why do you believe?

Because what I feel when I don't float off the earths surface is the same feeling that I get when I accelerate in my car. Einstein himself that gravity is interchangable with acceleration.  Apart from the fact that gravity is made up to explain why we don't fall off the earth if it's round; and acceleration is real.

Because what I feel when I don't float off the earths surface is the same feeling that I get when I accelerate in my car. Einstein himself that gravity is interchangable with acceleration.  Apart from the fact that gravity is made up to explain why we don't fall off the earth if it's round; and acceleration is real.

Of course you feel acceleration relative to the earth. That is true according to FET and RET. What is your point? The question is why do you think a universal accelerator is a more likely cause for this acceleration than gravity? The universal accelerator is made up to explain why we don't fall off the earth if it's flat.

Because what I feel when I don't float off the earths surface is the same feeling that I get when I accelerate in my car. Einstein himself that gravity is interchangable with acceleration.  Apart from the fact that gravity is made up to explain why we don't fall off the earth if it's round; and acceleration is real.

The exact true nature of gravity, matter, energy and the wider universe will never be fully explained.  That is what real science is all about: There's always something new to be discovered beyond our current understanding.

The allusiveness of gravityation does not imply (nor is evidence for) a flat earth.

I believe because it is what my eyes tell me to believe.  Now you will say "But RE predicts that the Earth will appear flat too!  You can't always trust your eyes!" with which I partially agree.  So when sufficient evidence is presented to me that my eyes are in fact deceiving me in this matter I will become a REer for life.  But after a great deal of time on this forum, having REers daily attempt to prove their ridiculous hypothesis in every conceivable way, I have yet to see that evidence.  So I have no reason to believe my eyes are deceiving me, and continue to resist the bias that has turned many an otherwise reasonable and intelligent soul into a raving unwitting conspiracy agent insisting that the Earth is round on a web forum dedicated to FE ideals for no reason, I can imagine, other than the desire to be an instigator.  The Conspiracy has trained you all well.

The terrible thing is, I was once one of you.  I too came to this forum sure that the Earth was round with no concrete reason for it.  It wasn't until I spent some time here that I saw the light of truth for what it was, saw how ridiculous and (frankly) sad it is to cling to such an unreasonable notion for no other reason than that that's what NASA, my teachers, my parents, the government, etc have always told me.  I understand the desire to be led; after all, why think for yourself when you can have people in authority think for you?  Life's easier that way, huh?  But just the same it is my sincere hope that given time you, too, will come to the correct conclusions; however, my faith in humanity isn't strong enough for me to truly expect it of you.  So continue living in miserable ignorance and enjoy making fun of those clearly far more enlightened than you.

I believe because it is what my eyes tell me to believe.  Now you will say "But RE predicts that the Earth will appear flat too!  You can't always trust your eyes!" with which I partially agree.  So when sufficient evidence is presented to me that my eyes are in fact deceiving me in this matter I will become a REer for life.  

I witnessed the sinking ship effect recently. I believed what my eyes tell me to believe and concluded that the earth is round. So when sufficient evidence is presented to me that some other phenomenom is causing this effect I will become a FEr for life.

Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on June 01, 2009, 02:14:03 PM

I believe because it is what my eyes tell me to believe.  Now you will say "But RE predicts that the Earth will appear flat too!  You can't always trust your eyes!" with which I partially agree.  So when sufficient evidence is presented to me that my eyes are in fact deceiving me in this matter I will become a REer for life.  

I witnessed the sinking ship effect recently. I believed what my eyes tell me to believe and concluded that the earth is round. So when sufficient evidence is presented to me that some other phenomenom is causing this effect I will become a FEr for life.

Hey, it's your prerogative to automatically come to the conclusion that the reason a ship appears to disappear over the flat horizon is that the Earth is round.  That's where your indoctrination has led you.  I will continue believing the far more reasonable alternative that the surface is every bit as flat as it appears and the light itself is bending.

To me it seems much more logical to explain something with a phenomena (acceleration) that is not made up; even though the theory behind it may, still, just be a theory. It also perfectly explains the effect that is present, just as gravity appears to. With all the evidence I have read on this site, I believe that the earth is flat; it's not necessarily the incompetence of "gravity" which has swayed me towards becoming a FEer, it was just the first thing that made me start to doubt the consensus that the earth was round.

Quote from: Rogherio on June 01, 2009, 12:56:26 PM

Because what I feel when I don't float off the earths surface is the same feeling that I get when I accelerate in my car. Einstein himself that gravity is interchangable with acceleration.  Apart from the fact that gravity is made up to explain why we don't fall off the earth if it's round; and acceleration is real.

