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atheism billboard

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Raist

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Re: atheism billboard
« Reply #240 on: September 19, 2009, 09:53:22 AM »
Quote from: ﮎingulaЯiτy on September 19, 2009, 09:46:26 AM
Quote from: Raist on September 19, 2009, 09:31:47 AM
When it comes to existence, while a negative belief is not provable, it is still technically a positive belief and not the default.
I agree, which is why I am a weak atheist.

Quote from: Raist on September 19, 2009, 09:37:56 AM
I'd love to hear any evidence that isn't a pseudo intellectual proof based on opinions and linguistics.
The proofs you consider to use linguistics work, the results just have linguistic meaning.
For instance, the argument from evil defines evil the same way it is used in the conclusion. If evil means willfully allowing genocide, than god is that definition of evil.

And if that genocide prevented something worse? Or stopped a people from dominating the world and doing the same to other races?

One of the most thought provoking pictures I have ever seen (cue instant hatred at me for thinking this way) was of someone telling a teenage boy that he would end up the most hated person in the world and he would have to kill millions of people. He said he never would, and the person explained if he didn't then billions would die. It ends with him tearfully telling someone to burn the bodies.

This is obviously not what happened, and I am in no way suggesting Hitler's innocence (/covering my ass) but it makes you think, what is evil other than our momentary perspective on an event outside of time. Put back into context a moment can be the farthest from evil as can be.
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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: atheism billboard
« Reply #241 on: September 19, 2009, 09:56:24 AM »
Quote from: Raist on September 19, 2009, 09:53:22 AM
And if that genocide prevented something worse? Or stopped a people from dominating the world and doing the same to other races?
You are appealing to a dilemma of comparative evil. If god was omnipotent he wouldn't have to choose to between evils.
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Raist

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Re: atheism billboard
« Reply #242 on: September 19, 2009, 09:57:43 AM »
Quote from: ﮎingulaЯiτy on September 19, 2009, 09:56:24 AM
Quote from: Raist on September 19, 2009, 09:53:22 AM
And if that genocide prevented something worse? Or stopped a people from dominating the world and doing the same to other races?
You are appealing to a dilemma of comparative evil. If god was omnipotent he wouldn't have to choose to between evils.
What if experiencing evil in fact makes a person whole? I can safely say that until you experience an evil you have no perspective on it. If this world is simply preparation for the next, would that not trivialize the evils to the point that they do not matter?
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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: atheism billboard
« Reply #243 on: September 19, 2009, 10:06:52 AM »
Quote from: Raist on September 19, 2009, 09:57:43 AM
What if experiencing evil in fact makes a person whole?
This assumes god cannot present a person with an experience of good (or not experience at all) to make them "whole".

Quote from: Raist on September 19, 2009, 09:57:43 AM
I can safely say that until you experience an evil you have no perspective on it.
We don't have a lot of perspective on a lot of things. If evil didn't exist we wouldn't need any knowledge of it.
Also, the system of building knowledge from experience is natural, but allegedly a system designed by god. He creates the need to experience evil to know evil. Still his fault.

Quote from: Raist on September 19, 2009, 09:57:43 AM
If this world is simply preparation for the next, would that not trivialize the evils to the point that they do not matter?
Are you assuming evil has to exist in the next world?
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Raist

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Re: atheism billboard
« Reply #244 on: September 19, 2009, 10:10:38 AM »
I'm assuming that no matter what we will call certain things evil. It is simply a comparative thing, whether it is being slowly burned alive for five years, or the delivery boy forgetting whether you wanted blue or black pens. From a strictly logical perspective I see no reason why things most people see as evil can not happen.
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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: atheism billboard
« Reply #245 on: September 19, 2009, 10:12:49 AM »
Quote from: Raist on September 19, 2009, 10:10:38 AM
I'm assuming that no matter what we will call certain things evil. It is simply a comparative thing.
Is there evil in your version of heaven?
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Raist

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Re: atheism billboard
« Reply #246 on: September 19, 2009, 10:14:37 AM »
Quote from: ﮎingulaЯiτy on September 19, 2009, 10:12:49 AM
Quote from: Raist on September 19, 2009, 10:10:38 AM
I'm assuming that no matter what we will call certain things evil. It is simply a comparative thing.
Is there evil in your version of heaven?


As much evil as a person brings with them.
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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: atheism billboard
« Reply #247 on: September 19, 2009, 10:17:01 AM »
Quote from: Raist on September 19, 2009, 10:14:37 AM
As much evil as a person brings with them.
Examples?
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Raist

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Re: atheism billboard
« Reply #248 on: September 19, 2009, 10:17:55 AM »
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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: atheism billboard
« Reply #249 on: September 19, 2009, 10:21:34 AM »
Quote from: Raist on September 19, 2009, 10:17:55 AM
Quote from: ﮎingulaЯiτy on September 19, 2009, 10:17:01 AM
Quote from: Raist on September 19, 2009, 10:14:37 AM
As much evil as a person brings with them.
Examples?
?
Of how a person can bring evil into heaven in a way god could not prevent.
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Ocius

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Re: atheism billboard
« Reply #250 on: September 19, 2009, 11:54:11 PM »
Quote from: Wendy on September 19, 2009, 01:45:20 AM
You seriously are bantha fodder, banthy. Stop being an idiot and read a book or two.

