How were the celestial measurements derived in FE?

How do we know the Sun/Moon is 32 miles wide and 3000 miles high?  I don't know about the Sun's size/distance, but I do know about the Moon.  Different space agencies left reflectors on the moon.  A large laser is aimed at a reflector, and the time delay for it to return is used to calculate the distance.  Note that the measurements continue to be refined as technology advances.  See:  Lunar Laser Ranging Experiment

As for the size, I'm sure they measured it when they were in orbit or something.

How do we know the Sun/Moon is 32 miles wide and 3000 miles high?  I don't know about the Sun's size/distance, but I do know about the Moon.  Different space agencies left reflectors on the moon.  A large laser is aimed at a reflector, and the time delay for it to return is used to calculate the distance.  Note that the measurements continue to be refined as technology advances.  See:  Lunar Laser Ranging Experiment

As for the size, I'm sure they measured it when they were in orbit or something.

They guessed. Haha. Be prepared for the answers you get, sir. 

They guessed. Haha. Be prepared for the answers you get, sir. 

Yeah, I see all this talk of Zeteticism (sp?), and this seems like a tough thing to measure on your own.

Quote from: th3rm0m3t3r0 on July 23, 2009, 07:06:15 PM

They guessed. Haha. Be prepared for the answers you get, sir. 

Yeah, I see all this talk of Zeteticism (sp?), and this seems like a tough thing to measure on your own.

I posted the same question a few months back and got not one reply from a FEer.

Quote from: th3rm0m3t3r0 on July 23, 2009, 07:06:15 PM

They guessed. Haha. Be prepared for the answers you get, sir. 

Yeah, I see all this talk of Zeteticism (sp?), and this seems like a tough thing to measure on your own.

There is (surprisingly) more than one Zeteticist. But they can't afford a tape measure.

How do we know the Sun/Moon is 32 miles wide and 3000 miles high?  I don't know about the Sun's size/distance, but I do know about the Moon.  Different space agencies left reflectors on the moon.  A large laser is aimed at a reflector, and the time delay for it to return is used to calculate the distance.  Note that the measurements continue to be refined as technology advances.  See:  Lunar Laser Ranging Experiment

As for the size, I'm sure they measured it when they were in orbit or something.

You think they used math? Personally, I think they just stole and mangled Aristotle and other greek philosopher's cosmologies.

I'm going to bump this.  Surely someone knows the answer to my question?

You think they used math? Personally, I think they just stole and mangled Aristotle and other greek philosopher's cosmologies.

LOLWUT?  I think they'd want to get as accurate of a measurement as they could, so they'd do some measuring themselves.  I'm sure there is an article somewhere that explains how NASA measured the Moon's size, if I cared to search for it.

The reflectors measure the Moon's distance from Earth, not it's size. that is derived using a sextant, theodalite or other angle-measuring piece of equipment.

Anyway, as to your original question... your guess is as good as mine.

How do we know the Sun/Moon is 32 miles wide and 3000 miles high?  I don't know about the Sun's size/distance, but I do know about the Moon.  Different space agencies left reflectors on the moon.  A large laser is aimed at a reflector, and the time delay for it to return is used to calculate the distance.  Note that the measurements continue to be refined as technology advances.  See:  Lunar Laser Ranging Experiment

As for the size, I'm sure they measured it when they were in orbit or something.

Read Earth: Not a Globe.  It details how distances to the Sun can be determined.

You think they used math? Personally, I think they just stole and mangled Aristotle and other greek philosopher's cosmologies.

Actually, they used simple triangulation.  Basically, it goes something like this:  At noon on the day of the equinox, the sun is directly above the equator.  At the same moment, at 45 degrees latitude, the sun is at an elevation of 45 degrees.  This forms a 45-45-90 right triangle.  Since the distance from the equator to 45 degrees latitude is approximately 3000 miles, that means that the altitude of the sun is that same approximately 3000 miles. 

As for the 32 mile diameter...  The angular size of the sun is measured at 1/2 degree.  1/2 degree at 3000 miles works out to be 32 miles.

The only problem is that those figures are only valid when: 1) you measure from the 45 degrees latitude at noon on the day of the equinox; and 2) assume that light doesn't bend.

@Chris:  I didn't say that did I?  I didn't mean to if I did.