The exact true nature of gravity, matter, energy and the wider universe will never be fully explained.  That is what real science is all about: There's always something new to be discovered beyond our current understanding.

The allusiveness of gravityation does not imply (nor is evidence for) a flat earth.

Therefore it is also not evidence by which you can disprove the flat earth either.

Quote from: Sir_Drainsalot on June 01, 2009, 02:33:06 PM

Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on June 01, 2009, 02:14:03 PM

I believe because it is what my eyes tell me to believe.  Now you will say "But RE predicts that the Earth will appear flat too!  You can't always trust your eyes!" with which I partially agree.  So when sufficient evidence is presented to me that my eyes are in fact deceiving me in this matter I will become a REer for life.  

I witnessed the sinking ship effect recently. I believed what my eyes tell me to believe and concluded that the earth is round. So when sufficient evidence is presented to me that some other phenomenom is causing this effect I will become a FEr for life.

Hey, it's your prerogative to automatically come to the conclusion that the reason a ship appears to disappear over the flat horizon is that the Earth is round.  That's where your indoctrination has led you.  I will continue believing the far more reasonable alternative that the surface is every bit as flat as it appears and the light itself is bending.

And your indoctrination has led you to believe that the only explanation is bendy light, rather than, say the far more reasonable conclusion that the earth is curved. See where Im going with this? Both of us are convinced that our explanations are the correct ones. You have set yourself up in an unattackable position. The earth appears flat, therefore it is flat. Any observations to the contrary are indoctrination or can be explained away by some mechanism or the other.

I'm pretty sure that's the stance of most REers on this forum as well though I'm afraid. Just we know we're correct.

I'm pretty sure that's the stance of most REers on this forum as well though I'm afraid. Just we know we're correct.

Im not denying that in the slightest. I admit right here and now that its possible that light does bend and produce the sinking ship effect. But you must also admit that its possible that light doesnt bend and the earth is in fact round.

Quote from: Rogherio on June 01, 2009, 02:54:58 PM

I'm pretty sure that's the stance of most REers on this forum as well though I'm afraid. Just we know we're correct.

Im not denying that in the slightest. I admit right here and now that its possible that light does bend and produce the sinking ship effect. But you must also admit that its possible that light doesnt bend and the earth is in fact round.

Right, and until I see sufficient evidence that this is the case I will continue believing that the Earth is as it appears.

Quote from: Sir_Drainsalot on June 01, 2009, 02:59:13 PM

Quote from: Rogherio on June 01, 2009, 02:54:58 PM

I'm pretty sure that's the stance of most REers on this forum as well though I'm afraid. Just we know we're correct.

Im not denying that in the slightest. I admit right here and now that its possible that light does bend and produce the sinking ship effect. But you must also admit that its possible that light doesnt bend and the earth is in fact round.

Right, and until I see sufficient evidence that this is the case I will continue believing that the Earth is as it appears.

And until I see sufficient evidence that light does bend I will continue to believe that the earth is as it appears to me.

So, back to square one. Next round. You begin by accusing me that I have been indoctrinated.

Carry on.

edit: Stupid mistake.

Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on June 01, 2009, 03:00:30 PM

Quote from: Sir_Drainsalot on June 01, 2009, 02:59:13 PM

Quote from: Rogherio on June 01, 2009, 02:54:58 PM

I'm pretty sure that's the stance of most REers on this forum as well though I'm afraid. Just we know we're correct.

Im not denying that in the slightest. I admit right here and now that its possible that light does bend and produce the sinking ship effect. But you must also admit that its possible that light doesnt bend and the earth is in fact round.

Right, and until I see sufficient evidence that this is the case I will continue believing that the Earth is as it appears.

And until I see sufficient evidence that light doesnt bend I will continue to believe that the earth is as it appears to me.

So, back to square one. Next round. You begin by accusing me that I have been indoctrinated.

Carry on.

To what purpose?  You're entitled to your opinion.  I guess my point is the shape of the Earth is really subjective.  It's based entirely on how you perceive the evidence.  Unless there's reason to be 100% sure the Earth is round, there's no reason for me to not go with my senses and assume it's actually flat.  So that's my stance.

Like many long-standing arguments this one seems to come down to an argument of what one considers valid evidence...

To what purpose?  You're entitled to your opinion.  I guess my point is the shape of the Earth is really subjective.  It's based entirely on how you perceive the evidence.  Unless there's reason to be 100% sure the Earth is round, there's no reason for me to not go with my senses and assume it's actually flat.  So that's my stance.

Like many long-standing arguments this one seems to come down to an argument of what one considers valid evidence...

