Cause of Seasons and Other Astronomical Concepts Explained

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Cause of Seasons and Other Astronomical Concepts Explained
« on: July 06, 2006, 01:28:46 PM »
My general view of the cause of seasons is due largely to the sun.  This is explained rather adequately by Samuel Rowbotham as demonstrated in the following links which are chapters from his book 'Earth Not a Globe':

The Sun's Motion...
http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za24.htm

The Sun's Path Expands and Contracts Daily For Six Months Alternately
http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za25.htm

Cause of Day and Night, Winter and Summer...
http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za26.htm

  I also want to add that if the sun were actually 93,000,000 miles from a theoretically global earth as in the modern heliocentric model, then any significant deviation in distance between the two (due to a heliocentric earth being at the close or far points of an elliptical orbit) would cause a change of seasons for that entire globe, not only half of it.  The daily rotations would expose all the globe to the sun.  There would be no difference in seasons if the modern heliocentric model were true.

  Rowbotham's (and other) flat earth models demonstrate very reasonably the cause of a difference in seasons.  The bible and science concur with each other in this.  This also exposes the tenuous reasoning and falsity of heliocentric theory.  (Geocentrists would have less of a problem with this as would others who do not believe the sun is so far away.)

  I also want to add from personal experience that high altitudes in mountains tend to be cold, yet one is more apt to become seriously sunburned at such altitudes than otherwise.  Why?  Because one becomes quite simply closer to the sun when it passes overhead at such altitudes.  I was hiking this past May in the Himalayas of northern India to the source of the Ganges when my nose and upper back were sunburnt worse than all the times I have been in Egypt, Panama, or Hawaii.   I was closer to the sun at that high altitude.  I have also read in Lonely Planet guidebooks that high altitudes expose one to unusually bad sunburns so it is not an isolated case.  If the sun were 93,000,000 miles away, then a few thousand metres difference would not matter.  It did matter because the sun is both much smaller and much closer than heliocentric astronomy claims.

- Dionysios

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Shape

Cause of Seasons and Other Astronomical Concepts Explained
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2006, 01:36:35 PM »
Quote
The Earth goes through one complete precession cycle in a period of approximately 25,800 years, during which the positions of stars as measured in the equatorial coordinate system slowly change.

The change in celestial coordinates in relation to earth's topographic coordinates is due to the rotation of the earth's inclined axis of rotation in space, a retrograde motion in relation to orbit direction.

As a result, the year is shorter than solar orbit by the inverse of the precession period. A year is complete when the axis of rotation returns to the same direction in relation to the sun.

Over the precession cycle, the Earth's north axial pole moves from where it is now pointing, within 1 of Polaris, in a circle around the ecliptic pole, with a current angular radius of 23 degrees 27 arcminutes, or about 23.5 degrees.

The shift is 1 degree in 71.6 years (the angle is taken from the observer, not from the center of the circle).

The explanation of this is: The axis of the Earth undergoes precession due to a combination of the Earth's nonspherical shape (it is an oblate spheroid, bulging outward at the equator) and the gravitational tidal forces of the Moon and Sun applying torque as they attempt to pull the equatorial bulge into the plane of the ecliptic. The portion of the precession due to the combined action of the Sun and the Moon is called lunisolar precession.

http://www.crystalinks.com/precession.html






Cause of Seasons and Other Astronomical Concepts Explained
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2006, 01:53:07 PM »
Okay, I am going to reply to the above post despite the fact I said in the flat-earther-only-forum I had no desire to have recycled garbage thrown at me (which would surely ensue).

  The reply posted above by 'Shape' is without comment, but it is not necessary as we get the point - it is the modern alternative to the radically different model I posted just above it.

  The fact that 'Shape' posted this only moments after I posted is an indication they did not digest the point I had made initially that in the model 'Shape' posted which adheres to heliocentric astronomy, there would be no difference of seasons while the flat earth model I presented accoounts for the difference of seasons quite satisfactorily.

  I request that before some of you angrily lash out at the above statement, please first read my initial post and understand the logic behind statements I make like saying that flat earthism accounts for seasonal differene whereas heliocentrism's explanation of seasonal differences is beyond tenuous.

- Dionysios

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Shape

Cause of Seasons and Other Astronomical Concepts Explained
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2006, 02:03:50 PM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
Okay, I am going to reply to the above

  The reply posted above by Fifi is without comment,

  The fact that Fifi posted this

- Dionysios


...  Fifi?

