Melanin Theory

Quote from: EnigmaZV on September 17, 2010, 12:28:27 PM

Quote

1. Reinforced carbon-carbon is used on the wing leading edges; the nose cap, including an area immediately aft  of the nose cap on the lower surface (chine panel); and the immediate area around the forward orbiter/external tank structural attachment. RCC protects areas where temperatures exceed 2,300 F during entry.

2. Black high-temperature reusable surface insulation (HRSI) tiles are used in areas on the upper forward fuselage, including around the forward fuselage windows; the entire underside of the vehicle where RCC is not used; portions of the orbital maneuvering system and reaction control system pods; the leading and trailing edges of the vertical stabilizer; wing glove areas; elevon trailing edges; adjacent to the RCC on the upper wing surface; the base heat shield; the interface with wing leading edge RCC; and the upper body flap surface. The HRSI tiles protect areas where temperatures are below 2,300 F. These tiles have a black surface coating necessary for entry emittance.

So it looks like the RCC is used on the nose and leading edge of the wing, like I said, and silica tiles coated in silicon cover the rest of the underside of the shuttle, I'm glad we got that cleared up.

obviously not...that article is from 1988

So are you saying that your source is not valid?

http://www.nachohat.org/gallery/rockets_buran_space_shuttle/buran_space_shuttle_04

heres a pic of a russian shuttle...the underside is made of carbon tiles

I did some poking around, it looks like the Buran space shuttle used ceramic tiles on its underside for thermal protection.

For the BURAN orbiter three kinds of thermal protection were developed including forty thousand tiles of ceramic thermal protection tiles that surpass the strength of the materials used in the USA Space Shuttle construction.

Source

Just FYI, ceramics are mostly made of silicon.

Quote from: muur on September 17, 2010, 12:25:26 PM

http://www.nachohat.org/gallery/rockets_buran_space_shuttle/buran_space_shuttle_04

heres a pic of a russian shuttle...the underside is made of carbon tiles

I did some poking around, it looks like the Buran space shuttle used ceramic tiles on its underside for thermal protection.

Quote

For the BURAN orbiter three kinds of thermal protection were developed including forty thousand tiles of ceramic thermal protection tiles that surpass the strength of the materials used in the USA Space Shuttle construction.

Source

Just FYI, ceramics are mostly made of silicon.

then maybe you can explain Why? this substance ends up black...i guess for decorative purposes huh

It's probably black for very similar reasons to why the tiles on the NASA shuttles are black as referenced in your article:

The HRSI  tiles are coated on the top and sides with a mixture of powdered tetrasilicide and borosilicate glass with a liquid carrier. This material is sprayed on the tile to coating thicknesses of 16 to 18 mils. The coated tiles then are placed in an oven and heated to a temperature of 2,300 F. This results in a black, waterproof glossy coating that has a surface emittance of 0.85 and a solar absorptance of about 0.85. After the ceramic coating heating process, the remaining silica fibers are treated with a silicon resin to provide bulk waterproofing.

Not everything that is black is made of carbon, some other elements which in pure form can be black include arsenic, silicon and selenium to name a few off the top of my head.

EDIT: I forgot that under certain conditions phosphorus can also be black.

It's probably black for very similar reasons to why the tiles on the NASA shuttles are black as referenced in your article:

Quote

The HRSI  tiles are coated on the top and sides with a mixture of powdered tetrasilicide and borosilicate glass with a liquid carrier. This material is sprayed on the tile to coating thicknesses of 16 to 18 mils. The coated tiles then are placed in an oven and heated to a temperature of 2,300 F. This results in a black, waterproof glossy coating that has a surface emittance of 0.85 and a solar absorptance of about 0.85. After the ceramic coating heating process, the remaining silica fibers are treated with a silicon resin to provide bulk waterproofing.

Not everything that is black is made of carbon, some other elements which in pure form can be black include arsenic, silicon and selenium to name a few off the top of my head.

ur right but obviously the undersides of ALL todays shuttles Are coated with Reinforced Carbon-Carbon (RCC), insulative tiles...that happen to Always end up Black

ur right but obviously the undersides of ALL todays shuttles Are coated with Reinforced Carbon-Carbon (RCC), insulative tiles...that happen to Always end up Black

Source?

EDIT: I'm requesting a source that says that 1) RCC comes in tiles, and 2) RCC is all that is used.

