Conspiracy Theorists

  • 81 Replies
  • 9925 Views
*

Moon squirter

  • 1405
  • Ding dong!
Re: Conspiracy Theorists
« Reply #60 on: July 09, 2009, 06:48:53 AM »
That's why the acceleration of the earth is the better explanation. One explanation is possible with known science, while the other is not.

Again, another clumsy plea to ignorance.  We don't fully understand gravitons, so they must be wrong and the UA must be correct

Lots of things are "possible with known science".  That doesn't mean they're happening.  The UA starts with a simple explanation and then quickly runs into complex and unresolvable difficulties:  We don't know the cause and there's no independent supporting evidence.

Come, Tom, your better than that?
I haven't performed it and I've never claimed to. I've have trouble being in two places at the same time.

*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17830
Re: Conspiracy Theorists
« Reply #61 on: July 09, 2009, 07:30:33 AM »
Quote
Unknown and not understood are not synonyms for impossible.  Gravitons warp space-time and bodies naturally follow the resulting geodesic.  The exact mechanism is not understood, but then again neither is the mechanism that causes mass.

Gravitons don't "warp space time". I don't know what you're talking about. QM and GR are exclusive.

Quote
Again, another clumsy plea to ignorance.  We don't fully understand gravitons, so they must be wrong and the UA must be correct.

No. It's not "we don't fully understand gravitons". It's "we made it up without one single piece of evidence to back it up".

Gravitons are complete fiction.

Quote
Lots of things are "possible with known science".  That doesn't mean they're happening.  The UA starts with a simple explanation and then quickly runs into complex and unresolvable difficulties:  We don't know the cause and there's no independent supporting evidence.

Acceleration of the earth is possible. Gravitons are not possible. Please refer to the flowchart I've provided on the previous page.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2009, 07:35:20 AM by Tom Bishop »

*

Moon squirter

  • 1405
  • Ding dong!
Re: Conspiracy Theorists
« Reply #62 on: July 09, 2009, 08:04:00 AM »
Acceleration of the earth is possible. Gravitons are not possible.

Yet another logical facility.  You're getting good at this.

It's the cause of the acceleration, not the acceleration itself that is the issue.  You don't know what it is or what causes it.  Therefore the rest of the theory is hypothetical.  Also, what makes it stable?  What holds the flat earth together if there is no gravity?  If there is gravity, why doesn't it collapse on itself? All other explosions (include the big bang) are irregular and chaotic.

Gravitons are postulated because they are predicted to exist by the well established quantum field theory.  They may or may not exist, but they have a starting point in an established model.   There is not model below the flat earth, just words.

You're only chance would be to distinguish pure acceleration from gravitation, but that, I'm afraid, is currently impossible.
I haven't performed it and I've never claimed to. I've have trouble being in two places at the same time.

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 42361
Re: Conspiracy Theorists
« Reply #63 on: July 09, 2009, 08:07:22 AM »
Quote
Unknown and not understood are not synonyms for impossible.  Gravitons warp space-time and bodies naturally follow the resulting geodesic.  The exact mechanism is not understood, but then again neither is the mechanism that causes mass.

Gravitons don't "warp space time". I don't know what you're talking about. QM and GR are exclusive.

Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_gravity
Quantum gravity (QG) is the field of theoretical physics attempting to unify quantum mechanics with general relativity in a self-consistent manner

Quote
Quote
Again, another clumsy plea to ignorance.  We don't fully understand gravitons, so they must be wrong and the UA must be correct.

No. It's not "we don't fully understand gravitons". It's "we made it up without one single piece of evidence to back it up".

Gravitons are complete fiction.

Even if you're right about gravitons being fiction, that doesn't make the UA any more plausible.

Quote
Quote
Lots of things are "possible with known science".  That doesn't mean they're happening.  The UA starts with a simple explanation and then quickly runs into complex and unresolvable difficulties:  We don't know the cause and there's no independent supporting evidence.

Acceleration of the earth is possible. Gravitons are not possible. Please refer to the flowchart I've provided on the previous page.

You still haven't given a reason as to why gravitons are impossible.  Impossible to detect?  Perhaps.  Impossible to exist?  That's a completely different matter.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Conspiracy Theorists
« Reply #64 on: July 09, 2009, 09:10:31 AM »
This is one of the funniest threads I have ever read. Let me sum it up for you guys:

OP - Conspiracy is a super easy and convenient way to explain things. You can leave out whatever you want and make up whatever you want
RE- Rowbotham is a god
RE- No rowbotham was crap and everybody but you knows it
RE- No gravitons are crap. New science is needed to explain it
RE- No UA is crap. No science can possibly explain it
RE- No I already said Gravitons are crap. New science need to be dreamed up. Cant you see that the world rushes up to meet you when you walk off a chair?
RE- No I already said UA is crap. There is no science that could explain it. Cant you see that the world is held together by Gravity and we are held to it because of gravity?
RE - Blah blah blah Gravity is crap
RE- BLAH BLAH BLAH UA is crap
RE - BLAH bLAH bLAH Gravity is crap
RE- BLAH BLAH BLAH UA is crap
This could go on forever, and is hilarious.