Taos Hum, Tones of Planet Earth
http://www.crystalinks.com/taoshum.html
Theory of Intelligent Design
http://www.crystalinks.com/intelligentdesign.html

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Rick_James

  • The Elder Ones
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Cause of Seasons and Other Astronomical Concepts Explained
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2006, 04:20:30 PM »
Lol..... gg man you're now Fifi :lol:

Cause of Seasons and Other Astronomical Concepts Explained
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2006, 11:13:15 AM »
Okay, very funny.  We made a typo.  There were a couple of postings made in this category made immediately before that with the username 'Fifi.'

  Pardon me for being so focused on the material that I mistook the name of the poster.  The mistake has been corrected as you will notice.

  It is a little funny, though.

- Dionysios

Cause of Seasons and Other Astronomical Concepts Explained
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2006, 12:15:59 PM »
Quote
I also want to add from personal experience that high altitudes in mountains tend to be cold, yet one is more apt to become seriously sunburned at such altitudes than otherwise. Why?


Good question.

The reason you get sunburned @ high altitude is the same reason you get sunburned on/near the water. Sunlight reflects off snow, ice, and water very well. More sunlight reflected = more sunlight hitting you = sunburn.

This would not be the case if you were hiking in an high altitude environment without snow/ice/water reflecting sunlight back towards you.

@ this high altitude did the sun/moon seem a great % larger? Or did it seem about the same size as @ sea-level? (you don't have to answer that. my neighbor is a pilot. i has observed this with my own eyes. when we fly the sun looks the same size regardless of altitude, due to the fact is is 1 astronomical unit away, and not a mear 32 miles. You can however get a VERY good look @ the sun rising/falling over the horizon @ that altitude)
verybody knows you can conjure anything by the dark of the Moon. - Tori Amos

Cause of Seasons and Other Astronomical Concepts Explained
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2006, 04:13:00 AM »
As a matter of fact, there was no snow anywhere near my vicinity during my Himalayan trek as it was in the summer.  When the sun shone it was bright and hot.  There were also gusts of wind, and it got very cold at night in spite of the fact it was summer because the altitude was so high.  So the reflection theory would not apply to my experience.

  It would also not apply in other extremely high areas in summer either.  I actually think the reflection theory to explain this is ridiculous and not from common sense alone, as I have read in 'Lonely Planet China' that extreme heat is encountered in summer (i.e. when there is no snow) in some of the high altitude areas of Tibet when one can often experience bitter cold on the very same day in the same place.  The guidebook stresses that the areas are subject to extremes of temperature even in the same season and even the same day.

  The fact that the sun is closer to the high areas described is due to their altitude making them near the sun when it passes daily is the reason for the extreme heat as is explained in the flat earth model, but not in the heliocentric one.  Therefore, advocates of heliocentric theory think of anomolous and arbitrary (and absurd) reasons to explain this away, such as reflection of heat from snow.
  The eskimoes would fry if that were true.

- Dionysios

Cause of Seasons and Other Astronomical Concepts Explained
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2006, 02:00:26 PM »
Quote
I actually think the reflection theory to explain this is ridiculous and not from common sense alone


Try this...
get a buddy together with you. One of you go hang out on a boat. the other away from water. Make sure you are both in the sun for the same amount of time during the same part of the day under similar weather conditions. Then have the sunburned guy on the boat log on to this forum and call me a liar. I KNOW water reflects light. I have been there, I have gotten burned on several occasions due to it.

Wind also burns/chafes/chaps the skin. You said it was windy. Do you have a medical degree that can differentiate between a sunburn and a windburn?

Also as absurd as it sounds, just get in a damn airplane. Nothing fancy, nothing elaborate; any small prop plane* will do. Get the pilot to take you over ANY large body of water. A few thousand feet will do it. The curvature of the earth is apparent. No light and smoke. No fancy mirror trick. no government conspiracy. just a beautiful sunset over a curved horizon. it would be a enlightening (and possibly spiritual) experience for you.

* = Airplanes rent out around $60-120 an hour (American) plus the cost of fuel. So for less than $200 dollars you should be able to hit the coast, unless you are right in the middle of a continent.
verybody knows you can conjure anything by the dark of the Moon. - Tori Amos

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6strings

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Cause of Seasons and Other Astronomical Concepts Explained
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2006, 02:42:53 PM »
Quote
Do you have a medical degree that can differentiate between a sunburn and a windburn?

