atheism billboard

Quote from: Christianrocker90 on August 11, 2009, 01:39:30 PM

Quote from: Masterchief2219 on August 11, 2009, 01:19:16 PM

Quote from: semperround on August 11, 2009, 09:18:17 AM

then perhaps you have not looked hard enough.

Or more likely, he is seeing what he wants to see, as he does with everything else.

I could say the same thing about you all and my responses at times, or the same thing about politics,,,,

You could say that, but you'd be wrong.

Bullcrap...

Quote from: W on August 10, 2009, 09:16:11 PM

I would think it was rude to call that person an idiot... let them believe Zeus lives there. It makes no difference.

rude but accurate. and if that is all it takes for you to define someone as not a good person then the only good people are people that can't communicate at all.

I didn't say that that would make him not a good person. But I do think that that particular act of his would be pretty rude.

Wait....did the OP actually compare being an atheist to the social inequalities that African Americans have faced over the years? 
Wow...just....wow. Someone spray that man with a fire hose and then chain him up in a field harvesting crops or something....good gravy.

Wait....did the OP actually compare being an atheist to the social inequalities that African Americans have faced over the years? 
Wow...just....wow. Someone spray that man with a fire hose and then chain him up in a field harvesting crops or something....good gravy.

Actually, historically speaking atheists haven't exactly been treated well.

Quote from: Galileo26 on August 12, 2009, 01:12:36 AM

Wait....did the OP actually compare being an atheist to the social inequalities that African Americans have faced over the years? 
Wow...just....wow. Someone spray that man with a fire hose and then chain him up in a field harvesting crops or something....good gravy.

Actually, historically speaking atheists haven't exactly been treated well.

Yeah. "In God We Trust" is not religious freedom.

Wait....did the OP actually compare being an atheist to the social inequalities that African Americans have faced over the years? 
Wow...just....wow. Someone spray that man with a fire hose and then chain him up in a field harvesting crops or something....good gravy.

Or we could torture them for being heretics. lrn2spanishinquistion.  But you're right, atheists have never suffered at all, especially not today in countries like Iran where it is against the law not to believe in god and they can be imprisoned and tortured based on an ideology.

Explain the difference to me.

Some basic history is fine too.

You can hide your religious views though.

You can hide your religious views though.

Like the Jews in the Holocaust? Or the witches?

Not that many witches actually got burned at the stake, relatively speaking.

If somebody persecutes Jews it's generally seen as racism rather than religious intolerance. Or is it? I don't know really.

Not that many witches actually got burned at the stake, relatively speaking.

If somebody persecutes Jews it's generally seen as racism rather than religious intolerance. Or is it? I don't know really.

No, very few were. They were tortured, drowned and hanged in their thousands, however.

Last I heard, Judaism was a religion, you can convert to it without surgery or anything (Well, only a little and only if you're a guy)

The Jews are an ethnoreligious group originating in the Israelites or Hebrews of the Ancient Near East. The Jewish ethnicity, nationality, and religion are strongly interrelated

There you see, the Jews are an ethnoreligious group.

If you're talking numbers, persecution due to race is a greater risk than persecution due to religion.

Quote from: off of Wikipedia

The Jews are an ethnoreligious group originating in the Israelites or Hebrews of the Ancient Near East. The Jewish ethnicity, nationality, and religion are strongly interrelated

There you see, the Jews are an ethnoreligious group.

If you're talking numbers, persecution due to race is a greater risk than persecution due to religion.

What exactly does that have to do with the persecution of athiests?

Merely that the persecution of atheists in this day and age isn't really all that bad. Probably not as bad as racism which the OP seemed to imply.

Quote from: Galileo26 on August 12, 2009, 01:12:36 AM

Wait....did the OP actually compare being an atheist to the social inequalities that African Americans have faced over the years? 
Wow...just....wow. Someone spray that man with a fire hose and then chain him up in a field harvesting crops or something....good gravy.

Or we could torture them for being heretics. lrn2spanishinquistion.  But you're right, atheists have never suffered at all, especially not today in countries like Iran where it is against the law not to believe in god and they can be imprisoned and tortured based on an ideology.

Explain the difference to me.

Some basic history is fine too.

People can't look at you and tell that you're an aetheist. Religious persecution is vastly different from racial persecution. Yes, they're both discrimination, and no, one requires an interrogation and some cool furniture to "prove", and even then it's all assumptions and heresay. So, unless you wear a giant "You know what I believe in? Nothing!" T-shirt and people refuse you service in a restaurant, then no, being atheist is nothing like the persecution African-Americans and others have faced.

Hell, it's not even like being Irish was.

Quote from: Guessed on August 12, 2009, 08:43:44 AM

Quote from: Galileo26 on August 12, 2009, 01:12:36 AM

Wait....did the OP actually compare being an atheist to the social inequalities that African Americans have faced over the years? 
Wow...just....wow. Someone spray that man with a fire hose and then chain him up in a field harvesting crops or something....good gravy.

Or we could torture them for being heretics. lrn2spanishinquistion.  But you're right, atheists have never suffered at all, especially not today in countries like Iran where it is against the law not to believe in god and they can be imprisoned and tortured based on an ideology.