Even I am not 100% sure that the earth is round. I think its pretty damn unlikely that NASA is lying, but, they could be. I admit that before I came to this site I never, ever questioned what I was told regarding the shape of the earth. It was just a classic ad populum fallacy with some pretty pictures, and I swallowed it down. This site made me actually pay attention to what I can observe. My own observations led me to the conclusion that the earth is round, so thats my stance. Youre right though, its all about how one interprets the evidence. I cant know for sure that the earth is definitely round, its just my opinion.

It's amazing what the concept of a Flat earth can do to your out look on life. Ever since I set foot/eyes/ears upon the nature of this site I've never really been able to look at evidence (and the world) in the same way.

Mainly because I now conceive it to be flat instead of a sphere!

Mainly because I now conceive it to be flat instead of a sphere!

Hallelujah! 

It's pretty cool when you realise that the Earth is falling upwards and change your worldview accordingly. Our natural language is very misleading in this respect, and I often feel like wincing when I have to refer to something "falling" to the ground in conversation.

There's a lot of those, like "hemisphere" or using the term globe as a synonym for the Earth.  When it's built into our language the way it has been it takes an act of will to even consider rejecting it.

There's a lot of those, like "hemisphere" or using the term globe as a synonym for the Earth.  When it's built into our language the way it has been it takes an act of will to even consider rejecting it.

Then again, the earth is a planet 

There's a lot of those, like "hemisphere" or using the term globe as a synonym for the Earth.  When it's built into our language the way it has been it takes an act of will to even consider rejecting it.

Yeah, I always use inner/outer hemiplane, atmolayer, etc. Most people don't bat an eyelid when you use the word 'atmolayer' in everyday conversation.

Im not denying that in the slightest. I admit right here and now that its possible that light does bend and produce the sinking ship effect. But you must also admit that its possible that light doesnt bend and the earth is in fact round.

Light does bend, but it doesn't produce a shinking ship effect. A superior mirage can actually allow you to see over the horizon, and sometimes things appear to float over the horizon. We know light doesn't always travel straight. I see highway mirages all the time in the middle of summer. This is how Rowbotham's experiments probably worked at the time, and can be replicated with the correct conditions.

To me it seems much more logical to explain something with a phenomena (acceleration) that is not made up; even though the theory behind it may, still, just be a theory. It also perfectly explains the effect that is present, just as gravity appears to. With all the evidence I have read on this site, I believe that the earth is flat; it's not necessarily the incompetence of "gravity" which has swayed me towards becoming a FEer, it was just the first thing that made me start to doubt the consensus that the earth was round.

Acceleration isn't an alternative to gravitation. In fact acceleration can be caused by gravitation. The question is what causes our acceleration relative to earth when our feet are not on the ground? Is it because objects with mass attract each other (gravitation), or is there some mysterious force accelerating the earth (universal acceleration)? Acceleration isn't made up, but the force which causes the earth to accelerate in FET is. How is that more plausible than gravity?

It is good to be skeptical of universally accepted ideas such as a round earth, but you still have to consider all possibilities objectively. Neither theory is perfect, but you need to look at the probability for each theory to be true. The necessity of the elaborate conspiracy to make FET possible certainly gives RET the advantage. Logically, FET would need some very strong evidence to make it the more likely theory.

Tell me, why cant I see the sun at night? Since according to your theory, the earth is flat and therefore both the moon and sun should be viewable 24/7. Also, could you explain me; How comes that during summertime, the sun wont set for 73 days in row in the northern Finland? And also explain me why the Aurora Borealis ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurora_borealis )appear? I have seen the Aurora Borealis in real aswell, not only through TV's or whatsoever.

Tell me, why cant I see the sun at night? Since according to your theory, the earth is flat and therefore both the moon and sun should be viewable 24/7. Also, could you explain me; How comes that during summertime, the sun wont set for 73 days in row in the northern Finland? And also explain me why the Aurora Borealis ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurora_borealis )appear? I have seen the Aurora Borealis in real aswell, not only through TV's or whatsoever.

Please don't hijack my thread.

Oh sorry I'll make a separated thread then.

Hi guys! I'm new here...in all honesty, I really did not have any idea that people still adhere to this theory. Primarily because of what is taught to us in school. I am not closing my mind to such theories (because anything new and can trigger new discussions) in fact I find it interesting. I'm looking forward to learning new stuff here...

