The problem with circumnavigation.

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The problem with circumnavigation.
« on: July 14, 2009, 08:46:22 PM »
Let's say you're in an airplane, and you fly around the world in the northern hemisphere, 30 degrees north of the equator, staying at 30 degrees the entire time. The FErs say that you actually turn your plane. Fine, that actually makes sense. You record the distance it takes to get back to the place you started. Now, you travel 30 degrees south of the equator, and fly around the world again, staying at 30 degrees from the equator again. Once again, you record the distance traveled. In the round earth model, the two distances are identical, 3607 miles. This has been tested, and the distances are the same. Using ancient formulae, it is possible to calculate the circumference of the earth from latitude, and it is possible using an airplane and using the stars. It is easy to find the results for these experiments online. For 30 degrees north and south, the results  are the same. Based on the FE, the two results should be much different. Take a simple look at the FE map to see what I mean (can't load images on my blackberry, sucky connection.) Explain that, FErs. The results should be different, but strangely aren't.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: The problem with circumnavigation.
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2009, 08:47:39 PM »
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It is easy to find the results for these experiments online.

Then perhaps you should show us the data instead of guessing which experiments might and might have not taken place.

Re: The problem with circumnavigation.
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2009, 09:43:41 PM »
Ancient philosophers performed these experiments, several thousands of years ago. These involved having a well.
Based on when the well had sun shining straight down into it, it is possible to tell when the sun is overhead. Simply do this at different places on the same latitude. The time zones show the exact same thing, when the sun is overhead.It's very simple. Based on the timezone of two points in the same latitude, it is possible to calculate distance. it is exactly the same way the philosophers did it, but they used different latitudes. For us today, this is much simpler, as we have timezones. We know when the sun is overhead.

EDIT: Sorry for the bad writing, I am horrible at it.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: The problem with circumnavigation.
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2009, 09:44:28 PM »
Then perhaps you should show us the data instead of guessing which experiments might and might have not taken place.

Re: The problem with circumnavigation.
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2009, 09:46:04 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_geodesy

There, you happy? Using the exact same formula, you can calculate circumference at altitude using timezones. Ever heard of Eratosthenes? He did this several thousand years ago.

EDIT: I believe his formula's right there. I'll post it anyway. You can modify it very easily.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2009, 09:49:23 PM by Pcoff »

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Tom Bishop

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Re: The problem with circumnavigation.
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2009, 09:49:09 PM »
So where's the data for the distance around the earth at 30 degrees South?

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There, you happy? Using the exact same formula, you can calculate circumference at altitude using timezones. Ever heard of Eratosthenes? He did this several thousand years ago.

Uh, Erathonese didn't sail around the world 30 degrees South of the equator.

His little stick experiment has been discussed on this forum many times. Eratosthenes assumed that the earth was a globe in his equations. The Flat Earth Society regularly uses data from Eratosthenes' experiment, under the assumption of a Flat Earth, to come up with figures for the Flat Earth model.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2009, 09:52:14 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: The problem with circumnavigation.
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2009, 09:53:30 PM »
http://home.online.no/~sigurdhu/Grid_1deg.htm

Oh, wait, you'll just discount that as a conspiracy. The formula used to determine these is based off of the ancient philosophers'. Oh, while we're at it, how do you explain that the angle of the sun is different at different locations on the earth?

EDIT: Yes, but how do you explain the sun coming at an angle? If the sun comes from straight above, as you claim, how does it shine at an angle? The only explanation that makes sense is that the world is curved.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2009, 09:55:32 PM by Pcoff »

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Tom Bishop

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Re: The problem with circumnavigation.
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2009, 09:55:06 PM »
Sorry, but no one measured those figures directly. They are calculated from a mathematical model of a sphere with a radius similar to the RE's. Read your link.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2009, 10:35:12 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: The problem with circumnavigation.
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2009, 09:57:13 PM »
I know. However, don't you think that formula would have been tested? In calculating flight paths, it is used all the time. If they were wrong, air travel would be extremely inefficient.

EDIT: Also, take a look at your map. (I won't post it to save space) Australia is horribly stretched. Our maps aren't calculated, they are measured. Could we be that wrong? Take a look at any photograph from a plane (can't think what they're called...). If the earth is flat, the image wouldn't be distorted at all, yet it looks nothing like your map. People actually use that map when driving. If everything is as horribly inaccurate as your map suggests, they would be hundreds of miles off when estimating distance. I'm laughing right now. The thought just struck me that I'm trying to explain to someone why the earth is round.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2009, 10:14:23 PM by Pcoff »

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Tom Bishop

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Re: The problem with circumnavigation.
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2009, 10:31:35 PM »
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I know. However, don't you think that formula would have been tested?

Who tested it and where's the data?

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If they were wrong, air travel would be extremely inefficient.

There aren't any flights which circumnavigate the earth south of the equator.

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Also, take a look at your map. (I won't post it to save space) Australia is horribly stretched.

The FE maps you're looking at weren't measured either. Someone just took a North Azimuthal projection of an RE map. They're for illustration purposes only to get an idea across.

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Our maps aren't calculated, they are measured. Could we be that wrong?

Yes. You are wrong until you have some evidence or data to support your contentions.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: The problem with circumnavigation.
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2009, 10:32:22 PM »
Also, take a look at your map. (I won't post it to save space) Australia is horribly stretched. Our maps aren't calculated, they are measured.

On your map, Greenland looks as big as South America.  Do you think that's an accurate reflection of reality?
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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utilitarianism

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Re: The problem with circumnavigation.
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2009, 10:46:13 PM »
nobody measured australia. they used models. either way, FET or RET, the measurements wil be the same.

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zork

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Re: The problem with circumnavigation.
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2009, 04:05:59 AM »
nobody measured australia. they used models. either way, FET or RET, the measurements wil be the same.
  Can't be. In FET you only measure the distances and you don't do anything to your results because you don't have to take account for the curvature of the earth. Int RET surveyors use triangulation networks and they correct their measurements with a curvature of the earth. There is definitely differences in drawn maps when someone uses triangulation networks and accounts for curvature and he gets different map if he doesn't.
Rowbotham had bad eyesight
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http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.

Re: The problem with circumnavigation.
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2009, 12:46:17 PM »
The problem is, I can't argue with you. All the science I could possibly use as an example is based on the fact that the earth is round. Anything that disproves the FET is written off as a conspiracy. Fine, you win on this one forum. Let me know when the FET is the mainstream idea. Also, there are projections of the earth where nothing is stretched at all. They are horrible looking, but they are completely accurate.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: The problem with circumnavigation.
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2009, 04:22:12 PM »
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The problem is, I can't argue with you.

So please leave then.

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asmkm22

Re: The problem with circumnavigation.
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2009, 07:16:56 PM »
Then perhaps you should show us the data instead of guessing which experiments might and might have not taken place.

Except that any data presented would be written off as invalid.