we gave you proof. now give us proof

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we gave you proof. now give us proof
« on: July 03, 2006, 05:31:10 PM »
everytime I say something I have proof to back my self up. Wheres yours? Everytime someone post proof that the earth is round, You guys come back with something unrelated to the subject, say "the earth is flat", or say something that doesn't make sense. The "ice wall", noone has seen it but the government. how could you know if the ice wall exsisted. the government wouldn't tell you. Gravity you say the earth is moving up. there's no up in space. how can you tell if you're moving if everything, EVERYTHING!!, is moving with it. Satellites are not radio towers, the frequencies are bigger and has a large range. freqency waves move in straight line. notice how all satellites are pointed up, and some adjust. radio don't. If you listen you your favorite radio station and drive out of state, you lose the station.        



                                     just give me some proof. and no close up pictures of glaciers, or drawned pictures. I want the real deal

we gave you proof. now give us proof
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2006, 05:53:52 PM »
I second that.

and don't give us that "the burden of proof is on the person making the claim" crap, you all made a very big claim when you started this web site with odd-ball theories that fly in the face science, physics, and common knowledge as we know it.

   Galeleio was tortured until he broke down and recanted his findings to appease the catholic church just because he proposed that the earth revolved around the sun, other sceintists and astronomers of the age died defending their findings, so yes, I do feel very strongly about my RE way of thinking and I'd like to see some proof to your claims that I'm wrong.

we gave you proof. now give us proof
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2006, 05:55:34 PM »
You realize that you won't be satisfied by any definitive explanation, right?
ttp://theflatearthsociety.org/forums/search.php

"Against criticism a man can neither protest nor defend himself; he must act in spite of it, and then it will gradually yield to him." -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

we gave you proof. now give us proof
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2006, 06:08:32 PM »
because your idea of a definitive explanation is "the government won't let us get proof"
   you know why the government won't let you get proof that the world is flat? it's the same reason they won't send me a copy of my enlistment record, the world ain't flat and I never served

we gave you proof. now give us proof
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2006, 06:24:18 PM »
i'd just love a reason for the governmental conspiracy.... just give us a good solid answer for that and we can consider it a "proof"

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RenaissanceMan

we gave you proof. now give us proof
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2006, 06:55:24 PM »
Quote from: "Mephistopheles"
You realize that you won't be satisfied by any definitive explanation, right?


Actually, they probably WOULD be satisfied with a definitive explanation. But that would entail the Flat Earth model being correct. Egging them on with misdirection and evasive comments only fans the fire. It's like watching a train wreck at that point.

Wouldn't the SMART response be to say nothing at all unless you had a truly salient response? Apparently not!

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EnragedPenguin

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we gave you proof. now give us proof
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2006, 06:57:20 PM »
Try reading "Earth: Not a Globe" by Samuel Rowbotham.
You can find it here. There's also a link to it in the FAQ.
A different world cannot be built by indifferent people.

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Desu

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we gave you proof. now give us proof
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2006, 06:57:53 PM »
Quote from: "RenaissanceMan"
Quote from: "Mephistopheles"
You realize that you won't be satisfied by any definitive explanation, right?


Actually, they probably WOULD be satisfied with a definitive explanation. But that would entail the Flat Earth model being correct. Egging them on with misdirection and evasive comments only fans the fire. It's like watching a train wreck at that point.

Wouldn't the SMART response be to say nothing at all unless you had a truly salient response? Apparently not!

I find your ideas fascinating, and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
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Since June 2006.

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cadmium_blimp

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we gave you proof. now give us proof
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2006, 06:59:01 PM »
Quote from: "RenaissanceMan"
Quote from: "Mephistopheles"
You realize that you won't be satisfied by any definitive explanation, right?


Actually, they probably WOULD be satisfied with a definitive explanation. But that would entail the Flat Earth model being correct. Egging them on with misdirection and evasive comments only fans the fire. It's like watching a train wreck at that point.

Wouldn't the SMART response be to say nothing at all unless you had a truly salient response? Apparently not!

When he said that I took it to mean that they weren't going to end up getting a definitive eplanation.

Quote from: Commander Taggart
Never give up, never surrender!

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RenaissanceMan

we gave you proof. now give us proof
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2006, 07:07:12 PM »
Quote from: "EnragedPenguin"
Try reading "Earth: Not a Globe" by Samuel Rowbotham.
You can find it here. There's also a link to it in the FAQ.


I've been reading that, I find it fascinating but I also find it scientifically defective. It's clear to me that Samual actually believed what he wrote, but I think he was, for want of a better term... confused in some ways.

For example, he postulates the orbital eccentricity of the sun to match the seasons, but fails to back his calculations with accurate measurements (At least so far that I've seen)

If you're going to construct a mathematical model of reality, then it must... therefore... match accurate measurements of the same reality. I don't see Samuel doing that where it really counts.

we gave you proof. now give us proof
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2006, 09:09:24 PM »
Quote from: "RenaissanceMan"
Quote from: "Mephistopheles"
You realize that you won't be satisfied by any definitive explanation, right?