Explain the difference to me.

Some basic history is fine too.

People can't look at you and tell that you're an aetheist. Religious persecution is vastly different from racial persecution. Yes, they're both discrimination, and no, one requires an interrogation and some cool furniture to "prove", and even then it's all assumptions and heresay. So, unless you wear a giant "You know what I believe in? Nothing!" T-shirt and people refuse you service in a restaurant, then no, being atheist is nothing like the persecution African-Americans and others have faced.

Hell, it's not even like being Irish was.

I have to QFT this.  There's really no comparison.

People can't look at you and tell that you're an aetheist. Religious persecution is vastly different from racial persecution. Yes, they're both discrimination, and no, one requires an interrogation and some cool furniture to "prove", and even then it's all assumptions and heresay. So, unless you wear a giant "You know what I believe in? Nothing!" T-shirt and people refuse you service in a restaurant, then no, being atheist is nothing like the persecution African-Americans and others have faced.

Hell, it's not even like being Irish was.

The OP was referring to the discriminated blacks and the discriminated atheists. While it is easier to hide your views than your physical features, the billboard is inherently declaring atheist views as loudly as skin color, and the discrimination is a direct comparison to its arrival. They shouldn't have to conceal their views to avoid discrimination like many early atheists probably had to, just like they shouldn't have to take down the billboard now.

As you say, they're both discrimination.

I agree that discrimination of any kind is wrong, but don't you think that comparing the plight of atheists (today, and in America, as that's where the billboard was put up) to the historical plight of African-Americans, as the OP did, a bit... hyperbolic?  Hell, in many parts of the South African-Americans are still generally treated as inferior.  And I've never heard of anybody in this country being lynched for being an atheist (though I'd like to point out, before people start throwing up links to news stories, that it wouldn't surprise me, but it unquestionably doesn't happen to the degree it happened to blacks).  I myself have never faced any sort of discrimination for my lack of belief.

I'm not trying to say that the severity isn't different (especially when we restrict our scope to our country and only the most recent of times ), but I was trying to bring to light what the original point was: that they are being denied a right to speech as the blacks were and as women were/are. There are differences, but I think the OP was underlining that it's the same concept, regardless of the treatment. I don't think he meant to imply anything about abuse or violence at all.

I didn't mean to come off as if I disagreed with the differences listed above, but I thought it was a misinterpretation on Galileo's part when he saw the mention of comparisons between the two.

I'm not trying to say that the severity isn't different (especially when we restrict our scope to our country and only the most recent of times ), but I was trying to bring to light what the original point was: that they are being denied a right to speech as the blacks were and as women were/are. There are differences, but I think the OP was underlining that it's the same concept, regardless of the treatment. I don't think he meant to imply anything about abuse or violence at all.

I didn't mean to come off as if I disagreed with the differences listed above, but I thought it was a misinterpretation on Galileo's part when he saw the mention of comparisons between the two.

It's not just free speech that African-Americans have been historically denied, though.  They've been denied all sorts of basic human rights.  What rights are you personally denied for being an atheist?  It's an absolutely ludicrous comparison.

It's not just free speech that African-Americans have been historically denied, though.  They've been denied all sorts of basic human rights.  What rights are you personally denied for being an atheist?  It's an absolutely ludicrous comparison.

My point is that I don't think the OP was ever making that comparison to begin with. I was thinking he only brought it up as a parallel of free speech, not for the other human rights violations.

If we compared all of the differences to modern atheists, then yes, I agree it is absurd.

The phrase "atheists = the new African-Americans" is pure hyperbole.  That's all I'm trying to say, and it's why I still think Galileo's point was sound.

Besides, everybody knows that gays are the new African-Americans.

The phrase "atheists = the new African-Americans" is pure hyperbole.  That's all I'm trying to say.

Ah, then it seems we're in agreement after all. I was remembering a different part of his post entirely, and must have dismissed the differences that I didn't think he meant to make. For instance, "the atheists cannot be the new African Americans because they aren't black", and "the atheists cannot be the new African Americans because they aren't lynched" were both things I would have dismissed from his intended meaning of that equality. I saw it as new African Americans in respect to their violations of freedom of speech because he used it at the end of a freedom of speech violation topic. I saw black as irrelevant to his comparison as much as violence, but looking it over I can see how it can go both ways.

If he really intended to compare physical abuse too, I completely missed it first time around. Maybe he'll come back and tell us what he meant. 

The phrase "atheists = the new African-Americans" is pure hyperbole.  That's all I'm trying to say, and it's why I still think Galileo's point was sound.

Besides, everybody knows that gays are the new African-Americans.

I've always found "the new blacks" to be more punchy, but otherwise I agree.

I'm going to put up a billboard that says "I don't believe in purple unicorns and that doesn't make me a bad person." Does their overwhelming need to belong to a group have to turn them into retards?

Organized religion is essentially a bunch of people wanting to join a group.  Some Christians' overwhelming need to belong to a group has turned them into retards.

