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About space travel.

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Broojo02

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About space travel.
« on: July 06, 2009, 10:52:01 AM »
I was gonnna post this in the stupid questions topic but its locked :( Anyway with UA being a very good alternative to gravity that emulates it very well etc I just wanted to know why space travel isn't possible according to the FET. We could overcome gravity with good rocket boosters and stuff so why can't we do it with the UA theory.

I feel like this is a stupid question... please don't troll me.  :'(
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Lord Wilmore

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Re: About space travel.
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2009, 11:22:34 AM »
Sustained spaceflight is generally regarded as practically impossible, depending on who you speak to. The amount of fuel which would be needed to escape the earth would make sustained space flight impractical, as the earth is constantly accelerating.
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markjo

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Re: About space travel.
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2009, 12:14:01 PM »
But you don't need to escape the earth.  You just need to enter the influence of the UA like the sun, moon and other celestial objects.
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Lord Wilmore

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Re: About space travel.
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2009, 12:35:12 PM »
Quote from: markjo on July 06, 2009, 12:14:01 PM
But you don't need to escape the earth.  You just need to enter the influence of the UA like the sun, moon and other celestial objects.
.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2009, 01:26:14 PM by Lord Wilmore »
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markjo

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Re: About space travel.
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2009, 12:52:55 PM »
Quote from: Lord Wilmore on July 06, 2009, 12:35:12 PM
Quote from: markjo on July 06, 2009, 12:14:01 PM
But you don't need to escape the earth.  You just need to enter the influence of the UA like the sun, moon and other celestial objects.

And how would this not involve escaping the earth?

That would depend on where the influence of the UA begins.
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Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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Lord Wilmore

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Re: About space travel.
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2009, 01:02:57 PM »
Even in theory, the Saturn V rockets used most of their thrust to get about (my memory is hazy here) 100 miles up. The sun is a lot further away than that.
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markjo

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Re: About space travel.
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2009, 01:16:42 PM »
But how do we know that the sun is at the lower limit of the UA's influence?  Is the lower limit of the UA's influence even known?
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Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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James

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Re: About space travel.
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2009, 02:53:16 AM »
Quote from: markjo on July 06, 2009, 12:14:01 PM
But you don't need to escape the earth.  You just need to enter the influence of the UA like the sun, moon and other celestial objects.

You have a flawed conception of what the UA is and how it works.
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Euclid

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Re: About space travel.
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2009, 03:01:49 AM »
Quote from: J. McIntyre on July 07, 2009, 02:53:16 AM
Quote from: markjo on July 06, 2009, 12:14:01 PM
But you don't need to escape the earth.  You just need to enter the influence of the UA like the sun, moon and other celestial objects.

You have a flawed conception of what the UA is and how it works.

There are many conceptions of the UA that are compatible with observable evidence; among them is markjo's.
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Yes, thanks to the tireless efforts of Euclid and a few other mathematically-inclined members, electromagnetic acceleration is fast moving into the forefront of FE research.
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James

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Re: About space travel.
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2009, 03:18:07 AM »
Quote from: Euclid on July 07, 2009, 03:01:49 AM
There are many conceptions of the UA that are compatible with observable evidence; among them is markjo's.

Compatible perhaps, but it requires explanation by appeal to a magical force, which is one of the chief weaknesses of globularism.
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markjo

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Re: About space travel.
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2009, 06:19:25 AM »
Quote from: J. McIntyre on July 07, 2009, 03:18:07 AM
Quote from: Euclid on July 07, 2009, 03:01:49 AM
There are many conceptions of the UA that are compatible with observable evidence; among them is markjo's.

Compatible perhaps, but it requires explanation by appeal to a magical force, which is one of the chief weaknesses of globularism.

If my misconception of the UA is an appeal to a magical force, then it's to FE's magical force, not RE's.  Seeing as I'm not a FE'er, most of my arguments are, pretty much by necessity, based on the most widely supported version of FET in general and, in this case, the UA in particular.
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Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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James

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Re: About space travel.
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2009, 10:21:33 AM »
Quote from: markjo on July 07, 2009, 06:19:25 AM
If my misconception of the UA is an appeal to a magical force, then it's to FE's magical force, not RE's.  Seeing as I'm not a FE'er, most of my arguments are, pretty much by necessity, based on the most widely supported version of FET in general and, in this case, the UA in particular.

