Abortion

Since the would be mother is choosing, emotion doesn't come into play.

Quote from: ﮎingulaЯiτy on August 24, 2009, 07:56:46 PM

Nor a logical debate.

I don't think it's logical for humans to not appeal to emotion, even in a debate. On the contrary, debates originate from emotion.

No, debates originate from different ideas. Not emotion.

Quote from: BanthaPoodoo on August 24, 2009, 07:59:44 PM

Quote from: ﮎingulaЯiτy on August 24, 2009, 07:56:46 PM

Nor a logical debate.

I don't think it's logical for humans to not appeal to emotion, even in a debate. On the contrary, debates originate from emotion.

No, debates originate from different ideas. Not emotion.

Ideas and emotions are often synonymous.

Quote from: ﮎingulaЯiτy on August 24, 2009, 07:56:46 PM

Nor a logical debate.

I don't think it's logical for humans to not appeal to emotion, even in a debate. On the contrary, debates originate from emotion.

So you admit to appealing to emotion?

Personal emotions and values may play a role in if you decide to engage yourself in debate, but it does not make for a rationally valid argument to be applied to the outside world. Emotions can conflict, reduce to prejudices, and be entirely irrational in nature. Using emotion rather than valid logic means nothing to the people you talk to, nor should it. It is unconvincing to anyone else, because they are someone else. It stands on no deduction or objective justification. To use your emotions to try to justify an objective argument, is to assume that your values are inherently better than anyone else's to be applied to policy's or debates with those people. For the same reason law makers don't read blogs about what pisses people off, including your emotions that are only meaningful to you in an argument with people who don't necessarily share your emotions is egocentric presumptuous. The personal, is meant to stay personal and not be applied to others.

Ideas and emotions are often synonymous.

Incorrect. You may be emotional about many ideas though.

Quote from: Raist on August 24, 2009, 08:04:50 PM

Quote from: BanthaPoodoo on August 24, 2009, 07:59:44 PM

Quote from: ﮎingulaЯiτy on August 24, 2009, 07:56:46 PM

Nor a logical debate.

I don't think it's logical for humans to not appeal to emotion, even in a debate. On the contrary, debates originate from emotion.

No, debates originate from different ideas. Not emotion.

Ideas and emotions are often synonymous.

No they aren't. An idea is "The sun is a star." An emotion is a flood of certain hormones caused by certain stimuli.

Quote from: BanthaPoodoo on August 24, 2009, 08:08:22 PM

Quote from: Raist on August 24, 2009, 08:04:50 PM

Quote from: BanthaPoodoo on August 24, 2009, 07:59:44 PM

Quote from: ﮎingulaЯiτy on August 24, 2009, 07:56:46 PM

Nor a logical debate.

I don't think it's logical for humans to not appeal to emotion, even in a debate. On the contrary, debates originate from emotion.

No, debates originate from different ideas. Not emotion.

Ideas and emotions are often synonymous.

No they aren't. An idea is "The sun is a star." An emotion is a flood of certain hormones caused by certain stimuli.

Yes, they can be and often are.

Yes, they can be and often are.

That's called a begging the question logical fallacy.
Justify your claim if you wish to give it merit.

Quote from: Raist on August 24, 2009, 08:17:04 PM

Quote from: BanthaPoodoo on August 24, 2009, 08:08:22 PM

Quote from: Raist on August 24, 2009, 08:04:50 PM

Quote from: BanthaPoodoo on August 24, 2009, 07:59:44 PM

Quote from: ﮎingulaЯiτy on August 24, 2009, 07:56:46 PM

Nor a logical debate.

I don't think it's logical for humans to not appeal to emotion, even in a debate. On the contrary, debates originate from emotion.

No, debates originate from different ideas. Not emotion.

Ideas and emotions are often synonymous.

No they aren't. An idea is "The sun is a star." An emotion is a flood of certain hormones caused by certain stimuli.

Yes, they can be and often are.

So which emotion is an idea? Or are you saying ideas can bring about an emotional response.

Angry isn't an idea. Sad isn't an idea. Happy isn't an idea.

The sun makes me happy. Is an idea about the cause of an emotion. Anger is often detrimental, is an idea about an emotion. Emotions still are not ideas.

Quote from: BanthaPoodoo on August 24, 2009, 08:33:24 PM

Quote from: Raist on August 24, 2009, 08:17:04 PM

Quote from: BanthaPoodoo on August 24, 2009, 08:08:22 PM

Quote from: Raist on August 24, 2009, 08:04:50 PM

Quote from: BanthaPoodoo on August 24, 2009, 07:59:44 PM

Quote from: ﮎingulaЯiτy on August 24, 2009, 07:56:46 PM

Nor a logical debate.

I don't think it's logical for humans to not appeal to emotion, even in a debate. On the contrary, debates originate from emotion.

No, debates originate from different ideas. Not emotion.

Ideas and emotions are often synonymous.

No they aren't. An idea is "The sun is a star." An emotion is a flood of certain hormones caused by certain stimuli.