Quote from: Raist on July 26, 2009, 01:31:15 PM

I'm going to put up a billboard that says "I don't believe in purple unicorns and that doesn't make me a bad person." Does their overwhelming need to belong to a group have to turn them into retards?

Organized religion is essentially a bunch of people wanting to join a group.  Some Christians' overwhelming need to belong to a group has turned them into retards.

Did I say any different? I just think it is hypocritical to form a persecution complex just to feel like you are in a group. It's sad.

If you really want to join a group find something you are passionate about and go from there. It's kind of pitiful if your only common interest is not believing in a deity.

Quote from: T.P. Crockmier on August 24, 2009, 06:04:43 PM

Quote from: Raist on July 26, 2009, 01:31:15 PM

I'm going to put up a billboard that says "I don't believe in purple unicorns and that doesn't make me a bad person." Does their overwhelming need to belong to a group have to turn them into retards?

Organized religion is essentially a bunch of people wanting to join a group.  Some Christians' overwhelming need to belong to a group has turned them into retards.

Did I say any different? I just think it is hypocritical to form a persecution complex just to feel like you are in a group. It's sad.

If you really want to join a group find something you are passionate about and go from there. It's kind of pitiful if your only common interest is not believing in a deity.

Opposed to forming a group with the only common interest is believing in a deity?

Quote from: Raist on August 24, 2009, 06:32:50 PM

Quote from: T.P. Crockmier on August 24, 2009, 06:04:43 PM

Quote from: Raist on July 26, 2009, 01:31:15 PM

I'm going to put up a billboard that says "I don't believe in purple unicorns and that doesn't make me a bad person." Does their overwhelming need to belong to a group have to turn them into retards?

Organized religion is essentially a bunch of people wanting to join a group.  Some Christians' overwhelming need to belong to a group has turned them into retards.

Did I say any different? I just think it is hypocritical to form a persecution complex just to feel like you are in a group. It's sad.

If you really want to join a group find something you are passionate about and go from there. It's kind of pitiful if your only common interest is not believing in a deity.

Opposed to forming a group with the only common interest is believing in a deity?

Never heard of a group that you join simply for believing in a deity. It's usually people who believe in the same deity and have the same set of customs surrounding their worship of it. That's quite a bit in common.

Quote from: sokarul on August 24, 2009, 06:35:03 PM

Quote from: Raist on August 24, 2009, 06:32:50 PM

Quote from: T.P. Crockmier on August 24, 2009, 06:04:43 PM

Quote from: Raist on July 26, 2009, 01:31:15 PM

I'm going to put up a billboard that says "I don't believe in purple unicorns and that doesn't make me a bad person." Does their overwhelming need to belong to a group have to turn them into retards?

Organized religion is essentially a bunch of people wanting to join a group.  Some Christians' overwhelming need to belong to a group has turned them into retards.

Did I say any different? I just think it is hypocritical to form a persecution complex just to feel like you are in a group. It's sad.

If you really want to join a group find something you are passionate about and go from there. It's kind of pitiful if your only common interest is not believing in a deity.

Opposed to forming a group with the only common interest is believing in a deity?

Never heard of a group that you join simply for believing in a deity. It's usually people who believe in the same deity and have the same set of customs surrounding their worship of it. That's quite a bit in common.

So atheists don't have the ability to have anything else in common?  This can go on forever.  Atheists are not any different then theists.  I don't totally agree with T.P. Crockmier.   

Christian extremists use fear and pressure as motivators to try to convince people to join their church.  They believe that anyone not associated with their church will burn in hell.  Family members have been ostracized due to their wanting to be different. 

Buddhism, the only organized religion I am partial to, does not ostracize people for wanting to be different.  Buddhists embrace the sanctity of all sentient life forms, regardless of sexuality, religion, or species.

I am absolutely not insinuating that all Christians are assholes. 

Quote from: Raist on August 24, 2009, 06:37:08 PM

Quote from: sokarul on August 24, 2009, 06:35:03 PM

Quote from: Raist on August 24, 2009, 06:32:50 PM

Quote from: T.P. Crockmier on August 24, 2009, 06:04:43 PM

Quote from: Raist on July 26, 2009, 01:31:15 PM

I'm going to put up a billboard that says "I don't believe in purple unicorns and that doesn't make me a bad person." Does their overwhelming need to belong to a group have to turn them into retards?

Organized religion is essentially a bunch of people wanting to join a group.  Some Christians' overwhelming need to belong to a group has turned them into retards.

Did I say any different? I just think it is hypocritical to form a persecution complex just to feel like you are in a group. It's sad.

If you really want to join a group find something you are passionate about and go from there. It's kind of pitiful if your only common interest is not believing in a deity.

Opposed to forming a group with the only common interest is believing in a deity?

Never heard of a group that you join simply for believing in a deity. It's usually people who believe in the same deity and have the same set of customs surrounding their worship of it. That's quite a bit in common.

So atheists don't have the ability to have anything else in common?  This can go on forever.  Atheists are not any different then theists.  I don't totally agree with T.P. Crockmier.   

No they aren't. I still think forming a group around atheism is a ridiculous idea. They may have something in common, but this organization is just really odd.