Also, I'd like a source that stipulates that the colour of the tiles is relevant to its performance.  They're not black because it's the best colour for re-entry or because it looks cool, if the tiles ended up being orange, NASA wouldn't have cared one bit, they would have used Black carbon nose pieces with orange ceramic tiles, it's not a beauty contest.

Quote from: muur on September 17, 2010, 12:49:16 PM

ur right but obviously the undersides of ALL todays shuttles Are coated with Reinforced Carbon-Carbon (RCC), insulative tiles...that happen to Always end up Black

Source?

EDIT: I'm requesting a source that says that 1) RCC comes in tiles, and 2) RCC is all that is used.

look underneath Any of todays shuttles...and u will see little square objects...these are TILES

http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/everydaylife/nasm_enterprise_prt.htm

look close

Quote from: EnigmaZV on September 17, 2010, 12:51:05 PM

Quote from: muur on September 17, 2010, 12:49:16 PM

ur right but obviously the undersides of ALL todays shuttles Are coated with Reinforced Carbon-Carbon (RCC), insulative tiles...that happen to Always end up Black

Source?

EDIT: I'm requesting a source that says that 1) RCC comes in tiles, and 2) RCC is all that is used.

look underneath Any of todays shuttles...and u will see little square objects...these are TILES

But are those tiles made of RCC? that is what you need to prove. yes the leading edges use RCC. check your source and make sure they are not just talking about the RCC being on the leading edge.

Quote from: muur on September 17, 2010, 01:00:15 PM

Quote from: EnigmaZV on September 17, 2010, 12:51:05 PM

Quote from: muur on September 17, 2010, 12:49:16 PM

ur right but obviously the undersides of ALL todays shuttles Are coated with Reinforced Carbon-Carbon (RCC), insulative tiles...that happen to Always end up Black

Source?

EDIT: I'm requesting a source that says that 1) RCC comes in tiles, and 2) RCC is all that is used.

look underneath Any of todays shuttles...and u will see little square objects...these are TILES

But are those tiles made of RCC? that is what you need to prove. yes the leading edges use RCC. check your source and make sure they are not just talking about the RCC being on the leading edge.

i dont Need to prove anything from THAT article from 1988

Quote from: optimisticcynic on September 17, 2010, 01:06:14 PM

Quote from: muur on September 17, 2010, 01:00:15 PM

Quote from: EnigmaZV on September 17, 2010, 12:51:05 PM

Quote from: muur on September 17, 2010, 12:49:16 PM

ur right but obviously the undersides of ALL todays shuttles Are coated with Reinforced Carbon-Carbon (RCC), insulative tiles...that happen to Always end up Black

Source?

EDIT: I'm requesting a source that says that 1) RCC comes in tiles, and 2) RCC is all that is used.

look underneath Any of todays shuttles...and u will see little square objects...these are TILES

But are those tiles made of RCC? that is what you need to prove. yes the leading edges use RCC. check your source and make sure they are not just talking about the RCC being on the leading edge.

i dont Need to prove anything from THAT article from 1988

I don't care what article you use. you just need to find a source to back up your claim.

http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/everydaylife/nasm_enterprise_prt.htm

look close

I also see white tiles, and a grey nosepiece.

Also, this source I found at NASA looks like essentially the same document you showed us before, but updated to 1994.


EDIT: It also looks as though the Shuttle Enterprise never made it to space, and was a pre80s aerodynamic test vehicle, that means that a source from 1988 would probably accurately reflect what materials were used on the surface of that shuttle.

ohhh i see you already know all the shuttles are coated with this Black substance...ALL of them are black underneath

ohhh i see you already know all the shuttles are coated with this Black substance...ALL of them are black underneath

Yes, but the tiles are made of silicon, what does that have to do with melanin?

ohhh i see you already know all the shuttles are coated with this Black substance...ALL of them are black underneath

umm. you know all the shuttles are made of one of two groups and there are less then 20 total in the world. why would each shuttle be made differently?
i fail to see how the fact they are all black proves anything about carbon. it just shows they are made using the same concepts. so in short, yes it isn't that hard to know about all shuttles and B they will probably use the same materials.