It doesn't matter whose magical force it is. I am equally dismissive of magical forces of both origins. You also have a flawed conception of "the most widely supported version of FET". The notion you are appealing to has been invented ex nihilo by a handful of devil's advocates, just like you, who don't even believe the Earth is flat in the first place. You are collectively undermining the legitimacy of the theory which is believed by ACTUAL Flat Earthers by posting these absurd fantasies under the guise of zeteticism.

That you are actually a globularist explains your ability to countenance phantasmal science fiction as serious possibility.

Euclid, why are you calling it 'markjo's model' like it's some kind of serious alternative when he freely admits that he doesn't even believe his own completely made-up theory? What's the point in even seriously considering a proposal which is openly disbelieved by its main proponent?
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markjo

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Re: About space travel.
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2009, 01:19:53 PM »
Quote from: J. McIntyre on July 07, 2009, 10:21:33 AM
Quote from: markjo on July 07, 2009, 06:19:25 AM
If my misconception of the UA is an appeal to a magical force, then it's to FE's magical force, not RE's.  Seeing as I'm not a FE'er, most of my arguments are, pretty much by necessity, based on the most widely supported version of FET in general and, in this case, the UA in particular.

It doesn't matter whose magical force it is. I am equally dismissive of magical forces of both origins. You also have a flawed conception of "the most widely supported version of FET". The notion you are appealing to has been invented ex nihilo by a handful of devil's advocates, just like you, who don't even believe the Earth is flat in the first place. You are collectively undermining the legitimacy of the theory which is believed by ACTUAL Flat Earthers by posting these absurd fantasies under the guise of zeteticism.

That you are actually a globularist explains your ability to countenance phantasmal science fiction as serious possibility.

Euclid, why are you calling it 'markjo's model' like it's some kind of serious alternative when he freely admits that he doesn't even believe his own completely made-up theory? What's the point in even seriously considering a proposal which is openly disbelieved by its main proponent?

OK, Dogplatter.  I'm willing to consider pretty much anybody's FE model, including yours.  Now, let's see if I have this right.  You believe that the sun and moon are metallic discs being held aloft by means of photoelectric suspension, correct?  Just out of curiosity, do you know what metal(s) make up the sun and/or moon?  Do you agree with the 32 mile diameter estimate for the sun and moon?  The reason I ask is because I did a few quick calculations and came to the conclusion that a 32 mile diameter, 1 inch thick moon made out of aluminum would weigh a little over 158 million tons.  I chose aluminum because it's a light metal, but the actual metal(s) may more dense.  I also chose 1 inch thick as a bare minimum thickness, I'm sure that it would need to be much thicker.

So, my question is to you - if there is enough photoelectric energy to support a 158 million ton moon, then why can't the NASA eggheads figure out how to tap into this incredible power source.  Also, why hasn't that much photoelectric energy fried us all to a crisp?
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SoundReason

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Re: About space travel.
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2009, 02:02:17 PM »
Quote from: markjo on July 06, 2009, 12:52:55 PM
Quote from: Lord Wilmore on July 06, 2009, 12:35:12 PM
Quote from: markjo on July 06, 2009, 12:14:01 PM
But you don't need to escape the earth.  You just need to enter the influence of the UA like the sun, moon and other celestial objects.

And how would this not involve escaping the earth?

That would depend on where the influence of the UA begins.

The UA begins on the underside of the earth. It extends for billions of miles "up" into space. We may never know exactly where it ends unfortunately.
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cdenley

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Re: About space travel.
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2009, 02:10:02 PM »
Quote from: SoundReason on July 07, 2009, 02:02:17 PM
Quote from: markjo on July 06, 2009, 12:52:55 PM
Quote from: Lord Wilmore on July 06, 2009, 12:35:12 PM
Quote from: markjo on July 06, 2009, 12:14:01 PM
But you don't need to escape the earth.  You just need to enter the influence of the UA like the sun, moon and other celestial objects.

And how would this not involve escaping the earth?

That would depend on where the influence of the UA begins.