Here is what we are all missing. Since we all agree that the lay-mans experience of gravity or UA is indistinguishable we can not go on our personal observations about it. Unless we are Scientists and physics majors we do not have the knowledge required to debate the subject properly. I.e. with evidence and data.

All we have is our opinions. So IMHO it does not matter whether or not gravitons are real for me to be able to make very accurate predictions and measurements based on the near universal acceptance of how gravity works. No new branch of science is needed to explain to me how gravity works whether or not we can prove the existence of gravitons.

There is not one shred of scientific evidence for the FE model that is used on this forum. Some of the ideas are plausible and have merit in how they can be observed. However the only way the FE model can be explained is by a herculean conspiracy (hey that is the OP's point) and to completely throw out modern scientific knowledge. Just because this thread is having trouble with Gravity VS UA does not mean that countless other threads have resulted in complete win for RE.


« Last Edit: July 09, 2009, 09:34:13 AM by Sentient Pizza »
Your god was nailed to a cross. Mine carries a hammer...... any questions?

?

zork

  • 3319
Re: Conspiracy Theorists
« Reply #65 on: July 09, 2009, 10:24:32 AM »
It's easy to see the earth accelerate upwards. Just walk off a chair an observe the surface of the earth carefully. You will see that it accelerates upwards to you.
Never seen it. I feel itself dragged to the ground only. I am certain that gravitons do it.

Subatomic "gravitons" telling bodies which direction to move towards are not possible. An entirely new fabricated branch of science would need to be invented for it to be possible.
That's why the acceleration of the earth is the better explanation. One explanation is possible with known science, while the other is not.
I never question the acceleration. I ask you what creates acceleration because acceleration without cause is magic. And you still fail in explanation.

Gravitons       ->      Impossible
Gravitons are not impossible. They are are quite probable. They are just not detected yet because we don't have equipments needed. There were times when neutrinos, photons, etc weren't detected but now they are. If you say that gravitons are impossible just because we don't have equipment to detect them then you say that neutrinos, photons and other elementary particles are impossible just because humans weren't able to detect them in some period of time. In short, you have acceleration and some kind of magic, which you can't describe and which causes acceleration. Other side has theoretical elementary particles, which we are not yet able to detect but has some kind of theory behind it. I vote for undetected elementary particles rather than for magic.
Rowbotham had bad eyesight
-
http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.

*

Moon squirter

  • 1405
  • Ding dong!
Re: Conspiracy Theorists
« Reply #66 on: July 09, 2009, 11:03:59 AM »
This is one of the funniest threads I have ever read. Let me sum it up for you guys:

OP - Conspiracy is a super easy and convenient way to explain things. You can leave out whatever you want and make up whatever you want
RE- Rowbotham is a god
RE- No rowbotham was crap and everybody but you knows it
RE- No gravitons are crap. New science is needed to explain it
...
...

Good point well made.   I'm afraid I just can't help it when faced with FE hypocrisy.
I haven't performed it and I've never claimed to. I've have trouble being in two places at the same time.

Re: Conspiracy Theorists
« Reply #67 on: July 09, 2009, 03:13:42 PM »
fundamental particles that cause attraction like gluons were not thought to exist and attract the nuclei of atoms together, and yet they do.

How do they tell the particles in the nuclei which direction to accelerate?


The force is observed.  In the celestial bodies close to us, gravity works to a VERY accurate degree.  Of course you discredit this because of things observed VERY far, which are hard to measure as accurately as the objects close to us (that is, we would expect a large amount of error)

If the fundamental particle theory IS right about gravity in the RE theory, it may very well explain the existance, or lack of, dark matter.  Similar to how you have VERY low probabilities of strange occurances between charged particles close up.

Re: Conspiracy Theorists
« Reply #68 on: July 10, 2009, 12:45:39 PM »
Please read Earth Not a Globe for the science and evidence behind the FET

Nothing could discredit FET more than having to rely on pseudo-scientifc nonsense such as Earth Not a Globe in order to support or justify it.

?

Abysmal

  • 168
  • now with more tentacles
Re: Conspiracy Theorists
« Reply #69 on: July 10, 2009, 01:20:46 PM »
science and evidence behind the FET

made me lol

Former Satanic Conspirator-now i've seen the bendy light.

*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17830
Re: Conspiracy Theorists
« Reply #70 on: July 10, 2009, 06:05:24 PM »
It's the cause of the acceleration, not the acceleration itself that is the issue.  You don't know what it is or what causes it.  Therefore the rest of the theory is hypothetical.  Also, what makes it stable?  What holds the flat earth together if there is no gravity?  If there is gravity, why doesn't it collapse on itself? All other explosions (include the big bang) are irregular and chaotic.

