse fascism, then go right ahead, but don't misquote me and lie to my face about what I believe as I know damn well what I said.

  Frankly, I view you as a fascist not only from your views alone but you attempt to dissuade me from protesting against it.

- Dionysios

Okay several things.
First of strictly speaking everyone in this thread has used Facist incorrectly
Technically speaking
 Facism refers solely to the the party and ideology of Benito Mussolini Facist movemejnt. (trivial hair splitting? Yeah but Dionysios you are the one who has persistently argue against using the term anti Semitism to describe prejudice against Jews as it is technically incorrect.)
However facism in a broader sense which I assume is hwhat everyone in the conversation means otherwise I'm lost is defined as
"Fascism may be defined as a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation, or victim-hood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy, and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion." (Anatomy of Fascism,Robert O Paxton  p 218)
Lets proceed with that definition in mind. Okay good.

Now Dionysios you seem to have missed my point I was NOT calling you a facist (either in the correct Italian sense or as defined above).
I fully understand its not the system of goverment you advocate
HOWEVER I did not understand why YOU are so hostile to it,
Before accusing me of calling you a facist just listen as my question is sincere.
Why do you oppose facsim?
I know why I oppose fascism but our reasons cannot be simmilar here's why.
I advocate parlimentary democracy as the ideal system of governace.I believe a government should promote the principles that are the motto of France (despite France failling short numerous times) Liberty Equalite and Fraternity
So fascism is bad in general because
1.Facism takes away liberty by taking away free debate and the democratic process.
2.Fascism deprives men of equality by creating a small priviledged elite
3.It promotes hatred and distrust destroying fraternity.
Now as far as I can see those cannot be your reasons for opposing fascism as
1.Your dislike debate and democracy considering them tools of the devil
To quote you since your right misquoting is bad from (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forums/posting.php?mode=quote&p=13339)
Quote from: "Dionysios"
Just as democracy blasphemously gives Judas Iscariot and the Devil on the same vote as Jesus Christ, so free debate obscures the truth.
  The strength of the truth is in its quality.  The Devil's strength lies in quantity.

- Dionysios

2.You have no problem with a small priviledged elite as you explain here
Quote from: "Dionysios"
I do not believe people should be prevented from learning to read, especially those who have the desire.  Things tend to prove more natural to those with the inclination towards them.  This is paramount over things like heredity, but elites take shape naturally with the course of events, but those with power see events afar off and their power far exceeds their immediate circle due to the power of suggestion.

- Dionysios

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1638
I suppose you would disagree on ground 3 as you have never advocated mass hatred and racism.
BUt surely you must have other grounds for opposing it some vehmently. I was simply enquiring what those grounds where.
In conclusion DIonysios I am not advocating or defending facism.
I am merely curious as to your reasons for opposing it, since they I assume differ from mine.
I have provided link from each place where I cite you to prevent misquoting.
I  await your responce with great interest.
Also depending on the length of that responce feel free to toss in why you feel my views tend to support facsim. Without misquoting me of course

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Cinlef
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James

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Fascism An Ominous Trend
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2006, 04:34:01 AM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
In this system, both parties are controlled by the same power so that when the public becomes dissatisfied with one of them (currently the Republicans), the other is brought into office and so on back and forth.  He goes into great detail of the history of this as the book is over 1300 pages.


This is entirely correct. It's obvious to me that all serious western political factions, in the UK, USA and Europe at least, are essentially one and the same. Arbitrary points of political bickering are chosen (abortion and immigration are two examples) and then redundantly fought about to distract the public from the REAL issues.

Quote from: "Cinlef"

You are therefore advocating illiteracy for all but a priviledged elite./ Facists regimes generally have priviledges elites.


Hitler, a typical fascist, actually believed in education and welfare for the working man at the expense of the rich (albeit Nazi education for the Aryan working man). Elitism is not necessarily a characteristic of fascism, just for the record. (By the way, I'm not a supporter of fascism or any form of statism)
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

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« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2006, 10:56:46 AM »
Dionysios do feel free to respond to my comments at any time
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joffenz

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« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2006, 11:59:32 AM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
Carroll Qiugley wrote a history of the world from 1891 to 1964 entitled 'Tragedy and Hope' in which he described a system designed by the British students of Professor Ruskin of Oxford (like Cecil Rhodes and Alfred Milner) which governs the world today. In this system, both parties are controlled by the same power so that when the public becomes dissatisfied with one of them (currently the Republicans), the other is brought into office and so on back and forth.  He goes into great detail of the history of this as the book is over 1300 pages.  

  Incidentally, Quigley met Bill Clinton in the 1960's and became his mentor as Clinton himself acknowledged when he made the keynote speech at the 1988 Democratic National Convention endorsing Michael Dukakis for President of the United States.  It was through Professor Quigley that Clinton initially made connections to this network of power.

- Dionysios


Hm...interesting.

Did you know that both Al Gore and George Bush are members of the same secret society??

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« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2006, 12:09:36 PM »
The Skull and crossbones thing from Yale? Yes I did which is an intriguingcomment on my paranoia. However my points remain valid
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Truth is great and will prevail-Thomas Jefferson

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Fascism An Ominous Trend
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2006, 03:14:33 PM »
Quote

Did you know that both Al Gore and George Bush are members of the same secret society??


And most of the presidents were masons, or so I heard
he man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

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Fascism An Ominous Trend
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2006, 08:58:28 PM »
Quote from: "CrimsonKing"
Quote

Did you know that both Al Gore and George Bush are members of the same secret society??


And most of the presidents were masons, or so I heard

So's my grandpa.

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Fascism An Ominous Trend
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2006, 11:07:21 PM »
Awesome, I dont agree with the society, them and Catholics have issues.  Noone can deny their influence and power in history.
he man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

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