I've read plenty of books. Although, I don't see how that changes the fact that terrorists of Middle Eastern origin are blowing people up.
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Raist

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Re: atheism billboard
« Reply #251 on: September 20, 2009, 12:42:58 AM »
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Kasroa Is Gone

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Re: atheism billboard
« Reply #252 on: September 20, 2009, 05:26:28 AM »
Quote from: Raist on September 19, 2009, 09:08:12 AM
Quote from: Kasroa Is Gone on September 19, 2009, 01:56:59 AM
Quote from: Raist on September 18, 2009, 10:27:27 PM
Can I just point out that it is funny when people demonize religion, claim atheism is the default, then later admit that the default is "no stance" which technically falls under atheism but is not their view.

If you truthfully think that the default position is correct then you should have no opinion either way because there is 0 evidence in your opinion pointing one way or another except retarded mental masturbation style "proofs" relying so heavily on linguistics and opinion that they would be laughed at in any other context.

If the default position is not accepting a claim that comes with no evidence or rational argument then yes, it is the correct position. That's why it's the default position. I'd like to know why someone would need evidence to deny a claim made by someone else. The default position on ANY claim is always non-belief until the evidence shows it to be satisfactory. Within that group of non-believers there may be people who go a step further and make a new claim but they still fall under non-believer, but they will then have a burden of proof. There is no burden of proof to not accepting a claim.

Yes, the default position is no opinion either way. Not an opinion of the negative outcome. If someone says there is a flying tree squirell, and you have not heard of such an animal, the default position would be you do not know whether it does, or does not exist. Believing that it does not exist would basically be a religious belief taken on faith.

You're confusing knowing with believing. In this analogy, the default position would be non-belief until the person can prove their claim well enough. Saying "I don't know" is meaningless. Not accepting a claim is not the same as believing the opposite to a claim. Atheism is not accepting a claim. Gnostic atheism is believing the opposite. Gnostic atheists are rare and as they should be because that stance is on very shaky ground.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2009, 05:33:04 AM by Kasroa Is Gone »
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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: atheism billboard
« Reply #253 on: September 21, 2009, 08:30:16 AM »
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If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.
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Raist

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Re: atheism billboard
« Reply #254 on: September 21, 2009, 09:16:14 AM »
Quote from: ﮎingulaЯiτy on September 21, 2009, 08:30:16 AM
Quote from: Raist on September 20, 2009, 12:42:58 AM
Quote from: ﮎingulaЯiτy on September 19, 2009, 10:21:34 AM
Quote from: Raist on September 19, 2009, 10:17:55 AM
Quote from: ﮎingulaЯiτy on September 19, 2009, 10:17:01 AM
Quote from: Raist on September 19, 2009, 10:14:37 AM
As much evil as a person brings with them.
Examples?
?
Of how a person can bring evil into heaven in a way god could not prevent.


They can't.

So no evil in heaven, then?

So I take it you are assuming god lets no evil into heaven? You and your weird assumptions, you basically have your own religion that you believe christians must follow or something.
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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: atheism billboard
« Reply #255 on: September 23, 2009, 08:39:08 AM »
Quote from: Raist on September 21, 2009, 09:16:14 AM
So I take it you are assuming god lets no evil into heaven? You and your weird assumptions, you basically have your own religion that you believe christians must follow or something.
I came to that conclusion based on the Christian's I know firsthand and from the fact that he is allegedly omnibenevolent. Allowing unnecessary and preventable evil in heaven is the same dilemma that you're trying to defend on Earth.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2009, 08:41:05 AM by ﮎingulaЯiτy »
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Raist

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Re: atheism billboard
« Reply #256 on: September 23, 2009, 08:35:11 PM »
Quote from: ﮎingulaЯiτy on September 23, 2009, 08:39:08 AM
Quote from: Raist on September 21, 2009, 09:16:14 AM
So I take it you are assuming god lets no evil into heaven? You and your weird assumptions, you basically have your own religion that you believe christians must follow or something.
I came to that conclusion based on the Christian's I know firsthand and from the fact that he is allegedly omnibenevolent. Allowing unnecessary and preventable evil in heaven is the same dilemma that you're trying to defend on Earth.

