Infinite Infiniteness!

Quote from: Ragnarr on July 07, 2009, 04:25:40 PM

But when the sun is on the bottom half of antarctica, wouldn't the entire northern hemisphere (and most of the south except antarctica) be in darkness?  

Sure, but only for six hours.

So the entire northern hemisphere would be in darkness for 6 hours every day in Winter at the same time?

Also, for the first bit after the equinox (when the N. Hemisphere is experiencing autumn), when the sun is "below" antarctica, the very top portion of the north polenorthern  polar region would have to be receiving sunlight, whereas the bottom portion (the part closer to the sun) would be receiving none.

Quote from: Ragnarr on July 07, 2009, 04:25:40 PM

But when the sun is on the bottom half of antarctica, wouldn't the entire northern hemisphere (and most of the south except antarctica) be in darkness?  

That would depend how big the sun's spotlight is.

How about the arctic circle, during december solstice, the edge of the suns spotlight is always touching a part of the arctic circle during the 24 hour period (yes I know the solstice is not 24 hours long, but during that period it is very close to this line), yet the spotlight does not illuminate any area within the circle.  How does the sun manage to illuminate the top side of the arctic circle at all during this 24 hour period without light bending around the area inside the circle?

How about the arctic circle, during december solstice, the edge of the suns spotlight is always touching a part of the arctic circle during the 24 hour period (yes I know the solstice is not 24 hours long, but during that period it is very close to this line), yet the spotlight does not illuminate any area within the circle.  How does the sun manage to illuminate the top side of the arctic circle at all during this 24 hour period without light bending around the area inside the circle?

It doesn't. Much of the Arctic Circle is in perpetual darkness for six months out of the year. During the other six months it is in perpetual daylight. Vice versa for the Antarctic Circle.

You can learn more by watching "The Proposal" starring Sandra Bullock.

With the above diagram, the most northerly point in the lower orbit would necessitate constant darkness through the whole winter for all of the northern hemisphere not just the pole because that point is further south than the summer orbit's most southerly point.
Back to the drawing(literally) board?

With the above diagram, the most northerly point in the lower orbit would necessitate constant darkness through the whole winter for all of the northern hemisphere not just the pole because that point is further south than the summer orbit's most southerly point.

No it wouldn't.

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With the above diagram, the most northerly point in the lower orbit would necessitate constant darkness through the whole winter for all of the northern hemisphere not just the pole because that point is further south than the summer orbit's most southerly point.

No it wouldn't.

So when the Sun is further away in the southern hemisphere winter daytime than it is in the northern hemisphere summer nighttime, its light can still reach everywhere? Interesting.

So when the Sun is further away in the southern hemisphere winter daytime than it is in the northern hemisphere summer nighttime, its light can still reach everywhere? Interesting.

When the sun is in its Southern Solstice its light still touches much of the Northern Hemisphere. It's only the Arctic Circle which stays in perpetual darkness for six months out of the year.

Quote from: dyno on July 07, 2009, 10:46:14 PM

So when the Sun is further away in the southern hemisphere winter daytime than it is in the northern hemisphere summer nighttime, its light can still reach everywhere? Interesting.

When the sun is in its Southern Solstice its light still touches much of the Northern Hemisphere. It's only the Arctic Circle which stays in perpetual darkness for six months out of he year.

Except that in the diagram, the South American continent is further away from the sun than the artic circle and will necessesarily be in permanent darkness.

Except that in the diagram, the South American continent is further away from the sun than the artic circle and will necessesarily be in permanent darkness.

Not permanent darkness, no.

When the sun is in the Northern Hemisphere the days in the south are short and the days in the north are long.

When the sun is in the Southern Hemisphere the days in the north are short and the days in the south are long.

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Except that in the diagram, the South American continent is further away from the sun than the artic circle and will necessesarily be in permanent darkness.

Not permanent darkness, no.

When the sun is in the Northern Hemisphere the days in the south are short and the days in the north are long.

When the sun is in the Southern Hemisphere the days in the north are short and the days in the south are long.

Northern and Southern hemispheres are parts of a spherical earth. I thought the earth was flat.   

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Except that in the diagram, the South American continent is further away from the sun than the artic circle and will necessesarily be in permanent darkness.

Not permanent darkness, no.

When the sun is in the Northern Hemisphere the days in the south are short and the days in the north are long.