You know, I never knew that a piece of paper could diagnose anything, let alone sunburn and windburn...

Cause of Seasons and Other Astronomical Concepts Explained
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2006, 02:48:39 PM »
I am not doubting that water can reflect light, but the sea level situation you described is different from the high altitude mountainous situation which I described.

  As far as airplane flights over coasts, I have flown over the following coasts in airplanes and never observed the phony curvature you imagine:

Australia (East Coast of Sydney on Pacific Ocean)
Australia (West Coast of Adelaide on Indian Ocean)
China (Tianjin near Beijing)
China (Hong Kong)
India (Along the Entirety of the Western Coast From Kerala to Mumbai/Bombay)
India (Arabian Gulf at Bombay)
Oman (Arabian Gulf)
United Arab Emirates (Persian Gulf)
Yemen (Arabian Gulf)
Kenya (Indian Ocean)
Egypt (Where the Nile Delta Meets the Mediterranean Sea)
Palestine (Th Mediterranean Coast at Tel Aviv)
Cyprus (West Coast at Paphos)
Cyprus (East Coast at Larnaka)
Greece (Attica and Agean Sea)
Greece (West Coast on Adriatic Sea)
Italy (East Coast on Adriatic Sea)
Italy (West Coast)
France (West Coast)
Britain (East & West Coasts)
Ireland (East & West Coasts)
Spain (East Coast on Mediterranean)
Spain (West Coast on Atlantic)
New York & Long Island
Lake Eerie
New Orleans (Lake Pontchartrain as well as Gulf of Mexico Coast)
California West Coast

  Perhaps you have flown over more coasts, but I think what you actually have more of is prejudice of what you want to see rather than what actually is reality.

  You seem to have assumed that I had never been in an airplane or was some kind of little travelled and ignorant hick in the "middle of the continent" due to the fact that I believe the earth is flat.  Perhaps you should reassess this as well as certain of your other assumptions (i.e. curvature of the earth) as well.

- Dionysios

Cause of Seasons and Other Astronomical Concepts Explained
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2006, 02:52:43 PM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"


Perhaps you have flown over more coasts, but I think what you actually have more of is prejudice of what you want to see rather than what actually is reality.

- Dionysios


Keep this up, and you'll be a kettle in no time.
'm not a flat earther. I just play one on TV.

Cause of Seasons and Other Astronomical Concepts Explained
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2006, 03:01:46 PM »
Ha, ha.  You very funny man.

- Dionysios

Cause of Seasons and Other Astronomical Concepts Explained
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2006, 03:04:27 PM »
I can count on the fingers of one hand how many times I have agreed with 6strings, and the statement about the real value of most degree certificates is one of them.

- Dionysios

Cause of Seasons and Other Astronomical Concepts Explained
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2006, 03:06:35 PM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
Ha, ha.  You very funny man.

- Dionysios

I am a woman, thanks, and not attemtping to be funny. Just more observant than you, obviously,  or you'd see how your statements are contextually absurd and serve as red flags in your own arguments.

I mean, I'm a pretty open-minded person and I don't mind a few conspiracy theories now and again, but if you're going to go up againts the rest of the world, you better have infallible logic that doesn't, instead, refute your own statements.
'm not a flat earther. I just play one on TV.

Cause of Seasons and Other Astronomical Concepts Explained
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2006, 03:25:56 PM »
Okay there jitterbug, I had apparently mistakenly presumed that the kettle comment was a joke about the heat from all the water I had flown over as per Feralkitten's post about heat reflection.

  The only substantiation you have offered for the accusation about contradictory statements is the self-praise that you are more observant.  By the way, you will find round earthers on this forum who acknowledge that flat earth logic is irrefutable.  

  I simply believe what the Bible and true science both indicate.  That is infallible as far I am believe.  I never pretended or ever aspired to win a popularity contest, but one advantage I do have is posession of the truth.  

- Dionysios

Cause of Seasons and Other Astronomical Concepts Explained
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2006, 03:33:44 PM »
Oh, you believe everything in the Bible. That explains it. :)

BTW, you seem to be again playing pot-kettle, saying that I am self-praising, while you declare that you have possession of the truth, implying, of course, that others who believe differently do not. What is your definition of "True Sceince"? Anything that doesn't call into question what is biblical?