The UA begins on the underside of the earth. It extends for billions of miles "up" into space. We may never know exactly where it ends unfortunately.
Then according to your description, we are being accelerated by the UA, and are currently floating at the earth's surface. Obviously, that is not the case. Some have suggested that the earth prevents the UA from accelerating us by blocking or deflecting it, yet it accelerates the sun since it is further from the earth. Therefore, at the surface of the earth, the UA has no effect, but at some point between there and the sun, it does. Where is this point?
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SoundReason

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Re: About space travel.
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2009, 02:19:21 PM »
Quote from: cdenley on July 07, 2009, 02:10:02 PM
Then according to your description, we are being accelerated by the UA, and are currently floating at the earth's surface. Obviously, that is not the case. Some have suggested that the earth prevents the UA from accelerating us by blocking or deflecting it, yet it accelerates the sun since it is further from the earth. Therefore, at the surface of the earth, the UA has no effect, but at some point between there and the sun, it does. Where is this point?

You clearly do not undertstand how the UA works. You cannot "block" its effects! How would such blocking take place? Perhaps with a large amount of lead lining?!
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cdenley

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Re: About space travel.
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2009, 02:27:01 PM »
Quote from: SoundReason on July 07, 2009, 02:19:21 PM
Quote from: cdenley on July 07, 2009, 02:10:02 PM
Then according to your description, we are being accelerated by the UA, and are currently floating at the earth's surface. Obviously, that is not the case. Some have suggested that the earth prevents the UA from accelerating us by blocking or deflecting it, yet it accelerates the sun since it is further from the earth. Therefore, at the surface of the earth, the UA has no effect, but at some point between there and the sun, it does. Where is this point?

You clearly do not undertstand how the UA works. You cannot "block" its effects! How would such blocking take place? Perhaps with a large amount of lead lining?!
I never claimed it did. As I said, FET'ers have made that claim. Specifically, I have read that the earth deflects the dark energy and causes a barrier at the edges to hold the atmosphere over the earth. Since you think deflecting the UA is absurd, why do you suggest the UA doesn't accelerate us, since you claim it's effects are present from the bottom of the earth to billions of miles up into space.
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markjo

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Re: About space travel.
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2009, 02:54:53 PM »
Quote from: SoundReason on July 07, 2009, 02:19:21 PM
You clearly do not undertstand how the UA works. You cannot "block" its effects! How would such blocking take place? Perhaps with a large amount of lead lining?!

I think that FE'ers need to get together and agree how the UA works.  That would be significant progress.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: About space travel.
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2009, 05:49:14 PM »
Quote from: markjo on July 07, 2009, 02:54:53 PM
I think that FE'ers need to get together and agree how the UA works.  That would be significant progress.

We know how it works. The earth accelerates upwards.

It's actually the RE'ers who need to figure out how "gravitons" work.
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cdenley

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Re: About space travel.
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2009, 06:16:52 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on July 07, 2009, 05:49:14 PM
Quote from: markjo on July 07, 2009, 02:54:53 PM
I think that FE'ers need to get together and agree how the UA works.  That would be significant progress.

We know how it works. The earth accelerates upwards.

It's actually the RE'ers who need to figure out how "gravitons" work.
Did you read the thread? Is there an altitude at which the UA would act on objects that leave the surface of the earth? How does the UA accelerate the earth? Does the UA accelerate the sun? Can the dark energy be deflected? Does the deflected dark energy contain the atmosphere? What is your obsession with gravitons? I think the bending of spacetime is the more accepted theory.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: About space travel.
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2009, 06:29:29 PM »
None of that matters. The only thing that matters is that the earth is accelerating upwards.
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cdenley

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Re: About space travel.
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2009, 07:09:29 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on July 07, 2009, 06:29:29 PM
None of that matters. The only thing that matters is that the earth is accelerating upwards.
It certainly matters relevant to this thread. If the UA can act on a spaceship, space travel is possible. At what height would the spaceship have to reach for the UA to accelerate it along with the earth?
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Tom Bishop

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Re: About space travel.
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2009, 07:36:02 PM »
As far as I'm aware the UA is pushing the earth upwards as a mechanical action, which makes sustained space travel impossible.