@Euclid:  I knew someone would say that.  Do you have a page number?  Or you could just post it...

@markjo:  Okay, that works on a flat Earth.  "Degrees elevation" deals with eyelevel, right?  90 is straight up, 0 is level?
Keep in mind, you are moving around a sphere*, so 45 deg. elevation looking South at 45 N is like 90 deg. at the Equator.  One more thing:  human error is large in an experiment on this scale.  Being off even a fraction of a degree could translate to many miles error.  And, it's really hard to be exact over long distances in the field.

*Oblate Spheroid

The only problem is that those figures are only valid when: 1) you measure from the 45 degrees latitude at noon on the day of the equinox; and 2) assume that light doesn't bend.

And I guess Rowbotham forgot his perspective law when he did his measurements.

Quote from: markjo on July 26, 2009, 05:22:01 PM

The only problem is that those figures are only valid when: 1) you measure from the 45 degrees latitude at noon on the day of the equinox; and 2) assume that light doesn't bend.

And I guess Rowbotham forgot his perspective law when he did his measurements.

No...No... rowbotham didnt forget about perspective law... HE DIDNT KNOW ABOUT PERSPECTIVE LAW...

Quote from: zork on July 27, 2009, 01:48:48 AM

Quote from: markjo on July 26, 2009, 05:22:01 PM

The only problem is that those figures are only valid when: 1) you measure from the 45 degrees latitude at noon on the day of the equinox; and 2) assume that light doesn't bend.

And I guess Rowbotham forgot his perspective law when he did his measurements.

No...No... rowbotham didnt forget about perspective law... HE DIDNT KNOW ABOUT PERSPECTIVE LAW...

I said "his perspective law" which states that "The smallest angle under which an object can be seen is upon an average, for different sights, the sixtieth part of a degree, or one minute in space; so that when an object is removed from the eye 3000 times its own diameter, it will only just be distinguishable; consequently the greatest distance at which we can behold an object like a shilling of an inch in diameter, is 3000 inches or 250 feet."

He didn't claim the sun was 96000 miles away, did he?   

He didn't claim the sun was 96000 miles away, did he?   

That is the problem that he didn't. He only claimed 3000 miles and how big the 32 mile sun must seem to us according to his perspective law?

Quote from: raziel on July 27, 2009, 05:44:58 AM

Quote from: zork on July 27, 2009, 01:48:48 AM

Quote from: markjo on July 26, 2009, 05:22:01 PM

The only problem is that those figures are only valid when: 1) you measure from the 45 degrees latitude at noon on the day of the equinox; and 2) assume that light doesn't bend.

And I guess Rowbotham forgot his perspective law when he did his measurements.

No...No... rowbotham didnt forget about perspective law... HE DIDNT KNOW ABOUT PERSPECTIVE LAW...

I said "his perspective law" which states that "The smallest angle under which an object can be seen is upon an average, for different sights, the sixtieth part of a degree, or one minute in space; so that when an object is removed from the eye 3000 times its own diameter, it will only just be distinguishable; consequently the greatest distance at which we can behold an object like a shilling of an inch in diameter, is 3000 inches or 250 feet."

Oh yeah... I am sorry... it is HIS perspective law

Quote from: Ski on July 27, 2009, 05:07:23 PM

He didn't claim the sun was 96000 miles away, did he?   

That is the problem that he didn't. He only claimed 3000 miles and how big the 32 mile sun must seem to us according to his perspective law?

Rowbotham did not come up with the 3000 mile figure (I think it was Shenton who did).  In ENaG, Rowbotham calculated that the sun was less than 700 miles above the FE.

Rowbotham did not come up with the 3000 mile figure (I think it was Shenton who did).  In ENaG, Rowbotham calculated that the sun was less than 700 miles above the FE.

Thats second edition figures. In his first versions he got figures like "considerably less than 4000 miles". In second edition it was "considerably less than 700 miles". But yes, Rowbotham didn't make any guesses about their sizes, just that they are smaller than people think.
  But this 3000 and 32 mile was probably Charles  K. Johnson idea. Where he got these numbers, who knows. But they contradict Rowbotham figures and his law of perspective.

The figures quoted in the FAQ must be the truth as FE believers see it otherwise they wouldn't be answers to the FAQs would they.   "Read the FAQ"