Mr Bishop! Anyone! Help Please!

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Squat

Re: Mr Bishop! Anyone! Help Please!
« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2009, 05:56:06 AM »
The height of waves in the photograph are in no way able to account for the bulk of the missing yacht. The waves are negligible; I'd take my 5 metre boat out in that sea without a thought. There is probably 30 feet in height of that yacht missing from view. Where is it?

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Squat

Re: Mr Bishop! Anyone! Help Please!
« Reply #31 on: July 07, 2009, 10:52:22 PM »
Nobody found that yacht yet?  There are no white tops on the waves, no evidence of a big swell on the tanker . . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaufort_scale

Nobody prepared to defend Rowbotham's claim that a mast head is more visible than the hull of a ship?

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3 Tesla

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Re: Mr Bishop! Anyone! Help Please!
« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2009, 03:33:00 AM »
Nobody prepared to defend Rowbotham's claim that a mast head is more visible than the hull of a ship?

Was Rowbotham talking about how the hull of a ship will apparently disappear before the sails?

Sails are of a similar size to the hull, I would suggest.

Either way, Rowbotham's theory of persepective seems highly counter-intuitive.

Edit: Plus I have never seen a Flat Earther present any evidence that a powerful telescope can "restore" a ship's hull from "over the horizon" so I am not inclined to believe it to be possible.
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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Squat

Re: Mr Bishop! Anyone! Help Please!
« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2009, 03:49:44 AM »
Nobody prepared to defend Rowbotham's claim that a mast head is more visible than the hull of a ship?

Was Rowbotham talking about how the hull of a ship will apparently disappear before the sails?

Sails are of a similar size to the hull, I would suggest.

Either way, Rowbotham's theory of persepective seems highly counter-intuitive.

Edit: Plus I have never seen a Flat Earther present any evidence that a powerful telescope can "restore" a ship's hull from "over the horizon" so I am not inclined to believe it to be possible.

Sails on the ships in Rowbotham's day would have been a similar size to the hull although would still taper towards the top of the mast. I don't dispute that, and he would have been wiser to use the word sails. But he didn't - he used the word mast-head.

The English language has enough words (even in the 19th century) to be specific. It also has enough words to be ambiguous.
 

 

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3 Tesla

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Re: Mr Bishop! Anyone! Help Please!
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2009, 04:48:59 AM »
Sails on the ships in Rowbotham's day would have been a similar size to the hull although would still taper towards the top of the mast. I don't dispute that, and he would have been wiser to use the word sails. But he didn't - he used the word mast-head.  

Thanks for that clarification.

This really is a case that the Flat Earth community needs to produce some photographic evidence showing that ships' hulls can be "restored" with appropriate magnification (zoom).

Edit 2: I.e. show some proof that Rowbotham's perspective theory is actually true.

The only experiment that I have seen was inconclusive.

Edit:

Pictures taken at Sea
http://theflatearthsociety.net/forum/index.php?topic=605.0
03/10/2008+

More Pictures at Sea
http://theflatearthsociety.net/forum/index.php?topic=649.0
18/10/2008+

Re: "Restore" experiment
http://theflatearthsociety.net/forum/index.php?topic=625.0
14/10/2008+
« Last Edit: July 08, 2009, 04:56:41 AM by 3 Tesla »
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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3 Tesla

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Re: Mr Bishop! Anyone! Help Please!
« Reply #35 on: July 09, 2009, 07:57:44 AM »
The only experiment that I have seen was inconclusive.

I want to modify that statement:

1. It was actually four experiments - two oil rigs both imaged on two different days, and

2. There was no "restoration" of height within experimental error.

Therefore the experiments do not support Rowbotham's theory on perspective.

The experiments were inconclusive, however, in that there was some recovery of height in all cases but this was always less than the associated experimental error.

Further experiments with a higher-powered lens would seem to be indicated, therefore.
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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Squat

Re: Mr Bishop! Anyone! Help Please!
« Reply #36 on: July 09, 2009, 08:13:46 AM »
The only experiment that I have seen was inconclusive.

I want to modify that statement:

1. It was actually four experiments - two oil rigs both imaged on two different days, and

2. There was no "restoration" of height within experimental error.

Therefore the experiments do not support Rowbotham's theory on perspective.

The experiments were inconclusive, however, in that there was some recovery of height in all cases but this was always less than the associated experimental error.

Further experiments with a higher-powered lens would seem to be indicated, therefore.

The disappearing boat isn't necessary at all. All you need is something that is visible at a decent distance, maybe 8 - 10 miles; an island, oil rig etc but stationary. Then go and stand in the sea with the water up to your neck and see if you can see the object. Things don't have to recede to disappear.