The sun and stars are riding atop the earth, levitated by electric or magnetic interaction.
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cdenley

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Re: About space travel.
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2009, 07:43:18 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on July 07, 2009, 07:36:02 PM
As far as I'm aware the UA is pushing the earth upwards as a mechanical action, which makes sustained space travel impossible.

The sun and stars are riding atop the earth, levitated by electric or magnetic interaction.
Can you describe that "mechanical action"? What is the mechanism? How does it work? Why wouldn't it be possible for a spacecraft to be "levitated by electric or magnetic interaction"?
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Tom Bishop

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Re: About space travel.
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2009, 07:48:57 PM »
Quote from: cdenley on July 07, 2009, 07:43:18 PM
Can you describe that "mechanical action"?

Mechanical action occurs as a result of the earth's upwards movement. We are pinned to the earth because the earth is accelerating upwards and we are not.

Quote
What is the mechanism? How does it work?

The mechanism which pushes the earth is unknown.

Quote
Why wouldn't it be possible for a spacecraft to be "levitated by electric or magnetic interaction"?

A spacecraft is neither a sun or a star.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2009, 07:52:40 PM by Tom Bishop »
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cdenley

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Re: About space travel.
« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2009, 07:58:09 PM »
Quote from: cdenley on July 07, 2009, 07:43:18 PM
The mechanism which pushes the earth is unknown.
Sounds like magic to me.

Quote from: Tom Bishop on July 07, 2009, 07:48:57 PM
A spacecraft is neither a sun or a star.
What do you believe the sun and the stars are made of? What causes them to levitate "by electric or magnetic interaction"? Some say they are metal discs. We can make metal discs.
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Squat

Re: About space travel.
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2009, 11:12:39 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on July 07, 2009, 05:49:14 PM
Quote from: markjo on July 07, 2009, 02:54:53 PM
I think that FE'ers need to get together and agree how the UA works.  That would be significant progress.

We know how it works. The earth accelerates upwards.


The 'earth accelerates upwards'  is an effect . It does not tell us how it works. My car accelerates from 0 to 60 mph in 11 seconds. What type of fuel does it use?


Quote from: Tom Bishop on July 07, 2009, 05:49:14 PM
It's actually the RE'ers who need to figure out how "gravitons" work.


I'm sure there are many RE'ers and scientists who would dearly love to know how gravitons work. But to use your own logic, it accelerates objects towards the earth.


So, how does UA work then. What is the 'mechanism' (not the effect)?
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dyno

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Re: About space travel.
« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2009, 11:23:02 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on July 07, 2009, 05:49:14 PM
Quote from: markjo on July 07, 2009, 02:54:53 PM
I think that FE'ers need to get together and agree how the UA works.  That would be significant progress.

We know how it works. The earth accelerates upwards.

It's actually the RE'ers who need to figure out how "gravitons" work.
Quote from: Tom Bishop on July 07, 2009, 07:48:57 PM
Quote from: cdenley on July 07, 2009, 07:43:18 PM
Can you describe that "mechanical action"?

Known or unknown? Which one is it? You seem confused yourself.
Mechanical action occurs as a result of the earth's upwards movement. We are pinned to the earth because the earth is accelerating upwards and we are not.

Quote
What is the mechanism? How does it work?

The mechanism which pushes the earth is unknown.

Quote
Why wouldn't it be possible for a spacecraft to be "levitated by electric or magnetic interaction"?

A spacecraft is neither a sun or a star.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: About space travel.
« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2009, 11:24:28 PM »
Quote
I'm sure there are many RE'ers and scientists who would dearly love to know how gravitons work. But to use your own logic, it accelerates objects towards the earth.

So, how does UA work then. What is the 'mechanism' (not the effect)?

The mechanism which pushes the earth is unknown.
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Squat

Re: About space travel.
« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2009, 11:32:33 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on July 07, 2009, 11:24:28 PM
Quote
I'm sure there are many RE'ers and scientists who would dearly love to know how gravitons work. But to use your own logic, it accelerates objects towards the earth.

So, how does UA work then. What is the 'mechanism' (not the effect)?

The mechanism which pushes the earth is unknown.

As the effect is the same as gravity then, why should UA be more believable?  Or are we simply debating the name of the effect?
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