Well unnecessary evil is not allowed into heaven, those people tend to go to hell. The evil people bring with them is him allowing us freedom of choice. Do I think any "evil" acts happen in heaven? No.
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Kasroa Is Gone

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Re: atheism billboard
« Reply #257 on: September 24, 2009, 09:45:18 AM »
I thought the ideas was that once in heaven we are made perfect again like Adam and Eve so will never sin....oh wait.
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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: atheism billboard
« Reply #258 on: September 24, 2009, 03:16:41 PM »
Quote from: Raist on September 23, 2009, 08:35:11 PM
The evil people bring with them is him allowing us freedom of choice. Do I think any "evil" acts happen in heaven? No.
Are you telling me that there are no choices in heaven?

And by "evil" do you mean significant evil?
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Raist

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Re: atheism billboard
« Reply #259 on: September 24, 2009, 09:25:19 PM »
Quote from: ﮎingulaЯiτy on September 24, 2009, 03:16:41 PM
Quote from: Raist on September 23, 2009, 08:35:11 PM
The evil people bring with them is him allowing us freedom of choice. Do I think any "evil" acts happen in heaven? No.
Are you telling me that there are no choices in heaven?

And by "evil" do you mean significant evil?

There are choices in heaven. And by evil I mean, you are using a subjective term and asking if it happens. Can I ask you if "cool" happens in nature?
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Parsifal

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Re: atheism billboard
« Reply #260 on: September 24, 2009, 11:09:32 PM »
So what happens if you try to commit an evil act in heaven? 404?
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Quote from: Ævan on August 11, 2013, 01:18:20 PM
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.
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Proleg

Re: atheism billboard
« Reply #261 on: September 24, 2009, 11:20:57 PM »
Hold on, isn't the whole point of Christianity that "good" and "evil" aren't subjective?
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General Douchebag

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Re: atheism billboard
« Reply #262 on: September 25, 2009, 03:38:50 AM »
Quote from: Proleg on September 24, 2009, 11:20:57 PM
Hold on, isn't the whole point of Christianity that "good" and "evil" aren't subjective?

Only when it suits.
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Quote from: Baseball4Life on April 16, 2010, 09:54:41 AM
No but I'm guess your what? 90? Cause you just so darn mature </sarcasm>
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jackh4eva

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Re: atheism billboard
« Reply #263 on: September 25, 2009, 04:26:02 AM »
Quote from: tonka on July 22, 2009, 10:22:11 AM
Atheists = your new African Americans.


I don't think Atheists have as much of a loving for watermelon, fried chicken and stealing TVs.
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Parsifal

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Re: atheism billboard
« Reply #264 on: September 25, 2009, 05:38:09 AM »
Quote from: jackh4eva on September 25, 2009, 04:26:02 AM
Quote from: tonka on July 22, 2009, 10:22:11 AM
Atheists = your new African Americans.


I don't think Atheists have as much of a loving for watermelon, fried chicken and stealing TVs.

This isn't funny because it has no subtlety.
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Quote from: Ævan on August 11, 2013, 01:18:20 PM
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.
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Kasroa Is Gone

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Re: atheism billboard
« Reply #265 on: September 25, 2009, 11:22:45 AM »
Quote from: Parsifal on September 25, 2009, 05:38:09 AM
Quote from: jackh4eva on September 25, 2009, 04:26:02 AM
Quote from: tonka on July 22, 2009, 10:22:11 AM
Atheists = your new African Americans.


I don't think Atheists have as much of a loving for watermelon, fried chicken and stealing TVs.

This isn't funny because it has no subtlety.

We do have one particular trait in common though.
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: atheism billboard
« Reply #266 on: September 25, 2009, 05:43:34 PM »
You both fight "The Man".
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Quote from: wise on August 21, 2018, 11:47:45 PM
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?
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Wendy

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Re: atheism billboard
« Reply #267 on: September 25, 2009, 06:20:17 PM »
I thought it was that they both transmit veneral diseases.
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Quote from: Wendy on December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM
Here's an explanation for ya. Lurk moar. Every single point you brought up has been posted, reposted, debated and debunked. There is a search function on this forum, and it is very easy to use.
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Raist

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Re: atheism billboard
« Reply #268 on: September 25, 2009, 08:35:20 PM »
Quote from: Parsifal on September 24, 2009, 11:09:32 PM
So what happens if you try to commit an evil act in heaven? 404?

You wouldn't or you wouldn't be in heaven?

Also, wtf is this "evil" you all speak of. I'm sorry but no action is an isolated event that can easily be categorized, let alone into 2 distinct categories.

*inserts donnie darko rant about the "fear/love" line*
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Wendy

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Re: atheism billboard
« Reply #269 on: September 25, 2009, 08:42:48 PM »
Quote
[...]The full spectrum of human emotion[...]
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Quote from: Wendy on December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM
Here's an explanation for ya. Lurk moar. Every single point you brought up has been posted, reposted, debated and debunked. There is a search function on this forum, and it is very easy to use.
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