Just so you know, I'm not an arbitrary basher of religion or Christianity, nor am I uniformed about what is in the Bible. In fact, I'd be hard-pressed to find someone who had equal indoctrination to me through their life. Because of that, I will respect your beliefs and not take this argument any further down the doctrinal path.

Ciao! I've got subserviant woman work to do. :)
'm not a flat earther. I just play one on TV.

Cause of Seasons and Other Astronomical Concepts Explained
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2006, 03:52:15 PM »
You are correct that the Bible is the basis of my belief.  It would be even  more precise to say that the Orthodox Church is the foundation of my belief.

  I do indeed believe that people who disagree with the dogma of the Orthodox Church in particular do not have the truth.  And I do not apologize for this as I believe and know for a fact that the Orthodox Church is exclusively the Truth of God.

  I believe that those who oppose flat earthism are wrong and as ignorant as they are prejudiced.  I have never encountered a believer in a globularist world who was deeply understnading as to cosmological concepts and intelligence, but that is a subject of lesser importance when compared with the Orthodox Church.  It is never the less the topic under discussion here.

  Briefly stated, my definition of true science is that science which is subservient to the Orthodox Church.  I believe the right purpose of science is to be a servant of the religion of God.  I believe any science which does not do this is abnormal reguardless of any vestiges of truth it may contain.  I believe that sciences estranged from God definitely tend to increase in error and loss of truth.

- Dionysios

Cause of Seasons and Other Astronomical Concepts Explained
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2006, 03:56:41 PM »
In other words, your brain has stopped developing since 2 days after your birth.

Cause of Seasons and Other Astronomical Concepts Explained
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2006, 03:59:02 PM »
You are an ignorant man without understanding of the issue and whose statement is indicative of your anti-religious prejudice.

  I began reading books and acquired a dep interest in knowledge when i was in college, but this was not because of college at all.  This led to my dropping out of college.  This was a tremendous boon to my acquisition of knowledge.  I have since acquired a personal library of over five thousand books on theology, history , and science and pratical subjects.   The basis and centre of all the acquisition of knowledge is the knowledge of God.

- Dionysios

Cause of Seasons and Other Astronomical Concepts Explained
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2006, 04:01:51 PM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
You are an ignorant man.

- Dionysios


Hell yeah, Im very ignorant.

But how ignorant are you?

You enjoy pissing people off and making them all eager to find proof against something you don't even believe.

Cause of Seasons and Other Astronomical Concepts Explained
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2006, 04:07:25 PM »
See my extended statement above made while you were posting.  You seem to be the one trying to make me angry, but I have a question for you.

 What is it you say I do not even believe?  If it is what I think you mean, I am certain you would swallow that statement after you had known me long enough as I definitely believe what I posted above.  I not only have the truth, but sincerity as well.  Can you say that as to your statement about claiming ignorance?  If people get angry with what I have stated here, then it is because they have a problem with the truth.  I admit I am blunt, but if you want sweet lies, then you are corresponding with the wrong individual.

- Dionysios

Cause of Seasons and Other Astronomical Concepts Explained
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2006, 04:15:43 PM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"


  I began reading books and acquired a dep interest in knowledge when i was in college, but this was not because of college at all.  This led to my dropping out of college.  This was a tremendous boon to my acquisition of knowledge. I have since acquired a personal library of over five thousand books on theology, history , and science and pratical subjects.   The basis and centre of all the acquisition of knowledge is the knowledge of God.

- Dionysios


This seems a little counter-intuitive, but that's not really the point as I can see it could be possible. I know that I have learned a great amount from personal experience and personal investigation.

I do have one question for you, though. In your expansive library of 5,000 books, how many of them agree with eachother? How much of your library is comprised of texts that serve to support eachother and what percentage offer alternative viewpoints to the ones you believe? I've seen a great deal of Christians who claim to know the truth of God and the falsehoods of other religions, but when you search their library, you'll rarely find a Koran or the I Ching, or even a book on other faiths written by a non-Christian source.


The only way to find the truth is to weigh all sides, not just those that support your beliefs. Belief is NOT truth.
'm not a flat earther. I just play one on TV.