When the sun is in the Southern Hemisphere the days in the north are short and the days in the south are long.

well you have better change the diagram because as it stands it means light travels further depending on the season

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Except that in the diagram, the South American continent is further away from the sun than the artic circle and will necessesarily be in permanent darkness.

Not permanent darkness, no.

When the sun is in the Northern Hemisphere the days in the south are short and the days in the north are long.

When the sun is in the Southern Hemisphere the days in the north are short and the days in the south are long.

Tom Bishop agrees the earth is a sphere.

well you have better change the diagram because as it stands it means light travels further depending on the season

The diagram is fine.

Quote from: dyno on July 07, 2009, 11:40:35 PM

well you have better change the diagram because as it stands it means light travels further depending on the season

The diagram is fine.

The diagram is lovely.

The word "hemisphere" implies a spherical earth

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You have stated previously that the sun "switching gears" and orbiting around the southern geographic pole would explain the midnight sun in Antarctica.  However, if that were so, wouldn't the entire northern hemisphere be dark when the sun was below (relative to the map) the Antarctic continent?

Yes, the Northerm Hemisphere would be in darkness for half the day, like it is in reality.

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In addition, The sun's orbit around the north pole has been observed to gradually widen (observed to rotate closer to the horizon) until it eventually disappears below the horizon as the December solstice approaches.  How do you account for this observation with your switching gears theory?

Over the year the sun's path moves from the Tropic of Cancer to the Equator to the Tropic of Capricorn. Once the sun moves beyond the equator into the realm of the Southern Gear, it "goes with the flow" and starts to gradually rotate around Sigma Octantis (the South Pole Star).



The above diagram is just an approximation. I should have made the circles a little broader. The parent map also needs a bit of work.

But nonetheless, as we can see, when the sun is in the Northern Hemisphere the Southern Hemisphere receives less light and shorter days. When the sun is in the Southern Hemisphere the Southern Hemisphere receives longer days while the Northern Hemisphere receives shorter days. This is what causes the seasons.

This is a huge shift in Tom's thinking.

Twelve months ago he flatly denied that you got 24 hour direct sunlight in Antarctica (he said it was a lie perpetrated by "The Conspiracy"):

"It's possible that such extended daylight is caused by the sunlight touching the Ice Crystals over Antarctica. When the sun is in its southern annulus for six months out of the year its light touches the ice crystals in the upper southern polar strata which circles the earth along the Antarctic coast. The rays of the sun are displaced and reflected along that reflective path. The light is bounced in every direction like a house of mirrors, creating extended daylight all along the Antarctic coast."

http://theflatearthsociety.net/forum/index.php?topic=368.msg16122#msg16122

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You have stated previously that the sun "switching gears" and orbiting around the southern geographic pole would explain the midnight sun in Antarctica.  However, if that were so, wouldn't the entire northern hemisphere be dark when the sun was below (relative to the map) the Antarctic continent?

Yes, the Northerm Hemisphere would be in darkness for half the day, like it is in reality.

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In addition, The sun's orbit around the north pole has been observed to gradually widen (observed to rotate closer to the horizon) until it eventually disappears below the horizon as the December solstice approaches.  How do you account for this observation with your switching gears theory?

Over the year the sun's path moves from the Tropic of Cancer to the Equator to the Tropic of Capricorn. Once the sun moves beyond the equator into the realm of the Southern Gear, it "goes with the flow" and starts to gradually rotate around Sigma Octantis (the South Pole Star).



The above diagram is just an approximation. I should have made the circles a little broader. The parent map also needs a bit of work.

But nonetheless, as we can see, when the sun is in the Northern Hemisphere the Southern Hemisphere receives less light and shorter days. When the sun is in the Southern Hemisphere the Southern Hemisphere receives longer days while the Northern Hemisphere receives shorter days. This is what causes the seasons.

This diagram makes no sense.

Just look at California - it is slightly further away from the southern circle than the North Pole but in no way does California stay in perpetual darkness during the winter!

This is a huge shift in Tom's thinking.

Twelve months ago he flatly denied that you got 24 hour direct sunlight in Antarctica (he said it was a lie perpetrated by "The Conspiracy")

Anyone employed by the South Pole Station is working for the American Government. It's a government military base.

Just look at California - it is slightly further away from the southern circle than the North Pole but in no way does California stay in perpetual darkness during the winter!