Actually, they probably WOULD be satisfied with a definitive explanation. But that would entail the Flat Earth model being correct. Egging them on with misdirection and evasive comments only fans the fire. It's like watching a train wreck at that point.

Wouldn't the SMART response be to say nothing at all unless you had a truly salient response? Apparently not!


Please, think about this for a second.

You know the Earth to be truly round, correct?  There is certainly an enormous amount of information that follows it.  It is extremely easy to know that the Earth is round.

If someone were to explain, and I mean soundly, their reasons and proofs, would you honestly accept them?  This is not a question of stubbornness or anything of the sort.  Given a situation similar, I don't think I, myself, could give a yes or no answer.  You absolutely know the Earth to be round.
ttp://theflatearthsociety.org/forums/search.php

"Against criticism a man can neither protest nor defend himself; he must act in spite of it, and then it will gradually yield to him." -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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RenaissanceMan

we gave you proof. now give us proof
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2006, 09:29:01 PM »
Quote from: "Mephistopheles"
Quote from: "RenaissanceMan"
Quote from: "Mephistopheles"
You realize that you won't be satisfied by any definitive explanation, right?


Actually, they probably WOULD be satisfied with a definitive explanation. But that would entail the Flat Earth model being correct. Egging them on with misdirection and evasive comments only fans the fire. It's like watching a train wreck at that point.

Wouldn't the SMART response be to say nothing at all unless you had a truly salient response? Apparently not!


Please, think about this for a second.

You know the Earth to be truly round, correct?  There is certainly an enormous amount of information that follows it.  It is extremely easy to know that the Earth is round.

If someone were to explain, and I mean soundly, their reasons and proofs, would you honestly accept them?  This is not a question of stubbornness or anything of the sort.  Given a situation similar, I don't think I, myself, could give a yes or no answer.  You absolutely know the Earth to be round.


I can answer that without hesitation.

If someone produced measurable evidence that the world was NOT round, I would listen to it. I would test it if I could. If it was good enough to convince me. I would believe it. Because that's where the evidence leads.

I currently believe the earth to be round. The evidence for a round earth is overwhelming. But that just means that a ROUND earth is the current, most acceptable theory.

Science doesn't work through dogma. If you can DISPROVE a theory that science holds dear... DO IT. Science will be better because of it.

we gave you proof. now give us proof
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2006, 11:08:38 PM »
The problems with FEs are two-fold:

1) They ask for simple tests that they, at home, can perform to see if Earth is round, but when given such experiments, they put the burden of proof on us and ask us to do it; though we both know that when we come back with results that support the RE theory, they won't believe it.

Either be open for persuasion, or refuse to believe any RE evidence, you can't have it both ways.

2) They offer no evidence to suggest that the Earth is flat, beyond "it looks flat." They offer alternate theories, but I haven't heard a single FE theory that is simpler than it's RE counterpart (such as gravity, sunsets, the horizon), and I haven't heard them come up with anything that seems suspect with the RE theory. I also haven't seen any proof (physical or mathematical) of their theories about universal acceleration, optical illusions, ice walls, or conspiracies. No specifics, like the reason for the conspiracy.

I can understand those here who actually believe in an FE refusing to admit defeat, it is like religion to them... but for those who are simply interested in the academic challenge, it's just annoying and immature for them to leave a discussion once someone presents incontrovertable evidence for RE.

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TheEngineer

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Re: we gave you proof. now give us proof
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2006, 11:58:58 PM »
Quote from: "I see a satellite"
Gravity you say the earth is moving up. there's no up in space.

We are moving up relative to the surface of the earth.  Up as in the univerally recongnized thought that up is towards the sky and down is towards the ground.  Since the force we normally associate with gravity pulls us down, the earth must be moving up (on a vector normal to the plane of the surface of the FE).
Quote
how can you tell if you're moving if everything, EVERYTHING!!, is moving with it.

Isn't relativity fun?!?


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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Rick_James

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we gave you proof. now give us proof
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2006, 12:47:45 AM »
Just a quick point, that has probably been raised previously, wont we at some point
reach the end of space? surely it's not of invinite distance???

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TheEngineer

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we gave you proof. now give us proof
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2006, 12:54:21 AM »
Quote from: "Rick_James"
Just a quick point, that has probably been raised previously, wont we at some point
reach the end of space? surely it's not of invinite distance???

Since everything is moving with us, no.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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Rick_James

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we gave you proof. now give us proof
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2006, 01:20:00 AM »
Ah, so the universe is moving with us. Sorry, I mistunderstood.  :oops:
Can I ask (unless it has previously been brought up), through what is the universe moving?