...ALL the shuttles are black underneath...are made of carbon tiles that absorb extreme temps...there are also while tiles but places in areas of the shuttle where temps dont reach those extreme temps

Quote from: muur on September 17, 2010, 01:32:37 PM

ohhh i see you already know all the shuttles are coated with this Black substance...ALL of them are black underneath

Yes, but the tiles are made of silicon, what does that have to do with melanin?

its the carbon in the skin that gives it its black color (melanin) and can absorb heat quite well...thus allowing it to evenly distributed in such a manner that the body Doesnt overheat and cause DNA damage

http://www.awesomestories.com/disasters/columbia-disaster/the-heat-tiles

Coated black ceramic tiles (known as High-Temperature Reusable Surface Insulation) cover  many areas of the shuttle. They are found on its lower surface; in areas around the forward windows; on its upper body flap; at the base heat shield; on the "eyeballs" at the front of the Orbital Maneuvering System (OMS) pods; and on the leading and trailing edges of the vertical stabilizer and the rudder speed brake. Black tiles are located where temperatures on the outside of the shuttle are extreme.

This seems to be the same information as on the other site you said you didn't like because it was from 1988, that I found a replacement for dated 1994.

Mmmm....arent you guys missing the obvious? Coal and other fossil fuels are mostly carbon, burn quite nicely, and are virtually worthless otherwise.  Carbon can do some pretty cool things when arranged right, but there isnt anything magical about it, nor is there about melanin.

Mmmm....arent you guys missing the obvious? Coal and other fossil fuels are mostly carbon, burn quite nicely, and are virtually worthless otherwise.  Carbon can do some pretty cool things when arranged right, but there isnt anything magical about it, nor is there about melanin.

Ur right i guess it would take more than magic to cure skin cancer

Quote from: EireEngineer on September 17, 2010, 06:52:35 PM

Mmmm....arent you guys missing the obvious? Coal and other fossil fuels are mostly carbon, burn quite nicely, and are virtually worthless otherwise.  Carbon can do some pretty cool things when arranged right, but there isnt anything magical about it, nor is there about melanin.

Ur right i guess it would take more than magic to cure skin cancer

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL 

Quote from: EireEngineer on September 17, 2010, 06:52:35 PM

Mmmm....arent you guys missing the obvious? Coal and other fossil fuels are mostly carbon, burn quite nicely, and are virtually worthless otherwise.  Carbon can do some pretty cool things when arranged right, but there isnt anything magical about it, nor is there about melanin.

Ur right i guess it would take more than magic to cure skin cancer

I just think that it is funny that you are ascribing all of this to carbon, when all of the components of skin, white, black, and clear,  and the human body in general, are carbon.

Carbon would be the 3rd most abundant element present in the human body.

Quote from: EnigmaZV on September 17, 2010, 01:35:55 PM

Quote from: muur on September 17, 2010, 01:32:37 PM

ohhh i see you already know all the shuttles are coated with this Black substance...ALL of them are black underneath

Yes, but the tiles are made of silicon, what does that have to do with melanin?

its the carbon in the skin that gives it its black color (melanin) and can absorb heat quite well...thus allowing it to evenly distributed in such a manner that the body Doesnt overheat and cause DNA damage

Actually, melanin absorbs UV light and turns it into heat. You have that backwards.

Oh dear God this is hilarious! 

Carbon would be the 3rd most abundant element present in the human body.

And I have also seen it listed as the second most common, but either way its mostly oxygen, hydrogen, and carbon.

sure ur right BUT the carbon (in the form of melanin) reaches its Highest complexity in the black human...we hav More of it. Melanins are in plants (in the form if chlorophyll) and even fungus (which is inbetween  a plant and animal). The color of and any Organic matter depends on how much carbon it contains..even soil. The darker the matter..the MORE carbon it contains

the MAIN proof eumelanin (and its photophotective properties)  is More complex in black humans is that u need a higher intellect to even manufacture it. This involves  a complex process  involving  the pineal and pituitary gland, photon emissions, H20 dispersment,  krebs cycle …among others 
these instructions Start in the brain (not when the sun hits the skin). 
The opical properties of eumelanin (dark) allow it to absorb ALL electromagnetic frequencies transforms it into heat this complex process actually provides food to the body. 
About 85% of the heat IS absorbed the rest is released. (so YOU hav that backwards)..the body cant absorb ALL heat…some of this heat is used to kill free radicals and some is used as food
All of the above special properties are taken into account that you are BLACK and the blacker you are the better

of course the melanins ability of absorb sunlight is ONE way we use thia heat...BUT the body also has the ability to use the invisible frequencies to heat the body gamma as well as others

Try the Zebrafish experiments.