Like I said, the parent map needs a bit of work.

Like I said, the parent map needs a bit of work.

A bit?

That looks like a map of a supposedly flat earth. Why did you use the word hemisphere? Are you confused?

If I had used the word "hemiplane," you would have been the one confused.

Stop posting.

If I has used the word "hemiplane," you would have been the confused one.

Stop posting.

No I wouldn't have been confused.

No.

Quote from: Tom Bishop on July 08, 2009, 01:36:57 AM

If I has used the word "hemiplane," you would have been the confused one.

Stop posting.

No I wouldn't have been confused.

No.

He's just trying to insult you in the hope that you will go away and stop punching holes in his theory.

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Just look at California - it is slightly further away from the southern circle than the North Pole but in no way does California stay in perpetual darkness during the winter!

Like I said, the parent map needs a bit of work.

Then please do that work ...

Because your map/theory does not work in its present format.

It is also completely contradictory with respect to the FAQ (which does not involve Sigma Octanis).

All that is known at present is that the coast of Antarctica stretches out into a seemingly perpetual  expanse of ice and snow.

This statement cannot be supported by Tom's new map ...

As Antarctica is now a distinct and finite island rather than an infinite, world-circling "Ice Wall".

Note how Tom has fundamentally changed his views on the (im)possibility Antarctic exploration:

Beyond the 150 foot Ice Wall is anyone's guess. How far the ice extends; how it terminates; and what exists beyond it, are questions to which no present human experience can reply. All we at present know is, that snow and hail, howling winds, and indescribable storms and hurricanes prevail; and that in every direction "human ingress is barred by unsealed escarpments of perpetual ice," extending farther than eye or telescope can penetrate, and becoming lost in gloom and darkness. Dr. Samuel Birley Rowbotham held that knowing the true dimensions of the Earth is something which will be forever be unknowable by man.

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Why do you discount Scott and Amundsen's testimonies - testimonies which describe two independent, long trips overland to the centre of Antarctica and the true Geographical South Pole - but believe the earlier testimony of Ross who said that Antarctic exploration was impossible?

What's not to believe? They went to an area under Sigma Octantis (the south pole star) and came back.

I would suggest that there is a very good reason he used the words:

They went to an area under Sigma Octantis (the south pole star) and came back.

. . . and I think you can guess what that is.

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How about the arctic circle, during december solstice, the edge of the suns spotlight is always touching a part of the arctic circle during the 24 hour period (yes I know the solstice is not 24 hours long, but during that period it is very close to this line), yet the spotlight does not illuminate any area within the circle.  How does the sun manage to illuminate the top side of the arctic circle at all during this 24 hour period without light bending around the area inside the circle?

It doesn't. Much of the Arctic Circle is in perpetual darkness for six months out of the year. During the other six months it is in perpetual daylight. Vice versa for the Antarctic Circle.

You can learn more by watching "The Proposal" starring Sandra Bullock.

beyond it sure, but not on it.  You do know what defines the arctic and antarctic circles right?

I would suggest that there is a very good reason he used the words:

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They went to an area under Sigma Octantis (the south pole star) and came back.

. . . and I think you can guess what that is.

You've got me there (I cannot guess) ...

Do tell!

(Besides, polar expeditions are always carried out during summer - when there is "Midnight Sun" - so there won't be any stars to navigate by - not sure if Tom appreciates that, though.)

In the past Tom has said this about "The Ice Wall":

Antarctica exists. It just does not exist as a continent.

But his new map clearly shows it as a distinct and finite continent.

You've got me there (I cannot guess) ...

Do tell!

By using the words "They went to an area under Sigma Octantis (the south pole star) and came back." he can deny at a later stage that he never said they went to Antarctica or that their expedition took them over the ice wall (for example).

He could suggest for example that the area under Sigma Octantis was an ice floe in the right area. Who can disprove it? The word obfuscation comes to mind but there might be a better one.

In the past Tom has said this about "The Ice Wall":

Quote from: Tom Bishop on November 17, 2007, 05:20:16 PM

Antarctica exists. It just does not exist as a continent.

But his new map clearly shows it as a distinct and finite continent.

The map is not Tom's, and I think he was simply using it to demondtrate a particular concept. I may be wrong, but I do not believe that Tom believes the earth is exactly as depicted in that map. Rather, I think he believes that the continents may be aligned in that way, within the rim continent (Antarctica).