Cause of Seasons and Other Astronomical Concepts Explained
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2006, 04:16:41 PM »
jitterbug is a genius.

Cause of Seasons and Other Astronomical Concepts Explained
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2006, 04:20:37 PM »
Excuse me for never really considering that people would be persecuted on an online forum for believing in a flat Earth.

Persecuted.  On a forum.  Seriously, that's pretty lame.
ttp://theflatearthsociety.org/forums/search.php

"Against criticism a man can neither protest nor defend himself; he must act in spite of it, and then it will gradually yield to him." -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Cause of Seasons and Other Astronomical Concepts Explained
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2006, 04:23:30 PM »
Quote from: "Mephistopheles"
Excuse me for never really considering that people would be persecuted on an online forum for believing in a flat Earth.

Persecuted.  On a forum.  Seriously, that's pretty lame.


Have you considered how lame it is to believe in a flat earth?

Cause of Seasons and Other Astronomical Concepts Explained
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2006, 04:25:28 PM »
Quote from: "Dr. Bakerfield"
Have you considered how lame it is to believe in a flat earth?


This should only strengthen my point.
ttp://theflatearthsociety.org/forums/search.php

"Against criticism a man can neither protest nor defend himself; he must act in spite of it, and then it will gradually yield to him." -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Cause of Seasons and Other Astronomical Concepts Explained
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2006, 04:35:17 PM »
Quote from: "Mephistopheles"
Excuse me for never really considering that people would be persecuted on an online forum for believing in a flat Earth.

Persecuted.  On a forum.  Seriously, that's pretty lame.


I haven't noticed anyone tied to a stake or held in stocks, but if it makes you feel more right to think you're presecuted, go for it. It's been working for the evangelicals for years. :)
'm not a flat earther. I just play one on TV.

Cause of Seasons and Other Astronomical Concepts Explained
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2006, 04:37:45 PM »
I am not being persecuted here.  Atleast I don't think I am.

But if you'd care to take a look at alot of the posts on this forum, you'll see what I'm talking about.
ttp://theflatearthsociety.org/forums/search.php

"Against criticism a man can neither protest nor defend himself; he must act in spite of it, and then it will gradually yield to him." -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Cause of Seasons and Other Astronomical Concepts Explained
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2006, 04:53:41 PM »
jitterbug,

  I do have the I-Ching by Fu-Hsi and see it more as scientific book, though I know it has ben used as a religious book by the Taoists.  I also have the Tao Te-Ching by Lao Tsu which I do not see a contradiction with.  I also hav histories of Taoism.  However, I do know that it has changed over time.  This is illustrated in a magazine specializing in Taoism which i have all the back issues of entitled 'The Empty Vessel.'  I have seen an intriguing quote of Lao Tsu where he stated that the 'Three' created all things used as a justification that he was one of the pre-Christian gentiles who knew the true God like the Sibylline prophetesses were.  The modern Taoists intrepret this differently, of course, as Heaven, Man, and Earth being the three.  Around the time the Church began, taoism seems to have become flooded with new doctrines like alchemy and pantheism which seem absent in its early centuries.  It SEEMS to me that rejection of God led that religion to be givn over to demons about that time, but older books like the I-Ching are indeed interesting.  I believe the best version in english is that published by the Yo San University of Traditional Chinese Medicine in Culver City, California (Los Angeles).

  I could go on about Taoism, but to answer your question about islam, I deliberatley do not own a copy of the Koran.  Being just a little familiar with church history, I know that while travelling as a young boy with his merchant uncle in a caravan which stopped in the city of Bosrah in southern Syria, Mohammed met a nestorian monk named Boheira who became his mentor and developed a plan for him to found a new religion.  This is why muslims agree with the blasphemous nestorian doctrine that Jesus Christ was Man and not God as muslims claim He is only a prophet.  This story is part of muslim tradition, and I have many books by muslim historians in my library as I have visited muslim bookstores in Brooklyn, New York, Berkeley and Fremont, California and Nairobi, Kenya.  I also intend to visit muslim bookstores on my visit to Egypt and Syria next week after departing Ethiopia.  I probably have more books by muslim historians than most muslims, and this includes scientific history such as how late mdieval roman catholics and western europe derived all their science from muslim scholars.  I could go on about the arab section of my library as well, but perhaps you get th idea.

  Any other religion you want to know about contained inmy library?

- Dionysios