It doesn't matter what causes it. Obviously we couldn't know until we see it. What matters is that acceleration is possible. And vast amounts of energy contained in the universe is possible. It's all possible on our end.

"Gravitons" telling mass which direction to accelerate in is not possible. Where does the energy come from? How does a sub atomic particle tell a body which direction to accelerate in? These are questions which cannot be answered with existing science. Entirely new branches of science need to be created to explain these things.

This brings us back to the flowchart:


------------------------------------------

Acceleration      ->      Possible

Gravitons       ->      Impossible

------------------------------------------
« Last Edit: July 10, 2009, 06:07:50 PM by Tom Bishop »

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 42361
Re: Conspiracy Theorists
« Reply #71 on: July 10, 2009, 06:19:59 PM »
"Gravitons" telling mass which direction to accelerate in is not possible. Where does the energy come from? How does a sub atomic particle tell a body which direction to accelerate in?

How does a gluon keep protons from flying away from each other in an atomic nucleus?  How does any gauge boson work?  Where does the energy come from?
« Last Edit: July 10, 2009, 06:23:03 PM by markjo »
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

Ichimaru Gin :]

  • Undefeated FEer
  • Planar Moderator
  • 8847
  • Semper vigilans
Re: Conspiracy Theorists
« Reply #72 on: July 10, 2009, 06:23:14 PM »
Please read Earth Not a Globe for the science and evidence behind the FET

Nothing could discredit FET more than having to rely on pseudo-scientifc nonsense such as Earth Not a Globe in order to support or justify it.
What justification of the RET do you have?
I saw a slight haze in the hotel bathroom this morning after I took a shower, have I discovered a new planet?

*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17830
Re: Conspiracy Theorists
« Reply #73 on: July 10, 2009, 07:51:30 PM »
How does a gluon keep protons from flying away from each other in an atomic nucleus?  How does any gauge boson work?  Where does the energy come from?

I'm sorry, but what does that have to do with my question?

Re: Conspiracy Theorists
« Reply #74 on: July 10, 2009, 08:08:44 PM »
How does a gluon keep protons from flying away from each other in an atomic nucleus?  How does any gauge boson work?  Where does the energy come from?

I'm sorry, but what does that have to do with my question?


the directionality of those particles do exactly what you claim is impossible

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 42361
Re: Conspiracy Theorists
« Reply #75 on: July 10, 2009, 08:17:20 PM »
How does a gluon keep protons from flying away from each other in an atomic nucleus?  How does any gauge boson work?  Where does the energy come from?

I'm sorry, but what does that have to do with my question?

A graviton is a theoretical gauge boson.  Gravitons would work pretty much the same way as other gauge bosons.  So where do other gauge bosons get their energy?  How do other gauge bosons interact with other particles?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17830
Re: Conspiracy Theorists
« Reply #76 on: July 10, 2009, 08:28:32 PM »
You're supposed to be telling us how gravitons tell bodies to accelerate in a specific direction. How about it?

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 42361
Re: Conspiracy Theorists
« Reply #77 on: July 10, 2009, 08:57:10 PM »
You're supposed to be telling us how gravitons tell bodies to accelerate in a specific direction. How about it?

In a similar manner to how gluons tell like charged protons to stick together in an atomic nucleus, I would suspect.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17830
Re: Conspiracy Theorists
« Reply #78 on: July 10, 2009, 09:11:25 PM »
I'm sorry, but how do gravitons tell bodies to accelerate towards the earth again?
« Last Edit: July 11, 2009, 06:58:45 PM by Tom Bishop »

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 42361
Re: Conspiracy Theorists
« Reply #79 on: July 11, 2009, 05:57:00 AM »
I' sorry, but how do gravitons tell bodies to accelerate towards the earth again?
The same way other gauge bosons work.  Are you not paying attention?  Am I stuttering?  ???

I'm being just as specific about how gravitons work as you are about how the UA works.  Deal with it.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2009, 05:59:11 AM by markjo »
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Conspiracy Theorists
« Reply #80 on: July 11, 2009, 06:31:49 AM »
we should draw some feynman diagrams, but whats the point? the fact is fundamental particles exist that work nearly teh same way as gravity.

?

zork

  • 3319
Re: Conspiracy Theorists
« Reply #81 on: July 12, 2009, 11:12:06 AM »
It doesn't matter what causes it. Obviously we couldn't know until we see it. What matters is that acceleration is possible. And vast amounts of energy contained in the universe is possible. It's all possible on our end.
Nothing is possible on your end. No energy source, no acceleration. If acceleration exists then you fail do describe the source of acceleration and we can conclude that acceleration is based on magic.
 Gravitons in other hand are theoretical elementary particles exactly as were neutrinos or photons some time ago.

And this brings us back to the flowchart:


---------------------------------------------------------------

                      Gravitons       ->      Possible

Acceleration without energy source      ->      Impossible

---------------------------------------------------------------
Rowbotham had bad eyesight
-
http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.