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3 Tesla

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Re: Mr Bishop! Anyone! Help Please!
« Reply #37 on: July 10, 2009, 02:20:36 PM »
The disappearing boat isn't necessary at all. All you need is something that is visible at a decent distance, maybe 8 - 10 miles; an island, oil rig etc but stationary.

"Rig Navigator" used to work on oil rigs (hence the name) ...

And it was he who carried out the "restore" experiment (in The Gulf Of Mexico) ...

I miss his input around here ...
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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Squat

Re: Mr Bishop! Anyone! Help Please!
« Reply #38 on: July 11, 2009, 09:11:01 AM »
The disappearing boat isn't necessary at all. All you need is something that is visible at a decent distance, maybe 8 - 10 miles; an island, oil rig etc but stationary.

"Rig Navigator" used to work on oil rigs (hence the name) ...

And it was he who carried out the "restore" experiment (in The Gulf Of Mexico) ...

I miss his input around here ...

The problem is 3 Tesla, photographs, depending on what they show, can and are ridiculed by both sides in the argument.

Anyway, no-one from the FE side wants to debate Mr Rowbothams claims that ships disappear because of perspective or that an object the size of a mast head would disappear from the observer's sight before the hull of a ship so I think I'll move on to the next section of Earth Not a Globe by the eminent scientist Stanley Birley Rowbotham and see what I can find there.

 

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EnigmaZV

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Re: Mr Bishop! Anyone! Help Please!
« Reply #39 on: July 11, 2009, 09:20:04 PM »
Read about how when you throw things up in the air how they lose forward momentum because they lose upward momentum
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=13138.0


Or his derivation of pi.
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25338.0

There are other good ones, but I'll let you discover those yourself.
I don't know what you're implying, but you're probably wrong.

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Squat

Re: Mr Bishop! Anyone! Help Please!
« Reply #40 on: July 11, 2009, 10:27:49 PM »
Read about how when you throw things up in the air how they lose forward momentum because they lose upward momentum
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=13138.0


Or his derivation of pi.
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25338.0

There are other good ones, but I'll let you discover those yourself.


Excellent stuff EnigmaZV, thanks for those links.  Obviously ENaG has been well dissected in the past. As I don't want to just rehash old arguments I'll have to be careful and research the forum carefully.

The lack of FE theorists' argument in favour of Rowbotham and ENaG is interesting. For a publication that gets this sort of comment: " . . . Earth Not a Globe, probably the most important science textbook of the last 500 years . . . " and the ubiquitous "read Earth Not a Globe by Stanley Birley Rowbotham" the lack of support in those two threads is both disappointing and, I think, indicative of no real belief in Rowbotham's science. Of course, that leads to the question "What do they actually believe?"


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3 Tesla

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Re: Mr Bishop! Anyone! Help Please!
« Reply #41 on: July 12, 2009, 09:03:39 AM »
So are we concluding that there is no real evidence to support Rowbotham's theories on perspective?
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Mr Bishop! Anyone! Help Please!
« Reply #42 on: July 12, 2009, 09:28:57 AM »
So are we concluding that there is no real evidence to support Rowbotham's theories on perspective?

Rowbotham gives a number of experimental examples in Earth Not a Globe.

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Squat

Re: Mr Bishop! Anyone! Help Please!
« Reply #43 on: July 12, 2009, 09:53:37 AM »
So are we concluding that there is no real evidence to support Rowbotham's theories on perspective?

Rowbotham gives a number of experimental examples in Earth Not a Globe.

The second edition does, yes. I shall be reading them carefully. 

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3 Tesla

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Re: Mr Bishop! Anyone! Help Please!
« Reply #44 on: July 12, 2009, 12:15:29 PM »
So are we concluding that there is no real evidence to support Rowbotham's theories on perspective?

Rowbotham gives a number of experimental examples in Earth Not a Globe.

I meant proper, independent evidence like modern-day photographs.

I am not prepared to take Rowbotham's evidence on anything.
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Mr Bishop! Anyone! Help Please!
« Reply #45 on: July 13, 2009, 12:45:11 AM »
I meant proper, independent evidence like modern-day photographs.

I am not prepared to take Rowbotham's evidence on anything.

Rowbotham's experimental evidence is just as overwhelming now as it was then.

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zork

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Re: Mr Bishop! Anyone! Help Please!
« Reply #46 on: July 13, 2009, 01:35:18 AM »
I meant proper, independent evidence like modern-day photographs.

I am not prepared to take Rowbotham's evidence on anything.

Rowbotham's experimental evidence is just as overwhelming now as it was then.
Experimental evidence requires some data and documentation. Where are you hiding that because in ENaG there is none. You itself fail to quote even one correctly documented experiment from ENaG. You can only quote descriptions for observations.
Rowbotham had bad eyesight
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http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.

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3 Tesla

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Re: Mr Bishop! Anyone! Help Please!
« Reply #47 on: July 13, 2009, 01:55:02 AM »
I meant proper, independent evidence like modern-day photographs.