Yes, they can be and often are.

So which emotion is an idea? Or are you saying ideas can bring about an emotional response.

Angry isn't an idea. Sad isn't an idea. Happy isn't an idea.

The sun makes me happy. Is an idea about the cause of an emotion. Anger is often detrimental, is an idea about an emotion. Emotions still are not ideas.

Maybe you need to look up synonymous.

Quote from: Raist on August 24, 2009, 08:53:41 PM

Quote from: BanthaPoodoo on August 24, 2009, 08:33:24 PM

Quote from: Raist on August 24, 2009, 08:17:04 PM

Quote from: BanthaPoodoo on August 24, 2009, 08:08:22 PM

Quote from: Raist on August 24, 2009, 08:04:50 PM

Quote from: BanthaPoodoo on August 24, 2009, 07:59:44 PM

Quote from: ﮎingulaЯiτy on August 24, 2009, 07:56:46 PM

Nor a logical debate.

I don't think it's logical for humans to not appeal to emotion, even in a debate. On the contrary, debates originate from emotion.

No, debates originate from different ideas. Not emotion.

Ideas and emotions are often synonymous.

No they aren't. An idea is "The sun is a star." An emotion is a flood of certain hormones caused by certain stimuli.

Yes, they can be and often are.

So which emotion is an idea? Or are you saying ideas can bring about an emotional response.

Angry isn't an idea. Sad isn't an idea. Happy isn't an idea.

The sun makes me happy. Is an idea about the cause of an emotion. Anger is often detrimental, is an idea about an emotion. Emotions still are not ideas.

Maybe you need to look up synonymous.

Emotions and ideas are not synonyms. So no.

Quote from: BanthaPoodoo on August 24, 2009, 07:47:19 PM

Quote from: ﮎingulaЯiτy on August 24, 2009, 07:44:25 PM

Quote from: BanthaPoodoo on August 24, 2009, 07:42:02 PM

It isn't a feeling you can explain very well.

Which should be your first clue that you're appealing to emotion.

We're all human here, right?

And we have all agreed that being human does not present you with a right to live.

I haven't. Personally I think all humans have a right to live.

I looked, and all I could find were monetary issues and age of death. It was more the health quality of the people than of the health care system and its efficiency at using money.

More is spent on health care in the United States on a per capita basis than in any other nation in the world.
...
The World Health Organization (WHO), in 2000, ranked the U.S. health care system as the highest in cost, first in responsiveness, 37th in overall performance, and 72nd by overall level of health (among 191 member nations included in the study).[7][8] The WHO study has been criticized in a study published in Health Affairs for its methodology and lack of correlation with user satisfaction ratings.[9] A 2008 report by the Commonwealth Fund ranked the United States last in the quality of health care among the 19 compared countries.

It doesn't seem too efficient if you paid the most money for your healthcare but don't get the best results.

I haven't. Personally I think all humans have a right to live.

Based on?

It doesn't seem too efficient if you paid the most money for your healthcare but don't get the best results.

Tell me about it: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html

Quote from: W on August 25, 2009, 01:50:13 AM

I haven't. Personally I think all humans have a right to live.

Based on?

My opinion.

My opinion.

What lead you to that opinion?

Quote from: W on August 25, 2009, 07:20:38 AM

My opinion.

What lead you to that opinion?

I believe in the golden rule, and do not want anyone to kill me. I cannot value my own life more than others' so if I should be allowed to live so should everyone else.

Hrm.

Quote from: Raist on August 24, 2009, 05:19:34 PM

I looked, and all I could find were monetary issues and age of death. It was more the health quality of the people than of the health care system and its efficiency at using money.

Quote from: wikipedia again

More is spent on health care in the United States on a per capita basis than in any other nation in the world.
...
The World Health Organization (WHO), in 2000, ranked the U.S. health care system as the highest in cost, first in responsiveness, 37th in overall performance, and 72nd by overall level of health (among 191 member nations included in the study).[7][8] The WHO study has been criticized in a study published in Health Affairs for its methodology and lack of correlation with user satisfaction ratings.[9] A 2008 report by the Commonwealth Fund ranked the United States last in the quality of health care among the 19 compared countries.

It doesn't seem too efficient if you paid the most money for your healthcare but don't get the best results.

They never said the results of our hospitals are low. They said our overall health is low. That is a social issue. We have the fastest medical response, meaning if you get hurt, your money is well rewarded by you not bleeding out.

When you get to a hospital and you are seriously injured you skip all lines. If you are brought in by an emt there is absolutely no wait ever.

When you get to a hospital and you are seriously injured you skip all lines. If you are brought in by an emt there is absolutely no wait ever.

Er, where do they do that differently?

I believe in the golden rule, and do not want anyone to kill me. I cannot value my own life more than others' so if I should be allowed to live so should everyone else.

Mutually respecting others' lives because they likely have the same wish to live as you only applies to those who can wish to live or can feel pain, no? If something isn't sentient it doesn't have a will, goals, fears, or personal justice.