I believe because it is what my eyes tell me to believe.  Now you will say "But RE predicts that the Earth will appear flat too!  You can't always trust your eyes!" with which I partially agree.  So when sufficient evidence is presented to me that my eyes are in fact deceiving me in this matter I will become a REer for life.  But after a great deal of time on this forum, having REers daily attempt to prove their ridiculous hypothesis in every conceivable way, I have yet to see that evidence.  So I have no reason to believe my eyes are deceiving me, and continue to resist the bias that has turned many an otherwise reasonable and intelligent soul into a raving unwitting conspiracy agent insisting that the Earth is round on a web forum dedicated to FE ideals for no reason, I can imagine, other than the desire to be an instigator.  The Conspiracy has trained you all well.

The terrible thing is, I was once one of you.  I too came to this forum sure that the Earth was round with no concrete reason for it.  It wasn't until I spent some time here that I saw the light of truth for what it was, saw how ridiculous and (frankly) sad it is to cling to such an unreasonable notion for no other reason than that that's what NASA, my teachers, my parents, the government, etc have always told me.  I understand the desire to be led; after all, why think for yourself when you can have people in authority think for you?  Life's easier that way, huh?  But just the same it is my sincere hope that given time you, too, will come to the correct conclusions; however, my faith in humanity isn't strong enough for me to truly expect it of you.  So continue living in miserable ignorance and enjoy making fun of those clearly far more enlightened than you.

I've just read your interesting reply.  You have made many points, so I will try to address each point in turn:

I believe because it is what my eyes tell me to believe.  Now you will say "But RE predicts that the Earth will appear flat too!  You can't always trust your eyes!" with which I partially agree.  So when sufficient evidence is presented to me that my eyes are in fact deceiving me in this matter I will become a REer for life.

The point here is that you (and other FEers) have used the earth's appearance at ground level as "evidence" of a FE, which (in evidential terms) does not stand up to scrutiny.  This is not a good starting point for a hypothesis (that the flat earth causes the horizon to be straight).

But after a great deal of time on this forum, having REers daily attempt to prove their ridiculous hypothesis in every conceivable way. I have yet to see that evidence.

I take it by "prove ... in every conceivable way", you are referring to evidence that contracts the hypothesis that the earth is a plane?  Watch the sun set.  Watch the stars track across the sky.  Did you ever see an elliptical "star trail" photograph?  If you don't want people you question your beliefs, then you need religion, which is protected by law.

So I have no reason to believe my eyes are deceiving me, and continue to resist the bias that has turned many an otherwise reasonable and intelligent soul into a raving unwitting conspiracy agent insisting that the Earth is round on a web forum dedicated to FE ideals for no reason, I can imagine, other than the desire to be an instigator.  The Conspiracy has trained you all well.

Your eyes are fine. Your brain is deceiving you, because it cannot comprehend that the horizon is not a reliable indicator for the shape of the earth.  Much better to look at the heavens.

All I (and others) are doing is reviewing your "evidence" for a flat earth.  Using expressions such as "Conspiracy has trained you all well" lack any substance and imply you are taking this rather personally (one of the signs of a pseudoscience).

The terrible thing is, I was once one of you.  I too came to this forum sure that the Earth was round with no concrete reason for it.  It wasn't until I spent some time here that I saw the light of truth for what it was, saw how ridiculous and (frankly) sad it is to cling to such an unreasonable notion for no other reason than that that's what NASA, my teachers, my parents, the government, etc have always told me.  I understand the desire to be led; after all, why think for yourself when you can have people in authority think for you?  Life's easier that way, huh?  But just the same it is my sincere hope that given time you, too, will come to the correct conclusions; however, my faith in humanity isn't strong enough for me to truly expect it of you.  So continue living in miserable ignorance and enjoy making fun of those clearly far more enlightened than you.

This is more personal stuff.  You clearly have issues that are outside the bounds of scientific debate.  I am not making fun of you people (well may be Tom occasionally), but if you cannot defend your cause without getting in to personal rants about "living in miserable ignorance", then I guess we must agree to differ.  

Please try to look at evidence in a "cold" way and resist the temptation to use gut instinct ("what my eyes tell me to believe").  It has been the downfall of many.

Hi guys! I'm new here...in all honesty, I really did not have any idea that people still adhere to this theory. Primarily because of what is taught to us in school. I am not closing my mind to such theories (because anything new and can trigger new discussions) in fact I find it interesting. I'm looking forward to learning new stuff here...

Great! Welcome to the forums. Sounds like you have just the right attitude.

Just about the right attitude to let yourself get brainwashed by the FE theorsists bullcrap theories that are based on nothing else but failed expreiments from the 1800's and personal experience.

Tip: Do not let the friendly looking attitude of the FE theorists lure you into the FE world.

And I do not mean to offend anyone, just stating the facts as I see them.

Annnddd also, welcome aboard.

HAHAHA