I am not prepared to take Rowbotham's evidence on anything.

Rowbotham's experimental evidence is just as overwhelming now as it was then.

Please prove that to us by repeating some of his experiments.
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Mr Bishop! Anyone! Help Please!
« Reply #48 on: July 13, 2009, 02:12:38 AM »
Experimental evidence requires some data and documentation. Where are you hiding that because in ENaG there is none. You itself fail to quote even one correctly documented experiment from ENaG. You can only quote descriptions for observations.

The data and documentation is all in Earth: Not a Globe.

Quote
Please prove that to us by repeating some of his experiments.

I regularly repeat the convexity experiments across my bay for acquaintances.

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3 Tesla

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Re: Mr Bishop! Anyone! Help Please!
« Reply #49 on: July 13, 2009, 02:29:55 AM »
Quote
Please prove that to us by repeating some of his experiments.

I regularly repeat the convexity experiments across my bay for acquaintances.

What about us here on this forum?
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Mr Bishop! Anyone! Help Please!
« Reply #50 on: July 13, 2009, 02:35:39 AM »
What about us here on this forum?

Why, would you like a description of the results?
« Last Edit: July 13, 2009, 02:41:58 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Moon squirter

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Re: Mr Bishop! Anyone! Help Please!
« Reply #51 on: July 13, 2009, 02:42:23 AM »
Experimental evidence requires some data and documentation. Where are you hiding that because in ENaG there is none. You itself fail to quote even one correctly documented experiment from ENaG. You can only quote descriptions for observations.

The data and documentation is all in Earth: Not a Globe.

Quote
Please prove that to us by repeating some of his experiments.

I regularly repeat the convexity experiments across my bay for acquaintances.

We await the evidence with bated breath.  I cannot count the number of times people have requested photographic evidence from you, Tom.  All we have is your word alone.

Late edit:  Lets have those results with supporting photographic evidence, then
I haven't performed it and I've never claimed to. I've have trouble being in two places at the same time.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Mr Bishop! Anyone! Help Please!
« Reply #52 on: July 13, 2009, 02:49:55 AM »
We await the evidence with bated breath.  I cannot count the number of times people have requested photographic evidence from you, Tom.  All we have is your word alone.

Late edit:  Lets have those results with supporting photographic evidence, then

I don't have a telescopic camera mount for my model of telescope, or an appropriate camera, so there aren't any pictures.

But I'll share a detailed description of the results if you'd like.

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3 Tesla

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Re: Mr Bishop! Anyone! Help Please!
« Reply #53 on: July 13, 2009, 02:51:06 AM »
But I'll share a detailed description of the results if you'd like.

That would be nice, thanks.
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Mr Bishop! Anyone! Help Please!
« Reply #54 on: July 13, 2009, 02:53:18 AM »
But I'll share a detailed description of the results if you'd like.

That would be nice, thanks.

Here you go:

The earth is flat.

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frostee

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Re: Mr Bishop! Anyone! Help Please!
« Reply #55 on: July 13, 2009, 03:20:46 AM »
that was fail and further proof you are a troll
Recently religious due to the impending rapture.

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3 Tesla

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Re: Mr Bishop! Anyone! Help Please!
« Reply #56 on: July 13, 2009, 03:49:14 AM »
But I'll share a detailed description of the results if you'd like.

That would be nice, thanks.

Here you go:

The earth is flat.

Annoying person on internet forum offering a refreshing hot drink, we hear, and a sandwich? (5)

Edit: typo.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2009, 04:01:18 AM by 3 Tesla »
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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Moon squirter

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Re: Mr Bishop! Anyone! Help Please!
« Reply #57 on: July 13, 2009, 04:24:22 AM »
But I'll share a detailed description of the results if you'd like.

That would be nice, thanks.

Here you go:

The earth is flat.

Absolute pseudo-scientist.  You bring embarrassment and shame of the FES.

Buy a telescope camera-adaptor, show us the evidence from you "good telescope" and stop looking like a charlatan.
I haven't performed it and I've never claimed to. I've have trouble being in two places at the same time.

Re: Mr Bishop! Anyone! Help Please!
« Reply #58 on: July 13, 2009, 04:31:08 AM »
Late edit:  Lets have those results with supporting photographic evidence, then

Photographic evidence can be faked and is not accepted on this forum.

http://www.geocities.com/nasascam/


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markjo

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Re: Mr Bishop! Anyone! Help Please!
« Reply #59 on: July 13, 2009, 06:40:48 AM »
Late edit:  Lets have those results with supporting photographic evidence, then

Photographic evidence can be faked and is not accepted on this forum.

http://www.geocities.com/nasascam/

And yet photographs are accepted in courts of law in murder investigations all the time.  Odd, don't you think?
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