Why did God create Atheists?

So therefore science does not 'support the God hypothesis'.

I'm sure God will be devastated when he hears that.

Quote from: Lord Wilmore on August 21, 2009, 12:38:14 PM

So therefore science does not 'support the God hypothesis'.

I'm sure God will be devastated when he hears that.

If god was real he would know that science doesn't support his existence.

There's no scientific reason to believe in God, only spiritual ones.  But it is heartening to me to see that so many atheists seem to agree with me that Dawkins was spouting bullshit when he said that God is a phenomenon that can reasonably be examined scientifically.  I think we're making progress.

Can you tell me what he said exactly because I didn't read the whole thing but I got a different take on it. 

I'm wondering: God the concept, or god the actual supernatural entity?

The belief in the concept of god arising when it's conclusively false is already examined by mutually exclusive comparative religions and fake religions started for study. Teaching children to pray to a knowingly made up god, some will come to experience that god, have revelations of that god, and cling to the god very strongly. Unwavering absolute and even delusional faith, sets the brain up to perceive things with respect to those beliefs. It's examining the psychology behind a god figure that can be investigated scientifically.

God the being however, must have played a physical role and thus have had a measurable influence on our universe. A fish in a opaque fish tank may not be able to investigate the people who feed it, but they can see influences of the people like little pellets of food dropping from the sky. Unfortunately, god's absolute inactivity while we are alive (and degrading evidence from his creation days of intervening) would seem to make it impossible for us to investigate him.

Wow you guys really wandered off from the original question. This is not supposed to be about God's existance.

Welcome to TFES

And now that I brought that up everyone stopped talking...

That's because they finally accepted God into their hearts

Before we start this let me remind you that God is all knowing. He knows the past, present, and FUTURE

So, in a Christian perspective, why did God create Atheists?

And don't tell me he did not, God is ALL KNOWING, remember? That means at the end of the day he knows ultimately what our decision will be, so don't you "free will" me. He knows.

Why does He create people designed to go to Hell?

Assuming hypothetically that the God the bible describes does exist, he didn't create atheists, he didn't create people to go to hell, what he did was to create free will and give every soul the choice of believing or disbelieving

If he had not created free will what would be the point of life? we would all be unthinking mindless organ sacks

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Well, in a sense. There is, however, the possibility that the Universe always existed, but for the majority of its history it was a largely featureless void with minor fluctuations in density. The further back in time you go, the closer it gets to total homogeneity, but it never quite reaches it, so there are no disturbances within it that can actually be said to have come from nothing. Alternatively, it could have sprung up from a black hole in another universe or - a personal favourite of mine, at least conceptually - a black hole within itself, thus creating itself. Even if you don't subscribe to any of these theories, the fact that they exist and are demonstrably less complex than the God hypothesis means that there are simpler ways of explaining our existence than saying "God did it".

Well, that's great that science has come up with a laundry list of highly speculative theories for the ultimate origin of the universe that don't need God.  It's interesting that you agree now that it's possible for something to have created itself.

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Or, that only a universe which happened to form with such well-defined laws could produce beings capable of observing it.

While this is possible, it's pure bias to see it as likely.

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To speculate, yes. But then you realise that such a construct would only raise the question of where the Creator came from. As you said yourself, something doesn't come from nothing, and an omnipotent being is a significantly bigger "something" to explain than a natural universe.

Well, I disagree.  Why assume that the spontaneous event that triggered the creation of the universe wasn't an infinitely complex one?  To me, that seems more likely.  If a black hole can create itself, a Creator can create Himself.

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How is it rational to assume otherwise? I see no evidence whatsoever which points toward a purpose for us, so I default to the simplest possible explanation - that there isn't one. Purpose suggests a highly ordered universe, and that only raises the question of where that order came from.

Purpose suggests a highly ordered universe, which is exactly what we observe.  The question of where that order came from has always been there.

This is really weird.

If he had not created free will what would be the point of life? we would all be unthinking mindless organ sacks

But being an unthinking, mindless organ sack is the only way to get into heaven.

Quote from: Robosteve on August 21, 2009, 11:48:00 AM

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Well, in a sense. There is, however, the possibility that the Universe always existed, but for the majority of its history it was a largely featureless void with minor fluctuations in density. The further back in time you go, the closer it gets to total homogeneity, but it never quite reaches it, so there are no disturbances within it that can actually be said to have come from nothing. Alternatively, it could have sprung up from a black hole in another universe or - a personal favourite of mine, at least conceptually - a black hole within itself, thus creating itself. Even if you don't subscribe to any of these theories, the fact that they exist and are demonstrably less complex than the God hypothesis means that there are simpler ways of explaining our existence than saying "God did it".