Mutually respecting others' lives because they likely have the same wish to live as you only applies to those who can wish to live or can feel pain, no? If something isn't sentient it doesn't have a will, goals, fears, or personal justice.

How do you measure sentience?

Quote from: Raist on August 25, 2009, 09:18:09 AM

When you get to a hospital and you are seriously injured you skip all lines. If you are brought in by an emt there is absolutely no wait ever.

Er, where do they do that differently?

Considering we are number one in response times everywhere.

 

Quote from: BanthaPoodoo on August 24, 2009, 10:40:41 PM

Quote from: Raist on August 24, 2009, 08:53:41 PM

Quote from: BanthaPoodoo on August 24, 2009, 08:33:24 PM

Quote from: Raist on August 24, 2009, 08:17:04 PM

Quote from: BanthaPoodoo on August 24, 2009, 08:08:22 PM

Quote from: Raist on August 24, 2009, 08:04:50 PM

Quote from: BanthaPoodoo on August 24, 2009, 07:59:44 PM

Quote from: ﮎingulaЯiτy on August 24, 2009, 07:56:46 PM

Nor a logical debate.

I don't think it's logical for humans to not appeal to emotion, even in a debate. On the contrary, debates originate from emotion.

No, debates originate from different ideas. Not emotion.

Ideas and emotions are often synonymous.

No they aren't. An idea is "The sun is a star." An emotion is a flood of certain hormones caused by certain stimuli.

Yes, they can be and often are.

So which emotion is an idea? Or are you saying ideas can bring about an emotional response.

Angry isn't an idea. Sad isn't an idea. Happy isn't an idea.

The sun makes me happy. Is an idea about the cause of an emotion. Anger is often detrimental, is an idea about an emotion. Emotions still are not ideas.

Maybe you need to look up synonymous.

Emotions and ideas are not synonyms. So no.

Yes they are.

Quote from: Raist on August 24, 2009, 10:52:44 PM

Quote from: BanthaPoodoo on August 24, 2009, 10:40:41 PM

Quote from: Raist on August 24, 2009, 08:53:41 PM

Quote from: BanthaPoodoo on August 24, 2009, 08:33:24 PM

Quote from: Raist on August 24, 2009, 08:17:04 PM

Quote from: BanthaPoodoo on August 24, 2009, 08:08:22 PM

Quote from: Raist on August 24, 2009, 08:04:50 PM

Quote from: BanthaPoodoo on August 24, 2009, 07:59:44 PM

Quote from: ﮎingulaЯiτy on August 24, 2009, 07:56:46 PM

Nor a logical debate.

I don't think it's logical for humans to not appeal to emotion, even in a debate. On the contrary, debates originate from emotion.

No, debates originate from different ideas. Not emotion.

Ideas and emotions are often synonymous.

No they aren't. An idea is "The sun is a star." An emotion is a flood of certain hormones caused by certain stimuli.

Yes, they can be and often are.

So which emotion is an idea? Or are you saying ideas can bring about an emotional response.

Angry isn't an idea. Sad isn't an idea. Happy isn't an idea.

The sun makes me happy. Is an idea about the cause of an emotion. Anger is often detrimental, is an idea about an emotion. Emotions still are not ideas.

Maybe you need to look up synonymous.

Emotions and ideas are not synonyms. So no.

Yes they are.

No. An idea is a thought. It is information. Emotions do not convey any information outside of the emotion, they simply modify our reactions to the ideas.

Synonyms for idea:  concept, conception, thought, notion, impression, inkling, construct, opinion, view, doctrine, intention, design, scheme, approach, whimsy, whim, fantasy, sense, import, purport

Synonyms for emotion:  feeling, passion, sentiment, sensation, affect, perturbation, agitation, tremor, excitement, disturbance, tumult, turmoil, excitability

Nope, not synonyms.

Synonyms for idea:  concept, conception, thought, notion, impression, inkling, construct, opinion, view, doctrine, intention, design, scheme, approach, whimsy, whim, fantasy, sense, import, purport

Synonyms for emotion:  feeling, passion, sentiment, sensation, affect, perturbation, agitation, tremor, excitement, disturbance, tumult, turmoil, excitability

Nope, not synonyms.

I'm sure that if you continued to take synonyms for all of those words that emotion and iddea would eventually link up.

Only if you changed the meanings of the words.

Quote from: Soze on August 25, 2009, 10:29:10 AM

Mutually respecting others' lives because they likely have the same wish to live as you only applies to those who can wish to live or can feel pain, no? If something isn't sentient it doesn't have a will, goals, fears, or personal justice.

How do you measure sentience?

I can only measure it accurately at the extremes, I admit that the transition between them is still open for revision. Rocks for instance, are easy to classify as nonsentient.

I can only measure it accurately at the extremes, I admit that the transition between them is still open for revision. Rocks for instance, are easy to classify as nonsentient.

How can any sentient being be certain that anything other than itself is sentient?

How can any sentient being be certain that anything other than itself is sentient?

Nothing can be known for sure, but there is strong evidence for and against sentience depending on the subjects.