Well, that's great that science has come up with a laundry list of highly speculative theories for the ultimate origin of the universe that don't need God.  It's interesting that you agree now that it's possible for something to have created itself.

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Or, that only a universe which happened to form with such well-defined laws could produce beings capable of observing it.

While this is possible, it's pure bias to see it as likely.

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To speculate, yes. But then you realise that such a construct would only raise the question of where the Creator came from. As you said yourself, something doesn't come from nothing, and an omnipotent being is a significantly bigger "something" to explain than a natural universe.

Well, I disagree.  Why assume that the spontaneous event that triggered the creation of the universe wasn't an infinitely complex one?  To me, that seems more likely.  If a black hole can create itself, a Creator can create Himself.

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How is it rational to assume otherwise? I see no evidence whatsoever which points toward a purpose for us, so I default to the simplest possible explanation - that there isn't one. Purpose suggests a highly ordered universe, and that only raises the question of where that order came from.

Purpose suggests a highly ordered universe, which is exactly what we observe.  The question of where that order came from has always been there.

This is really weird.

Why was my post edited?

Assuming hypothetically that the God the bible describes does exist, he didn't create atheists, he didn't create people to go to hell, what he did was to create free will and give every soul the choice of believing or disbelieving

If he had not created free will what would be the point of life? we would all be unthinking mindless organ sacks

You missed the point. I'm talking about God's omniscience or whever it is called for all knowing. Sure he gave us free will, but that doesn't change the fact that He KNOWS what we're going to do.

Example, you are about to put on a red shirt. Than you think, hmm, but God knows I'm ganna wear this shirt, so I'll try this yellow one. But no, God knew you were going to do that too. You see what I'm saying? It's already pointless if you ask me, and if you think about it, it's impossible to execute free will. Let me explain. Actually, I'll make a different thread about it.

Before we start this let me remind you that God is all knowing. He knows the past, present, and FUTURE

There is one thing this god does not know.

It does not know how to get itself lost.

Just because he "knows" doesn't mean he could or want to do anything about it.

Think of how boring life would be if we were all perfect christians. Even God doesn't want that.

So god wants to be entertained?  Also who said anything about christianity, he just said god, that could be for any religion.

To answer your question though, god didn't make atheists, we made ourselves, other people who were looking for an easier answer created god. 

To answer your question though, god didn't make atheists, we made ourselves, other people who were looking for an easier answer created god. 

I am very much of the opinion that an easy answer is better than no conceivable answer at all.

Quote from: loki700 on September 17, 2009, 02:42:44 PM

To answer your question though, god didn't make atheists, we made ourselves, other people who were looking for an easier answer created god. 

I am very much of the opinion that an easy answer is better than no conceivable answer at all.

I am not going to get into this debate as that is not what this thread was created for. 

Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on September 17, 2009, 02:55:44 PM

Quote from: loki700 on September 17, 2009, 02:42:44 PM

To answer your question though, god didn't make atheists, we made ourselves, other people who were looking for an easier answer created god. 

I am very much of the opinion that an easy answer is better than no conceivable answer at all.

I am not going to get into this debate as that is not what this thread was created for. 

How very passive-aggressive of you.

You could just go create a thread about it. I'd be happy to post my two cents in there.

That's a pretty easy question for any good (I don't use good in an affectionate way here!) apologetic to answer. In fact I'd bet that if you go to some site like carm.org they'll probably have a section on that very question.

Quote from: Fink on August 18, 2009, 05:55:35 PM

Just because he "knows" doesn't mean he could or want to do anything about it.

Think of how boring life would be if we were all perfect christians. Even God doesn't want that.

So god wants to be entertained?  Also who said anything about christianity, he just said god, that could be for any religion.

To answer your question though, god didn't make atheists, we made ourselves, other people who were looking for an easier answer created god. 

God created us knowing we will become atheists.

You could just go create a thread about it. I'd be happy to post my two cents in there.

Ok, wendy and roundy, i've made the thread, if you do want to put in your two cents put them in there.

I don't want to derail this thread so carry on with the discussion.